eh it really depends on how many people cling on windows versions prior to 10.

apple went full jew and forked vulkan for their own closed source version, metal. so no help from the apple camp.

linux is sorta irrelevant unless valve can really push their steam machines into the hands of console players.

microsoft is really going full jew trying to force users blind folded kicking and screaming to windows 10 botnet edition.

if users cling on tightly and handle microsoft's brutal anal rape for not switching to 10 vulkan can really gain some traction and take off.

>>52503619
Linux will never succeed on the desktop with better software installation and less reliance on command line.

>>52503926

But Synaptic Package Manager and Steam exist.

That's enough to get the /v/ crowd in the door

>>52503856
What this anon said, the people can pull a nasty move on Micro and soft and stick to the earlier versions and have DX12 lose adoption rates which will make micro and softs attempts fire back very ugly on them. Crossed fingers, jk gaymer kids and normies will always have microshafts back

Nah. It'll be used as a niche API like OpenGL.
Why?
Microsoft pays developers to use DX because it boosts usage of windows.
For DX12 especially they're keen on getting people suckered into the win 10 trap.

>>52503619
I, for one, accept our new dx12 overlords

>>52504152
>trap
>better os for free that's faster, more secure, and the most user friendly windows yet
>trap
Worst meme on /g/ by far
If you think windows 7 is any better you're retarded

>>52503976
Bullshit. Installation of nearly anything is hard as fuck for a normal on a Linux system. I've seen bitches break down into tears begging me to put Windows on their machines because of the difficulty of installing software they downloaded from the web.

This is why normals stay the fuck away.

Of course when I say this some jackass come back with 'its not the fault of Linux if they can't learn the software'. And that's bullshit. Why should anyone have to learn special bullshit when on windows or OSX a few mouse clicks and you done? They shouldn't be subjected to bullshit like that.

Better software installation and less fucking command line. Normals cannot handle this shit no matter how much you want them too. Stop trying to force them to do shit YOUR WAY.

>>52504376
Pajeet here is your 0.002 cents
Now remember to poo in loo

>>52504500
>talking out of your ass
You have a package manager, which is way better that having to fetch shit from the internet.
And you do not need toe command line to install stuff through a package manager.
Just because it's different from what you are used to doesn't mean it's shit. You're just retarded.

>>52504531
I use ubuntu gnome you mongoloid. Windows 10 is just better no matter how hard you meme

>>52503619
It is a fail because only the newest hardware will support it. Why would I bother with it when it is easier to create a compatibility layer of OpenGL 2.1 & 4.4? Because you know Vulkan API has zero relation with OpenGL functions, therefore harder to support old hardware, lots of code monkey job.

>>52504700
>Why would I bother with it when it is easier to create a compatibility layer of OpenGL 2.1 & 4.4?
Because you want performance without tons of retarded bloat and 20 year old API antipatterns you have to work around everywhere?

OpenGL _can_ be quite fast but when you start mixing advanced features like persistent mapped buffer objects, synchronization and instancing there's like 1 implementation that is somewhat likely to work and even it has compatibility bugs.

>>52503999
>Micro and soft
You fucking autist.

>>52504152
>directx
>works on microsoft platforms
>opengl
>a renderer exists on literally every fucking platform

"niche"

>>52478425
Normal people seem to have no issue using app stores on iOS & Android. Using a package manager or an app store like Steam is basically the same.

>>52504500
you nearly got it right but you're a little off
>>52504556
it doesnt matter that the package managers are easy for us to use.

The reason normies arent going to switch to linux is because its something new to learn, often us tech enthusiasts really take for granted the skills we have that enable us to distro hop and fuck around with weird fringe tech.

People are used to downloading an .exe, clicking it, and it installs, even if using a package manager is easy, its a new system to learn, and they dont want to.

Windows already works fine for them, why learn something else?
Same reason people sometimes never get a manual car license, auto works, they dont need a manual, it doesnt matter if its more fun or can be quicker, they dont need/want it.

>>52505084
Yeah, in what situation is OpenGL used that isn't "I can't use DX"

>>52505297
>People are used to downloading an .exe, clicking it, and it installs, even if using a package manager is easy, its a new system to learn, and they dont want to.
Do geriatric oldfags count now? Younger people, including the so-called "digital natives", don't necessarily even know how to use a desktop OS, but they will understand the concept of an appstore. Which is pretty similar to a package repository.

>>52505297
Exactly. That's not a fault of Linux though.

>>52505350
Well I can only speak anecdotally, but yes plenty of children use a desktop OS, all the children in my class of 30 use windows and are very familliar with the 'traditional' methods of program acquisition and use, and my 3 younger brothers despite owning a mac and a pc will always go the same route, downloading the .exe or the .dmg installing it and running it.

