java
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Why does /g/ hate java so bad?
>Inb4 its not C
If Java had true garbage collection, it would delete itself
Because they don't understand it.
>>51300565
kek
>>51300573
Like what exactly is there to understand?
>>51300573
By far the most trite cop-out for anything that sucks, ever.
>>51300599
OOP comes to mind
>>51300616
That's a very vague statement. Can you be more specific about what is there to understand about Java in regard of OOP?
>>51300603
>>51300565
Why dont you give an explanation of why its bad instead of bashing the language?
Legitimately asking
JVM is a nice environment for dev.
Good IDE-Support, easy debugging / benchmarking and profiling, easy deployment, no hard-to-debug segfaults, no applications with buffer / stack overflow vulnerabilities cause you made one subtle mistake somewhere, while still being one of the fastest languages.
The language itself is fine too, it does tons of things right and only a few things wrong. Java is really conservative with adding features, so you might not have the newest toys and gimmicks, but its a stable environment for creating your stuff.
>>51300665
Java is OOP. OOP did not exist before Java, and there is nothing in OOP which can't be done in Java.
>>51300693
The language makes it so that instead of getting actual work done you are lost in al l the object orientation and overcomplicated libraries. Compare it to something like Clojure which is also on the JVM and it is night and day.
>>51300693
Probably because I wasn't bashing the language so much as I was pointing out his half-assed apologism.
>g-guys, you just don't get it! open your minds!
It's a sort of universal No-True-Scotsman tactic in which anyone who criticizes something is in some retards' minds automatically ejected from the set of people who are qualified to pass judgement.
>>51300736
>Primitive types.
Try inherit int. So it's not so much oop.
>shitty type system
>no type inference
>too high level to replace C and the likes
>too low level to make high level programming meaningful
>everything must be a class
>fucked up "closures"
>no TCO
>module system's still not done after ~20 years
I could go on
>>51300748
Why can't you get work done in Java? Why are you lost in all the object orientated features?
>>51301257
Java wasn't meant to replace C. Java was intended to be a high level "write once run everywhere language" with a syntax that can be described on a single sheet of paper. You don't do recursion in Java, you do loops in Java.
In other words, why do you try to manipulate the language with idioms you've learned from other languages? You're supposed to use idioms that work well within Java.
>>51301383
what I mean is that it doesn't do its jobs well as a high level language and it can't even do low level to make that excusable. the syntax literally cannot be described on one sheet of paper because it is based on bloaty C shit. and "you're not supposed to use that" is not an excuse for lack of TCO.
Bloat, insecure, unportable, verbose syntax.
Next question.
Because it has neither the expressiveness and beauty of Lisp nor the universal acceptance and raw power of C.
>install jdk and eclipse
>load up eclipse
>exit eclipse
>java is still running in the background using 500mb
>>51300544
As a language, all I really hate is the hacked together generics system. Other than that, It doesn't have any other completely asinine qualities as a language itself.
As it's implemented, however, it has the worse tooling of any language I've ever used. To call one of the many things wrong with it out, $CLASSPATH is so fucking unorthodox that it makes my blood boil. DON'T CALL IT A PATH IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BEHAVE LIKE OTHER $*PATH* VARIABLES. FUCK.
And then you get into the politics of Oracle and how many anti-developer policies they have. It's an easy language to hate.
>>51301312
Because a language should represent computation, not modeling ten different classes and interfaces to solve simple problems, basic things and like working with data structures require way too much casting and working with the out of control generics system, only gets worse when you try concurrency.
No operator overloading
>>51304440
But goyim, it does have operator overloading! Just that only Oracle is allowed to do it.
What's a good alternative to Java guys? I've been using java for a while now and kinda feel comfortable with it but feel it over complicates things at times.. Should I pickup Python? Thinking of stopping learning Java and moving to something else, Python is much easier and kinda fits into my current Linux craze right now, being easy to use/integrate within Linux is a plus.
>>51304580
Clojure, F#, Haskell, Golang.
Python shouldn't be used for something bigger than scripts.
>>51300544
because it's OO done right, honestly.
it's just that OO is pretty bad sometimes.
>>51304440
that's a good thing
>>51300544
http://java-0day.com/
>>51304608
>>51304580
that's what Ruby is for [spoiler] or so I've been told[/spoiler]
>>51301383
>In other words, why do you try to manipulate the language with idioms you've learned from other languages? You're supposed to use idioms that work well within Java.
FUCK YOU AND YOUR SENSIBLE ADVICE
GET YOUR LOGIC OUT OF HERE WANKER
THIS IS /g/ CONSUMERISM
>>51304810
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKg1hTOQXoY
>Java is the most distressing thing to happen to computing since MS-DOS.
I don't remember when but I know he said that in this talk
This guy created OO. Java doesn't do it right.
>>51300544
They hate it because they haven't gotten the necessary education for them to understand the usefulness of object oriented programming.
C++ is Shit. Java gives you a stack trace of exactly where something crashed and how it crashed. C++ gives you Shit-tier error messages when you have bugs.
>>51300544
anyone who does "real" systems programmers hates it because it runs on a VM and is built around GC semantics, which is fucking awful for high speed/efficiency systems.
besides that, nobody likes the super-verbose syntax tailor made for Apu in Mumbai to pump out shitty Design Patterns with.
There are pros and cons for each language. There are some things Java does better than C++ and there are some things C++ does better than Java. That's just how it is.
A majority of "people" that don't like Java are just parroting what other "people" are saying. They hear "unsecure" and "slow" and they just repeat it even though they don't really know anything. Java used to be slow but it drastically improved in modern Java. Unsecure refers to the sandbox which is used in web applications. As long as you don't use Java plugins on your browser (realistically no one does), then it's not any less secure than running C++ code.
>>51305182
But you're talking entire different levels of performance and it's getting better, especially when llvm matures
>>51300736
>OOP did not exist before Java.
This is blatantly false.
Smalltalk is more OOP, and older.
What Java did do was bring a language with syntax very similar to C++, but with
- Garbage Collection
- The VM, write once run anyway, more info on crashing,...
- Various safeties, and abstractions from the metal.
>>51305121
That cringy as fuck joke at the beginning lol. Good thing comp sci worked out for him.
People that defend Java haven't programmed in real/good OOP languages like Smalltalk, Eiffel, Modula-3, or Common Lisp's OO libraries.
>>51306715
I didn't know you could say so little in such long form.
