Fusion reactor
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
>Germany fires up new fusion reactor
>what is the Wendelstein 7-X?
see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-fbBRAxJNk
First successful test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVpm-u7fnw#t=2394
http://news.sciencemag.org/physics/2015/10/feature-bizarre-reactor-might-save-nuclear-fusion
Wow who cares, America has like 300 nuclear plants more than the entire world combined
Why are the magnetic containment rings deformed and not circular?
>>51787546
Fusion reactor is not a nuclear plant.
>>51787569
read the article.
>>51787546
you are a fucking retard.
What does it do?
>>51787546
murricans, everyone
>>51787611
makes big onion rings
>>51787611
it helps you to install gentoo.
>>51787507
JA IT MAKES ZE MANY ENERGIE
>>51787611
allows you to bypass the unit limit and create more migrants
>>51787611
Smashes atoms together, fusing them, creating energy out of thin air. That energy is then used to ? and the result is turbines spin and electricity, boom.
fuck this board
>actual technology breakthrough
>/g/ can only shitpost about memes
>>51787611
Crashes atoms into each other to create bigger atoms and release energy. The energy can be harnessed to power stuff.
>>51787611
Allow Miss Merkel to control the world.
Hopefully you Germans do it right the third time so you can finally rid us of the plague that is jews and niggers and muslims.
>>51787546
>not knowing the difference between fission and fusion..
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Nuclear_Fission_vs_Nuclear_Fusion
>>51787648
>no_fun_allowed.jpg
>>51787569
If it were simply a circle then the density of mass near the center would be greater than at the outer edge, as the distance between rings would increase.
The shape of the ring ensures that an equal amount of force is exerted on the plasma at any point in space.
>>51787624
>>51787629
>>51787643
>>51787657
>>51787663
>Fission reaction does not normally occur in nature.
It does though. Extremely rarely, but it does.
>>51787507
This isn't technology, it isn't related to smartphones, desktops, graphic cards, fizzbuzz, home screen, or any REAL tech
>>51787700
>any real tech
i can guarantee you'll change your mind when this shit is powering your house.
>>51787740
That was sarcasm, which you clearly failed to understand
Certainly hope they're right about the precision being adequate. If this thing gets fucked up when they turn it on stellerators will be dead forever.
If it turns out to be much better than tokamaks then all that funding and time put into ITER is worthless.
>>51787755
it's called being a derailing dick fucking over the discussion of possibly the best energy production method we have, not sarcasm.
Is cold fusion still being researched or is it impossible voodoo magic shit?
>>51787791
still being researched, but that's far away still.
>>51787791
every single "solution" to it has simply been the result of shit peer review and shit research practices. it may happen in the future but it's sure as fuck not happening now
>>51787794
>>51787799
Well at least it's still theoretically possible. I want to believe
Is it finally happening? Is everyone BTFO? I really want to believe.
Why don't they just use fission reactions to trigger fusion reactions, like in hydrogen bombs?
Jesus Christ.
>>51787766
I think you and everyone else would be happier if you moved to reddit.
>>51787842
Because the whole point is an energy source without the dangers of fission
what's this shit doing on my /g/
>>>/sci/
This is fucking insane. They're trying to contain a fucking hydrogen bomb in a reactor plant. Are they trying to blow up Germany to pieces?
>>51787977
Get the fuck out you fucking cancer.
How many Fermi's do you need for a fission reactor?
>>51787977
Well it looks like it worked.
it's only a plasma containment test
>>51787999
3x 512 SP GF100's were used for this project.
They were extremely difficult and hazardous to transport.
>>51787847
>100.000.000C
>>51787694
>normally
>>51787925
Get fucked with your shitty bait.
>>51788023
Wait how the fuck do they heat up the hydrogen gas so much? Just applied a high current electrical charge or did they use lasers or some shit?
>>51788095
They probably make it spin really fucking fast.
>>51788095
microwaves
Neutral beam injection
>>51787657
third time's a charm
>>51788022
Containment for the plasma worked. There was never a fusion reaction in that reactor.
>>51787546
>99 is more than 338
>not knowing the difference between fusion and fission
>>51787847
Yep, this monstrosity of a device is so cool.
It's like LHC porn all over again. Different devices, but same high tech feels...
>>51788214
> 338
You have a typo there, no? I think it should be 438 as of some point this year.
ITT: things only white men can build
>>51788214
Yeah, Fission is safe and can be more easily controlled. Fusion is extremely dangerous and can easily turn a reactor into a fucking hydrogen bomb.
