Turned on Wayland on my GNOME Fedora Workstation. So, what exactly should be different now? (I don't really know what display server protocol is.)
>>51520160
No desktop icons, thats what.
>>51520160
It should be a bit faster, I think. Wayland is less bloated, and my roommate ran benchmarks on Xwayland vs pure X, Xwayland always came out on top, not even mentioning pure Wayland applications.
>>51521361
So turning on Wayland makes the DE faster? Is that the only benefit?
>>51521361
Xwayland? I thought it was just wayland.
Is Wayland less RAM heavy than X?
>>51521837
He mentioned "pure Wayland" apps, did they already make Wayland backwards compatible with X?
>>51521855
Kinda, except Xwayland is another protocol ontop of Wayland to interpret X apps, so Wayland(and Xwayland) does a better job compared to X itself(which is sad and hilarious).
>>51520160
when is wayland going mainstream?
>>51521956
soon. wayland is going to be default in fedora 24 so its starting soon.
When you drag a window it no longer lags behind the cursor.
>>51520160
I've been using it for a few weeks and it's a bit buggy. Sometimes certain X applications (notably dmenu because I keep spawning it so much) don't open until I close another X window. It does feel faster though.
>>51521956
Never.
>literally only one wayland display manager - gnome's
>no proprietary drivers supporting wayland
>no performance without proprietary drivers
>literally 3 wayland compositors - weston (not real), greenisland (doesn't even compile 9.9/10 times, literally 2 devs working on it - only in their spare time), mutter (gnome garbage)
>arbitrary limit to the amount of xwayland clients, so you can't have more than K x windows opened at once (10? 12? Something low like that)
>>51520160
If they did their jobs right, you'd notice nothing.
>>51521812
Wayland is more secure than X. Martin Graesslin blogged a bit about it http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2015/11/looking-at-the-security-of-plasmawayland/
>>51521956
Gnome already has a wayland session.
Plasma soon will.
I'd say by the time the next version Debian comes out, Wayland will have more users than X11.
>>51521978
yea soon like in 5 year.
>>51521978
I remember when it was supposed to be the default in fedora 21.
>>51521812
Sorry if a bit late. I didn't get it quite right the first time around, he uses Openbox and literally run glmark2 through X, glmark2 through Xwayland and glmark2-wayland. glmark2 through X was the slowest, by quite a large margin too. These are pure 3D graphics benchmarks.
Now just from his experience, native wayland applications supposedly run a lot faster than X, and Xwayland is comparable in performance to native X, as he says.
Also, apparently Qt Creator for some reason always glitched on him, so it either that QT5 compatibility is not fully ironed out yet or it's that he runs Arch. I think he also tried getting rid of X altogether just for a test, and failed at the task, X dependencies are still required.
What's wrong with X Window System? Shouldn't you, like, you know, not fix what is not broken?
>>51524546
Watch this whole video when you get a chance. It's the best answer to your question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
>>51524546
>not fix what is not broken?
To apply this rule Xorg would have to "not be broken" in the first place.
And it's broken.
It's an ancient program and the amount of workarounds, weird fixes and attempts to make this insecure piece of shit secure takes more lines of code than the Xorg itself.
>>51524573
X and wayland can both go suck a dick, mir is the future
>>51524674
Hey mr. shuttleworth
>>51524674
>mir
Canonical pls go
>>51524682
>>51524681
just watch, once it's released, all the buntus will adopt it and it will show up in the aur as well. and it should theoretically be very efficient since it's designed with low power devices like the ubuntu phone in mind
Wayland is a meme
Linux is a meme
Window Manger is a meme
GPU drivers are a meme
>>51524765
your mom is a meme
>>51524725
>all the buntus will adopt it
Yeah no, not really.
Mir will be Unity-exclusive because no other desktop environment/window manager supports it.
And noone will because Wayland is in the pre-production-ready stage and Gnome, KDE already supports it and mate lxqt and number of window managers already working on porting to it.
I'm willing to bet that Mir will be an abortion just like other """"""""great ideas""""" from canonical like Upstart being a competition to much better systemd.
