Boys we got a fresh new anti-Torvalds anti-Linux hitpiece, in Washington Post of all places
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/business/2015/11/05/net-of-insecurity-the-kernel-of-the-argument/
>>51224522
Feminism > Linux
>>51224522
it's time people moved to openBSD
if they think Linus rages, wait till they meet theo
>>51224522
Its right. Have you ever checked the CVE for linux? Its has the most known holes of any software project in the world right now.
>>51224522
>just another paunchy, middle-aged suburban dad
kek
>For Linux, the operating system that Torvalds created
>operating system
>>51224522
>One group he has dismissed as “masturbating monkeys.” In blasting the security features produced by another group, he said in a public post, “Please just kill yourself now. The world would be a better place.”
thank you based linyos torovoltos
>>51224522
>>51224879
You don't know how computers really work do you?
>>51224881
Linus truly is an alpha male in a beta world.
>>51224893
http://pupeno.com/2007/09/09/linux-is-not-an-operating-system/
>>51224881
Linus is such a fucking alpha male.
His own wife asked him out, and not the other way around
>>51224879
Then later the author describes the problem being in the kernel of said operating system.
>One group he has dismissed as “masturbating monkeys.”
Because they focused on security over all else, to the point of never adding complex features because they would be too hard to audit and verify (like fucking journaled filesystems)
OpenBSD way = not having sex because you might catch AIDS
Linux way = wearing heavy-duty condom pants because you might catch AIDS
Windows way = buying a gas station condom. with nubs and ribs!
OS X way = AIDS? don't kid yourself. like that would happen to me. cowabunga!
Plan 9 way = Just using a dildo instead of dealing with human beings (not a fleshlight. those are overcomplicated and violate the unix way.)
>>51224781
>the most known holes of any software project
> the most known
As opposed to the unpublicized holes in proprietary software only the maker, government, and hackers know about.
>>51224522
>But while Linux is fast, flexible and free, a growing chorus of critics warn that it has security weaknesses that could be fixed but haven’t been. Worse, as Internet security has surged as a subject of international concern, Torvalds has engaged in an occasionally profane standoff with experts on the subject. One group he has dismissed as “masturbating monkeys.” In blasting the security features produced by another group, he said in a public post, “Please just kill yourself now. The world would be a better place.”
>But while Linux is fast, flexible and free, a growing chorus of critics warn that it has security weaknesses that could be fixed but haven’t been
>WORSE HE SOMETIMES SAYS MEAN WORDS
this article just tldr'd whats wrong with the current decade.
>>51224522
yeah, it would be great, if any of it was even remotely technically accurate.
linus, as much of a tremendous man-child faggot that he is, is not responsible for userspace vulnerabilities in linux distributions. let me put it into terms you can wrap you stupid head around: you've heard the phrase GNU/Linux, right? Well the vulnerabilities are in the GNU part. Linus is only responsible for the Linux part. You are responsible for the / part, as well as any software installed on your system.
>>51225086
articles like this one on WP are what you inevitably end up with when publishers hire a "technical writer" who's never studied any of the shit he writes about in an academic field, and if he's ever even written software it's either a hello world, or had something to do with "employee id's"
>>51224522
This is a thinly disguised Microsoft hit piece.
>Security of any system can never be perfect. So it always must be weighed against other priorities — such as speed, flexibility and ease of use — in a series of inherently nuanced trade-offs.
He has a point desu
what do you need besides aslr and mac anyways desu?
>>51225086
nice not even remotely technically accurate post :^)
>curiously large collection of stuffed penguin dolls
Curiously?
This fucking "journalist" is clearly cave-dweller.
>>51225022
I like this for exposing Linus' vile words to an audience beyond kernel maintainers. Though, it does seem almost apologetic, it’s a decent start.
I wonder if there is any other profession where such hate speech would be tolerated the way it is in our community.
For the record, I’ve never had a conversation with him - just the misfortune of reading his replies to knowledgable people donating their time and trying to help.
>>51225135
Software so fucking simple it's easy to verify as secure is all you need
but then you get plan 9. you don't even get a terminal emulator as the default UI, you get a straight up dumb REPL.
in a non-techie consumer driven world where experience is king, that doesn't fly
>>51224522
>who in person could be mistaken for just another paunchy, middle-aged suburban and beardless..
>>51225112
he actually interviewed the right persons and his core message is right.
diving into technical details isn't that important, tho he did link to actual talks if you really wanted to.
it's a good thing that even mainstream media now cares about security, even when lkml still doesn't.