>mfw harnessing the power of stars to shitpost on an anonymous vietnamese basket weaving forum
>>51788259
>mfw after mastering the power of the stars, we take it one step further and do what they do ice cold
>>51788319
>cold fusion
Stop believing in fairy tales anon.
>>51788255
is it opposite day?
>>51788335
Let me dream to calm down the despair.
>>51788238
438 is all reactors. ~338 is all reactors outside the US.
>>51788319
Right now, that is not working.
This is about very hot, but also cleverly magnetically contained fusion.
>>51788353
Accepted & admitting fault - I guess "the entire world combined" in that context would actually mean without the USA.
>>51788346
>hippy liberal douche proclaiming the dangers of fission because of some island nobody cares about had a bad time over a hundred years ago
Wait I'm scarred. If this reactor did successfully contain a fusion reaction, is there a chance the reactor could become a hydrogen bomb due to a computer virus or something?
>>51788521
no, they only use hdmi cables with internal anti-virus
>>51788346
Fusion reactors have never actually fucking worked. All OP showed was containment of hot plasma not a fusion reaction. We don't know all the things that could go wrong in a fusion reactor. It's possible it could turn into a hydrogen bomb.
>>51788521
nope, the thing is made to contain the plasma no matter what, by the shape and the magnets, meaning a computer is not in charge of containment.
>>51788559
>never actually fucking worked
yet. and that's what progression and scientific breakthrough like in the OP comes into play.
>>51788521
Simply not possible. If something goes wrong with the magnetic containment, the plasma's density falls off a cliff, and the reaction stops. At most it will damage the vacuum vessel. There'd be more damage from the cryogenic coolant suddenly vaporizing than from the plasma escaping.
>>51787853
This is stupid. Reddit is a forum, not an image board. It and 4chan each fulfill different functions. Thats like saying "you seem unhappy with that sofa, maybe you'd like to use a bookshelf instead"
>>51788559
>Fusion reactors have never actually fucking worked.
Define "work".
There is fusion taking place, but it takes more energy than it produces.
However in France they are now building a reactor that should produce more energy than it consumes.
>>51788722
I think he means could operators purposely turn it into a hydrogen bomb if they wanted to?
Maybe by suddenly injecting a big amount of fuel?
>>51788797
No, the amount of fuel used is way too small to cause any damage no anything but the reactor itself.
>>51788797
What would be the benefit of doing so, though? Germany invested a great deal of money into this reactor.
>>51788797
Again no, the containment fields can only handle so much plasma at the required densities to fuse at any given time, and theres a fairly delicate balance that must be maintained. Too little fuel, fusion wont work. Too much fuel, plasma cant be heated enough for fusion to take place, reactor wont start.
>>51788814
Again, we're talking TERRORISM not accidents.
Would operator Mohamed be able to wage Jihad by, say, bumping the fuel injection rate 100 times the normal dose?
>>51788836
>What would be the benefit of doing so, though?
72 virgins
Death to the infidels.
etc.
>>51788521
it's protected by GUI protectors written in Visual basic so no worries there anon
>>51788874
Probably no one on /g/ knows the answer to your funny questions and to me it sounds like it would be easier to get hold of a normal atomic bomb if you wanted to do such a thing.
>>51788046
it does all the time
all around us
>>51788046
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor
quite normal
>>51788874
You can break the device if you operate it poorly, and maybe get some of the people on site.
That's +- all that will happen.
Also, pissed off Germans = not a good plan, especially if ~the rest of Europe including Russia and the USA isn't going to bother to stop them.
>>51788722
>There'd be more damage from the cryogenic coolant suddenly vaporizing
you shouldn't underestimate the amount of damage this could to.
>>51788955
The fusion reaction releases neutrons right? What would happen if it released too many (ie plasma was overheated)? Could an excessive amount of free neutrons cause a reaction akin to that of a hydrogen bomb? Are you sure a fusion reactor has 0% chance of turning into a hydrogen bomb no matter how it's tampered with?
Please forgive my ignorance but as far as I understand hydrogen bombs work by releasing an assload of neutrons which cause a reaction and then, boom.
>>51787507
Deutschland über alles.
>>51789081
What kind of device are you going to build around this reactor to result in sufficient immediate neutron bombardment to create gazillions of fusion reactions immediately and lead to a bigger explosion?
And why wouldn't you just point it at anything else on earth, or the Sun, if you could do *that*?
>>51788521
>>51788797
>>51788874
>>51789081
>>>/tv/
>>>/b/
>>>/sci/
>>>/out/
No one can be THIS uneducated.
