You have 1/8th of a nanosecond to explain why you are not learning or programming in C# right now.
Because D is better
>>52033057
Because fuck vm languages
>>52033057
If C# is so great, why do you feel such a great need to justify the time you spent learning it with these threads? If you like C# so much, why don't you code it instead of making these threads?
>>52033119
>If you like C# so much, why don't you code it instead of making these threads?
I am. It takes me less than 20 seconds to post a thread tbqh.
>>52033057
.Net
Mono is still shit
/thread
>>52033140
But why do you keep making the threads?
>>52033057
I want you to talk dirty with me.
Because I'm lazy
I'm on my phone and in the middle of Christmas Eve dinner, that's why.
>>52033057
Because I already know C# and C++ is better.
>>52033057
Because fuck your botnet, M$
>>52033057
Because imperative non-native bytecode GC shit.
How long until OP gets bored of making these threads?
>>52033279
you can AOT compile if you don't like bytecode or JITing.
>>52033057
But I am actually in Udemy.
>>52033300
Still cannot see any major advantage over cross-platform frameworks like Qt.
>>52033057
Coz clojure makes writing java apps soo awesome.
Muh portability
Muh swing
>>52033337
lol, wut? C# is a language, QT is a cross platform UI framework (which happens to support C#). You're comparing things that have nothing to do with each other.
>>52033342
>closure
>dynamic typing
uttery disgusting
>Muh portability
The shitty JVM has no advantage here.
>Muh swing
One of the world's most disgusting UI frameworks still in use today.
>>52033342
Swing sucks and from what I can tell clojure suffers from high startup times. Not a good fit for desktop applications but pretty good for serverside stuff desu.
>>52033389
Honestly I would love the shit out of lisp if it had static typing that doesn't make me want to pull my eyeballs out.
Because I'm developing my own language that is perfect for me.
>know C# and Javascript
is there a point to learning anything else?
>>52033342
Why is it Java fags can't open their mouths without embarrassing themselves?
>Microsoft® Java™ except with absolute shit support outside of wangblows
Why the fuck would I bother with that? Regular Java is shit enough as it is, no need to slather on platform lockin
>>52033389
>One of the world's most disgusting UI frameworks still in use today.
>actually, literally implying this
I bet you think that flat and material design are good, you probably use sans fonts and worship helvetica, don't you faggot?
>>52033450
Depends what you want to do.
F# is pretty amazing.
I should, but I'm learning F# which I'm more interested in using. C# seems really ugly once you get used to F#.
because I'm not a winfaggot
>>52033465
>I bet you think that flat and material design are good, you probably use sans fonts and worship helvetica, don't you faggot?
I do like material design. Sans fonts are okay, and pretty good for computer screens. Helvetica is fine, but I don't worship it.
>true beauty.png
That literally looks like something for linux in 1997.
>>52033465
Swing isn't all bad, but jesus christ those buttons are disgusting.
There is still a lot to improve.
>>52033057
I'm lazy
C# truly is God-tier.
>Everything is built into the framework
Can non-C# fags even compete?
>>52033510
>I do like material design
>liking useless shit that trades usability and functionality for eyecandy and lags like a mofo on older devices
>That literally looks like something for linux in 1997.
>implying this is bad
>>52033546
F# is better m8. Your god was dethroned in 2006.
>>52033057
I'm learning Rust instead.
You Google/Microshills can go die for all I care.
Object oriented programming has many advantages for a poorly organized group of amateurs and no definite advantages or disadvantages for a lone programmer, hence its heavy adoption in industry but "peer" status in communities.
If you're going to write anything but OO C# you might as well use another language.
>>52033568
>treating OOP as anything but a tool
Both OOP evangelists and anti-OOP evangelists are equally retarded.
>>52033559
I don't like F# syntax.
Looks weird af tbqh baka goml
>>52033557
>that trades usability and functionality for eyecandy and lags like a mofo on older devices
It makes it easier to use for normies, which was the goal. Shouldn't be used on older devices imo.
