What is the technical reason why touchpad can't be good for gaming or other fast precise movements?
Logically speaking it seems like it should be just as good as a mouse. Instead of an optical beam tracking the ground, a surface is tracking your finger or hand. Why is the inverse so much worse, what is the precise technical reason?
Do they just not use good enough parts, is it a technical limitation that could be overcome by better equipment? Or are touchpads forever doomed to being second rate mice?
I use a trackball btw which is really great but it has more obvious limitations than I can wrap my head around compared to a touchpad. I understand a touchscreen being limited by the screen refresh rate for example but not touchpad.
hard to click
Indirectly using fingers to point is hard and takes practice, mice are more intuitive as the mouse on the screen is where the mouse is in real life (touch pads pick up finger all the time, so it's always relative to last movement).
>>52037643
So if there were physical buttons that allowed me to easily click and track simultaneously, what now?
>>52037738
>Indirectly using fingers to point is hard and takes practice
But it's not anymore indirect than a mouse's sensor. You're using identical movements in fact you could emulate the precise shape your hand is in while holding a mouse but keeping your index finger pointed down on the trackpad so would the tracking be the same then?
>>52037739
You still likely have to move your hand to click those buttons. Whereas a mouse the buttons are always in the same place relative to your hand.
>>52038012
Let's say for the sake of argument your hands are larger than a baby and you don't have to move your hand and can fully perform all the movements a mouse can, what now?
>>52038031
Are you suggesting mousing with your index finger, then clicking buttons with your index/middle? Because you'll still have to move them to those fixed button positions depending on where your finger ended up from your last mouse movement.
If you're suggesting mousing with your thumb and then using index/middle, I don't see how that's an advantage over a trackball mouse.
>>52037404
The problem is that your fingers are much thicker than laser beam, which makes it pretty much impossible to make touchpad precise.
>b-but what if we use some kind of stylus then?!?!
That's called graphical tablet and it's quite popular for rhythm game called osu! Granted, people use keyboard buttons to click and only use tablet to aim.
>>52038244
That's fascinating I did not know people used stylus for rhythm games. So if I fashioned a stylus that could go over my fingertip then I presume I could use it with accuracy of a mouse then?
>>52038191
>Are you suggesting mousing with your index finger, then clicking buttons with your index/middle?
No, I use my thumb and I've done this before it works fine but I've never used a touchpad with good tracking before so I wonder what the limitation is? Alternatively as >>52038191 said you can map keyboard keys to mouse clicks. The button part is really dumb you can make anything into a button it's a non issue.
>>52038459
>you can map keyboard keys to mouse clicks
But then a one-handed operation becomes a two-handed operation. That doesn't mean it's necessarily worse. But it's a trade-off.
>>52037404
Werks for me on my steam controller
>>52037404
no, logically speaking it shouldnt be as good as a mouse, because the precision isnt nearly the same and you have the friction of your finger going over the surface instead of a mouse going over a surface
>>52038545
Yes but I never expressed interest in how many hands would be used for the job, just the tracking speed and accuracy.
>>52038562
I have a steam controller and I don't like the accuracy. It requires a large amount of smoothing to remove horrible jitter from the tracking. The smoothing makes the input less precise. Thing has some neat features but the features I need are frustratingly poorly designed.
>>52038596
as an anecdote, I can track with way better speed and accuracy on a mouse with horrible friction mouse surface than the touchpads I've used before so friction is almost completely irrelevant in this comparison.
>>52038353
Not for all rhythm games. Most of rhythm games are played with either keyboard or arcade style dedicated pad, osu is the only game I know of where graphical tablet is actually the most efficient way to play. For most other games mouse would be better. Look up shigetora on youtube if you want to see example of osu! gameplay, keep in mind it's weeb game so be prepared for weeb music.
>>52038678
i was saying the mouse is going to have a much better movement compared to a trackpad. so i guess its not relevant because the trackpad is fucking garbage no matter what
>>52038716
i found this video of someone setting up and playing csgo on a draw tablet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0gALdyD3xE
seems legit
>>52038731
that's the impression i got based on my personal experience but i was trying to figure out precisely why, technically speaking. is it just the quality of the parts or some other reason? it seems like it's the same as a mouse tracking only inverse. i don't understand the exact reason why the tracking is so much worse?