>>51787694
I guess i referst to a chain reaction, rather then to random breackdowns of atoms
>>51787756
From what I get stellarators where never meant to be used to efficently create energy anyway. It just shoud prove that it is possible to keep plasma stable for a longer time. The actual fusion will take place at ITER.
>>51789081
Don't listen to these hippies, a fusion reactor can become a hydrogen bomb if tampered with. All they have to do is force reactions to take place for more than a few minutes under extra hot plasma. This could in theory set of an atomic explosion.
>>51787847
Looks like a device straight out of a si-fi fiction
>>51789232
source: big guy for you movie
>>51787847
holy shit nice
>>51787507
>posting thumnails
>>51789249
>a si-fi fiction
>>51789258
How do you know an excessive amount of protons and heat won't take place? That's all that's needed to trigger a chain reaction right? You already have nvudia fermi-grade temperatures ibside that reactor, you just need more neutrons.
>>51789232
>he doesn't understand how fine tuned these machines are
>he doesn't understand the plasma has to be a specific temperature to be sustained
>he doesn't understand shit loads of fresh fuel aren't stored at nuclear sites at one time
>>51789053
Im aware of the effects of a BLEVE and how much damage it'd do. The advantage here though is that cryogenic helium doesnt turn into a fuel-air bomb once the critical point is reached.
Worst case scenario the reactor device gets ripped apart and floods the core room with vaporizing cryogenic coolant, and maybe the structural integrity of the roof gets compromised burying the room in debris.
>>51789081
The fusion reaction in a nuke and the fusion reaction in the WX-1 are 2 massively different beasts.
A fusion nuke (Teller-Ulam design) requires a low yield fission bomb as the trigger (usually less than 10kt). This in turn flash-heats the supporting material inside the device (usually some sort of foam) into a plasma. This expanding plasma fills the nuke and surrounds the secondary (which is usually made of either lead or Uranium-235 and cored with the fusion fuel), compressing it.
This in turn heats and compresses the fusion fuel, a specific blend of various light isotopes (deuterium/tritium mix as well as Lithium-6) that release neutrons on fusion, to the ignition point. The core goes off, releasing a fuckton of heat and neutrons, compressing the tamper further. If made of lead, most of the energy in the secondary is the fusion reaction. If made of uranium, the neutrons cause the now super-critical mass of uranium to undergo fission, which in turn explodes as a nuke does and greatly increases the final yield of the device. (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon )
A fusion reactor on the otherhand uses a combination of strong microwaves and magnetic fields to heat and compress the plasma to the point where fusion becomes possible. Neutrons are released, yes, but there is nothing in the reactor wall that is suitable for a fission reaction (iron is too tightly bound for anything other than a supernova to affect it, and it consumes energy when involved in such a reaction), and shutdown is as simple as cutting the heating beam off.
>>51788727
you seem to be more interested in arguing than posting images so reddit would be perfect
kek, it seems this thread is full of nuclear physicists who got their Phds on the wikipedia
>>51787842
Because it's igniting nuclear bombs is an impractical way of producing electricity.
>>51787860
Not the whole point, scarcity of fissile is another point.
>>51789595
>Because it's igniting nuclear bombs is an impractical way of producing electricity.
for now
>>51787611
Fuses illegal syrians to make energy; it's basically next level jew gassing.
![fe0bed0883e8deb12deca87598eefa2c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BulBUZW.jpg "fe0bed0883e8deb12deca87598eefa2c[1].jpg")
>>51787546
>fission/fusion
>same thing
also
>implying your plants are more advanced than this one
nice try
>>51787657
thanks for not listing mexicans in there with them. I want to see what the future is like and want to bang white women.
![StellaratorConstruction672[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lkmINDA.jpg "StellaratorConstruction672[1].jpg")
I don't understand anything about fusion/fission, but god damn this machine looks am,azing!
>>51787766
Nah son i'm pretty sure it was sarcasm
>>51787766
you're pretty fun at parties, aren't you?
>>51787507
Oh look, another sensationalist science experiment with costs up into billions yet it will never yield any valuable technology spin-offs.
pic related; same story as that
>>51789923
yeah, we should give the money to niggers so they can buy iphones and multiply faster.
>>51789953
The result is ... actually... pretty much the same, yeah.
I do like how it never crosses your mind to just return the money to the taxpayer.
>compound twisting magnetic fields
This shit is voodoo. You can't explain that.
>>51789983
>The result is ... actually... pretty much the same, yeah.
just stop posting
>>51789923
Shit, that's pretty useful. Just because you don't find a use for it, it doesn't meant it's meaningless.