>implying this is bad
You learn quick anon
>>52033589
What don't you like about it?
I was a C# dev for a long time, once you get resharper for visual studio its actually good fun to write. But recently work has made me do Scala and its better in almost every way I find. But .net is better for UI and web stuff.
>>52033591
How far do we have to go before people understand approachability is a benefit to technology.
MUH TREEHOUSE
>>52033667
It's not even that. Some people just hate watching technology change. I remember 15 years ago I often would find people on IRC channels who felt all GUI was garbage and a "waste of clock cycles". Now those people are kinda died out, but now people feel like all gui should look like it was made in 1995, because then it was "perfect". In years to come we'll see people saying everything should look like material design, and no one needs any of the new shit we develop in the meantime.
>>52033648
>Scala
>good
I feel so sorry for the people who've gotten snared by the Scala trap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiJycy6dFSQ
F# is literally what Scala wanted to be, just like C# is what Java wanted to be. Thank god we have Microsoft to clean up the mess that is the JVM and it's shitty languages.
>>52033450
>know Javascript
is there a point to learning anything else?
>>52033820
yes anon. JS is only good for webdev. Is otherwise a pretty shitty language for large projects.
>>52033820
this tbqh f(am)
>>52033834
>JS is only good for webdev
What else would it be used for? Software development?
>>52033667
>wanting retards to do interact with technology past the bare minimum or wanting them to even think that they somehow understand any portion of it when they clearly don't
You have no idea how many people I have to deal with who think they know more about technology than me just cause they're able to navigate to Facebook and install Chrome.
>fry's service department
>lady comes in complaining about laptop heating up
>some cheap HP from a year ago, four gigs ram, dual core i3 or i5
>have to get her to turn it on and log in, to make sure that it's not an issue caused by improper care
>turns on and logs in fine
>look at desktop, holy shit filled with pictures and documents and shit, can't even read most of the file names, all truncated for visibility
>ask her when she notices the overheating, she says when she's browsing the net
>open up chrome to see if i can replicate the issue
>hundreds of tabs all chugging to open up
>connected to fry's wifi, coworker starts complaining that he can't download drivers for his fix unit anymore
>most of the tabs are facebook, five different email sites, shitty clickbait news sites
>try to open task manager, takes a long ass time to open up
>80% memory usage, 70% CPU load
>try to explain to her that she needs to clear out her browser, since it's eating up a whole bunch of the resources
>she adamantly tells me that it's "impossibly cause google chrome is so fast! you should know, you work with computers all the time!"
>insists that it's a hardware issue and that we should take it in cause she bought the warranty
>my fucking face when
>>52033559
Nemerle is even better.
>>52033057
Because my penis burns
>>52033057
Because Java as a platform and it's libraries and frameworks are superior.
>>52033907
Its syntax is trash, even in 8.
>>52033907
http://docs.spring.io/spring-framework/docs/2.5.x/api/org/springframework/aop/framework/AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean.html
I sure feel like I'm missing out.
>>52033342
Clojure is JS, not Java.
>>52033118
.NET can now be compiled to native code.
>>52034048
It works on both
>>52034055
It's been doing this for a long time - check out GAC.
>>52033875
It can be used for almost anything these days. Desktop apps, mobile apps etc.. but it's not a good idea unless you have a lot of JS knowledge you can reuse.
>>52034055
I read that's only supported on Windows 10 though
...which makes it useless
>>52033977
example, pls
>>52033057
I want to make a game for android.
I realize I could theoretically use C#, but wouldn't it be a much less frustrating experience if I'd write it in java? Completely new to android development too, so I figured I'd go with the best documented way.
>>52034347
Mono has been able to AOT compile code for years now. It's how mono runs on iOS.
>>52033057
>forced oop
absolutely disgusting
>>52034476
It's not forced
>>52034416
If you want to "just like make game", take a look at Haxe (+Flixel) or the new release of love2d. I really enjoyed the latter, but I can't tell you about the performance on android, just that it's supported. Both Languages(Haxe and Lua respectively) are cross-platform in this case.
