>IBM buys Express.js, freezes out all the main contributors to the repository, everybody else flees
https://github.com/strongloop/express/issues/2844
This kills Node.js.
Garbage in garbage out
I figured the io.js/node.js split would have killed it, but it didn't. Node will be popular until javascript gets a competitor in the browser. People don't like learning programming languages, and will try to use the same one everywhere, even if it doesn't belong.
>>52484232
Pretty much all Node.js project that serves web sites uses Express.js.
Unless they can quickly organize a fork, Node.js on web backend is fucked with IBM flushing Express.js down the toilet.
>>52484252
>Node.js on web backend is fucked with IBM flushing Express.js down the toilet.
Good riddance
>using Node.js
>ever
>This kills Node.js.
And that is bad?
fuck node
>>52484135
>IBM buys Red Hat, freezes out all the main contributors to the repository, everybody else flees
>This kills systemd
That would be good news many would like to hear.
Keep dreaming autists. If this becomes a problem express will be forked, like they did io.js when joyent tried to pull the same shit.
NodeJS isn't going anywhere.
IBM confirmed for savior of the web
>>52484252
Wouldn't Socket.IO be a viable alternative?
BASED IBM
>>52484487
>IBM buys Red Hat
>This kills systemd
That would kill most Linux development, anon. IBM would turn Linux into their next cash register OS.
I'm not a web dev, but why do you guys all seem to hate node.js? I've seen some pretty neat interactive/application websites that were programmed in it
>>52486521
Lots of people don't like javascript because it has a lot of "gotchas" and it is really easy to write terrible code.
>>52486521
Because nodejs enables the worst kind of developers a large say in development methodologies. No science or engineering expertise is involved in bashing out some shitty js tool or library, and thus no real support, documentation, or maintenance takes place.
Server technology is dead simple most of the time: make a shitty crud and call it a day. Multi-user or streaming tech is a little harder, but TCP streams have been around for decades. Websockets is literally the single most retarded way to do socket io, and json is the most retarded way to encode packet data. But lo, look what wonders node has brought us.
It's too bad oracle bought sun. JVM should have won
>>52486714
> and json is the most retarded way to encode packet data
Will you expand on this?
>>52486714
What do you recommend then
>>52486231
you obviously don't understand IBM's business model if you think they want to kill Linux
>>52486802
5based on that last line I'm guessing some shit like Spring Framework
>>52486714
>and json is the most retarded way to encode packet data
So.. re-encode it so it plays nice and re-assemble into json on the when operations are less time-sensitive?
>>52484135
So what the fuck is even node.js? Wikipedia tells me its a runtime environment whose 'applications' are written in Javascript. What do people use this for?
>>52487258
People use it to run Javascript programs outside the web browser, mostly server side web application code.
IBM x eggplant doujinshi when?
>>52487426
Why?
>IBM produces first 7nm cpu
>IBM buys a library of Node.JS killing the cancer that is Node.JS
IBM is sure trying to recover time lost lmao
>>52487493
What don't you understand?
>>52484252
Some core developers of Express have been working on Koa.js for some time now. And it is superior to Express with its usage of js generators(function*, yield). I think it is already a good alternative for the community.
>>52487538
Isn't JavaScript a very limited language?
What advantage is there from using JavaScript?
>>52487493
>>52487667
because lazy asshole front end web devs think they should be able to use their hard-earned (snicker) JavaScript skills for anything and everything. They'll do anything to avoid learning a new language.
that's literally it
>>52487667
>
My take for advantages are:
First class functions, anonymous function literals, good/fair closure semantics, JSON built in, event loop makes aync flow natural(this one is especially good for server architecture).
>>52487667
What else is there if you want to use websockets?
>>52487667
It's not. He's probably some >muh pure C or >muh LISP fedora wearing NEET who can only do Fizzbuzz, and is frustrated that others are making money and being productive enjoying something else.
>>52487816
it's due to all the high quality JIT'ing JS compilers like V8
JS boom is a second dot com bubble. Just wait for some major system to fail because of it and cause losing millions.
>>52487816
/thread
Also
>aredridel
>red hair
>overweight
>no fucking clue or indication whether that is a man or a butt ugly woman.
