is there a cross platform game engine out there that actually helps you write a 3d game rather than forcing there paradigm onto you and making you use poop languages like Javascript and Python. Why are all game engines so shit tier ?
Make your own engine, fag.
its a boy or girl pic related?
i cant tell
fuckin katya
Irrlicht, ogre is better, but irrlicht will make you research more to git gud and polish the engine yourself
>>47527256
Katya is a grill
>>47527248
If you dont mind using older engines , look into the idtech engines.
>GPL
>Dedicated community has created binaries for most architectures
>Incredibly fast, especially on today's hardware
>Run on C, C++, and ASM
That being said, the last idtech engine that was GPL'd is from 2004. You can definitely make something impressive out of it, but it wont have amazing graphics by AAA standards. But you still will blow those shitty 'indie' games made on unity out of the water.
>>47527248
Irrlicht for total diy
Unreal Engine 4 - uses C\C++
>>47527362
Ugh... Ue4s actor component architecture is completely garbage. Honestly, I'm a senior software architect and I seriously cringed reading their code. it was pitful. Anything more than 1K mildly complex npcs and your system comes to a complete halt.
Now if you only plan to use ue4 for a small game it's fine, but I can imagine most aaa studios working with ue4 are balling out tears over how bad the performance is at a large scale.
>>47527940
Care to elaborate?
I can't into C++, but I've been using UE4 just fine. Just recently started to decouple behaviors into components. It's similar to how you add whatever the fuck you want to Unity's GameObjects, though not as flexible.
>>47528000
So their main problem is the in humanly large overhead created by instance actor component controllers for even single npc individually rather than clustering npcs together that share similar controllers. This means the cache has to do a (if it was perfectly optimized which it isn't) 4 step operation of unloading the current controller, shifting to the next agent, loading the next controller, and then attaching. This is all due to those fuck wades using virtual tables for absolutely everything performance critical like a 12 year old programmer first learning c++ would.
Next the components themselves are by no means memory efficient. The amount of padding they use is huge. Their t vector class adds an extra 50 bytes for every new allocation on top of your actual object. Remember than 4 step operation I was taking about? Because of this idiotic choice it's more like 20 operations to load a new controller.
And then they only used discrete behaviour trees but that's a much bigger deal that I cant portray my anger about enough in this brief of a statement. Honestly they should have done fuzzy behaviour trees but nooo they're not as user friendly according to ue4 even though the end developer wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between a well disguised fuzzy tree and a behaviour tree.
Finally, sure as hell not least, they use aos instead of soa for the components. That means you have even LONGER cache loading times even if 90% of the npc is exactly the same.
>>47527940
>Now if you only plan to use ue4 for a small game it's fine, but I can imagine most aaa studios working with ue4 are balling out tears over how bad the performance is at a large scale.
That's why most AAA studios are moving to Frostbite 3.
>>47527248
Libgdx is great, but it's more of a framework
>>47527248
I've looked and looked and looked. ioquake3 is the only option.
>>47527248
Just write your own. They don't force you to do anything. It's your choice.
>>47527341
Not OP but thanks for this post. Gonna look into this
>>47528103
I'll add that UE4 would possibly be viable if it didn't require 11GB of disk space just to install the SDK.
>>47528128
This. Why the fuck?
>>47528074
As long as they stay the hell away from ue4 and cryengine I'm happy
>>47528051
I'm honestly incredibly ignorant about what you're talking about, as I'm just a high level language kiddie that loves C#, with some tiny knowledge in C. If all that you say is true, I can only hope that having the engine open to the community allows others to make it better.
As it is, I really like using the engine. It's harder to use at the beginning than Unity, but a lot of its included functionality is very useful and saves a lot of development time. Then again, I'm a complete beginner at this.
>>47528151
>loves C#
What the fuck.
>>47528151
That guy is awesome.
>>47528182
>>47528196
Ah /g/, I do love you.
>>47528182
I dunno man, I just really liked it. I've tried Visual Basic, C#, PHP, C, JavaScript, and C++. For all intents and purposes, working with C# was always a joy. The syntax and its features were really fun for me and easy to use, and I didn't even get into LINQ.