>>52033834
And there's a catch
Webdev is shitty in itself!
SAAS = perfect DRM
Networking = inherently insecure
Remote document interpreter = bad runtime environment
>>52033667
People prioritizing approachability without considering performance are people driving normies to the apple tree in droves 2bh.
>so what if my material designed python apps lag like fuck? it's easy to use. normal people don't care about that, autist.
>"wow this is laggy as fuck i'm going to buy a mac and use software written in objective C"
A lot of things are actually more friendly to the people making them than the people using them
Material design is one of those things
>>52034507
>SAAS = perfect DRM
that's good though
>Networking = inherently insecure
not true
>Remote document interpreter = bad runtime environment
Or a great one, depending on your goals.
>>52033735
In years to come we'll see people saying everything should look like GUIs in 1970, and software corporations will agree because then their software will be snappier on ultra low-power devices that can't run heavier UIs
Material design is merely an intermediate step. First they take away the large amount of UI elements, then they take away the details, then the shadows, then the diversity of colors....
Only images and videos will still appear visually rich, because they'll be priority content, and future "smart terminal" devices running an OS with remote access dependency inspired by plan 9 won't have enough resources to render anything else
All "indie retro" aesthetic trends are completely manufactured by friends of the software industry to accelerate this process. The fact that 90s kids who don't actually remember much of the 90s are obsessed with shit more characteristic of the 80s and 70s is.... a lucky coincidence.
>>52034385
The prime example is generics. The other is lack of operator overloading YET strings can be concatenated with +. Lambdas can modify only limited set of variables despite GC. There haven't been any lambdas till 8. And many more examples.
>>52034558
>that's good though
no, it isn't. you'll be copy-free, but you'll be stomped by apple and apple-alikes that don't sell software, but rather a combined software/hardware experience. SAAS and SAAP are outdated business paradigms that screw the user over one way or another.
SAAS - not everyone has good wifi all the time, and your servers may be fucked at some point.
SAAP - the developer must worry about portability and performance on different versions of different platforms or risk losing countless users.
software as a hardware feature, while something of a throwback to pre-PC days, is the new hotness, because not concerning yourself with portability opens up all sorts of avenues to increased productivity, fewer bugs, better stability, and more features. it's more expensive, but yes, it's better.
i see the future like so:
poor people that just browse facebook will use services
nobody will use software as a product
rich people will use hardware platforms
general purpose computing will, once again, be the domain of the economic elite, intellectuals, and nerds. welcome back to the 20th century.
Why is there so many features in C#? How do I understand and remember them all?
And is it cheating to more or less copy code when you're trying to make something? I understand how it works but there's no way to "write it myself" without it looking identical.
>>52034931
It all depends in all honesty, what are you copying? And why aren't you looking for open source libraries to use if you're just going to take code
>>52034931
>How do I understand and remember them all?
By reading a book on them.
>And is it cheating to more or less copy code when you're trying to make something?
No, this is pretty much how all software gets written.
>I understand how it works but there's no way to "write it myself" without it looking identical.
If it looks identical to good code, then you're doing better than most programmers.
Alternatives to Visual Studio? Are there any?
>>52036369
>By reading a book on them.
I could only seem to find books on the basics of C#, everything else seems to be learned by documentation, stackoverflow or trying and learning.
>>52033057
>1/8th of a nanosecond
During this time, light could travel about 4 centimeters. I need some more time to express my complaints about your meme language.
>>52036551
hundreds. VS is best for C# though.
>>52036628
any decent book on C# will talk about every feature in the language.
>>52036681
Recommend some?
They go through the features but I'm still stuck on making actual applications, not some meme dumb shit that is unusable.
>>52036717
http://csharpindepth.com/
>>52036717
first result on amazon:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1491927062?keywords=C%23&qid=1450991410&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
>They go through the features but I'm still stuck on making actual applications
well what are you looking for? Knowing the language well doesn't mean you can make good applications suddenly. It will just help.