>>51224522
>For Linux, the operating system that Torvalds created and named after himself
:^)
>>51224781
All of them patched promplty
>>51224956
Sure. Its just that its true that linux has not the best record of security.
>>51225388
>All of them patched promplty
the average lifetime of a kernel bug is 5 years, that's not promptly nor is playing whack-a-mole the right strategy for security.
how about you actually RTFA, it links to all the relevant talks.
>>51224522
>the dodos had it coming
>>51225423
So many people aren't actually reading the article and just are assuming its an attack on linus' character, or are at least only focusing on that part.
>>51225143
nope, it isn't. i develop the linux kernel, what do you know?
>>51224956
>As opposed to the unpublicized holes in proprietary software only the maker, government, and hackers know about.
most security holes do not get CVEs in Linux. Linus is well known for his 'security bugs are just bugs' attitude and most security bugs don't get a CVE but are hidden in some cryptic commit message like 'fixed sth stupid'. only the bad guys pay attention to that. Not even stable kernel maintainers notice them and when someone else does they are opposing getting CVEs for them.
>>51225428
I want that watch dude
>>51225443
Not him, but can you address the state of all the security compromising bugs in the kernel?
I'm quoted in this article lol
>>51225484
http://kernsec.org/wiki/index.php/Kernel_Self_Protection_Project
>>51224781
beacuse is the largest dev-base
bussines doesn't have to post every patch in the changelog, and sinple plain users doesn't file bugs
>>51225484
Not him, but the two biggest problems are that the codebase is growing way too fast to keep up on fixing everything and that some big companies involved in Linux kernel development (*ahem* RedHat *ahem*) intentionally submit obfuscated code, in order to get more control over the codebase and sell their support.
>>51225534
>intentionally submit obfuscated code
bullshit, how about you show us an example of that.
>>51225480
/wt/
>>51225480
I don't think any were ever sent out to the public. If you get one its probably worth a ton.
>>51224710
how hard is to port linux sofware?
I understand C is C everywhere in *nix, like perf, etc
>not cs in case you didn't notice
Versions of Linux have proved vulnerable to serious bugs in recent years. AshleyMadison.com, the Web site that facilitates extramarital affairs and suffered an embarrassing data breach in July, was reportedly running Linux on its servers, as do many companies.
>Those problems did not involve the kernel itself,
>>Those problems did not involve the kernel itself,
>Those problems did not involve the kernel itself,
>Those problems did not involve the kernel
so why even mention this? fucking bikeshedding authors
>>51225423
is funny cause is true
>Yet even among Linux’s many fans there is growing unease about vulnerabilities in the operating system’s most basic, foundational elements — housed in something called “the kernel,”
This is the first time I hear about a "growing unease"
>>51225699
welcome to Washington post
>>51225566
To OpenBSD?
No hard usually.
OpenBSD and other BSDs even have a Linux emulation layer to run linux binaries directly (but OpenBSD's is a bit limited and for example won't run flash while FreeBSD ran everything I threw at it)
>>51225178
Kill yourself, you nigger faggot.
>>51225734
>Linux emulation layer
how? does it run the kernel? that'll be funny senpai
>>51225818
No, the FreeBSD kernel has a compatible interface for Linux syscalls + some basic Linux userspace libraries
>Calling the whole system "Linux" leads people to think that the system's development was started in 1991 by Linus Torvalds. That is what most users seem to think. The occasional few users that do know about the GNU Project often think we played a secondary role--for example, they say to me, 'Of course I know about GNU--GNU developed some tools that are part of Linux'.
>>51225878
This homeless faggot can go fuck himself
>>51224522
he looks like an older sam hyde
>>51225854
>literaly install gentoo
Install emulators/linux_dist-gentoo-stage3
>"there is a Linux kernel in the FreeBSD kernel"
>>51225922
What?
No there isn't
>>51224522
Non-productive people who did not amount to shit always dislike productive people are making a difference.
Linus does not waste time with nonsensical people and their bullshit, which is the kind of leadership we need for Linux. It is gradually gaining acceptance in the desktop market, let's keep it going and fuck anyone who does not like it.
>>51225922
it was deleted
>washingtonpost
Truth hurts? It's time for journalism!
>>51225948
sorry, was google 1st result,
I'll give it a try I became linux dependant and that's a nice feature, I really don't like systemd, the enable .services are kind of nice tho
>>51225125
If only. No, this is a SJW hit piece. Do you think it's just a coincidence we see shit like this shortly after Linus rekt some blue haired landwhale?