If Fedora manages to get Wayland as the default in 24, all other distros will follow and soon Mir will be thrown out of the window.
>>51524780
She sucks good for a meme
>>51524787
>systemd
>better than upstart in any way
>systemd
>even remotely acceptable, let alone good
Lennart pls go.
>>51524809
just like loonix
>>51520160
No screen tearing or dropped frames when you drag windows around.
>>51524787
even so, the advent of mir is a good thing, competition helps drive innovation
>>51524787
>>51524814
Besides, Mir will be licensed under GPLv3 and Wayland is MIT (just like Xorg).
And the market is very hostile towards gplv3.
>>51524814
this shill has to stop, systemd is better than your legacy shit and has been adopted everywhere, get over it.
>>51524884
Pooterring get out
>>51522027
>supported by the most-used Linux desktop
>being pushed hard by the most powerful Linux company
gee, how will Wayland ever gain traction?
>>51524908
>people will adopt a technology that causes a segfault on boot due to incompatible hardware
Sure bro, whatever you say.
>>51524859
I can't argue about the competition but while Mir existing is not a bad thing in itself, Mir being planned to be a default display server on Ubuntu IS a bad thing.
Ubuntu is one of the most (if not the most) popular Linux distributions.
Mir being used as a replacement for Xorg instead of Wayland (which what the remaining distros will or plan to use in the future) increases fragmentation of the Linux ecosystem.
It didn't matter that much in terms of init systems - most user applications do not interact with it.
But when we all switch to Wayland and Ubuntu switches to Mir, a developer who wants to develop for Linux will be forced to choose.
>developing for Ubuntu/Mir
>developing for the rest/Wayland
>developing for both, which is less economically viable
MIA
>>51524946
>most user applications do not interact with it.
Didn't*
FTFY.
Now that systemd is a thing, 99% of user applications have dependencies on an init system.
>>51524937
>people won't adopt a technology just because one company didn't write drivers for it yet
sure thing
>>51524977
>the two only relevant GPU vendors
>"just because one company"
That's how deluded shuttlescum is.
>>51524996
AMDs proprietary drivers are irrelevant because the development efforts go to the open drivers nowadays.
>>51525016
My sides!
>>51524996
>shuttlescum
You sure you understood the posts of the guy you're replying to?
>>51524967
I get it already, you're buttblasted at systemd.
We're talking about display servers tho.
also
>mfw autists will have to kill themselves because wayland has a systemd dependency
>>51525051
Where do I sign up to get paid to shitpost on /g/ like you?
>>51525070
redhat.com
>>51525107
Thanks. Time to get rich!
>>51520160
Good luck getting YouTube videos to work.
>>51526528
Work just fine here lol
>>51522027
>>no proprietary drivers supporting wayland
That's because Intel and AMD are backing open source. Intel has official wayland support and AMD is deprecating catalyst. NoVidia is pushing their proprietary drivers as usual but wayland support is planned eventually.
>>51525051
>wayland has a systemd dependency
literally what
>>51524674
I actually don't mind Mir my main problem with it is the company that is developing it. The license is another problem but also kinda important if it's supposed to be usable outside of GNU/Linux
>>51526794
it's not supposed to be usable outside of linux, it's not even meant to be usable outside of buntu. they're slowly working towards having a closed ecosystem
>>51524946
>But when we all switch to Wayland and Ubuntu switches to Mir, a developer who wants to develop for Linux will be forced to choose.
>>developing for Ubuntu/Mir
>>developing for the rest/Wayland
>>developing for both, which is less economically viable
Intel is purposely excluding Mir from all future driver development. They're going to have a hell of a time making ground on laptops without 50-60% of the GPUs working properly.
Assuming Mir even gets applications worth using someone will probably just make a Mir -> Wayland compatibility layer.
>>51521978
see me when f24 comes around and u still on X
>>51526965
they'll just say fuck intel and make arm powered buntbooks
>>51526982
>>>/reddit/
>>51521855
>did they already make Wayland backwards compatible with X?
Kinda but not really. X devs added support for the wayland protocol to the X server so X can run as a wayland client and using the X server you can run X applications.
