![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qzKci9h.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
This certainly shouldn't be a surprise at this point. I would guess that it is safe to say that pretty much every person (including myself, I'm certainly not exempt from this) has had bad days and reacted poorly when dealing with the community, contributors, colleagues, etc. These are not excuses and these events can (and often do) shape the behaviours of the community and those observing it.
A close friend of mine, Paul Tagliamonte, was involved in the discussion about Debian's switch to systemd. He received at least 3 death threats due to his participation. In what world is this acceptable behaviour for a community? What about developers who have their addresses and the information of their loved ones posted on 4chan and other "forums"? Why don't we fight this more?
Nice blog
Nothing is more toxic then a OSX asshole being a smug piece of shit.
Also your story is bullshit OP. Death threats for OS switch? Yeah ok.
1/10 are you even trying
>>51221263
what a weird red herring in the middle of a troll thread.
recommended reading
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
Myth: systemd is monolithic.
If you build systemd with all configuration options enabled you will build 69 individual binaries. These binaries all serve different tasks, and are neatly separated for a number of reasons. For example, we designed systemd with security in mind, hence most daemons run at minimal privileges (using kernel capabilities, for example) and are responsible for very specific tasks only, to minimize their security surface and impact. Also, systemd parallelizes the boot more than any prior solution. This parallization happens by running more processes in parallel. Thus it is essential that systemd is nicely split up into many binaries and thus processes. In fact, many of these binaries[1] are separated out so nicely, that they are very useful outside of systemd, too.
A package involving 69 individual binaries can hardly be called monolithic. What is different from prior solutions however, is that we ship more components in a single tarball, and maintain them upstream in a single repository with a unified release cycle.
Myth: systemd is about speed.
Yes, systemd is fast (A pretty complete userspace boot-up in ~900ms, anyone?), but that's primarily just a side-effect of doing things right. In fact, we never really sat down and optimized the last tiny bit of performance out of systemd. Instead, we actually frequently knowingly picked the slightly slower code paths in order to keep the code more readable. This doesn't mean being fast was irrelevant for us, but reducing systemd to its speed is certainly quite a misconception, since that is certainly not anywhere near the top of our list of goals.
also the devs forking a version without systemd
>>51221245
Needs more pictures of everyone's favorite Armenian crybaby
>>51221263
https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/J2TZrTvu7vd
I don't usually talk about this too much, and hence I figure that people are really not aware of this, but yes, the Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets. I get hate mail for hacking on Open Source. People have started multiple "petitions" on petition web sites, asking me to stop working (google for it). Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). Just the other day, some idiot posted a "song" on youtube, a creepy work, filled with expletives about me and suggestions of violence. People post websites about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks. On IRC, people /msg me sometimes, with nasty messages, and references to artwork in 4chan style. And there's more. A lot more.
>implying Linux users aren't fueled by superiority complex
>implying windows users aren't fueled by apple hate
>>51221245
>>51221258
http://www.coglib.com/~icordasc/blog/2015/11/corporations-and-oss-do-not-mix.html?hmsr=toutiao.io&utm_medium=toutiao.io&utm_source=toutiao.io
>>51221311
Well you found me, congratulations. Was it worth it?
Because despite your violent behaviour, the only thing you've managed to break so far is my heart.
>>51221324
>violent
you dont know what this means do you.
First you have to realize there's no such thing as a Linux or open source community. It's a lie, they're always small entities where everyone knows each other personally. When it gets bigger, it's no longer a community.
Anyway, fuck this "community", and their lies.
>>51221245
>The world is full of toxic people
ftfy
Congrats, you'll never escape this hell.
>>51221324
>Because despite your violent behaviour, the only thing you've managed to break so far is my heart.
"...you dangerous, mute lunatic."
Well then the non-toxic people should step it up, stop being sensitive snowflakes, and actually write good code. The reason the software community sucks is because no one else knows how to fucking get shit done.
could always walk away from your computer senpai
He's a little bitch and some people are assholes but Linus reaction was perfectly valid.
You don't become a kernel dev if you just want to dick around.
when did the world get so pussified
or was it always like this and i never noticed?
A lot of people fight it... provided the harassment is done by gamers towards a woman.
If the harassment is done by SJWs, as it usually is, the media seems to support it
>resisting change
>in tech
That's the whole reason I like tech, because it constantly CHANGES. Stagnant lifestyles are for poor people, alcoholics and normies general.
Having a hobby and visiting a website daily is one thing. Having an autistic spaz attack over a kernel change is tier level normfaggot
>>51221245
>He received at least 3 death threats due to his participation
If it's people saying :
>you should kill yourself for being a faggot like that.
it doesn't count as a death threat.