How the fuck is /g/ the most scientifically illiterate board on 4chan?
>>51790043
It's /v/ but with smartphones and FizzBuzz Python scripts.
>>51790043
you don't learn science in CS class or mum's basement.
>>51790043
/pol/ native here
the threads about that on /pol/ were so much better than this one
we had a thread with 700+ posts and you struggle to get 50 posts, lmao
>>51790043
/g/ is made up of the /v/ users that were too stupid to put a computer together. This board is damn near useless now and the faggots in this thread don't help much because whenever something interesting is posted they immediately try to derail the thread.
Why is germany so based?
Is it because of Merkel?
>>51790170
I know, I was in it.
>>51790170
BUILD IT
>>51790183
I bet the guys here didn't even livestream it..talk about interest in technology...
>>51789923
A shit ton of new technologies, as in manufacturing it, and operating it was created by just building the thing. Even before it was turned on. Kinda like the space program, didn't really give us anything useful, right? Couple of moon rocks, a flag up there... Nothing useful at all. Except all the fucking technological leaps we made meanwhile. Stfu.
>>51789436
Happy now? I posted a picture of you.
>>51790206
/sci/ didn't even seem to care.
There was one thread, but it was pretty dead until /pol/ came in.
>>51790043
thanks to flogens, he made gee the default board when opening clover
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJpSrqitSMQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqt6u5_sHA
>>51790209
>not knowing what the term technology spin-off means
But the Japs already did this in 1998 with Large Helical Device (LHD).
>>51790535
Creating a singular plasma burst in a particle accelerator is not the same as proof of function in a device that creates a stream of plasma for an extended duration to harness power from a fusion reaction.
>>51787847
Yeah, the plasma containment stuff in stellarators definitely looks cooler than the one in tokamaks. But at least ITER is huge.
I wish that based ass tripfag from /k/ could be here.
What's his name? Oppenheimer?
I for one welcome our German overlords..
They're intelligent, civilized and not keked up like anglosphere
>>51790535
they plan to test it in a continuous run for 30 minutes
>>51791445
>and not keked up like anglosphere
>>51787596
Uhm, how to explain...
It is. and in the long term it is supposed to deliver electric power.
But isn't that ironical?
ITER, the development of the fusion reactor is still slowed down.
It's an international experience but even if german scientists are involved, they are pointing their finger at France, because nuclear means bad for these gays.
Germany yells at France for using nuclear power. EU ecologists support them.
Germany purchase nuclear-made terawatts to French company EDF. Every year.
Germany brags about their low emissions on every fucking EU forum
And now this. They are making their own fusion reactor.
Behold that hypocrisy anon...
>>51791542
> It is.
No, it isn't what any reasonable person understands when they hear nuclear plant. It shares none of the problems that fission has, problems that were the reason for Germany's stance.
>>51791542
>tripfag
opinion discarded
>>51787507
>Melde dich an, um dieses Video anzusehen
yeah fuck you too youtube and content creator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kPM1J-F0Q
Watch it faggots
>>51787847
Holy shit that looks cool as fuck.
I wonder if once they finish the heat testing with helium if it will produce a positive net energy when they use H.
Anyone still here?
>>51792149
Seems only some are able to access 4chan at all
>>51792164
If you leave a thread or refresh you can't get back.
>>51792164
It's possible to post and read with clover
If ITER fails we will not see fusion in our lifetime.
>>51792172
All thread i have open are at page 8...
>>51792172
Works for me, even switching between threads and boards
>>51792177
Strange, jumping between int and g
>>51792198
Are you using clover?
What country are you in?
>>51792217
Not him but i'm from Italy and Clover works. On desktop not...
>>51788434
>>51788559
>fission is gud enuf guys let's just stick with that
Not sure if trolling or legitimately retarded
>>51792217
Norway
Will an hiro let us know about this?
>>51792249
Hiro only bought it to sell user info
>>51792264
No 4chan, no user info... will he buy 7chan?
>>51791542
>tripfags speaking about things they don't know shit about
wow I'm once again really surprised for sure that absolutely never happens.
>>51792282
4Chan has user info m8
anyone here?
>>51790170
>we had a thread with 700+ posts and you struggle to get 50 posts, lmao
but most of that thread was just terrible shitposting about german refugees
>>51790224
Of to Reddit with you
>>51788046
Spontaneous fission
>>51791542
fusion doesnt produce radioactive waste you fucking idiot
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Fusion, is in fact, GNUclear-Death/Fusion, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNUclear-Death plus Fusion. Fusion is not an energy generating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNUclear-Death system made useful by the GNU atomlibs, neutron utilities and vital holocaust components comprising a full doomsday-scenario as defined by SATAN.