>>52038191
I mouse with my pointer finger and click with my thumb on the button. I also disable tap-to-click
>>52038031
The operating area of touchpad is what, 3x3" ? Now the are of a mouse is at least 3-4 times bigger? Bigger area means more precision, also most normal people have somewhat developed arm muscles and find it easier to use the mouse (while also having an option to use multiple mouse buttons at the same time
>>52039337
>The operating area of touchpad is what, 3x3"
depends on the touchpad. some have a larger operating area than a mousepad.
as anecdote, i setup my mouse on a tiny mousepad where i could not move more than <1cm any direction and the speed and precision was still vastly superior to a large surface area touchpad.
>>52039432
Then you have superb hand eye coordination, most people dont.
>>52037404
Excuse me, but what you're referring to as a touch pad, is actually a touch pad plus buttons.
I'm not sure if this is only the case with older synaptics trackapds, or if this is some sort of option, but on my late laptop (died 6 months ago) the trackpad would not track when the keyboard is being used. So I've always thought since then that all trackpads do this. But ever since I got used to the mouse (took me 2 weeks to fully adapt to using a mouse), I have to say trackpads feel like shit. I was also very precise with the trackpad tbqh, it felt more natural than a mouse, well at least until I started using a mouse for longer than a week.
>>52039687
I do actually but I don't think that's the technical reason why. The same holds true almost under any circumstance so the technical reason why touchpads track so poorly compared to mouse remains unexplained.
>>52037404
It's for the same reason you don't use a tiny little mouse with huge buttons for gaming.
I noticed that earlier in the thread someone was trying to say how awkward it makes clicking, and you kept adding onto the hypothetical to dismiss what he was saying. The reality is that having your buttons stationary relative to the tracking is possible, but having to move and stretch the muscles in your hand for movement robs you of being able to use those muscles as effectively for precision and stabilization. A physical object you can palm that has buttons attached is superior.
It's like trying to use a gamepad with analogue sticks to play a FPS: sure it works, and some guys can get pretty good with it... but it's not even in the same league of precision you get out of a mouse and kb.
>>52040405
Also, even *good* trackpads lack the level of precision you get from a mouse, because it's tracking the surface of an object (your finger) that changes size and shape as it moves and flexes
A stylus with mouse buttons on it would be better (but still probably not as good).
>>52040405
nah you just bind click to keyboard button, total non issue. your dumb. and yes, i can use my hand without any issue whatsoever and click the thumb buttons simultaneously, it's easy as fuck.
>>52040493
sure you can.
To answer your actual question: because it's gimmicky and dumb and doesn't even work as well as what we already have.
>>52040476
>A stylus with mouse buttons on it would be better (but still probably not as good).
yes it has already been said that a stylus tracks better than a finger but what has not been said is why the tracking is still poor compared to a mouse, what is the technical reason why?
>>52040513
>because it's gimmicky and dumb and doesn't even work as well as what we already have
yes we have already reached this conclusion hence the purpose of this thread so as to not restate this conclusion but instead discover the technical reason why which nobody seems to know.
>>52037404
a trackpoint is superior
>>52040515
>because it's tracking the surface of an object (your finger) that changes size and shape as it moves and flexes
That's literally the technical reason why.
>>52040541
an ultra precise stylus still doesn't come anywhere near matching the speed and precision of a mouse so that's literally not the technical reason why. there's something else.
>>52040566
Yes it does, that's how you draw on computers.
>>52040609
yes it works good for drawing like a steering wheel is good for racing games but it can't match a mouse in speed and precision in many things besides drawing or every competitive gaymer would be using one instead of a mouse or at least there would be a lot who use them.
>>52040566
Instead of an object like a finger or stylus, think of it as tracking a 2d slice of the object that contacts the pad. Even an "ultra precise" stylus is going to change it's contact profile based on the objects orientation and the pressure used. It's always going to be less precise because of this.
>>52040609
It's still less precise than a mouse can be, though the difference is negligible enough to only be noticed when the feedback has to be as close to real-time as possible. I'm also not convinced that drawing tabs are using the same tracking methods as touchpads do.
>>52040682
>. Even an "ultra precise" stylus is going to change it's contact profile based on the objects orientation and the pressure used. It's always going to be less precise because of this.
I guess that makes sense and thus concludes our lesson on why touchpads are shit. Thanks for joining us and see you next time!
>Logically speaking
Are you retarded?
>>52040040
>the trackpad would not track when the keyboard is being used
>some sort of option
It's to keep you from moving the cursor or selecting anything with your palms as you type.
>>52041367
threads over retard