It reminds me the case of Sarah Sharp. Some guy posted pic related and was telling her she was wrong. She took it as a death threat.
> He received at least 3 death threats.
No developer should have to take that ...
> Debian's switch to systemd.
Oh, fully deserved then.
>I need to impose my morals upon other people
Fuck off. Back to Hacker News and Reddit
There are open source communities that allow and even encourage sexism, racism, transphobia, homophobia, and other “-isms”. If you’re looking to avoid that, it’s time to do a deep dive into the mailing list archives or chat logs. Looking for microaggressions is hard, because they can be quite subtle. Searching for terms that degrade women (chick, babe, girl, bitch, cunt), homophobic slurs used as negative feedback (“that’s so gay”), and ableist terms (dumb, retarded, lame), may allow you to get a sense of how aware (or not aware) the community is about the impact of their language choice on minorities. While you’re looking through the mailing list, take a cursory glance through the threaded version of the mailing list archives and try to find a flame war. This allows you to see how they treat each other in the heat of the moment.
There are signs that a community actually cares about nurturing a healthy community dialog. The community may have a designated community manager, or may have a code of conduct that is enforced by several senior developers. Without enforcement, a code of conduct is just empty words. If possible, ask the community manager if they’ve ever had to ask someone to leave their community because they violated the code of conduct.
>>51222438
When George Carlin died
install BSD and ignore the drama
>>51222825
But then the whole free software movement on /g/ will have to fuck off back to Reddit with it.
>>51222898
>microaggressions
this is a disgusting word.
>>51222962
Nah. We don't stroll into other people's communities and demand them to comply with our standards.
>>51222898
>-isms
The worst of them all being "feminism"
>>51222922
>BSD
>ignore the drama
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Randi_Harper
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/24/kip_macy_arrest/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/allegations-openbsd-backdoors-may-be-true
If you consider "politics" a dirty word, and hope to keep your project free of it, give up right now.
Politics are inevitable whenever people have to cooperatively manage a shared resource. It is absolutely
rational that one of the considerations going into each person's decision-making process is the question
of how a given action might affect his own future influence in the project. After all, if you trust your
own judgement and skills, as most programmers do, then the potential loss of future influence has to
be considered a technical result, in a sense.
Similar reasoning applies to other behaviors that might
seem, on their face, like "pure" politics. In fact, there is no such thing as pure politics: it is precisely
because actions have multiple real-world consequences that people become politically conscious in the
first place. Politics is, in the end, simply an acknowledgment that all consequences of decisions must
be taken into account. If a particular decision leads to a result that most participants find technically
satisfying, but involves a change in power relationships that leaves key people feeling isolated, the latter
is just as important a result as the former.
To ignore it would not be high-minded, but shortsighted.
>>51222898
don't exept volnutres to shut up, wear tie and be friedly. They are doing it mostly for free and some autistic fun, so don't lick ass or speak correctly.
Anyway i love all fucking GNU comunity, becouse of support and help.
>Open source software is full of toxic people
I agree, /g/ for one loves to talk shit about things they dont understand
>>51222898
Theeeeere we go. If you don't like a community, don't fucking join it. Go make your own. I don't go to the projects and get this summer with the street gangs for not letting me join or be violent. But, hey, neither do you. You go to OSS projects and tell them that their meritocracy is evil.
Go solve a real problem.
>>51223494
Autocorrect is a bitch.
Some people feel stifled by the general concept of a Code of Conduct. Others may find explicit efforts to improve diversity in our community unpalatable for various reasons. While a major goal of this proposal is to make the community more inclusive, this does by definition exclude people that cannot abide by the goals and principles of the code. I see this as a regrettable but necessary and inescapable design tradeoff. The implementation of the code may cause us to lose a few people, but we stand to gain much more.
If you wish to conduct yourself in a way that goes against the values stated, you will be asked to stop. If you do not stop, you will be removed from our community.
>>51223689
>gain much more
>muh diversity
no.
>>51223689
>if you don't abide by our rules you'll be asked to leave
Fair enough. As long as you also apply this same concept to the so-called "toxic" free software projects like Linux. If you don't like the community, feel free to not participate. Just don't try to change it to abide by your strict morals.
>>51221245
what do ANONYMOUS death threats have to do with the Debian community?
Torvalds has engaged in an occasionally profane standoff with experts on the subject. One group he has dismissed as “masturbating monkeys.” In blasting the security features produced by another group, he said in a public post, “Please just kill yourself now. The world would be a better place.”
There are legitimate philosophical differences amid the harsh words. Linus Torvalds is advocating for physical intimidation and violence. Ingo Molnar and Linus are advocating for verbal abuse. Violence, whether it be physical intimidation, verbal threats or verbal abuse is not acceptable.