I also liked C a bit, but never really got that much into it. C++ I started learning, but never really liked it all that much. Seeing public C++ code scares the shit out of me, it always looks like a clusterfuck.
I still have some other languages in the backlog, but I have other shit to do before that.
For ue4 for a sec. They tried to do the critic architecture for their component class. It's really obvious they tried because they comment everywhere in the class that it's the critic architecture. Said being it's like they found a list of things you aren't supposed to do with a critic architecture and went through them one by one making sure every single one is in the engine.
Like critic architectures are primarily supposed to be reinforcement learning based.
Ue4's solution? Make all decisions done over discrete Markovian fields. Basically destroys any possibility of every using a reinforcement learner unless you reaaaaally knew what you were doing as an ai game developer.
>>47528240
Pleasure is all mine.
>This is all due to those fuck wades using virtual tables for absolutely everything performance critical like a 12 year old programmer first learning c++ would.
What would you do instead? I have zero C++ exposure and want to learn.
>>47528250
It's cancer.
C#:interface IPoint
{
// Property signatures:
int x
{
get;
set;
}
int y
{
get;
set;
}
}
class Point : IPoint
{
// Fields:
private int _x;
private int _y;
// Constructor:
public Point(int x, int y)
{
_x = x;
_y = y;
}
// Property implementation:
public int x
{
get
{
return _x;
}
set
{
_x = value;
}
}
public int y
{
get
{
return _y;
}
set
{
_y = value;
}
}
}
class MainClass
{
static void PrintPoint(IPoint p)
{
Console.WriteLine("x={0}, y={1}", p.x, p.y);
}
static void Main()
{
Point p = new Point(2, 3);
Console.Write("My Point: ");
PrintPoint(p);
}
}
Sane language:type Point struct {
x, y int
}
func main() {
p := Point{2, 3}
fmt.Println("My Point: ", p)
}
>>47528343
I'd still virtual tables but only for the less performance critical things and leave the rest to require source edits.
There are ways to work around virtual tables with ai controllers though. Bit hard to explain at the moment however
>>47528348
Why would you do all of that in C#?
You could just make a struct like in your second example.
I don't come into /g/ too much, so I don't know if I'm being fucked with or not.
>>47528368
Is it like using strategy and factory design patterns, and then notifying a memory management layer, or with game design is memory so tight you can't do that?
>>47527300
>implying
>>47528374
It's straight off MSDN.
>>47528384
Factories and most design patterns have no business going in game code.
>>47528384
No now a days you have the memory to do that. You've got the idea though
>>47528395
ok ty
>>47528348
>intentionally making the C# look bad
oh well, you can't please everybody.
>>47528408
c# needs no help to look bad!
>>47528395
>It's straight off MSDN.
You can still just make a struct.
>>47527248
Unity lets you use C#, and unreal is C++.
As for the paradigm, that's the whole point of an engine. If you want to do it yourself, do it yourself. Otherwise, pick a paradigm.
>>47528416
It certainly does when you go full retard on it.
>It's straight off MSDN
No surprises there.
>>47528419
Can't make interfaces nice to deal with, though. I can't be bothered to do a comparison there against the same C# snippet, however.
Yeah! You're different, and actually /know/ how to program. Make one yourself. mainstream things are shit because they are good. make sure you don't have any artists or modelers or musicians on your team either. Also code your own OS that it can run on, and graphics drivers. Otherwise you won't get street cred on an anonymous image board
>>47528439
Was your second example automatically an interface without requiring any sort of definition? Seriously asking, I don't know that language.
>>47528450
It's not as if 99% of game engines are absolute shite at all, is it.
>>47528395
>It's straight off MSDN
That doesn't change the fact that you don't have to write any of that crap if you don't want to, hell if that's all you need (which makes no sense, but it's your example), you can just define an anonymous typevar p = new { X = 2, Y = 3 };
Console.WriteLine("My Point: " + p.ToString());
>>47527250
>>47528450
>>47527256
that's what makes it hot
bamp
>>47527248
>>47527248
Frostbite
>>47527341
Where to dl this ?
pump for this >>47531505
>>47527248
who is that cock dock?