You asked for a book that will teach you all the features, and this is one.
>>52034055
Yes, if you don't use any of the language's important features.
>>52037580
Such as?
>>52034487
Except it is.
>>52033057
Because I program in c++
C# is just a fad, stuff like that come and go all the time
>>52037830
in what way?
>>52037862
can something be popular for 15 years and be called a fad? If it's popular for that long, it's still well worth learning.
>>52033057
Fuck off with this shift prajeet.
Not a day goes by that I don't see this fucking logo in the catalog.
Nobody likes your shitty lang your are forced to code in for a living.
>>52037946
It's not worth learning if you never want to work in shitty MS shops.
>>52038024
True. It's great though if you just want to know a great and productive programming language.
>>52037946
Why not learn c++? Its superior in every way, everything you do in c# can be done in c++ and more.
>>52036665
looking for alternatives to VS. What are some of the better known/popular alternatives?
>>52038118
Yeah, I hear C++ is better these days. But it's still hugely over complicated at this point. C# is a lot safer, and tonnes of shit can be done at compile time as a result. I can always hook into C++ code pretty easy if I need to. Doesn't happen often though.
>>52038214
monodevelop
xamarin studio
Visual Studio Code (though it's not fully out yet, currently in RC I think)
>>52038118
True. But its more difficult for most folks.
>>52038118
>Why not learn c++? Its superior in every way, everything you do in c# can be done in c++ and more.
C++ is much harder, more confusing and a lot more work than C#.
In C# you can do something in a few hours which would take days/weeks in C++. Also the code is a lot more intuitive and makes a lot more sense than C++.
You can also shoot yourself in the foot 10 000 different ways in C++.
>>52038257
I think that c++ (unlike c) scales well, simple stuff can be done using simple operations and if there is a need for complex stuff it can do that too
>>52038359
We're not discussing C tho
What ever happened to all that talk about a c#/.Net native complier?
I think that would help increase peoples interest and use of c#.
>>52038118
Garbage syntax and the whole standard library is garbage. C# has richer syntax with stuff like extension methods, reflection, "dynamic" keyword(just check out ExpandoObject), nameof keyword, string interpolation and many more things simply impossible in C++. And before you start typing your reply, C# supports raw pointers and manual memory management as well.
>>52038447
Hell, with some caveats you can serialize FUNCTIONS in C#. That is, store them in a file, pass them over network, etc. Yet it's not an interpreted language.
>>52038404
ASP.NET 5 (currently in RC) can compile ASP.NET project's directly to exe's, or binaries that will run on os x or linux.
Mono has supported AOT compiling for years.
All u need to survive in this game
>>52038636
>2008
lmao
>>52038658
2008 > 1997
>>52038673
Is it any good?
C# is a great choice for creating Windows applications, thats about it. When Google chose to base Android on Java they also abolished every chance that C# will ever be as relevant and ubiquitous as Java (pic related).
The next generation of languages like Go, Rust and Swift is already created, and they solved most of the issues C# and Java are both suffering from (VM overhead, forced GC, dependencies on fuckhuge .NET and JRE environments), while still offering the same amount of elegance and easiness for the developers and tons of other modern features without any legacy cruft.
At this point there is no reason to use C# other than supporting legacy stuff or being an enterprise .NET monkey.
>>52039077
Shit, let me burn all of my c# books and put the java ones back on my desk/shelves.
Damn, thanks for letting me know whats popular. I don't want to be left behind.
>>52039077
Go and Rust are DOA
Swift will never be used for anything except iOS dev
>>52039227
>Go is DOA
Go is an insanely practical language that is already used in tons of real world appliances and it has got good chances of becoming the next big thing.
Give it a few years and Microsoft will create a clone of one of those languages like they always do once something is popular.
>>52039227
Swift was thrown together as quickly as possible so Apple didn't actually have to explain why the fuck they were using Objective-C originally.