>how to read code repo on github
>repo links to youtube video in readme, that is it
All of my keks have been handed out for this morning
>>52487840
I asked what else is there if you want to use websockets.
What else is there?
Python? As bad as javascript/php.
Ruby? See above. I want strong explicit typing.
>>52487901
Use c then. It's not hard.
>>52487930
C is cancer. Anyone who programs using anything other than IBM punch cards doesn't really understand how a computer works, and should just kill himself.
>>52487930
>tfw nobody i know does socket programming in C
>that means no one can guide me either
>tutorials on the internet are pretty shit too
>tfw learned socket programming in C ALL by reading man pages
Its was fun as fuck
>>52487930
I honestly would love to use C++11 if there was a way to just use the .cpp files without needing to compile them.
Something like, upload .cpp file via ftp and it just works or the server throws 500 error if it doesn't compile.
Another thing i dislike is needing to read the entire RFC for the protocol you're implementing and handle all possible scenarios.
You want your implementation to be rigorous and stable.
>>52487901
Can somebody please answer this seriously?
>>52487966
Python/Ruby/Java/Javascript are all perfectly fine languages. Don't listen to any of the lonely neckbeards who want you to use C when they probably never held a real development job.
>>52487977
I don't listen to them. I actually used all of those myself.
And i didn't like them. Specially javascript.
You constantly need to worry about what the variable contains, where the memory is, etc.
It feels like they were designed for clever one-liner fizzbuzz scripts.
Except java. Java is okay i suppose, but it needs a lot of shit running in the background for it to work.
Though i agree. Pure C is a shit language. I don't know how anybody does anything without templates.
>>52488001
what did you dislike about Python and Ruby?
>>52488001
>Pure C is a shit language. I don't know how anybody does anything without templates.
>>52487949
man pages are pretty good for learning
you just need to not be a retard and require spoonfeeding
>>52488001
some people are programmers
those who didn't cut it are front end or web devs
know your place
>>52488001
imo the problem with C is the DIY attitude, if people would use high level libraries and stop fucking with arrays and pointer arithmetic most problems could be avoided
>>52488001
>Though i agree. Pure C is a shit language. I don't know how anybody does anything without templates.
Anon embedded work is 90% based on C, its not a shit language, it just gives you too much control over the machine thats not required for most applications but for some
>>52488017
Not much experience with ruby, but i can tell you about python.
I constantly need to check implicit type conversions.
If i'm writing a reusable module, i treat all inputs as something an attacker might want to use.
That means i constantly need to worry about the type of the variable, lengths, if it contains anything else, etc.
Also, you have no private data in python. The code ends up being extremely horrible and unmaintainable as people just use random objects from different modules as temporary storage.
Then these modules start relying on these temporary objects and things just get out of hand.
If your language allows different types to be assigned to the same variable, it makes it a lot harder to write stable code.
>>52488053
What if i actually want to write back-end and front-end for a website?
Do i really need to go asm.js route?
>>52488059
If people are consistent throughout their code, C code can actually be pretty good.
Though people usually aren't, which makes their code a mess.
>>52488059
>stop fucking with arrays and pointer arithmetic
'no'
>>52488099
you will fuck up, see the openssl/ssh guys who still can't check their array bounds or int overflows after a decade
how about elixirrrrrr
>>52488226
meme
>>52488088
That's a very good point about Python.
Is that an issue with Ruby as well or is it easier to build secure code with it?
>This kills Node.js.
GOOD.
If you write Javascript for a living, I want you to be hit by a bus. You are on the same level as lawyers, marketers, and tax collectors.
>>52488971
seems like you got some issues anon
want to talk about it?
>>52488998
I do have issues. Issues with the internet. It's so bad now. So fucking bad.
When good JS replacement for in the browser?
>>52489075
BTW, people here who talk here about C are retarded. You on your own will never make any good Web server in C.
>>52486714
>JVM should have won
But JEE is shit anon, Java is not good for web stuff.
>>52489106
>You on your own will never make any good Web server in C
Literally all of the good web servers are written in C.
>>52489005
very true anon I feel you
Why don't you just quit it for a while? Chill with a book or a show or whatever?
