Why is opus not more widespread as an audio format? Video and image format standards change overtime, but MP3 is still the dominant audio format despite being incredibly outdated and inferior for years now.
because normies
>>52998125
>muh normies ;_;
For the same reason we use Xorg, the same reason we use unix, and etc.
Because MP3 is here.
>>52998125
Normies don't push formats though, they just consume them. With streaming and digital downloads of music as big as it is now, wouldn't it be in the provider's best interest to use a lossy format that has significantly better filesize for the same if not better audio quality?
Google Play Music for example uses MP3 320, not even V0. Even if you upload a file that is MP3 V0, Ogg Vorbis, or Ogg Opus, it will convert it to MP3 320.
>>52998125
this
fucking normies are the bane of technical progress
>>52998268
I would imagine they do that for compatibility, basically every device can play MP3 320, it may be a better business move to suck up the increased bandwidth and storage costs rather than have normies clogging up help lines, complaining to each other than their google music doesn't work on their 10 year old mp3 player.
>>52998268
>Even if you upload a file that is MP3 V0, Ogg Vorbis, or Ogg Opus, it will convert it to MP3 320.
wait what the fuck why
god damn google
>>52998412
See, I'd believe this if it weren't for the fact that the two largest legal music download services don't also manufacture and develop the devices and operating systems that their music plays on.
Google and Apple push the standards, if they changed their file formats to opus and added opus support to Google Play Music/whatever iPhones play music on then it would become the standard very quickly.
>>52998420
Right? I don't get it either. I understand converting from FLAC to MP3 320, but why from smaller formats to a larger one?
>>52998479
>opus support to Google Play Music
that's the only thing stopping me from going full streaming pleb
>>52998761
It's funny because Spotify, last I checked, uses vorbis for that specific reason. More efficient.
Opus was designed with mobile in mind, but the mobile manufacturers are instead pushing ancient formats designed for desktops.
Does subsonic support opus?
>>52998479
>>52998420
>converted to the same bitrate (quality) .mp3 files
https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/1100462?hl=en-GB
even still, it's stupid to transcode, but the hope is that you're uploading your files as lossless or 320 at the very least.
Spotify uses ogg vorbis, idk why Google wouldn't.
>>52998969
This must have changed unless I'm just being an idiot and remembering wrong, latter is more likely.
Still dumb, and I still stand by my statement that opus should be pushed as the new audio format.
>>52998268
>Google Play Music for example uses MP3 320, not even V0. Even if you upload a file that is MP3 V0, Ogg Vorbis, or Ogg Opus, it will convert it to MP3 320.
>Forcing shitty licensed non-free old as shit and has horrendous size:quality ratio
Absolutely fucking disgusting.
>>52999052
>not Drake.opus.ogg.flac.sh.png
I started getting only flac and converting them to opus myself, so before I delete the flac copy I just upload it to google music so it can be converted to 320k mp3.
Only have to worry about support on mobile shit.
>>52999168
I don't know about you, but I keep all my FLAC/ALAC collections on my PC and all my mobile stuff is just 320 anyway.
>>52999223
I like having it all converted because efficient technology gives me a stiffy. I check and tag everything when I download it and that's when I upload it to GM and convert it to opus. Plus since opus takes less space it's faster to transfer to other storage.
Was trying to convert my whole library eventually. It's too much work though and my laziness is getting in the way of the ocd.
>>52999347
Basically this. FLAC in my archive, but converted to opus for use on mobile and wherever.
>>52998262
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPuiNMtC3Zg
Just that you know, I have opus’d this mix into a 55 MB file with an excellent sound quality.
The Luv(sic) mp3 I downloaded is about the same size for half the length and mediocre quality.
Some random animu music gave by a dawg because Beat Hazard is 8 MB big for 3 fucking minutes.
The Terraria soundtrack I torrented is 3 MB per minute.
In a word, every MP3 I own is either over a MB per minute or low quality (and when I say that, I have the same ears as you, no spergdiophile artifact detectors embedded).
MP3 is downright obsolete. Get over it.
>>52999483
If anyone wants to make the comparison themselves, here's the exact same song in MP3 320kbps and opus 128kbps VBR.
Compare the quality and filesize.
https://a.uguu.se/unjwiq_02.BlackSkinhead.opus
https://a.uguu.se/zbaabn_KanyeWest-BlackSkinhead.mp3
I have DT 770s with a Schiit AMP/DAC and I can't hear a god damn difference.