Keep it professional on the mailing lists.
>>51225251
linus is truly the alpha sperg
>>51221289
>It's not monolithic, how can it be when it's comprised of 69 interdependent binaries
>>51221305
The fucker designed PulseAudio, frankly I'd celebrate his death for that alone.
>>51221245
Gaymergaters are shitstains. This is news?
Its not opensource community
What you are talking about is in fact gnu+opensource community
>>51222898
>terms that degrade women (chick, babe, girl, bitch, cunt), homophobic slurs used as negative feedback (“that’s so gay”), and ableist terms (dumb, retarded, lame)
>>51221307
>>implying Linux users aren't fueled by superiority complex
>grouping us all together
also systemd is okay, saying that it's against unix philosophy is just silly, because gnu/linux is not unix
however, pulseaudio is shit
>>51225383
And what is wrong with PA exactly?
/inb4muhbloat
>>51221245
>3 death threats due to his participation
source?
you right, but some of the make this for free is kinds of balance it
>>51221245
>He received at least 3 death threats due to his participation.
>threaten to kill people over an init system
Either your definition of a death threat is bad (which I assume), this is bait or the community is really fucking dumb to be butthurt about a fucking init system.
>>51222593
IIRC arch did switch first to shitstemd, then fedora, then centos, redhat and it been a while I don't use debian like , I've trying to prove this but didn't find any, how long took debian to do it after redhat?
>>51222482
>That's the whole reason I like tech, because it constantly CHANGES.
>implying
![OtiGUZx4ss-WClHAfWdb1LCTIfTqdIJrwWcU2kXLYjr1A_i3OxuSkaFRFpEYwgCux0JqQnm5ciqCw7HpRWMHSlPPI00=w506-h379[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/AjEmv72.jpg "OtiGUZx4ss-WClHAfWdb1LCTIfTqdIJrwWcU2kXLYjr1A_i3OxuSkaFRFpEYwgCux0JqQnm5ciqCw7HpRWMHSlPPI00=w506-h379[1].jpg")
While PulseAudio may have detractors, my experience has been all good. Most sound problems I’ve seen come down to one of the following:
>Bad drivers at a lower layer (not PulseAudio’s problem)
>Bad hackery in the distro (ubuntu niggers)
>People parroting years-old Internet “wisdom”
But in a well-integrated system, PulseAudio is awesome. That’s definitely the case with Fedora, which is what I’m using now.
![15+-+1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/p5FMsFS.jpg "15+-+1[1].jpg")
The Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets.
I get hate mail for hacking on Open Source.
People have started multiple "petitions" on petition web sites, asking me to stop working (google for it).
Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!).
Just the other day, some idiot posted a "song" on youtube, a creepy work, filled with expletives about me and suggestions of violence.
People post websites about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks.
On IRC, people /msg me sometimes, with nasty messages, and references to artwork in 4chan style. Everybody in the Linux community is like this
>>51221289
>Instead, we actually frequently knowingly picked the slightly slower code paths in order to keep the code more readable.
>mfw those retards code powers a majority of linux systems
>>51224414
/thread
>>51225712
So get the fucking message and stop, dickhead.
>>51225679
I'm guessing you're using the distro defaults for audio and have never actually used PA, hence 'well-integrated system'.
Last time I dared interact with PulseAudio I spent an hour trying to turn off microphone echo only to put PA in a state where plugging in a microphone forces audio output to go through external speakers instead of my headphones, even though PulseAudio reports that headphone volume is unmuted, speaker volume *is* muted, the speaker output is disabled and and my headphones are the primary output.
I've literally wiped and reinstalled all audio-related packages but the problem still persists.
But since you're an '#worksforme #LennartIDF' shill I'm guessing you'll blame the distro (yes, Ubuntu, so what), the drivers (standard USB audio btw), the hardware (pretty common Dell speakers) and the user (fuck you too) before you blame the cesspool of hidden state and arcane hackery that we call PulseAudio.
>>51222898
Is this /sjw/ pasta?
>>51223362
>board on closed source website discussing mostly how their desktop looks
>open source community
>>51221245
Yeah, it's pretty bad. They should emulate a tolerant liberal community like Tumblr instead :^)
>>51221245
>community for software made by autistic neckbeards for autistic neckbeards
>people act with autism to every small change
why does this surprise you again?
>>51222898
>sexism, racism, transphobia, homophobia
I suppose if I claimthat women, non-whites, trannies and gays don't deserve any special treatment and are neither inherently oppresed by, nor inherently superior to white straight males, I make myself "guilty" of all the terms cited, and would be immediately reported to HR and management and terminated in due time if I were employed at you company. Amirite?
>>51225769
Everyone does that though.