No one I know that owns a mac uses their app store, they just download from the internet. Same with me.

Idk, perhaps in another 20 years you might be right, but the foundation for the windows centric installation system has been layed and is still in use.

>>52505363
I'm not saying it is, but thats why people have no desire to switch.

>>52505332
on consoles i guess

>>52505297
it is a wonder they figured out how to install candy crush on their iphone.

>>52505401
talk shit now, but give it a decade or 2 and these kids you're whailing on will run circles around you technology wise.

>>52505409
With the direction technology is currently taking I doubt that.

>>52505492
something will pop up that will be alien to us but a child will be able to learn quicker.

Take a hypothetical situation, say we get to a point where we can have computers embedded in our head, any features they may have will take us a while to learn and may feel very alien, however if its a device that is implanted at birth or a very early age a child will become adept with it much quicker.

An extreme example, but it was the first hypothetical new tech that popped into my mind.
A previous example would be touch phones and tablets, heaps of baby boomers cant figure that shit out, but it's nothing to any of us to use them very effectively and they seem very intuitive (for the most part) to us

>>52505521
touchscreen work pretty well (and usually better than mouse) for old people anon, because of their intuitiveness...

>>52504376
>better os

Compared to what? Linux? Nah.

> for free

Only if you have some windows instance with some arbitrary limits

> faster

nah, i have wide plethora of virtual machines and bare metal instances due to my line of work, I promise you debian boots a lot faster (full boot)

> more secure

with nsa/cia backdoors, and advertising ids

> and the most user friendly windows yet

god fucking dammit I have a demo lab with some machines running win10 and win10 insider preview, and I cannot comprehend how some settings are in metro looking interface and some are in old windows ui. How fast can you check your ip address in win10?

>If you think windows 7 is any better you're retarded

Gee ad hominem aside, it is better in many ways. One is however not gaming due to MS forcing ppl into win10 by restricting dx12.

I wish only the best of luck for vulkan. From consumer point of view, I wish it's going to be the api ever.

I'm pretty exited for it.

Nvidia had a talk about how they implemented Vulkan, and it basically boiled down to that they added the Vulkan APIs to the OpenGL code. They were proud to say that you could use OpenGL and Vulkan at the same time, but I think that's absolutely horrible. Nvidia has butchered the OpenGL implementation so much that you weren't getting the full performance of the GPU and putting Vulkan in the same codebase will to the same to Vulkan. Not the full performance gain we want. They still do some trickery when it comes to multithreading and validation and whatever that reduces performance.

AMD on the otherhand has the best Vulkan implementation. They started working from scratch, and their GPU's were basically build for what Vulkan is (not a big suprise because Vulkan based on Mantle). They fully support the multithreading nature of Vulkan.

And that's why I bought an AMD GPU instead of Nvidia.

Vulkan is like HTML5 where DirectX is like Adobe Flash.
TL;DR DirectX is inevitably going to die

>>52504577
>I don't bring any arguments to the table
>bb-b-ut 10 is better and you're retarded for not agreeing with me!!!!111

>tfw waiting for Vulkan so I can start programming again

>>52508293
>exited
Kek
So you left the room?

>>52505521
I tend to see babby boomers have a harder time with any desktop os that isn't XP and find using cell phones a lot easier than desktops.

Also I find it's a mentality of having no desire to figure something new out that prevents people from learning new things. My great uncle for example built his own 8 bit computer in the 80s in East Germany. He loves computers and being 86 still has no problems figuring out newer UIs.

On the flipside I work at a school and teachers in their thirties can't comprehend why windows executables don't run on chromebooks.

>>52504700
I wouldn't say Vulkan is tied only to newer hardware, I have a feeling that you'll see newer drivers and firmware with a vulkan back port

Not excited FOR vulkan, not excited to port my code TO vulkan. Using opengl 4.5 for a year and a half now, my perf is fine, getting PS4 quality on a 750ti. No reason to switch, I dont needed added trees.

>>52503619
>Will Vulkan succeed?

I hope it does, I don't wanna have to switch to Win 10 just for DX12.

>>52503856
>apple went full jew and forked vulkan for their own closed source version, metal. so no help from the apple camp.
Metal isn't a Vulkan fork, it's just Apple's completely own API that they originally developed for iOS. It may be similar in many regards, but it's not a fork and started development before Vulkan (or GLNext as it was originally called).

>>52508293
>Nvidia has butchered the OpenGL implementation so much that you weren't getting the full performance of the GPU and putting Vulkan in the same codebase will to the same to Vulkan. Not the full performance gain we want.
What the hell are you talking about? Nvidia's OpenGL implementation is easily the best one out there, at least if you don't mind bad GL API usage somehow working when it shouldn't (getting code like this running on other vendors' hardware can be a pain). You can write completely braindead rendering code that e.g. just updates the same buffer objects over and over again while issuing draw commands and it'll just work; on AMD GL buffer access stalls so easily you'd be lucky to get 25% of Nvidia performance. Even the Intel/Mesa drivers are better optimized for basic usage like that.