>>52039360
Go is useless. It serves no purpose. It's just a matter of time before a few well known Go users write posts with titles like
>"Why we are moving away from Go"
Where they explain that while they still love go and still believe in it, they begin to list all the problems with it that everyone with sense has been talking about from day 1. And then it will no longer be cool, and the gullible people who used it will move on to the next fad language.
>Give it a few years and Microsoft will create a clone of one of those languages like they always do once something is popular.
You know Swift is basically Apple's version of F# right? They basically headhunted a bunch of the F# team to make Swift.
>>52039363
Swift is basically Apple saying
>Sorry about objective-c. Here's our way of admitting that absolutely everything about objective c was shit.
>>52039433
>Go is useless. It serves no purpose.
Slim, lightweight and portable network or server-side applications that are easy to scale. It basically fills a hole between scripting languages (too slow / impractical in big teams), Java or C# (too heavyweight / shitty dependencies) and C/C++ (too tedious and unsafe).
>Go users write posts like "Why we are moving away from Go"
Yes, like for literally any other language that has some active community and is actually used.
>Apple's version of F# right?
F# is already Microsofts version of OCaml.
>>52039978
That gap is fucking tiny. In what sense is stuff like Java/C# too heavy weight? For what exactly? They are both pretty fucking fast, and have very mature tools sets. C# is probably one of the best languages in the world for productivity, especially in relation to labour pools.
Go is certainly faster than C#, but I'll bet the vast majority of Go projects end up being slower than they would be if they were written in C# because:
Shitty tool suits
limited library support
inexperienced programmers
Difficulty hiring good Go programmers or training existing programmers in Go.
Outright lack of good productivity features in the language compared to Go
All the extra time Go takes to develop, means less time for optimisations or new features. This is where a C# project would over take a Go one in speed alone, Go's only advantage, and a tiny one at that.
>Yes, like for literally any other language that has some active community and is actually used.
yip
>F# is already Microsofts version of OCaml.
not claiming otherwise
>>52040060
Totally agree with you anon. Basically anything which is not in to 5 is either shit tier or its use is limited to a very small subset of applications. Now C# is way better than the 4 languages above it, but they are all cross platform. Java had a lead of many years on top of that. I can bet that in few years, most of the /g/ meme languages will be gone, but Java and C# are here to stay.
>>52033057
Because it was designed by microsoft. Doesn't work on linux, bsd, mac os X, android, or osx without a shitty, buggy, resource intensive, work around.
>>52040633
>Doesn't work on linux, bsd, mac os X, android, or osx
It works great on all of those. It also works on iOS, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox 1, PS Vita and shit tonnes of other stuff.
>without a shitty, buggy, resource intensive, work around.
not remotely true
>>52033057
Visual studio is a clunky piece of shit.
>>52034055
Only on GAC not .exe as well, any suggestions for this? Any idea to use .NET on native code
>>52041025
Mono compiles out to native exe files.
>>52041060
AOT? I havent tried mono shit, does it work correctly for windows?
>>52041151
yep
I believe MS are supporting AOT in the next big .NET release with ASP.NET 5. Which is currently in RC.
>>52034444
quads for truth.
/thread
>>52033057
too low iq tbqh senpai
Because .net took a shit on me and my computer and I can't bother to fix it. Therefore, I don't use C#.
>>52033119
>implying he didnt make a script to do it for him in c#
>>52033389
> closure
> not clojure
> doesn't know the difference between upward funargs and a lisp derivative
>>52037580
lol, because even higher level languages can't be compiled to native code?
>>52033057
Can you fuck off and stop convincing more developers to flood the .NET development industry by learning C#
The reason we get the salaries we do is because good ASP .NET developers and C# developers in general aren't as common as Java devs.
Please stop making these threads.
I'm a spic
:^)
>>52033389
>swing
Is it even possible to use design patterns with Swing?