>>51223102
Harper has nothing to do with BSD besides having contributed patches half a decade ago and calling herself freebsdirl.
>toxic
I hate this word so damn much, it literally means "thing(s) I don't like"
>>51222000
2015 society is a bunch of pansy pieces of shit in their "safe spaces"
violence has been redefined to simply disagreeing
>>51225821
Did you report a bug?
>>51225937
how is that a bad thing? I mean, violence is way down so you'd expect this to happen
>>51225918
Don't forget to couple it with "problematic" for the full SJW experience.
>>51221245
I read this guy twitter, and he reblogged this (along Briana Wu and Coraline Ada) https://twitter.com/polotek/status/662283879705784320
>>51225937
>violence has been redefined to simply disagreeing
Even if you don't disagree, you can be accused of "microaggression" any moment, and there's no way for you to disprove such claims. In practice a "benefit of doubt" you'd normally be eligible to doesn't exist, much rather the accuser is being given the "benefit of possible victim".
>>51225977
>"problematic"
I thought that usage of the word "problem" and any of its derivatives are an absolute no-go in corporate environments.
>>51225895
Nice false dichotomy
>>51222898
This unironically. Hopefully more loser virgins get the boot.
>>51226091
>muh buzzwords
>>51221245
>He received at least 3 death threats due to his participation
Who fucking cares?
They don't mean shit until they start sending you pics of your house, wife and kids that weren't taken off the net.
fuck social justice warriors
>>51222414
What gets me is that he intentionally baits and then cries when someone bites.
Ignore crybullies.
>>51222482
Change for the worse is no good.
>>51225452
>saying that it's against unix philosophy is just silly, because gnu/linux is not unix
It's far, far sillier to use "GNU's Not Unix lol :DDDD" as an excuse for shit design.
>>51222898
>>51226109
> mfw what used to be normal discussion on the Internet is no longer allowed
I just want to call someone a stupid nigger and get away with it :/
>>51226126
>"Failed to start Reboot"
>"Dependency failed for Reboot"
>can't reboot because reasons
kek
>>51225466
Have you ever used one of its multiple APIs? And are you saying bloat isn't a valid criticism of software? Were you born in 2000?
Bloohoohoo report it to the fucking FBI if you care so much about it. Oh wait.
>>51226177
Thank God for imageboards.
>>51226186
Haha you didn't need logging or a disk sync anyway. Those are for greybeards.
>>51226171
>Change for the worse is no good.
I wish all the systemd wankers and fanbois (whose main argument tends to be "lol luddites" and not much more besides it) finally understood this.
Is there anyone more toxic than Poettering?
Even as an audience member in a live talk he can't stop flaming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0
>>51225452
if may I senpai, what you refer as gnu/linux is not unix I recently start to call it gnu's not unix + linux is not unix
>>51225452
>however, pulseaudio is shit
Not anymore
>>51226222
He's one of these people who actively tries to be a passive-aggressive cunt and then moans to his cultlike following when someone calls him out on it. Ulrich Drepper and Kay Sievers are a great match with him.
>>51226246
le works for me
le i'm not a programmer
le a 500 function api just for writing bytes to a device is sane
>mfw just upgraded from fedora 22 to fedora 23 and everything went smooth as fuck contrary to my past experience with ubango and memebian.
thank you based redhat
>>51226222
Am I supposed to watch an hour-long talk video just to hear Poetterkuck interject at some point?
>toxic
Back to tumblr
>>51226267
He persistently interrupts the dude.
>>51226246
Yeah it improved a lot when Poettering moved on and someone else took over maintaining it.
>>51226222
>DAU - Dumbest Assumable User
Nice term, will subscribe and recommend.
>>51221245
>Open source software is full of toxic people
No shit.
90% of people suffering from freetardation are not suitable for public human contact.
>>51226267
Well, two of my highlights are:
(paraphrased, too lazy to search out the exact points at the video)
>Do you hate disabled people?
>Draxinger points out a bug in some fdo crap, mentions that he checked 5 minutes before the talk if the bug is still in the latest VCS and if there is anything about a fix in the mailing list and found nothing
>Lennart responds something like: "Some random guy who hangs out in our irc channel has a fix for that on his computer. Do some fucking research!"
Poettering is a win32 application programmer masquerading as a systems programmer.
>>51226312
That doesn't really work in English.
It's a pun based on GAU (German for MCA, maximum credible accident)
>>51226109
>Unironically
You are aware that is the most patronizing, crazy shit ever
>homosexuals and women are very emotionally and intellectually fragile beings inferior to us straight men
>if you call something "gay" or say "bitch" they'll have a breakdown and commit suicide!