>>52489125
it's actually pretty great imo and it's a lot faster than most of the alternatives
>>52489130
Yeah, but not yours. Maybe if you want to serve static content you could use one of those. If you want to make your own application, these servers are useless and you'll have to write one yourself.
And if you think your server will be on par with stuff like Nginx or Apache you're completely delusional.
Just use a language with support/great libraries for Web services, instead of reinventing the wheel again and again and again.
>>52486714
>json is the most retarded way to encode packet data.
More retarded than XML?
>>52487499
>IBM buys a library of Node.JS killing the cancer that is Node.JS
how retarded are you? even if express magically disappeared tomorrow node would still be going strong. it's not the only web framework on node..
go back to your desktop ricing threads and dont spout your meme opinions on things you dont understand
>>52484135
>node.js
please kill it with fire
>>52484327
This. Even PHP is better
>>52489218
>i enjoy JEE
How?
>>52484327
>>52484310
>>52486714
>>52487816
Fucking idiots complaining about node.js
I built a fucking 150 real time networked 3d game from scratch in node.js and sockets.io and it works flawlessly - what the fuck have you ever built in your life?
Nothing , we know it, so no need to answer you fucking idiots.
>>52490185
*150 player
>>52490185
>I write drivers in bash.
You could have used the time you spent learning node on learning a language that isn't designed for web browsers. Your users hate you and your laggy POS.
>>52490235
the game is a browser game you fucking moron
Sorry for the sleep, here goes:
>>52486767
>>52487145
>>52489483
It's not that json is a bad format, it's that it's a serialization document. That means a document parser at each end, a moderate overhead to tag each element appropriately, etc. This is not "bad" per se, but one of the better results of computers getting faster.
The problem here is websockets having a ridiculous packet structure. It's got a begin and end word and is forcefully treated as async. You have no control over the internal packet data and you're locked to TCP only. That means the only thing it's suitable for is transmitting web documents like json and xml since trying to encode data would almost trivially run into unexpected instances of 0xffff accidentally ending your packet.
I guess this is useful since webdevs are using it, but it's just not enough.
>>52486802
>>52487069
Webasm and asm.js are both illiterate alternatives to a portable mature and *secure JVM. I hate java as much as the next guy, but the VM is a masterpiece of engineering. Using it as the binary script format would have given developers *good* tools a decade ago. But sun and oracle fucked up and now we pay the consequence. I don't recommend anything because there's no decent alternative.
>>52487901
.net has a few decent websockets libraries, java probably does too. It's a real simple protocol, you could probably build one yourself in your favorite typed language
>>52489125
JEE is pretty great for web stuff. Jaxrs beats the pants off node, jaxws plays nice with all the legacy shit, jsp invalidates php and Ruby safely, and there's a driver for every single database under the sun. The only downside is java, which you don't even have to use.
>>52490185
I've built networked real-time multiplayer games with real time Newtonian physics in C++. I've done this in afternoons before. I'm also probably building your healthcare provider's web presence. Go have fun writing a framework to make deep copies.
>>52486231
>xyz kills systemd
>That would kill most Linux development
So you're saying that systemd basically IS Linux at this point, and killing systemd would result in killing Linux?
>>52490348
Most *new* stuff in Linux these days is drivers and poettering-ware from redhat. Killing off systemd would remove the necessity to rebuild the entire cnc structure for Linux from scratch since it already worked before they started.
Remember: systemd's entire existence is because sysv sucks. Ignore the fact that sysv was outmoded for years before that though with a dozen other init daemons.
>>52490344
>trying to encode data would almost trivially run into unexpected instances of 0xffff accidentally ending your packet.
That would occur whether or not the packet was encoded or not
>I've built networked real-time multiplayer games with real time Newtonian physics in C++. I've done this in afternoons before.
I dont believe you, link pls?
>>52484135
Can't they just fork it and keep working on the forkß
![IBM_5100_-_MfK_Bern[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UcqasVI.jpg "IBM_5100_-_MfK_Bern[1].jpg")
I B M
B B
M M
B A S E D
>>52490344
>you're locked to TCP only
This is completely wrong too
>>52490402
I mean binary encodes. Base64 and serial documents simply don't contain that value ever.
