FIX THE LAW
As a corporation, Apple, Google, Cisco, etc. are in business to make money for their shareholders.
Voluntarily paying tax they do not legally have to pay is not good business. They are merely exploiting the law to their benefit.
If you do not wish companies to do this, then fix the loophole.
Any company that DOESN'T do this is doing their shareholders a dis-service via either lack of knowledge or lack of financial resources to set the company structure up in this manner.
Companies aren't people. They do not have morals, they exist to provide value to shareholders.
https://web.archive.org/web/20151214072223/http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/10/apple-google-microsoft-hold-more-than-336b-overseas-via-legal-tax-loopholes/
>>51855385
Why would I want them to fix this? I wouldn't have a job if they did.
So our government can spend all that money on stupid shit and still grow further in debt after it spends all that money.
>>51855480
Because apple is spending their money on more useful things than schools, roads, and public services.
The government is extremely wasteful but it's providing services that you want.
>>51855480
>defending apple
wow, rather feed niggers their malt liquor and weed smoke than have apple use it to shit out a shitty bitch phone
men dont use iphones, you faggot
>>51855480
I agree. More companies to hold their funds off shore to legally avoid paying taxes.
>>51855513
I don't see the US gov making the most stylish, technically elite computers and mobile devices on the planet, do you?
>>51855513
>picks the things with the lowest budgets in the US
there are a lot of other choices, and schools don't need it considering they are already fucked.
Honestly I think the US needs to fall soon to know what the fuck it's done wrong.
>>51855480
Imagine a future where Apple had an exclusive monopoly on basic public infrastructure.
>>51855529
We both know you're baiting. Why even bother posting?
>>51855535
Well sure, most of the money goes to defense, or social security, or wall street.
But when wallstreet and the military industrial complex run the government what do you expect?
The problem with the US is not that government is an inherently bad idea, it's just that letting corporations run the government is an inherently bad idea.
I mean the US literally legalised bribery and everyone's like "Oh government is awful, look at all the useless shit they spend the money on"
The 'useless shit' makes the lobbyists and the corporations that hire lobbyists a LOT of money
>>51855563
Why do you care?
>>51855578
>Why do you care about living in a functional society?
Gee, I wonder.
>>>/pol/
This says more about our business laws than the supposed morality of these corporations. The government is retarded. I'm fine with these corporations holding their money to themselves since I know the government will just waste it on "free" bullshit like they have been for the past decade. Throwing money at little Timmy isn't going to get him to graduate from whatever backwater college his ghetto town has. It's more likely to get him to study gender studies or whatever's popular in the liberal arts these days.
>>51855385
>owe 51 BILLION to the US
I think it's the US that's screwed in the head. What would they do with the money anyways? Buy more guns? I rather have Apple use it then the shitty American government.
>>51855385
I wonder what bleeding heart Liberal Applel fags would think if they knew this.
>>51855588
apple has nothing to do with society though.
>>51855700
apple has a lot to do with society
>>51855385
Income Tax is theft. Enforcing the theft doesn't make it right.
Not saying they aren't a bunch of jews though.
>>51855708
>that image
I'm glad robots are replacing people like you.
Learn some fucking skills and stop flipping burgers, oh and stop asking people who make money to give it to you instead.
>>51855713
>Income Tax is theft.
And when corporations dodge their tax so well, income taxes will have to take their slack.
>>51855636
No the problem is that if apple paid tax it would go to the military industrial complex and niggers.
Oh don't forget bankers. Need to bail them out with a trillion dollars.
>>51855713
>Tax is theft
nice opinion bro
>>51855713
Income tax would go down if corporations paid their taxes.
Okay no it wouldn't, realistically, but if the government wasn't run by tax dodgers and 100% corrupt weasels it might.
>>51855732
We don't actually pay that much into the military. Source: Vet buddies. Do you even know what "bailing out" means or are you just spouting buzzwords? I agree with the niggers though.
>>51855742
Do a little reading on the IRS and Federal Reserve. Governments have operated for thousands of years before the need for income tax.
>>51855671
>i rather have apple use it
Use it for what? Sleeping on?
They're holding the money off shore. They can't use it, it's just sitting there gaining interest if anything.
>>51855385
>reported by Citizens for Tax Justice
hmm, let me check out their site
>2016 Presidential Candidates' Plans and Records on Taxes
Yes, I'll click on that
>Clinton has frequently shown a willingness to take a stand for tax fairness...
>Bernie Sanders has one of the strongest records of any elected official when it comes to standing up for tax fairness.
>O’Malley’s was one of only a few governors who championed tax increases to preserve his state’s public investments even during the Great Recession.
Let's see what they say about the Republicans.
