So, is DDR4 a meme or is it worth spending a bit extra on Skylake? Will DDR3 become dogshit in a couple of years making Haswell obsolete?
>>51616739
Currently, memory speeds even at 1600 MHz are not a bottleneck unless you're doing some really ridiculous workstation tasks. Hell, some people are still gaming on a Q6600 and using DDR2 and not running into issues.
I don't think DDR3 is a problem at all unless you're building a workstation/server machine.
>>51616739
http://wccftech.com/fallout-4-performance-heavily-influenced-by-ram-speed-according-to-report/
There are cheap 4000mhz ddr4 kits now. ddr3 is obsolete.
>>51616782
>using a beshitsa-game for any kind of benchmark or comparison
no.
>>51616821
Even if it's a poorly optimized pile, it does show better performance with better ram. Maybe in a couple years we'll see a mass shift to ddr4. Best to invest now.
>>51616782
>Essentially, when the CPU is the bottleneck, faster RAM can provide an often dramatic increase in performance.
Well there you go, if you're getting a lower end CPU that you think will become your bottleneck in the future, then faster RAM could be beneficial, otherwise it really doesn't matter.
>mfw got a 6600k on black friday from Microcenter for less than the regular price of an I5-4690k
It's slightly better for everyday usage, but if we're talking heavy workloads it's a pretty noticeable improvement. Skylake is a pretty noticeable upgrade too.
There is literally no benefit from going to DDR4 if you use a dedicated GPU. Dual channel 1600MHz DDR3 already transfers at a blistering 25.6GB/s.
Only APUs benefit from faster RAM and if you use intel chips it's because you're not dirt poor and also bought a dedicated GPU. Keep in mind gen 3 x16 pci-express has 16GB/s of bandwidth which is significantly slower even compared to dual channel 1333 MHz RAM (21.3GB/s).
>>51617545
>Skylake is a pretty noticeable upgrade too.
I love this meme.
>>51617629
what does the "number of samples" section mean?
>>51617312
>Best to invest now.
By the time it becomes a meaningful bottleneck your system will be up for a total upgrade anyway if that really matters to you.
>>51617649
number of chips tested
>>51616739
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ePJLHhrAUMZFBnc05TLUZMYzg/view?pli=1
Its not about just memory speed its about cas latency too. Essentially if your ram responds slower but works faster it could end up being the same as ram that responds faster but works slower. The above is a table that compares memory frequency to cas latency and the responsiveness in nanoseconds you should get.
Went with Skylake a while back because it seemed like a good idea. Running 2*8GB DDR4 sticks and I see roughly the same performance I got when I was running Sandybridge with 4*4GB DDR3 sticks.
>>51617732
That's because ram faster than DC ddr3 @ 1333mhz gives you literally 0 benefits especially if you don't use the iGPU.
Congrats you fell for the ddr4 meme.
>>51616779
this is not entirely true.
True statement would be something like "In GPU bound games RAM doesn't make much difference.".
CPU bound games get a benefit from faster RAM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-7bfPG2dE
The whole idea behind DDR4 is that it uses less power and can achieve much higher frequencies than anticipated.
So basically, even the engineers are telling you that DDR4 is the memory of future, not now.
>>51617763
>Implying meme
Might as well say that everything is a meme. Now it has no meaning, faggot.
>>51617693
CAS latency doesn't really do anything for everyday use of ram. As long as you have a single stick of 1333 MHz of RAM you're pretty much set for RAM if you use a dedicated GPU.
>>51616739
No hbm sticks are the future
>>51617794
It means jack shit outside of use for an iGPU which would benefit more from 128GB/s HBM than slow 3,200mhz ddr4 housefires.
>>51617879
that makes no sense because the point of hbm is that the dram is located physically next to the die of the cpu/gpu
>>51617693
I'll post this pic as well to show the relation ship between the memory frequency and cas timings.
You'll also notice a correlation in price if you been shopping recently.
>>51617828
Your right the difference between 9.8ns and 10ns are marginal but its helpful to know if your in the marketplace. As well as not being suckered in to buying higher memory frequency with no performance gains.
>>51617879
This. But only for iGPUs. HBM is too fast and expensive to replace regular 1600-2133mhz dual channel ram configs for non iGPU use.
What's an iGPU, anyway?
Internal? As in integrated?
>>51618015
Integrated. It's the shitty intel hd graphic processors inside i5/i7 chips or the R7 graphic processors inside AMD APUs.
>>51618015
They're pretty weak GPUs, but if you have no use for a real GPU they save you a lot of space, power and money since you can just connect your monitor to your PC without a dedicated graphics card and it works for pretty much anything except gaming
>>51618821
Unless of course the gaming you do is absolute shit, like me. In which case, you can run a fair amount of things without a real GPU.
Other people might be disturbed at the idea of playing Team Fortress 2 at 640x480
>>51617683
What does Chips mean?