Expect more of these to follow
>>51225622
where's your evidence for that claim? seems pretty standard to use a kernel exploit in the course of hacking them.
>>51225947
The problem with this attitude is that it might bring the opposite, because people are getting educated on acceptance and praise and being inside their own little bubbles with their fucking diapers.
let's be real tho
spender's grsec and the pax team are fucking based as hell.
torvalds and all the homeboys that hate grsec cus they ain't grsec can eat dicks
>>51225546
systemd told me that he lost the kernel module logs and others again, and this is the default behavior
>>51226039
you make zero sense. systemd isn't part of the kernel.
>>51226023
the way they tried to mainline grsec was destined to fail: big monstrous patch that breaks user-space and not offering any compromises. it's pretty sad that it took now like 10 years till google will try again and spender will just offer snark:
http://kernsec.org/wiki/index.php/Kernel_Self_Protection_Project
>>51225995
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907
>>51226121
I like how tumblrites have already dismissed it out of hand. If, however, a rape claim were made, Torvalds would be guilty immediately.
>>51224522
>linking clickbait
>>51224952
Someone's never used Plan 9. Also your analogy of Linux and OpenBSD the wrong way around.
>>51224881
Linus is top based for this world.
how is this a hit piece?
>>51224781
>>51224522
I guess thats WHY every serious company and organizations uses Linux for their servers.
Fuck off imbeciles.
>>51226014
Userland is shitty and bloated (see: bash, openssl, pam, glibc, apache...)
The slightly less shitty and equally bloated kernel isn't even worth touching. What are you going to do with the kernel, put in a rootkit? Crash the system? Remove some files owned by root, instead of the files not owned by root that actually matter? The data you can loot now is more valuable, and looting data is an easier and safer task than leaving behind a rootkit or something. The kernel isn't usually something a typical skid needs to take control of.
>>51224522
>of all places
>washington post
>not bezos owned establishment trash
>>51224602
>What the fuck are you talking about? Are you retarded? Go back to /pol/ retarded!
It's true tho. Modern Windows for example is much more secure than the average Linux distro, despite the bad fame it has after Windows XP.
Imagine how fucked up would the industry would be if the dominant OS was Linux on personal computers. 100% of the normies would have malware installed. Well, we already have an example of what happens when Linux is dominant: Android is a security mess.
>>51226569
>Modern Windows for example is much more secure than the average Linux distro,
hahaha, get the fuck out of here
>>51224710
Then that means it's soon time for me to move away from OpenBSD to something more obscure, just as I moved away from Linux many years ago.
>>51226584
Except he's right. And I'm a long-time Linux user. Windows 10's anti-exploitation shit is top class. Meanwhile, the only way to have effective anti-exploitation mitigations on Linux is to install Grsecurity, and even that isn't often entirely enough.
>>51226674
>Windows 10's anti-exploitation shit
Such as?
>>51225885
>Over the years, many companies have contributed to free software development. Some of these companies primarily developed non-free software, but the two activities were separate; thus, we could ignore their non-free products, and work with them on free software projects. Then we could honestly thank them afterward for their free software contributions, without talking about the rest of what they did.
We cannot do the same with these new companies, because they won't let us. These companies actively invite the public to lump all their activities together; they want us to regard their non-free software as favorably as we would regard a real contribution, although it is not one. They present themselves as "open source companies," hoping that we will get a warm fuzzy feeling about them, and that we will be fuzzy-minded in applying it.
This manipulative practice would be no less harmful if it were done using the term "free software." But companies do not seem to use the term "free software" that way; perhaps its association with idealism makes it seem unsuitable. The term "open source" opened the door for this.
>Spreading the idea of freedom is a big job--it needs your help. That's why we stick to the term "free software" in the GNU Project, so we can help do that job. If you feel that freedom and community are important for their own sake--not just for the convenience they bring--please join us in using the term "free software".
>>51226674
>long-time Linux user.
Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Many users do not understand the difference between the kernel, which is Linux, and the whole system, which they also call “Linux”. The ambiguous use of the name doesn't help people understand. These users often think that Linus Torvalds developed the whole operating system in 1991, with a bit of help.
>>51226121
The SJWs are well into their discrediting campaign now:
https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/662358694231801856
>FART FART FART FART FART
>>51226916
>SJW?
what are you a social injustice warrior?