>>47527248
>dont'
I don't think you are smart enough to say whether or not a game engine is shit.
>>47527940
What other contemporary general purpose 3d game engine lets you run "1000+ mildly complex npcs" any better than Ue4?
I sincerely doubt that there's any algorithm that's actually an order of a magnitude more efficient than what Ue4 does.
>>47527248
>Why are all game engines so shit tier ?
> ?
>
fuck you faggot
>>47531786
UE is inefficient in every single way and always has been.
>>47528151
>loves
I was once you, Anon. I started in VB6. I eventually switched to VB.NET when it was released, and after a friend showed me how much little I could type using c#, I made the switch.
I did this for years. I tried a few other languages, even worked as a PHP developer. But I always liked C#. I eventually got a job as a an ASP developer with Micro$hit. I did this for years.
However, Microsoft development breeds a culture you'll soon uncover. It's a culture of suits, ties, dress shoes, and slavery. You may work up the corporate latter, but the backstabbing and joe-the-business-guy douchebaggery runs deep my friend. This wasnt one instance or bad experience. I travelled the country as a consultant doing this shit for companies.
One day I discovered Python. What a joy to develop in. I have literally came while rubbing my nipples thinking about how much better my days were after discovering this language and its ease of use.
I quit my $100k/yr job with a consulting company, literally on the spot, as soon as I felt comfortable doing Python. I shit you not, best decision I ever made. I regained my sanity, which you will soon lose. I made more money now than ever, and my shit is actually well coded, free to develop, and not influenced by dickbags.
I was once you, Anon. I learned, though... I learned....
>>47533836
What a joy to develop in.
G O L A N G
O
L
A
N
G
Just use UE4 it works on toasters.
>>47533836
I don't give two shits about Microsoft, I just like the language. If the language is awesome but the environment is hell, I will obviously stop using it but that has yet to happen to me.
I've been very interested in Python though, but I'm obsessed with game development so I've not tried it. C# has worked for me amazingly well, but I need to learn more about Sepples, even though I don't really want to.
What about 2D games?
What is best engine for that?
>>47536723
For 2D? Write your own. Its so god damn simple and endlessly extensible
>>47536723
ioq3
cg_thirdperson 1, make the camera point top-down, and put your world geometry sprites on top of cubes and other shapes. you then get lighting and realtime shadowing (a tough problem in 2D) for free.
>>47536795
But do you know any good libraries I should stick to?
I know I can write my own it's just that I don't know if I'll find that more tedious than fun.
>>47536823
love
I remember having loads of fun with Irrlicht. Though, in retrospect, it's not the best way to get better at programming if you're a beginner.
>>47529756
>ha hah, well memed my friend
>>47536882
I love you too anon
bamp
>>47536906
aww
> third anon
Torque 3D
MIT licensed graphics engine that runs on windows, Linux and Mac.
The only bad thing about it is that even my 4670k and 7970 choke as soon as you turn on lighting effects and shadows.
say I can render all kinds of cubes (:D) in OpenGL
how much effort does it take to architecture sound, input, the game loop etc. from scratch in, say, cpp?
>>47539084
At least do yourself a favour and use something like SFML
>>47531505
>>47531529
google: ioquake and idsoftware
>>47527248
Just write in assembly you retard
>>47527248>>47527248
Don't use engine that doesn't support dx12 you backward living fucks
>>47527248
>Unreal Engine 4, or 3
>Godot
>Polycode
>Torque2D/3D
>idTech
have you considered maybe you're just a fucking retard?
>>47533582
you present no alternative, so I can only assume you know jack shit
>>47539777
Alternative to UE? I already mentioned ioquake3.
>>47531786
I'm a software architect for high architect agent could sdks. I've been working with this stuff for quite a few years now.
I've seen engines that let you do into the millions of npcs without throttling. I've personally designed engines that maxed out at 1.5 million npcs. Hell my colleague worked on frostbite and their limit is in the tens of millions
>>47541311
>>47541311
>>47541311
Could list off a few sdks*
As I've said fuzzy flcs are the shit when it comes to performance. Waaaaaaay better performing than behaviour trees. And they're highly parrallizable unlike behaviour trees. Behaviour trees diverge too much to be useful for gpgpu scenarios like a lot of these higher end engines do.