>Sen. Rubio’s newest tax deform plan is a much larger version of his gimmicky tax proposals of years past.
>Cruz is a supporter of radical tax plans that would dramatically increase taxes on poor and middle class Americans in order to pay for huge tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.
>Kasich’s economic agenda as a governor and former congressman has been pursuing tax cuts for the wealthy and increasing taxes on low- and middle-income families.
Welp, fuck that that 100% biased source.
>>51855760
Kek, the US government spends like 50% of its money on the military. They do nifty things like lump vet care under different parts so it doesn't look so big, but the spending is enormous. Your vet buddies are misinformed.
>>51855783
It's making a lot of bankers very rich.
I mean, even more rich.
>>51855773
>Governments have operated for thousands of years before the need for income tax.
no they havent you idiot
>>51855863
literally the US was founded because they got buttmad the british were taxing their income
READ A BOOK NIGGER
>>51855480
>Implying that small amount matters
http://www.usdebtclock.org
>>51855875
...no
They were taxing EVERYTHING material that was sold
Not income
I vaguely recall libtards wanting to stick it to big businesses by raising taxes all around. How is this working out for you fellas? Meanwhile they're clamoring to raise minimum wage to $15 dollars an hour. Would any 4 year old like to guess what will follow next?
>>51855875
Britain here
We still haven't forgiven you for dumping tea into the ocean
>>51855863
nigga u dumb?
Income Tax was created by the IRS in 1913.
I think you're confusing all tax with income tax.
>>51855875
>claims governments have operated without any tax for THOUSANDS of years
>gives example with murica, a cunt as old as my grandma
im pretty sure ancient egyptians were taxed, moron, and the 'governemnt' didnt provide any services either.
im curious which government exactly was functioning without any tax income in your macigal basement land, if you can conjure up even one
>>51855881
The scary thing is the official national debt is extremely conservative. It doesn't factor in a lot of things like reserve lending and secret fed bailouts. Some economists estimate it's closer to 100 trillion.
>>51855846
>implying that's not social security and medicare
The government spends 15% at a conservative estimate on military. Vet programs wouldn't fit under military spending either as it is a social service no different from food stamps or the like for qualified individuals.
>>51855783
>>51855852
Still better than helping the goverment spy on their own people. At least give it to NASA or some shit.
>>51855935
First off, you assumed those posts were the same person, they're not.
Second, and why do I have to keep clarifying this, I said INCOME tax. Not all tax. Obviously tax has existed since money has existed, but income tax is a very new concept, created in tandem with our modern central banking system.
>>51855385
Tax loopholes are not technology related.
>>51855998
>Still better than helping the goverment spy on their own people.
How? I mean, they're doing that as well.
But I agree, Apple should give it to NASA. The only problem I see is that if they actively funded NASA then they would probably start dictating shit NASA is doing, which would probably turn NASA into an advertisement for them.
>lets make all our astronauts wear apple watches!
>lets put imacs on the ISS!
>>51855984
These things also cost lots of money.
Medicare money all goes to pharma companies, medical bipbop maker companies (the guys who make medical devices) and health insurers. All then take this money and spend it on lobbying for more money.
Legalised bribery was a REALLY bad idea. Founding fathers should have been less worried about 'the people' just voting themselves more money and more worried about organisations bribing themselves more money.
As for social security... that's something people want. When you get old and no longer able to work you want to know that you're not going to immediately die in poverty.
And of course the money mostly goes to various companies who provide administration and nigger outreach programs.
>>51855998
Actually one benefit for funding the NSA is it keeps hard drive prices low.
Okay that's not enough of a benefit but I mean really what do you expect when you create an organisation whose job is to stop something? As soon as they stop it their job is gone. Nice organisation.
But I mostly agree- but up to a point. Apple should INVEST the money. Into anything, it doesn't matter. Even investing it into more yachts and HIV medication, at least the money goes somewhere. Some guy has to build that yacht to feed his family.
Hell, they could even fund their own space program. Just spend it on something.
>>51855385
>Voluntarily paying tax they do not legally have to pay is not good business.
It's also a good way to get sued.
They are responsible to the shareholders to maximise the returns on the investments the shareholders have made. It's in their job contract.
>>51856046
>When you get old and no longer able to work you want to know that you're not going to immediately die in poverty.
I know this is a thorny issue but I always wonder what the ethical reason is for supporting things like SS and Medicare. I mean, I understand from a purely self interest perspective it makes sense to want a system in place where no matter how much of a fuck up you've been for 60, 65, or 70 years, the government is still there to take care of you, I've just never really been able to get behind it myself.