>what they need is a social structure identical to an all-female group, where tone and etiquette are policed arbitrarily, rather than a male social structure where tone and etiquette policing stop at shows of dominance and submission
>because although men are superior, they suck! masculinity is the worst because it offends ALL women and gays and not just a minority of sheltered first world teenagers!
>>51226109
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
Toxic community is best community.
If you want an all year hugbox where everyone respects your transnegro pronouns fuck off to tumblr.
>>51222898
All those SJW buzzwords. Wew, lad!
>>51222898
All fields are filled with toxic people. News at 11.
>>51226171
kdbus is going away for a while. Turns out it was so bad that the kernel won't accept it without a rewrite.
>>51226594
The problem with kdbus wasn't its actually quality but that it was completely misguided and tried to fix problems of dbus in the kernel instead of fixing their userspace software and design.
![Maya-Angelou2-600x380[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/taSrQ6K.jpg "Maya-Angelou2-600x380[2].jpg")
A long list of brave female whistleblowers in tech have opted to publish anonymous call-outs of endemic harassment and toxicity in the industry, whereas women who have chosen to forgo anonymity like Adria Richards, have faced harassment and termination for drawing well-deserved attention to the issue, and by extension, themselves.
>>51221245
>however this isnt a problem in proprietary communities
>>51226617
dbus shouldn't exist anyway.
>>51221289
>A package involving 69 individual binaries can hardly be called monolithic.
I want to punch whoever wrote this in shit in his fucking face.
>>51226119
Why am I not surprised that this is the best you can do
>>51226860
>muh buzzwords
>>51226091
>>>/reddit/
>>51221245
>Open source software is full of toxic people
That is very problematic. Open source needs to be more sensitive to our needs, and needs to show more love and understanding. Less microaggressions, please.
Come on people, it is the current year!
>>51227277
>tfw assholes can instantly stigmatize almost anyone by pulled-out-of-the-ass accusations of "microagression" and "being problematic"
>>51227277
>Come on people, it is the current year!
It's always $CURRENT_YEAR.
It sure is!
https://archive.is/dgilk
>>51221245
Why the fuck do people love to describe others as toxic so liberally? I've met a few people I'd consider to be toxic. These are people who are so fucked up in the head, so cunning and manipulative that they are able to deceive others, ruin peoples lives, hurt and control them and enjoy every second. Maybe Linus Torvalds is like this but if he is, we don't know about it yet. His personality in Linux mailing lists etc is indicative of nothing more than him being arrogant and very rude, that alone does not make him toxic.
Why are death threats such a big deal? Usually its something like people saying "go kill yourself" which isn't even a death threat and isn't meant seriously. Nor is saying "I'll kill you!" when you're angry with someone. People saying things going into more detail about wanting to kill someone and especially giving away personal information do happen and those are a genuine worry, but not that common.
The open source community is really bad, and because of the personality driven nature of the game, there's no real way to fix the problem.
Everything from Linux to Wikipedia has these shitty problems. It's really sad
>>51227659
Everything was fine until passive-aggressive redditors came along.
>>51225904
No, that's part of the "worse is better" philosophy, in "the right way" you write the best code possible.
It's actually pretty damn stupid to write an OS with a "worse is better" philosophy, but UNIX and Linux both follow it sadly.
>>51227671
And, of course, Ulrich Drepper & co.
jesus christ who really gives a flying fuck if people are rude online?
what the fuck is going on in the world? when did the usefulness of a project, the quality of code and the merits of the contributor start meaning less than the feelings of random people on the internet?
>>51227714
I have a feeling you have things the wrong way around.
At the moment feelings and politics rule the open source community. Most of them have become cults of personality, or filled with power hungry individuals.
In a project driven by quality and merit there should be no point where people start sending death threats, but it's because their egos are at stake that they take resistence to systemd as something to get angry about.
>>51221245
>muh systemd developers
>muh open source community
>muh death threats
>muh feelings
Uriel was right. This is how it all ends.
>>51227680
Stop taking the words of a random MIT faggot literally. The MIT cabal's "only we know the right way" approach brought you the X windowing system. You're welcome.
Unix, like all ken & dmr pieces of software, was written with an emphasis on code quality and legibility because they'd have difficulty maintaining anything less.
I suggest not holding strong opinions on their approach to program design if you haven't read through a large portion of the Unix v6 and Plan 9 and Inferno sources, because those are the crux of the "worse is better" gripe people regurgitate endlessly.
As for Linux, Linus threw in the towel on code quality two decades ago. He'll accept patches improving code quality, but he'll also accept poor quality patches and stupid ideas in the first place, see Red Hat contributors.
>>51227752
FART FART FART FAAAAAAAART FART FART
>>51221245
>hurr muh death threats
Yeah cause someone will actually kill someone because of fucking systemd.