I never learned java
>>52033889
more greentext like this
Serious post here, I'd really like some constructive criticism or advise instead of bashing, but I know the bashing is part of tough love so I will accept it. I really want to program applications for Windows. I would really like to program applications for Windows Phone in particular. I have like real basic knowledge of Java/JavaScript and HTML. I practically know nothing. Doing some research around I see .NET framework primarily revolves around C#. If I wished to program apps for Windows and Windows phone is C# the only usable language or are other C languages also viable. Also what is the primary difference between C# and other languages and is it better worse or equivalent?
>>52044896
>Java/JavaScript
These are two VERY different languages. Like, not compatible at all.
.NET platform has a few other options - Visual Basic and F# at least. C# is still the biggest, though.
You can program stuff for Windows in a variety of languages, not necessarily .NET-only; WinPhone AFAIU is more limited to .NET stuff indeed.
That said, I have a feeling that WP is on its way out.
If you know some Java (again, NB - NOT Javascript), you could get started with Android, this one is unlikely to go away any time soon.
> Also what is the primary difference between C# and other languages and is it better worse or equivalent?
Tons, depending on the task you're trying to solve.
>>52045106
Sadly, I'm sure that it will take an act of god to keep WP around. Its a shame, I've owned a Galaxy 5, iPhone 5s, and I recently got my hands on a Lumia 950 XL, and I REALLY enjoy this phone. PURE OPINION. So I wanted to use it as a gateway to actually programming useful apps for myself onto it. Pardon my ignorance. What is AFAIU? I tried Googling it didn't find anything off the bat. Honestly not trying to code for money. I'm actually working on Network Administrative positions, but I definitely want to get my hands dirty with programming.
>>52045205
>it will take an act of god to keep WP around
Yeah - so why bother investing time into something that won't be around? Phone maker (Lumia) might switch to Android.
> AFAIU
as far as I understand
> Honestly not trying to code for money
You say it like it's a bad thing :)
Anyway - if you're really stuck with WP, get started with C#.
If you want to go with mobile development, I'd recommend Java for Android.
If you want to just program _something_, you might try Python - it's pretty good for beginners, and is actually used sometimes for sysadmin stuff.
>>52045239
Thanks I'll check out Python. However, as sys admin, working on Win Servers and whatnot, would you find C# of any benefit? If its of benefit there, then I could see myself learning it and applying it to fucking around on my Lumia.
>>52033510
>That literally looks like something for linux in 1997.
I programmed some Java/Swing in 1997. In 1997 it looked like outdated shit.
>>52045275
I'm not sysadmin - doing webdev (Python+JS) right now actually, but briefly worked with C# before. Now that I think about it, using Python for sysadmin stuff applies more to Linux world, sorry if misleading.
Never managed Win servers, so can't say what's of use there. C#, as MS product, _might_ be more useful. Or it might not.
It can definitely be used to develop software for Windows (and is fairly well suited for it), so there's that.
>>52045363
Haha ok. Fair enough. Does anyone have a C# training book they recommend? I swear to god, the most difficult part is figuring out where to start.
>>52045390
I recall I just started reading "Inside C#" - either my future boss or a knowing friend recommended it; worked for me. That was back in 2009 though, so there might be better alternatives now - don't know, didn't actually use it recently.
Poke around/ask around here, there's sure plenty of resources on C#.
Best of luck :)
>>52045430
Thank you! Oh yes there are. I've been following the free MSDN C# videos, but I've always been better at having a book to read and follow and then reinforce the book with online tutorials and videos. Thanks for the recommendation, will check out asap.
Last question, primarily targeted to people who've used C#. If I grab a beginners book on C# that was written in 2009 or before, for example C# 3.0, how outdated is this? Would it still be a viable intro to C# for a beginner or is it not worth studying from something so old? I think C# is at version 6.0 now no? Honestly having difficulty finding anything newer that seems to be GOOD/DECENT for total beginners.
>>52033119
Maybe s/he created the thread in c#. You're not the #est tool in the box, are you?
Dart and swift
Because I'm a stupid lazy retard.
>>52045590
It will be OK. The newer versions have tons of features, but mostly they are for code readability and syntactic sugar etc. You can do an incremental study on the later versions then, like what is new etc.
>>52033057
MOVSX