>>51619681
cuboid potatoes that are fried
>>51617629
Performance isn't the only factor you dimwit, my i5 6500 has never reached 70°C on full load with the stock cooler. That's saying something about efficiency. Keep in mind that these are also some of the first 14nm cpus.
>>51619864
That's because you have a 65 watt tdp chip which can only turbo to 3.6 GHz you fucking moron.
>>51619864
>my i5 6500 has never reached 70°C on full load with the stock cooler
Of course it hasn't, it is a locked CPU.
>14nm
Literal meme. Why would anyone care about litography when they are buying a CPU?
>>51616739
go x99
>>51621331
unless you plan on running quad channel ram and you need the extra pci lanes. whats the point in spending the cash? For the average anon who wont oc or utilize quad channel anyways.
>>51617732
huh? What are you trying to say? Neither Skylake nor Sandy Bridge has a quad-channel memory controller, so 4 vs 2 doesn't even matter.
it gives you more memory bandwidth. If you aren't bottlenecked by memory bandwidth, it doesn't matter.
A lot of ssd's are starting to use ram cache (samsung rapid), so ddr4 would improve hard drive performance.
>>51616779
fugg
>tfw order arrives tomorrow
Yes I know I got 3GHz RAM with a CPU that only supports up to 2133, I got it because it was on sale.
>>51623326
You do realize that speed only comes with the xmp profile right. Its basically being OC'd. It runs 2133 natively.
>>51618821
they're not too bad
the iGPU inside my 6700k is more powerful as the radeon 5700 I had inside my pc in 2010, which was good enough to play shit like sc2, lol, and random mmos on max
i'm upgrading off of an old budget-build AMD cpu I picked up when my previous computer fried itself, since right I don't really think I can wait for ZEN to come out in 2017 any longer. I'm going to grab a skylake I guess. Might as well buy into the new socket if I'm switching over to an intel, right?
if i had a haswell i probably wouldn't give a shit about skylake.
i'm about to build a new 6600k build. how do i pick which ram i get, brand specifically. i know i want to get 8gb, 2x 4
>>51616779
This is actually not true for Fallout 4. Surprisingly, we've seen strong ties between memory speed and the performance of the game.
Up to a 20% fps difference between 1600 and 2133 on ddr3 memory
>>51626282
Then something is very wrong with the game. Vydias are suppose to rely on Vram and gpu/cpu processing power alone for FPS during rendering. System RAM has very little to do with FPS.
The only exception is if you're using the iGPU to play the game in which case you should just kill yourself.
>>51626282
>Bethesda in charge of programming
>>51626282
I'm very curious to know how they accomplished to screw up fo4 in a way its performance is depending on the type of memory you're using.
>>51626457
bethesda can't code for shit. Fo4 is demanding as Most games this year, but has the aesthetic quality of a ps2 game. They also wait for modders to fix their bugs or even just leave them unpatched.
>>51626282
>Up to a 20% fps difference between 1600 and 2133 on ddr3 memory
Holy fuckballs is Bethesda forcing computers to use system ram instead of vram for the game? Are they THAT fucking incompetent?
>>51626457
>>51626500
I have the feeling performance is fucked intentionally to help Nvidia sell newer cards. They pulled the bullshit amount of tesselation once again.
>>51626500
The game doesn't even have tessellated vegetation and the textures look like shit. God help the poor man who runs FO4 on 4K without mods to not tear his eyeballs out.
>>51626548
Even the tessellation being maxed out on amd cards look like shit. It's 2015 and it doesn't even look better than Far Cry 3.
>>51626457
It's pretty easy- the textures. The textures are 2048x2048 but they have the quality of 256x256 textures.
Ergo you're using huge amounts of memory for textures that would fit in a fraction of the space with the same quality.
>>51617437
damn I got a 4690k for $210 over the weekend
>>51626555
Actually it does but it looks like shit. Also rumour is jewvydia paid Bethesda to cripple fps on AMD cards by forcing excessive tessellation.
GTA V looks so much better than Fallout 4.
>>51626628
I got i7 6700k for 200euros.
>>51626715
Must admit they did a dam good job with the texture details.
>>51617312
so it's best to invest in something now as opposed to waiting a year or two when its more of a necessity and even more popular(and most likely less expensive?)
>>51626715
GTAV looks better and it runs better.
Fallout4 is one of the worst optimised games in history.
>>51623326
>Gamer STORM
Oh my god how can you support that
>>51623326
>only 16gb ram
pleb
>>51626375
There is an enb work around that tricks the game into thinking system ram is vram that helps alot with fps issues. I got a 15+fps boost from it.
>>51626737
>I just specced a skylake i5 build and for $20 more than my current haswell setup I could have had another pcie 3.0 x16 slot and ddr4
>>51626986
> I could have had another pcie 3.0 x16 slot
On still the same 16x lanes..?
you dont go skylake when you build a new computer because of the ram. you go skylake so you can upgrade
>>51626774
calm your autism by just ignoring the names
>>51626457
Well, it's Bethesda. I don't think they have a single AAA tier engine programmer in there. The code's probably inefficient in over 9000 different ways.