>>51227800
Let me dream...
>>51227761
>see Red Hat contributors
such as?
>toxic community
Yes, a term invented by people who are new to the internet.
They're just words and people crying over them shouldn't be developing.
>>51227752
In a project driven by quality and merit nobody should give a shit about what someone who sends a death threat thinks. Most of these threats come specifically from people who couldn't kill a harmless spider. Do your goddamn job if you're so proud of it.
>>51227834
kay, lennart, greg(?), ulrich
>>51227866
there aren't any death threats anyway.
>>51227219
Hang on, what? For pointing out a logical fallacy in a bullshit argument? Fuck off.
He's objectively wrong. Being a douchebag at either extreme is not the only option, and only an idiot would argue otherwise.
> muh buzzwords
Would you consider yourself a rational, logical person? Because all signs point otherwise.
>>51227874
Holy shit, are you retarded?
>kay, lennart, greg(?), ulrich
3 of those don't contribute anything to the kernel and the last one doesn't work for Red Hat.
Please go back to catv or wherever you came from
>>51227890
>kay
>greg
>don't contribute to the kernel
>ulrich
>didn't work for red hat
>implying i am solely talking about kernel contributions when red hat contributions to anything are disgusting
>People defending the open source community
As somebody who's done both(and still am) work as a open source dev and a propertiey code slave I can assure you two things.
Don't ever expect people in opensource to meet deadlines, people will meet deadlines a lot more often when their job is on the line.
Opensource is full of people who say "fuck it it's not my problem", they can easily leave a project after hardcoding a ton of crap in, while you can leave a company after fucking the code base up, usually people won't purposally fuck things up because at the end of the day when something goes wrong in that area/that area needs development they have to deal with it.
Officespaces have less drama than online in the "social coding" area, no employer pays developers to make their code more politically correct unlike what we're all seeing popping up in github with people who don't even know how to code changing comments
>Master and slave to Lead and Followers
>>51227902
>Drepper
>a handful of commits back into 2006
Shouldn't take you too long to point out the miserable code quality of those
>>implying i am solely talking about kernel contributions when red hat contributions to anything are disgusting
nice backpedaling though
>>51227866
Yeah, no one should give a shit, but these are the people making high level decisions for a popular linux distro, so if you don't care what they think, they will still get their way...
>>51227932
>baww why do people working on their free time on software not cater exactly to my needs
>>51227761
Worse is better is more than just code quality, you know this so don't pretend that's all we are talking about.
>>51227961
There's no such thing as "worse is better". There is only sensible design and stupid design, and clean code and messy code, to varying degrees.
>>51221305
They didn't like his contributions and he didn't get the hint to go away. He like most people new to the internet also can't seem to take banter, and can't laugh off very impossible and unsubstantiated threats.
>>51227971
There is such a thing, I'm not sure what you are trying to say by pretending it doesn't exist.
Yes, there are sliding scales between simplicity, completeness, correctness, and consistency, but there are philosophies that value them differently.
Prioritizing readability over performance, or correctness in a kernel is not a good idea. Likewise prioritizing politics over code quality is a bad move...
>>51222000
>>51225937
>>51226067
You're all idiots who don't understand a reference. It's from Portal.
>>51228015
Lennart isn't new to the internet.
He's just being an arrogant passive-aggressive cunt without any self-awareness like usual.
He is perfect and can do no wrong and everything is someone else's fault. In this case Linus and the "meanie foss community" is to blame when people give him shit instead of him, because he is perfect and can do no wrong.
>>51227943
Which people exactly? Because I can't see these "toxic" people winning. Specially knowing where Debian is aligned.
>>51228020
Again, it's just a false dichotomy from some MIT fags who were annoyed that 'cat' doesn't have a built-in lisp interpreter. The unix developers had a desire for performance AND readability AND simplicity AND completeness AND correctness AND consistency. There's no dichotomy here. There's nothing about, say, X and runlevels and Berkeley sockets that make them "right way" fixes to "worse is better" software -- indeed, they're pieces of shit pinned onto a decent underlying OS.
Show me some software by the self-proclaimed originators of "the right way" that isn't a buggy clusterfuck with redundant and non-orthogonal features.
It seems that the people accused of following a "worse is better" approach have the greatest appreciation for completeness and software quality.
>>51228091
I like how rob pike has no clue what he's talking about.
I'm getting the aweful feeling a couple of people didn't notice OP was a satirical post.
>>51228115
I'm pretty sure it's a quote rather than satire.
>>51228115
OP quoted someone idiot
![single-piece-of-broccoli[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jGZsVhX.jpg "single-piece-of-broccoli[1].jpg")
>We are hoping to establish a file ending .bro for brotli compressed files, a command line tool 'bro' for compressing and uncompressing brotli files, and a accept/content encoding type 'bro'.