And it's not really anything new if Nvidia builds on their existing stuff: they've already got D3D-GL-CL interop extensions and their GLSL and OpenCL C compilers look suspiciously like CUDA frontends.

>>52503619
Vulkan will succeed -- it will become the dominant API for Android games.

Whether that gets it anywhere on the desktop is another matter. This guy >>52503856 gets it.

>>52508293
I saw that talk and I thought their coupling it with OpenGL was a good way for Nvidia to stealth push Vulkan on to Macs.

>>52508754
I think it's better to crash/malfunction when you call OpenGL wrong. And yes, Nvidia seems to have a better implementation but that's because they patch so much shit that you can do wrong, and they tweak a lot too to get better performance. And then developers start shitting on other vendors when they've only tested their shit on Nvidia. It should be clear if you do something wrong, not silently fix it in the background.

But the Vulkan API shouldn't be the same way. It should fail horribly when you do something wrong. It shouldn't magically do things to get extra performance. It is made to give the programmer full control over the GPU and make it do what you want.

>>52508866
>But the Vulkan API shouldn't be the same way. It should fail horribly when you do something wrong. It shouldn't magically do things to get extra performance. It is made to give the programmer full control over the GPU and make it do what you want.
What are you talking about, retard? If it COMPILES it wont CRASH.

Much like mainstream adoption of linux for desktop users, Vulkan is going literally nowhere.

>>52508815
Hm might be true.

>If it COMPILES it wont CRASH.
Full retard right here.

>>52508888
>if it compiles it won't crash!

*((int*) (void*)0)=1

>>52508917
>cherrypicking non graphics api examples

>>52508964
>n-no don't prove me wrong!

>>52508975
>posting irrelevant shit unrelated to any graphics calls!

>>52508975
>B-b-b-but my totally irrelevant example is totally relevant you know!!!

>>52508986
>>52508998
>samefagging

>>52508986
>>52508998
>samefagging

>>52508986
>>52508998
>samefagging

>>52505297
>Tl;dr, the bar can only be set lower. Raising it will piss people off.

>>52508866
GL has absolutely no way to immediately handle errors without killing performance; I think it's better if this kind of asynchronous black box system just keeps going in as many situations as possible. You can inspect your GL calls with apitrace or something to see if the API is being used correctly.

As for Vulkan, I understand it will have a "debug layer" in which error checking happens and no evil deed goes unpunished. You can probably turn it off in release builds and hope the black box still works the same way.

>>52509007
>>52509008
>>52509013

>>>52508986
>>>52508998 (You)
>>samefagging
Right... Keep telling yourself that.

depends on how much money nvidia is willing to shill out to devs so they don't use it.

>>52505521
>computers in our heads
>good goy
You know that shit will never be open source and have backdoors to the govt.
Take your neural botnet somewhere else.

>>52508917
*NULL;
Compiles but gives a warning

>>52504500
thanks P. Ajeet for your contribution, 50 rupees has been placed on your bank account

>>52509068
>Nvidia
>Against Vulkan

Are you aware Nvidia alone keep OpenGL alive for years while AMD completely neglected it.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-Vulkan-Driver-Only
What is this?

>>52508279
>How fast can you check your ip address in win10?
win-r > cmd > ipconfig
Like on every other windows

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It's already happening

street fighter v announced for
>windows
>ps4
>linux
>not for xbone

>>52509747
I'd just like see AMD get their shit working on linux at all, even if that means restricting support.

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>>52509783
>command line

>>52503856
I kinda doubt apple will ignore vulcan, it would hurt their platform too much to annoy developers and they are a part of the khronos group.

>>52503619
>Are you looking forward to this whole new audience coming to /g/ for advice and shitposting?
It can't get much worse tbqh

>>52505297
>download .deb package
>click to install
fuckin magic

>>52510217
they have metal. They haev already ignored modern opengl for years.

>Will Vulkan succeed?
No. They took too long, they lost their window of opportunity. People are already starting to use DX12 and by the time vulkan releases, so will a dozen DX12 games. The wheel will turn and that's it for vulkan.

>>52509783
>local IP

>>52509747
>AMD's Vulkan Linux driver will be closed-source at first
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, AMD!
YOU HAD ONE JOB
OOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
JJJJJJJJJJOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBB!

>>52510673
I am in no position to tell if Vulkan lost their window of opportunity, but I'm pretty sure it will come out soon - some Vulkan related events are planned for this and next month.