>>52999052
>transcoding lossy formats
goddamnit google
>>52999424
Same here, got my FLACs on the external HDD and 128kbps Opus vbr on everything else.
128 vbr Opus is based.
>>52998268
>Google Play Music for example uses MP3 320
last time i checked it used MP3 128 (CBR)
>>52999625
You're probably right, my info on how Google Play does shit is apparently mostly false. MP3 128 is even worse though.
They do convert FLAC files to MP3 320 when you upload though, so they probably just use a range of MP3 bitrates.
Ok, I've got a lot of mp3 in 320. Can I convert to opus without k posing quality?
>>52999625
>>52999661
I don't know what they stream at, but this mp3 is bought and downloaded from Google Play music. It's MP3 320kbps and 22mb.
>>52999687
When you are converting lossy to lossy you will lose quality, but whether or not it's an amount you can even notice is a different story.
Convert a few songs from MP3 320 to opus 128 VBR and then see for yourself.
Generall though you'll want to be converting from FLAC to a lossy format.
>>52999739
>opus 128
>>52999760
>hurr durr I don't know what a variable bitrate is
>>52999781
those aren't transparent
>>52999786
have you ever used OPUS before?
>>52999786
If you really want transparent just set the bitrate to 256 when you convert. 128 opus is very close to transparent however.
>>52999831
That's what I do use.
>>52999786
These aren't mp3 files, anon.
>>52999854
Nice, I personally prefer 128 and don't hear the difference so the smaller filesize is appreciated.
>>52997890
For the same reason 1366x768 still exists. I saw a TV with that resolution the other day.
>>52999625
Free and purchased music from the play store is 320 kb mp3.
You can stream in 3 bitrates (when using mobile data) you can chose in settings if you subscribe to google music.
>>52999886
I was testing with flac to 128 opus vs flac to 256, and the file size difference isn't substantial enough to not go the safe route. I don't think it's worth going lower when you don't gain very much.
>>52999896
Next time you make a post like this please put it in a pastebin and link it with a trigger warning.
The only downside of opus: it resamples the audio up to the next 16kHz multiple.
>>52999910
YMMV from song to song, but both of these opus files were converted from the same FLAC using foobar. The difference is enough for me to justify using 128, since it's primarily for mobile.
But there is no wrong choice.
>>52997890
There haven't really been any huge leaps in terms of compressed audio quality compared to what we've seen in video. Other codecs are much more space-efficient, but MP3 is ubiquitous and people don't care and/or don't know about it (because they don't care to research). File size is also less "visible" than audio quality. If something were obviously shit, you'd be more inclined to find a better alternative, but benefits in terms of file size aren't so readily apparent.
Audio has basically reached a point where it's "good enough" in general. A good amp and some good speakers from 30 years ago are still going to be good today if they're maintained and in the proper shape. A CD still sounds great today. Video on a DVD is a disgusting shitpile compared to BR or other HD sources, so the need and most importantly the benefits of better codecs are easily apparent.
>>52997890
>that file size
hnnnnnnnnnnnnng
>>52999910
Why don't you just 192
>>53000290
Kanye West - The Life of Pablo (MP3 320)
vs.
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy (opus 128 vbr), Kanye West - Yeezus (opus 128 vbr), & Kanye West - The Life of Pablo (opus 128 vbr)
>>52998837
>Opus was designed with mobile in mind, but the mobile manufacturers are instead pushing ancient formats designed for desktops.
Even fucking Android and Firefox support Opus.
Why do tech manufacturers have to push back tech progress?
>>53000435
Android 5.0+ only supports opus within an .mkv container. :^)
>>53000496
My phone plays plain opus just fine on 4.3
>>53000265
Pretty much this.
Most people won't be able to ABX between 192 MP3 and FLAC with their current equipment. And Apple uses 256 AAC for iTunes. Streaming services are similar.
Honestly the only faggots still using crappy MP3s with actual discernible differences, are those who pirate them the wrong way by googling probably transcoded mp3 files, most services have moved on
>>53000496
https://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/MediaFormat.html#MIMETYPE_AUDIO_OPUS
So, is there really any advantage to using something like Google Music over your own Subsonic server (or equivalent)? You don't have to upload your music somewhere and you have full control over the transcoding process.
I'm currently using Vorbis for mobile, haven't tried Opus yet, so I'm not sure whether any of the Android apps support it, but at least server side I can't see why it would be an issue.