And I'm not some Randian social Darwinist either. I believe we should have a robust social safety net, I just think it should be front loaded. Essentially have a guaranteed welfare state starting at birth with benefits slowly decreasing over time until you hit 60-65 and then you're on your own.
>>51856046
>more worried about organisations bribing themselves more money.
Aren't these organization just voicing the will of their members? Isn't this pretty much synonymous will the "will of the people"?
>>51856012
>but income tax is a very new concept, created in tandem with our modern central banking system.
In the UK income tax was brought in by William Pitt the younger, as a temporary measure, to fund some war or other. It was only levied on the very rich.
Naturally, being a temporary measure, and its purpose completed a century or more ago, the tax still lives.
>>51856110
So you're proposing to help out people who could still get a job and then stop giving them money as soon as they're too old to look after themselves? Brilliant plan.
What of people who were functioning members of society, worked hard all their lives and then due to bad luck or whatever lost everything at age 60? They'd be pretty fucked.
>>51855385
I seen this post on Reddit too op
>>51855385
Why does US government feels entitled to tax stuff happening in other countries?
>>51855863
Henry Addington 1803.
>>51855385
Corporations gain a great number of benefits for incorporating in the US ranging from numerous (last I checked the most) treaties to enforce corporate interests to the smallest shareholder's rights being protected.
This is bullshit by corporations trying to game the system.
>>51855713
This isn't income tax you daft bastard.
>>51856390
>Why does US government feels entitled to tax stuff happening in other countries?
Because they're incorporated in the US and basically launder money oversees.
>>51856475
Why should corporation not be allowed to be located in multiple countries?
>>51856483
Why shouldn't a corporation that is located in multiple countries abide by the tax laws of all the countries it abides in?
>>51856483
I don't think he's arguing that corporations cannot be located in multiple countries but that operating within a country, and even especially incorporated within a country, they should follow the laws of that country.
Why should the US provide access to courts to Apple for them to sue Samsung if Apple doesn't pay their taxes?
>>51856492
It should. Only not all of its property should be taxed, but just those bits located in that country.
>>51856390
all they're doing is moving their wealth to another location to avoid it being taxed like every one else
they didn't make that wealth in that country otherwise ireland would be a fucking superpower
>>51856368
Like I said, its a difficult issue but yes, in general that's what I'm proposing.
Right now almost all of our social spending is geared towards the later stages of life. I would much rather see the vast majority of this spending go towards early childhood development and then gradually trail off with adulthood.
>>51856368
>So you're proposing to help out people who could still get a job
Children shouldn't be getting jobs so no, that's not what I'm proposing.
>>51856559
It seems sensible. Is USA forcing its subjects to keep wealth within the country?
>>51856507
That's part of the problem though.
Nowdays being outside of the country hardly inhibits the ability to work within the country.
We are only looking at one side of this, Apple cheating the US tax system, but what is really going on is that Apple is cheating multiple countries' tax systems to increase profits.
And, sure, it's not only Apple, but Apple is the 800billion dollar company.
>>51856368
>What of people who were functioning members of society, worked hard all their lives and then due to bad luck or whatever lost everything at age 60? They'd be pretty fucked.
They certainly would be. Of course, kids born into poverty are pretty fucked as well. It's unlikely that we'll ever reach a point of unlimited social spending so we're going to have to make choices on how to allocate the limited funds, I would much rather it go towards the young than old.
Also, I generally believe that if we put the proper emphasis on childhood development and making sure that people truly had the opportunity to make the most out of theirs lives, regardless of the shitty circumstances into which they were born, we would have far fewer cases of people simply getting "unlucky" later in life. Not to say no such cases would occur, but they would probably be less widespread.
I also tend to really dislike the notion that b/c someone has worked "hard" for a long period of time they are somehow more deserving of society's largess. I firmly believe that the vast majority, possibly even all, people end up taking more from the world/society than they contribute to it. This doesn't make us bad, just pointing out that we all rely on others to a tremendous degree and most of us will never pay back this "debt". In this case, I would argue that the longer one lives the more they have taken from the world, regardless of whether they have also made contributions, and thus there is no ethical argument in favor of allocating even more resources for the benefit of the old.
>>51855385
>being a dumb socialist cunt with zero understanding of economics
it's not a fucking loophole, it's avoiding theft by government.
>>51855895
they are still taxing everything you stupid fuck. now they are also taxing your income.
>>51856573
What is US taxing even? It's not sales, because I'm sure those are still being taxed.
>>51855385
Big American companies bully their way out of paying their taxes in my country. We're allies in NATO, why do you shit on your friends 'corporate america'? Apple and Google are two great examples. We lose literally billions.
>>51856581
Yeah you sound like a real wiz
>>51856619
>We're allies in NATO
Tell you what, I'll give a shit about American companies cheating NATO allies out of taxes when said NATO allies start pulling their own weight when it comes to defense.