"bro" has a gender problem, even though the dual meaning is unintentional. It comes of misogynistic and unprofessional due to the world it lives in. I received a series of 'bro' jokes in response to my posting about this new feature.
Best to avoid it rather than spending time defending an arbitrary nickname.
>>51221289
>Myth: systemd is monolithic.
Systemd IS MONOLITHIC. The logic behind systemd is re-implement pieces of code from other places for its inability to scale with task delegation. Despite of being comprised of several binaries, it highly depends on one another and the interfaces are not stable, thus they can't be easily re-implemented.. There is no easy escape.
>>51228091
>he unix developers had a desire for performance AND readability AND simplicity AND completeness AND correctness AND consistency
The right way vs worse is better is a question of PRIORITIES, not of what you have a desire for.
For example in correctness vs readability, worse is better choses readability, the right way chooses correctness.
>>51221245
Didn't someone put a bitcoin bounty on Poettering's head?
Reminder that systemd is a fiasco.
Is developed by a elite and only the elite has the time and the funds to check the source code (by a corporation that makes business with the government). Many programs (therefore, Linux distributions) adopted systemd as a way to use other programs that systemd devoured. Making a cascade of dependence from which there is no escape.
Microsoft now could make possible a takeover on Linux thanks to systemD homogenizing Linux and the constant use of BSD license that allows privative software being built atop which strangles the open source community competition against takeovers from corporations ("embrace, extend, extinguish" all over).
Also is a security liability. Their proponents never speak about leaving free to attack the systemd-init that runs every daemon, and the shit is even connected to the network.
As init is the second most powerful program in linux, just below the kernel. The kernel code has so many eyes on it, but not that many on systemd. We bash about openssl/gnutls holes all the day, but none of the holes could be as nearly detrimental as a hole in pid 1, either accidental or intentional. Systemd serves as inetd and listens on network sockets.
The new systemd specific user switching is more insecure because PID1 constantly runs root programs with a massive attack surface. While only systemd-init is PID 1 and the rest of systemd does not run at PID1, everything uses systemd-init functions.
Add that it has su-like functionality in direct contact with programs that are network-facing and you have a security hole.
And remember, Wayland is the second part of the equation because it will check everything you do on Linux, like Nepomuk does on KDE.
Reminder how systemd cost money to my company via bug that's actually a feature. The next was shared from an anon:
systemctl show nonexistantservice
Type that in to your console, and see it spew out a default service description.
From the manual.
>This command is intended to be used whenever computer-parsable output is required.
We interfaced it and had a typo..
Once we realized this, we haphazardly set regex checks, outside normal "$?" check for exit status..
Then we made the mistake to contact the developers to discuss this behavior..
Oh boy, got yelled at and insulted that _our_ shit was broken.
No way to reason, it was what it was.
Asked how are we supposed to check service statuses then, no reply..
Fuck systemd and those assholes, they are doing something which suites them aka RHEL and not the community.
>>51228182
It was literally just two guys clearly joking around in some random irc channel
>>51228185
As far as business is concerned, Linux was already homogeneous before systemd. It's not like Slackware was an enterprise-ready alternative to Red Hat and Ubuntu in the sysvinit days
>>51228199
that reminds me, wasn't there an option to get systemctl to output in a script-friendly format?
I wrote a tiny monitor script if certain services are up or not recently but couldn't find it and ended up just using pgrep
>>51223102
>Prominent FreeBSD developer Kip Macy has been charged with waging a campaign of terror against people renting apartments in a six-unit building he owns. He stands accused of cutting out floor supports to retaliate against a tenant who went to court to keep from being evicted.
>According to San Francisco prosecutors, Macy also shut off the tenant's electricity, disconnected his phone and had workers saw a hole in his living room floor. Other tenants claim the programmer-turned-landlord and his wife broke into their apartment and stole $2,000 worth of belongings. The couple was arrested Tuesday and charged with multiple felonies, including burglary, stalking, grand theft and shutting off service.
This is exactly how I picture the average BSD developer, really.
>>51228233
to clarify: i don't mean a single special-puropse command like show but a some kind of global flag
Daily reminder that systemd is made by MS/Google/NSA to destroy linux and spy on everyone
>>51228244
San Francisco is a terrible place, doesn't surprise me
>>51221245
>>51221245
Should you threaten someone's life over software? No. Unless you're in a movie.
Can you dictate other people's behavior? No.
Concentrate on working on your project, control your own behavior, and you should be fine. You cannot "combat" other people's reactions online. You would just be wasting your time, and overstepping your individual responsibility. Leave policing up to the police, and if it's on the internet, ignore it and shrug it off like every other adult. Leave the social justice to the college dropouts.