>>53000531
The subsonic app is absolute cancer, that's why
>>53000523
https://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/media-formats.html
>>53000555
There are alternatives, the actual Subsonic app is buggy shit though, yeah. What are you missing in say, Ultrasonic? Picking an album and having it play flawlessly from my large collection with no other effort is pretty much good enough for me.
>>53000531
Hard drive failures and shit.
It's always on two places at once.
If the hard drive fails chances are at least Play Music will still be up so I can quickly redownload and transfer to another drive.
If Play Music goes to the shitter chances are my hard drive will not have failed at the same time, so I can quickly find another place to host it on
>>53000606
So then you have all the data you care about backed up on some random company's property?
I'd rather back my own shit up.
>>53000606
What if Ted Cruz is right an North Korea EMP bombs all of the United States?
>>53000634
Best way to back it up for as cheap as possible without online services?
>>53000651
then we're fucked anyway
>>53000395
>>53000290
Here's an example with multiple formats by using Undermeme's album. They were converted from the FLAC source with the following settings:
>MP3 - V0
>AAC - 150kbps
>Opus - 128kbps
All of which should be at transparency levels for all formats.
>>53000780
Opus standard fucking when.
>>52997890
Because it's not a general audio format?
It's designed for voice audio with minimal overhead.
It's pretty popular in the current gen transmitter world.
Think wireless studio mics etc.
You can use it for general audio, but you need comparatively a high bitrate, 160-192kbit would be the lower threshold for music and you will have issues like no native support for 44.1khz without resampling etc.
>>53001027
Oh forgot to mention the hardcap at 20khz, anything above that is discarded.
Not to say it's not the right thing to do, but for audiophiles you lose a lot of harmonics.
>>53001027
http://www.gatesair.com/products/transport/audio-contribution-distribution/intraplex-ip-link
>Main Features of Intraplex® IP Link
>Linear, AAC-LC, Opus and G.722 audio coding
Android 6.0+ actually removed native opus support.
>>53001143
Exactly, Opus excels in that area, but they made the mistake of pushing it as some sort of general codec.
FLAC/Vorbis is a better pair for general audio.
Does opus = OGG
and Vorbis = FLAC?
I have all 3. Problem is I don't know where to get good OGGs from.
.....It's in private trackers aren't they?
>>53001516
ogg is a general container for audio/video/etc.
opus is an audio codec
vorbis is an audio codec
flac is an audio codec
In example you can have FLAC stored in a ogg container, or you can use the build in native container.
>>53000993
It's already a standard - RFC 6716.
>>53001356
>>53001027
Umm, it is a general codec. It actually has two internal coders, one for speech and one for music (or really high bitrate speech). It outperforms Vorbis on hydrogenaudio's listening tests.
>>53001786
It extends to high fidelity, but most def is not one.
Hard capping at 20Khz? No 44.1Khz native support.
All streams are converted to 48Khz internally?
CELT is the key here, it was an slapped on feature that didn't get nearly as much focus then SILK.
Both have focus on low latency and designing codecs is a trade off.
Opus has 3 modes, one is pure CELT, that's the general part.
CELT is still not at the same level as AAC.
And we are talking about codecs that excel in the 64kbit range.
Fuck, I find this pretty fucking obvious.
It's nice that CELT works for most, but it's still a ultra low latency audio codec.
What I'm trying to say, is that Opus is for transmitting, not archiving nor the best lossy codec out there for general music.
Wait, so how do I get Android to play a .opus file?
All the music players that supposedly support it don't actually seem to. They don't pick up the file.
Should I be encoding my opus files as .ogg or something?
>>53002758
That's how I got my files to work.
>>53002758
wut
gonemad, aimp, neutron, poweramp alpha all support opus
>>53003017
That's what everyone says, but they don't detect any of my files.
>>53003032
I've been an avid Opus user for over a year now and GoneMAD detects all my opus music without any problems.
If you're using PowerAmp, remember that only the latest PowerAmp alpha supports Opus. The regular one on the PlayStore does not.
>>53003349
>PowerAmp alpha supports Opus
Is the seekbar bugged when playing opus files or it is just me?
It brings the volume down when tapping on it.
>>53003449
No idea, I don't use Poweramp anymore since I changed to GoneMAD when starting with the Opus change. It is alpha software, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was bugged in Poweramp.
>>53002150
u wot m8? CELT was developed for quite a long time before being combined with SILK. See the old demo pages: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/celt/demo.html
What's the issue with hard cap at 20khz? You want music for whales? Also, the listening tests disagree with you.
>>52999014
But they do. Chrome uses Opus on Youtube.