And I don't care if you believe me. Building networked multiplayer isn't hard if you can comprehend synchronisation. Even if I did, I can't link code since it's lost to time.
>>52490185
How was this photo taken?
>>52490440
Oh?
Fuck node and all related serverside javascript memeing.
>>52490443
>Building networked multiplayer isn't hard... lost to time
so it was shit
>I mean binary encodes. Base64 and serial documents simply don't contain that value ever.
You can send binary through websockets, wtf are you talking about?
IBM stronk
>>52490462
you realise that is 5 years out of date
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/22649492/when-using-dgram-udp-with-socket-io-at-what-speed-are-the-datagrams-sent-nod
>>52487833
Java offers all that.
>>52490492
And you risk breaking your protocol due to the packet framing spec. If you think sending binary through websockets is a good idea, you're a retard.
>>52490508
Then that's brand new becuase link 4 was from April and said the same thing
>>52490344
What do you think about Spring?
I never used JEE, but I am very experienced with Spring and I am loving it.
>>52490539
It's sufficient. I'd rather code-based config personally, but taking every little bit of code out of the hands of pajeet is a good thing.
>>52490538
breaking news - if you look at what nodeJs could do over a long enough time line you too would find it doesn't even exist! weird huh !
>And you risk breaking your protocol due to the packet framing spec.
Give me an example of what "breaking your protocol" means
Interesting image though, I won't argue this point further until I have more info.
>>52490597
Wikipedia says TCP only, but you give a good claim too, so investigation is worthwhile.
I already said: accidentally send a word aligned 0xffff and you break the frame. It might not even need alignment to break.
>>52490682
>a word aligned 0xffff and you break the frame
I dont follow
but thanks for your replies
>>52487499
>spew bullshit
>eat more bullshit
>>52490296
kek
>>52490707
Was gonna reply with an example, but decided to check the rfc. The spec allows binary just fine, seems that most implementations are shit and look for 0x0000 [data] 0xffff
>meme.js
Good riddance.
>>52490446
>aliens
probably through a window of a shuttle or capsule. You can see the reflections of some kind of interior
>Express.js is maintained a single fucking person
>And companies build their shit on this
>>52490847
Thanks for the reply I enjoyed our heated discussion, have a good day
https://github.com/strongloop/express/issues/2827
>>52490847
I dunno about server-side impls but I've sent all sorts of binary data over and both Chrome and Firefox seem to handle it just fine
websockets need to understood in the context of what webdevs had before, which was either flash(lol) or long-polling which destroys server cap. At my place of work we recently decommissioned a server that _only_ did long-polling, because when we started doing push events it would completely hog the cpu, and we don't even get that much traffic
afaik you can do udp-like sockets (they're actually srmtp) using webRTC, but the spec is much more complex than websockets so I haven't really had a chance to mess around with it
>>52484135
>using Express
All I use NodeJS for is websockets and pass through to a real backend.
>>52486182
Yeah. I never use express, it's just middle bloatware for muh RESTful endpoints like its 2010.
>>52490446
What are satellites?
The ISS orbits quite low compared to some satellites.
>>52486714
>JVM should have won
opinion discarded
Salty Javafags mad that a shitty scripting language is better than their behemoth.
Unlike Java I actually don't mind have V8 on my machine.
>>52491611
>my machine
But Java is for servers Anon, why would you have it on your machine?
>>52491611
And now we'll get webasm which will have the same problems as JavaScript and none of the stability.
I don't like jvm or clr, they just happen to be mature technologies vs whatever shitshow is coming and the one that's already here.
If JavaScript was any good, you wouldn't need 10 transpilers and a dozen browser compatibility frameworks to get anything done.
>>52491611
>I actually don't mind
that's because you're brain damaged, anon!
>>52492036
muh coffeescript, muh modernizr, muh gulp to the grunt to the brunch on the bower!
>>52484135
So what, then those guys use koa.js, hapijs or meteor which are even more bloated and more slow.
>>52492080
Also it's really amazing that when V8 and PHP7 made things faster, they simply poured more bloat like meteor and laravel over it with little to no benefit.
I am flatly amazed that the express project doesn't have one of those SJW code of conducts.
How has one not concern trolled them about this yet?