>>51225178
I have had a conversation with him and he's fine.
His tyrades are the same as those of a fortune 500 ceo calling his right hand men trash bags for losing out on some massive profit gains.
Whys that? Oh because linux is fucking huge and a stressful job to maintain, and the people directly beneath you can have heads bigger than the moon so need to be told when they're being dumbasses..
Don't like it? Go get another job/hobby/thing to look good on your resume.
Steve jobs was known for his tyrades, why didn't the sjws go after him?
>>51226938
Egalitarian.
>>51225178
Haha, cunt.
>>51225182
>but then you get plan 9. you don't even get a terminal emulator as the default UI, you get a straight up dumb REPL.
Actually you boot into a graphical environment.
There are people logged in to this forum RIGHT NOW who unironically don't believe that The BSD Trinity will save us from Computing Hell
Dear YOU PEOPLE. Go to your User Control Panel, select the Delete My Account option, and press Yes! Thank you. Now, go and learn to think freely and you will understand how it is.
>>51226569
>>51226674
>Except he's right.
Samefag is obvious.
>>51225178
>For the record, I’ve never had a conversation with him
I've seen him before, he was nice.
>>51227158
>Actually you boot into a graphical environment.
That's bloat desu. Can you disable that at least?
Besides, I'm no fan of needing to use mouse.
>>51226971
Steve Jobs did far worse things than just a few cheeky tirades. The man was a monster.
>>51227263
Of course, you remove the "rio" line from your initialization script.
>>51225995
>shortly after Linus rekt some blue haired landwhale
Where and what and who and how?
>>51224522
>Boys we got a fresh new anti-Torvalds anti-Linux hitpiece
Are you being serious? Or are you being silly? Do others in this thread feel the same way?
The article is one part of a five(?) part series discusses the "Internet’s inherent vulnerabilities and why they may never be fixed." This part deals with Linux and its potential vulnerabilities. The article presented the point of view of the security experts and the POV of Torvalds. How the heck is this article anti-linux?
The Washington Post article referenced a post by LWN on a similar topic.
https://lwn.net/Articles/662219/
>The kernel community has often been hostile to changes that increase security if they decrease usability or performance, or if they make development harder. But this particular talk led to a lot of discussion among the attendees. It would seem that the kernel development community is coming around to the idea that some sacrifices may need to be made to provide the level of security that our users need. The real test will come when the patches start to arrive; if, as Kees suggested, developers manage to avoid reflexively rejecting security patches, things will have started moving in the right direction.
Surely, no one thinks that lwn is anti-Torvalds or anti-linux.
>>51227428
>Are you being serious? Or are you being silly? Do others in this thread feel the same way?
Yes
Yes
Yes
>:D
>>51227428
It's just another example of shitty journalism.
>Talk about security without defining it first
>Present the subject without a sliver of technical depth
>Absolutely no objectivity
>>51227683
>>Talk about security without defining it first
What sort of definition are you looking for? I'm not trolling. It isn't a technical article (it is in the business section). The author is introducing (in some cases) the reader to a kernel/OS that runs the Internet and many devices. And then goes on to assert:
>experts say the kernel has become a popular target for hackers building “botnets,” giant networks of computers that can be organized to initiate cyberattacks. Experts also say that government spies — and the companies that sell them surveillance tools — have turned their attention to the kernel as Linux has spread.
>>Present the subject without a sliver of technical depth
It isn't a technical site like ArsTechnica, it is the WashingtonPost (again, in the business section).
>>Absolutely no objectivity
The author presented the argument of Torvalds' critics. And he also presented Torvolds' responses (the article ends with Torvalds). What bias are you seeing?
>>51227919
>ArsTechnica
>technical
oh, i am laughing
>>51228009
Typical /g/ arrogance. I'm not even the guy you replied to, but I don't care what your consensus on ArsTechnica ist, just like the whole rest of the world with the exception of your mom doesn't. It's a site that's meant to be technical, no matter how huge your superiority complex is.
>>51227919
Stop shilling for your dumb article, cunt.
>What sort of definition are you looking for?
I didn't know there are different types of definition. How about you read a couple of good essays first before trying your hand at professional writing?
>It isn't a technical article (it is in the business section)
Which doesn't excuse it's lack of technical explanations. It's an article about a technical subject so you can't omit the most vital part of it -- the technical information. There's no rule that it must be presented in a dry and strict manner like in a scientific paper. Again, read some books to learn how it's done (this time you should look into popsci).