![s02e09_480[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0gwpC8E.jpg "s02e09_480[1].jpg")
Over the past few months, I have received an increasing amount of negativity for my work. I want to emphasize that the tooling I create and projects for which I am a contributor were never a part of my full-time job. I gave back to the community for the "love of the game"; I identified problems, and I did my best to improve the experience.
As a human, I recognize there are problems I cannot solve and questions I cannot answer. Recently my projects and projects I participate in have been the victims of vicious attacks and other select unpleasantries. Not only have I been called offensive and derogatory names, but I have also received numerous abusive emails and two death threats in the past three months.
To that end, and for my own personal safety and well being, I no longer plan to shoulder the burden of uncivil behavior alone. If you are interested in maintaining any of my personal open source projects, I thank you.
>>51228086
Ah, did Debian finally reject systemd? Nice.
>>51228570
Top kek. They embrace systemd wholeheartedly and against their own reason. It's now the default init system.
>>51226189
No bloat isnt valid criticism on /g/ because here everything is fucking bloat.
>>51225944
No of course not, these are the kind of people who encounter a bug and then start ranting at people who are trying to help them on IRC.
>>51225809
>I should let other people bully me and stop work on projects I care about
Or, how about you get off your fat ass and contribute to a systemd/PA alternative? Oh wait that will never happen because armchair contributors dont actually do shit.
>>51229011
>what is openrc
>implying openrc isn't already superior to systemd in every single way
>implying that's not also true of runit and daemontools
>>51229145
Okay so go use them, and let the distros that choose to use systemd use systemd. I dont see what the whole shitfest is about.
test
test
how now brown cow?
>>51229246
well said, my man
>>51229175
Every other month, systemd absorbs another program. This means that either the next version cannot run with systemd, or that development outright ceases.
>>51222482
Computer science has basically been the same for 50 years at least at the undergrad level
>>51229350
Not really. Software engineering and database courses changed a lot, and we're no longer queuing at a compute queue to deliver our program written on a punchcard which we can try to run up to 3 times per day.
>>51228760
I found that shit on a Debian VPS, hammering the beneath Gentoo server with some buggy process. It seems lame for the moment. Too young to be widespread as it has been made.
>>51229327
And how does that affect you? If maintainers want to maintain a program they will continue to do so. But they dont in this case, which is their choice. This is how open source works, projects that have contributors survive and those with no contributors die.
botnet is trying to destroy Free Software from within. be alert gentlemen
The fact so many people attack LP and freedom respecting open source software such as systemd just proves that the big bullies at MS are scared and paying shills to FUD just like they detailed in the 1998 Halloween documents.
>>51221305
So his diary is proof of what exactly?
Archived link of the threats or GTFO
>>51231069
>freedom respecting open source software such as systemd
Google/NSA/MS please go
>>51231028
>And how does that affect you?
Oh I don't know maybe the fact that the program literally can't be used anymore you humorously disabled birdworm?
>>51221263
nothing is worse than having to deal with an autist outside of 4chan
>>51231550
Not him, but if every program you use switches to SystemD, then why not look for other programs or maintain your own fork of the programs you like? In the end, it's the upstream dev's call to integrate with SystemD, and not yours. If you don't like it, then look for alternatives or be active on your own.
>>51231028
>And how does that affect you?
haha
>>51228185
correct post except for the BSD license doomsaying nonsense. ask theo how that goes.
>>51228169
What correctness? And again, "correctness vs readability" is another false dichotomy.
>>51232388
>then why not look for other programs
Because there are none by construction.
>or maintain your own fork of the programs you like?
Because I'm a single person, not over 500.
> In the end, it's the upstream dev's call to integrate with SystemD
I.e. the NSA.
>>>/shillhq/
>>51225769
On big projects readability is better than speed.
>>51232917
correct
also, the simple (i.e. readable) thing is usually the fast thing
>>51226171
The only thin I should know from this picture is the utilities part right?
>>51233758
No, with systemd, you're expected to fiddle with every little thing once in a while. Not least because of breakage.
Mundane system infrastructure programs that quietly and obediently do what they're supposed to do are outdated.
>>51221245
Linux users tend to be socially challenged sperglords.
A Linux developer is easily 10 times as autismal as the average user, so there you have the problem.
>>51221305
>The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their 30s and 40s these days.
>boo hoo muh oppression
kek confirmed
PulseAudio broke audio on Linux for at least 5 years. Even death is too nice for that dickhead.
>>51228199
what might the testosterone levels of this creature be? I guess high 100s, low 200s.
>>51229327
I did an Arch install recently and discovered that systemd has a fucking boot loader. I mean what the fuck?