>>51793088
This desu, if I'm not entirely wrong it's helium they use, and they end up with just water?. But still, it should produce way more power than the normal nuclear plants
Could this be used for faster than light travel?
>after 1.1 million hours of construction
That's over 125 years.
Expressing the cumulative time for the construction of every part is kind of odd.
>>51793306
Hydrogen isotopes (Deuterium, Tritium) fuse to Helium.
At least in this type of reactors.
>>51793337
No.
>>51793348
Adding the manhours is actually quite common for such large scale projects.
>>51793337
>>51793509
That's pretty neat, are they planning to sustain it for longer periods of time?
>>51791993
>cool as fuck
quite the contrary, actually.
>>51793588
This was just a test run, to make sure that, yes, it can in fact heat and hold a plasma. There's still some work that needs to be done, but first fusion should be sometime this January.
>>51789923
Apart from putting Europe at the forefront of science, mega-experiments like the LHC, EELT or now the W7X generate billions of € of growth from spin-off startups and technology transfer programmes. It's not by accident that most US space probes use EU-built optics or detectors, for instance.
When fusion will be ready, Europe will have a substantial lead over the rest of the world to produce and sell the technology. And I think it's great news that such long-term plans can be enacted.
>>51793376
>Hydrogen isotopes (Deuterium, Tritium) fuse to Helium.
They fuse into Helium4 which is unstable, then after a short while that decays into Helium3 and releases a neutron and a small amount of energy. Neutrons are not stable when left alone so the resulting neutron will eventually decay into a proton and an electron and create hydrogen(protium)
>>51789174
>I guess i referst to a chain reaction, rather then to random breackdowns of atoms
That happens rarely as well.
>>51794878
No wait I'm dumb they fuse and during the process they create helium4 which is stable and release a neutron.
>>51788319
Cold fusion can never work with our understanding of physics, and heres why: as the two atoms you would like to fuse get closer, the repelling forces get higher. The only way to get those atoms closer to each other, is by increasing ones energy, which can be done through heat or momentum. Once the atom has a high enough energy, it will be able to quantum tunnel onto the other atom, but it cannot get close enough for quantum tunnelling to be enough, without having the energy from a retardedly high temperature.
>>51789790
I'm not sure if it's a sign that I'm too drunk or too interested in this but seeing that piece of equipment being made versus what it looks like in the final product just made me make noises of excitement.
>>51790170
>700+ posts
>nothing of quality
Yeah man, we could own 500 tons of pure cow shit but why
>>51795139
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion
>>51795206
>"To create useful room-temperature muon-catalyzed fusion (...) and/or a way for each individual muon to catalyze many more fusion reactions.
While yes, you were technically correct, i meant with my post that it would never become a source of energy
>>51794708
If you yurops get fusion going before the US can I just come over? I'm pretty smart and should have a computer engineering degree by then, and my German is understandable.
>>51795206
>Current techniques for creating large numbers of muons require large amounts of energy, larger than the amounts produced by the catalyzed nuclear fusion reactions. This prevents it from becoming a practical power source. Moreover, each muon has about a 1% chance of "sticking" to the alpha particle produced by the nuclear fusion of a deuterium with a tritium, removing the "stuck" muon from the catalytic cycle, meaning that each muon can only catalyze at most a few hundred deuterium tritium nuclear fusion reactions.
Senpai, read what you post before you post it.
>>51795598
>>51795244
The post was worded in a way that made it seem impossible so I was just providing an example of it working(albeit in a very limited manner). The fact that we don't presently have a way to acquire enough muons or keep them from binding to free alpha particles doesn't mean the process doesn't doesn't work.
>>51795664
Do you know much about muons? We're not going to produce them reasonably cheaply or efficiently. Like, until we have successful sources of fusion energy.
We need a way to bust into the energy revolution, then we can try optimizing it like that.
>>51787507
>designed by a supercomputer
>20 years ago
Well if it works then the good news is that it will be a lot less expensive to design the next ones.
>>51795856
The whole time I'm reading and learning more about the project, I'm thinking this.
Designed 20 years ago. I'm sure as fuck we can start from scratch now and get a better design.
>>51795856
20 years ago, well could almost guess my setup is better eh?
SLI GTX 660 Ti and fast i7 should do the job
768 CUDA cores x2, 1536 CUDA cores.
1995,
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