Skyrim was horribly CPU bound as well until some modder found out that its performance was badly limited by unoptimized floating point code and un-inlined calls during rendering. After he made a tiny binary patch that increased the FPS by like 30% in many places (e.g. looking over Whiterun) Bethesda probably started looking at it and eventually produced an update that seemed to have basic compiler optimizations working. Maybe they just disabled them to hide bugs and meet the 11/11/11 release date, who knows.
I'm having absolutely no issues with fallout 4....saying that I DO have DDR4
Also not defending Bethesda, there engine is terrible and in dire need of replacing though it does look pretty when theres a radiation storm
>>51626715
R* surprisingly paid a lot of attention to graphics improvements and optimization in GTA V PC. Other than the shit-tier online connectivity and menu system, that game looks gorgeous and is pretty much rock-solid.
FO4 is a bad joke made either by people who don't care or are otherwise incompetent.
>>51629574
>you go skylake so you can upgrade
Intel is going to change the socket after another gen anyway and Skylake's successor is definitely not going to be fast enough to warrant a CPU upgrade.
>>51616739
Wait for AMD's Zen. Only buy Skylake if Zen is a failure.
>>51630366
This t.bh, it's why my new build will just be a 4790k overclocked to 5GHz. Should not be bottle necked by new GPUs for at least the next 5 years.
>>51626773
>Fallout4 is one of the worst optimised games in history.
Is it okay to mix different brands for two different sets of ram?
I'm going from 8 to 16 and there's a sale on a different brand than the one I have.
>>51616782
Fallout 4 is deliberately rigged to run on new technologies despite not needing to, to force gamers to buy newer hardware.
>>51630528
*tips tinfoil hat*
>>51630542
Tell anon why they are wrong.
>>51630528
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
>>51630569
incompetence*.
There are points when every heuristic breaks down. If you don't intelligently control for error, and blindly have faith in vague assumptions and rules of thumb, you are made the moron.
>>51630556
That's not how making claims work.
>Bethesda has never released anything hugely unoptimized, must be collusion with Jewish run hardware manufactures.
>>51630591
It is, actually. The burden of proof goes both ways. You cannot say someone is wrong without evidence of your own, because at such a point you are making an unbacked claim of your own. You can merely say you don't believe they are right. Nothing more, nothing less.
I don't really know or care what's actually going on though. Games barely manage to interest me anymore. I'm also dead inside and don't care enough to reverse engineer every unknown aspect of what makes the world really tick. Why bother, man.
>>51616779
>APUs
>>51630591
This. It's not really Judaism at work this time. It's just that Bethesda programmers are shit. All of their games are dogshit when first released and continue to have problems and unoptimized code that may never be fixed ever. Is it actually sheer incompetence or just not giving a fuck about quality? I dunno.
>>51617312
>buy them now while they are expensive!
Yo, listen to this economics guru
>>51630627
No I am not fucking obliged to prove Bethesda releasing a game in almost the exact state everyone expected God damn fucking months ago you stupid fuck.
Im not obliged to prove it isn't a retarded and ineffective conspiracy to make people buy new hardware when it still runs like ass on my 970.
THATS NOT HOW CLAIMS WORK
>>51630692
Yes you are, and I just explained why. All caps doesn't change the facts.
>>51630636
Using system RAM for APUs is the reason they suck you know. Even dual channel 3,200 MHz DDR4 only provides 51.2GB/s of bandwidth. Meanwhile HBM can easily provide 128GB/s which is ideal for APUs with more than 512 gcn cores. I hope zen APUs have HBM instead of DDR4.
>>51630700
Well carry on being wrong.
But I'll give you a tip. You did a poor job dismantling the entire concept of the burden of proof in a paragraph on 4chan every rational person has been using in our lifetime.
Im still not obliged to consider unsubstantiated insane claims.
>>51630825
>But I'll give you a tip.
Well that is that, and this is this. You'll tell me what you saw, and I'll tell you what you missed.
If you truly have anything substantial to tell me, I will need indication of this as well. At present, I have serious doubts. Carry on, it's not up to me to coddle broken and inadequate ways of thinking.
>>51630923
>it's not up to me to explain why you have to disprove entirely unfounded claims that never had evidence.
>but I can act like a twat with a false sense of intellectual high ground because because someone actually had to tell me how the burden of proof works.
Lel
>>51631148
>Implying I didn't tell you how it really works
I'm kind of high on salsolinol etc. I am entirely correct and disappointed in you either way, but I'm probably overexpressing aggressive and condescending attitudes.
>>51617911
What do the grayed out and yellow numbers represent?
>>51616739
I believe if you have a 4 year old machine and would like to upgrade today go for the latest skylake and ddr4 and some other 2016 tech stuff so you'll be ok for next 4-5 years
if you'll be shitposting even 8 yo machines are quite alright. so you don't have to upgrade today.