>>52510815
They pushed back its release to 2017.

>>52510815
If they release their finalized driver then AAA devs will have to learn it, debug it, guinea pig it. Their applications aren't going to look significantly better than the console version because thats just not how it werks. Making a pc only release? Well...you're not AAA then.

>>52508279
I was talking explicitly about comparing it to Windows 7/8. I'm pretty tired of /g/ hating windows 10 only because it works and is better in every feasible measurement.

>>52510836
Source on this?

>>52510875
Thank you for your services, Rajesh. You will find an additional 100 rupees in your account.

>>52510944
Dear nigger use Linux you cuck
But don't pretend that Windows 7 is better than 10

>>52510978
Thank you again Mr Rajesh. A 50 rupees bonus was deposited in your account.

>>52510873
I wasn't thinking about AAA scene at all, it's obvious they won't take advantage of Vulkan unless more people start using Linux, which makes it profitable for them. IMO Vulkan can improve indie scene, game engines like Unity / UE4 and it can bring 3D graphics to embedded devices with low graphics power.

>>52511147
>I wasn't thinking about AAA scene at all, it's obvious they won't take advantage of Vulkan unless more people start using Linux, which makes it profitable for them.
they can just use opengl 4.5 on linux which works now as is fine. The thing about GL 4.5 is that it gives you PS4 level graphics on 750ti. And once you have those level of graphics, things that matter are animation, voice acting, story, etc, not adding more trees or robots in the background like they have in the vulkan demos. I'm a dev. I know.

>embedded device buzzword
be specific please

>>52503856
Basically this.

I'm definitely switching to Linux when I buy new desktop hardware. I'm already on it on the laptop, it's only a matter of time until I go to the desktop as well. Literally everything works on Linux and if games really become a problem, then I'll make a VM with Windows 10.

>>52511224
The reason to use Vulkan over OGL4.5 is porting - spec is the same for mobile devices so if you want to port your game to tablet it should be faster and easier.

> embedded device
You can make your own console which is no bigger than raspberry pi and cheap as fuck. Vulkan will help juice out max performance out of the device and tiny GPU manufacturers won't have to produce bloated drivers to support OpenGL. Also someone can produce VR headset with built-in computer.

>>52504500
agreed man, the hoops I had to jump through just to get an oldass version of skype installed on debian was utter fucking bullshit.

>>52505521
heaps of baby boomers couldnt figure out their shitter nokia button phones 10 years ago either...

some people will always be shit with new tech

>>52511549
>The reason to use Vulkan over OGL4.5 is porting - spec is the same for mobile devices so if you want to port your game to tablet it should be faster and easier.
but your phone or tablet has fundamentally different controls that you have to design the whole game around. What you're saying doesnt add up im afraid :(.

>You can make your own console which is no bigger than raspberry pi and cheap as fuck.
But why? You'd still have to connect to a display and some kind of input controls, making the size difference negligible.

>>52510836
no they didnt faggot, early 2016

The way I see it there's two ways this could go
1. Developers use Vulkan to avoid losing Windows 7 users
Or more likely
2. We're stuck with DX11 for another 10 years

>>52511721
>I'm retarded and no-one can stop me!

>>52511627
Meanwhile on gentoo
>emerge -av skype
>y<ret>
Done

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>>52511814
Are you trying?

>>52511721
> but your phone or tablet has fundamentally different controls that you have to design the whole game around
You can connect controller to a tablet. I know most people don't want to carry additional controller around, but this has potential to become a trend in portable gaming. NVidia may even try second comeback with Shield tablet.

> But why? You'd still have to connect to a display and some kind of input controls
I don't know but the idea of raspberry sized console seams very attractive to me.

>>52511931
>You can connect controller to a tablet
You can, but you can't base your mobile game around a peripheral like this, unless you're the only one who's going to download it.

>>52511990
I guess you are right, but it could become popular - I know some people who use keyboard with their tablet.

>>52512130
autistic mobile gamers are such a small part of the market it dosent really matter

>>52504500
>Installation of nearly anything is hard as fuck for a normal on a Linux system.
If there is one fucking thing linux is good at, it's managing software. Windows has nothing on apt-get/pacman/dnf

>>52503856
Metal is not Vulcan - has never been and will never be. Those two concepts are different.
>>52510217
You are correct. Apple and IMG are members of Khronos group. In the early days, when we received Mantle spec, they also have voted and had a word about Vulcan design. Therefore, it is retarded to think that they won't support it.

>>52505332
>>52505398
Plus mobiles, tablets, browsers.

>>52505332
Any scientific application. One reason is that you really want to run it on linux because gpgpu performance is significantly higher, and you can also leverage multi-cpu, large memory, distributed systems etc. easier and more efficiently.