>>51855513
I never wanted that shitty public education, or those shit magnet welfare program or those too big to fail bail out or those isis funding from the tax payers.
Big fucking surprise, Apple amazon etc are all making loss in every country they earn money except in Luxembourg. They are doing this for years
Everyone who got surprised by this headline should hang himself because you all should know this
>>51856643
>defense
Wouldent need much if you assholes would stop training fucking terrorist groups all the god damn time.
>>51855529
Are you fucking blind, do you think all this backdoors for the government appear out of nowhere?
>>51856571
>make money of a country's citizens
>move earnings out of the country so they aren't taxed like said citizens own wealth and expenditure on the company's products
Yeah it's totally fair what was I thinking.
>>51856743
>would stop training fucking terrorist groups all the god damn time.
Yeah, but what a boring place the world would be then.
Besides, the shit situation in the ME and North Africa is as much the fault of European colonialism and meddling as it is America's schizophrenic foreign policy.
Also, what is Russia?
>>51856785
It is... It's your money. You earned it. You didn't lease it - you don't need to give it back to government at some point. You own it.
>>51856791
Russia is just trying to liberate ukraine
I guess sorta like the US wants to liberate oil
>>51856814
Oil should belong to its citizens.
>>51856814
>Russia is just trying to liberate ukraine
I agree. I hope they push westward and liberate Germany and France as well.
>>51856797
>it's ok for corporations to not have to play by the same rules as everyone else in the country because I disagree with the rules to begin with
this is you
>>51856914
My point is I disagree with rules. I did not explicitly mention corporations in any of my posts.
>>51856932
>I did not explicitly mention corporations in any of my posts.
You didn't need to EXPLICITLY mention corporations - look at the fucking thread subject.
>>51856956
So do you agree then that rules are broken and government is effectively stealing? Your only argument is "it's a law, obey", the way I see it.
>>51856981
No my argument, that only someone as dense as yourself couldn't see, is that the corporations aren't playing by the same rules as everyone else regardless of how broken the system is and are only able to do so because they wield power derived from their massive wealth. I didn't make any argument for or against the system.
>>51857009
>I didn't make any argument for or against the system.
Then you need not respond to me. I am only talking about the system.
>>51856125
They're voicing the will of the shareholders. Do you own shares?
Shareholders are a tiny minority of the country but they hold most of the representation.
One irony about this situation is that they bribe themselves into lower taxes, gaining more representation with less taxation.
Although this is more of 'no representation without taxation' than 'no taxation without representation' that I'm putting across, but whatever.
>>51856692
The services are pretty bad. But imagine if the people who use the services and pay for them are the ones who actually have representation in government and not the corporations. Something might get done about it.
But you try and do something radical like fire bad teachers and the union lobby interjects "Nope best not do that if you like our money".
Something that more americans need to understand about legislators and politicians is that 99% of their time is spent gathering money for their next campaign. Very little time is actually spent on running the country.
In my view the corporations are leeches, not the welfare niggers.
The corporations use the roads but dodge the taxes to pay for them. They employ people who are educated by the school systems they dodge funding. (While the school systems need fixing, they won't get fixed without fixing the corruption first). The police and law enforcement agencies that insure that their warehouses don't get looted, their stores don't get robbed and that their business can be fairly free of scammers and low to mid level embezzlers keep their business running. The police runs on taxes. (And of course they buy second hand military hardware from the military industrial complex- lobbied for of course.)
>>51857313
>Something that more americans need to understand about legislators and politicians is that 99% of their time is spent gathering money for their next campaign.
Senators are less affected by the campaign cycle as Congressmen are.
>>51855972
No one cares though, debt is intrinsically related to diplomatic and economic weight. I mean, who the fuck is going to embargo the USA?
>>51855513
>Because apple is spending their money on more useful things than schools, roads, and public services.
Like the gay parade and employing women! What would we ever do without them?
>>51855385
Jeb will fix it
http://www.jebbush.com > positions > tax reform
>>51857313
>The services are pretty bad. But imagine if the people who use the services and pay for them are the ones who actually have representation in government and not the corporations. Something might get done about it.
Tell me how government lower the price of computers every year or make sure we don't over pay for our internet services or have to get insurance that accept sick people...
I'm sure corps have more incentives to get things done than the government.
>>51855385
If they're international they still pay tax, it's just that the US has a high corporate tax rate so naturally anyone big enough would try to move shit to Ireland or something.
Why try to force an issue with "morals" when you can just lower the tax and make it less likely for them to leave?
Also, I don't want Google to go out of business so i don't mind them keeping this money overseas.