>>experts say the kernel has become a popular target...
Literally a non-sentence, charged full with agenda and discharged of all meaning.
>The author presented the argument of Torvalds' critics. And he also presented Torvolds' responses (the article ends with Torvalds). What bias are you seeing?
The whole article has the purpose of presenting the Linux kernel as ``securely vulnerable'' and Linus himself as ``white entitled autist'' whose goal is only to make your life worse.
>>51228009
God, I hate you right now. I'm lying in bed, barely awake, reading this... And I want to kick your mom in the cunt.
>>51225443
No one that is a kernel maintainer talks like that
>>51224522
>loonix
>bug gets found and fixed and checked because open source
>microtrash
>bug gets never found and patched and NSA already exploits it
>Encryption ransomware threatens Linux users
http://news.drweb.com/show/?i=9686&lng=en&c=5
Why is Linux so secure, /g/?
>>51228219
>Stop shilling for your dumb article, cunt.
Oh wow. I made you angry.
>I didn't know there are different types of definition.
You claimed the article talked about security without defining it. The article clearly defined it.
>How about you read a couple of good essays first before trying your hand at professional writing?
I don't need to read essays before posting on a chinese cartoon website. I wasn't claiming to be a professional writer in my post. Did my use of the English language somehow imply some level of professionalism. I was just trying to have a conversation.
>Which doesn't excuse it's lack of technical explanations.
The article was for people who read the business section. And it provided the opinions of relevant people on both sides of the issue, namely Torvalds. You claim the article had no technical depth, when *clearly* it did. Most people have no idea what a kernel is, the article explained it. That is just one example.
>read some books to learn how it's done
Oh god. I must be the author because I disagree with you.
>charged full with agenda and discharged of all meaning.
An article discussing security concerns, giving the opinions of leaders on both sides of the issue...and you see 'agenda'.
>The whole article has the purpose of presenting the Linux kernel as...
You are silly. Linus isn't painted as a 'white entitled autist'. And the purpose of the article was to address concerns of those who think the kernel is a target and how kernel devs should be more concerned...and how Torvolds disagrees.
It is obvious from your response that you only see what you want to see in the informative article.
>The author of the article would be so angry at autists on 4chan that he would come to /g/ to defend himself.
u dum
>>51225022
holy shit this is hilarious
when i read it i just thought it was implying that makes the situation worse
>linux insecurity is a huge problem for the world where everything is connected to the internet leading to massive cascading problems throughout all sectors of society and will one day cause a nuclear power plant to explode killing millions of people
>forget all that though, the guy who wrote it is a grumpy finn who swears sometimes
Sometimes interesting discussion appear on this rincing consumerism board. How unnusual.
Linuxfags status:
>[ ] NOT TOLD
>[X] UNREAL TOLDAMENT
>[X] TOLD OF DUTY 4: MODERN TOLDFARE
>[X] LEFT 4 TOLD
>[X] LEO TOLDSTOY
>[X] ROME: TOLDAL WAR
>[X] GRAN TOLDRISMO 5
>[X] TOLD CALIBUR 4
>[X] TOLD FORTRESS 2
>>51224893
lmao, there /g/ goes again -- spouting insults and opinions about shit they don't understand.
go back to your containment smart phone threads
>>51224881
Wow, people are STILL crying about this?
>>51224918
I'm not sure if you are joking or serious. Having a woman ask you out is pretty beta. Furthermore, it doesn't matter because gender rules are nonsense designed to keep the weak willed under control.
>>51226450
do you even know what are you talking about?
usually servers aren't your shitty desktop linux where everything runs under the same user. can you even name one server distro that runs apache not under its own user? local privilege exploits are very much very common.
>>51226704
start with the basics. Windows offers GUI isolation. X11 doesn't. it's total failure for a desktop OS.
>>51229655
it's not beta. it's rare, and you shouldn't expect it, but it's not beta.
>>51229836
X11 isn't such a big deal because Linux isn't particularly popular on the desktop, and it's well known to be a piece of shit. The problem is that it's only a matter of time before someone finds a major exploit in a kernel version running on millions of servers and routers.
>>51225995
>Linus rekt some blue haired landwhale
Didn't realize the bastard was a chubby chaser,desu.
>>51226404
Shit piece,amirite?
>>51229883
the initial post on that comparison talked about personal computers, not servers
>>51226569
>>51224881
The absolute madman
>>51226425
because its cheap you waste of sperm