Frostbite did most of their ai decision making on the gpu and it scaled beautifully.
Now path finding is entirely different but I don't consider path finding ai in the slightest.
Note that while I said that it scales to those numbers it sure as hell isn't playable. You'd have a really hard time making anything playable with more than 40K npcs or so
>>47527248
SDL/SFML + OpenGL, irrlicht, ogre
I can provide citations and references upon request for warp divergence reduction flc controllers for games. Shits mad interesting
>>47541311
>>47541379
In what context do games require millions of npc to be processed simulataneously? The closest thing I can think of would be Warcraft-style RTS that have thousands of characters simultaneously.
>>47541643
Not games. The actual engine itself. In a game you could never get that to happen
>>47541379
I am working on an opengl engine (just sfml for windows, music... bullet for physics) and have absolutely no knowledge about ai (thats the next thing I will move to when I have the physics/rendering part done)
Could you recomend some good places to learn about that?
Most a resources I found are usually about basic things like A* pathfinding etc.
You are talking about interesting things (like how to set up the actual data for ai etc...) so I would like to learn more
>>47541686
I'm currently writing a book on artificial intelligence software architecture but I can answer any questions you have :D
>>47541773
as I said right now I have no knowledge about ai so I dont really have good questions to ask. I am looking for some place where I can start to learn all that, some good resources you know (or are using for your book? dont forget to post title on /g/ when you have finished)
>>47541818
I get asked this quite a lot. These are the books I recommend to reapply some very advanced AI topics to video games.
###[Bayesian Reasoning and Machine Learning](http://web4.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/D.Barber/textbook/131214.pdf)
###[Convergence and Knowledge Processing in Multi-Agent Systems](http://www.springer.com/us/book/9781848820623)
###[Computational Modeling of Narrative](http://www.morganclaypool.com/doi/abs/10.2200/S00459ED1V01Y201212HLT018)
###[The Third Workshop on Computational Models of Narrative](http://narrative.csail.mit.edu/cmn12/proceedings.pdf)
>>47541773
What are some good books on artificial intelligence for noobs?
I want to get my feet wet.
Also my pussy.
>>47541870
thanks based anon
>>47541882
If you're a noob DO NOT try to learn game AI from a book. That is by far the worst thing you can do.
What I recommend for this is try to create your own version of Wumpus World if you're an extreme noob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt_the_Wumpus)
And then eventually try to create your own version of the sims. Doing this part usually takes about 4 months and is brutally hard. But trust me, this is by far the best way you can get your feet wet with the subject.
And if you ever need help, there are TONS of open source versions of the sims to give you guidance.
>>47541910
Can you expand on that?
Why not learn from a book as a noob?
>>47541870
Not the anon you're replying to, but thanks.
When do you think you will be done with the book?
Have you decided on the title?
I'm guessing a name is too much to ask for, but could you give me your initials so I know that it's the one?
>>47541942
Because when people say they want to learn from a book, it means that they want to learn all the theories and math and not how to reapply it (The actual hard part.) Learning from a book when you're late game is awesome because at that point you already have the knowledge base you need to understand how to reapply the theories you're learning. But doing this right from the get go? That's setting yourself up to fail
>>47541959
I'll do even better. I have some of the unedited version available online:
http://dotpowered.net/news/8
http://dotpowered.net/news/12
The only reason I posted those online was because I wanted to know what subjects actually would interest my readers and what in turn I should write about.
I'll certainly post the book to there when the time comes.
>>47541969
You're right anon thanks.
You really know what you're talking about.
I hope I can read your book one day.
>>47542004
Awesome man, thanks.
>>47542004
How much time does one need to become a master of AI?
>>47542004
I love you even more, thank you again
>>47542102
I'm sure as hell not :P
I've only been studying the subject for 3 years now. I did real time global illumination for 6 years before that though. Becoming an AI master is a bit of an oxymoron since the field is moving too quickly. If you become too specialized, you're left behind. Not specialized enough? No one wants to hire you. (Atleast from what I've seen in research. I never work with the game industry directly. I pity people that do :/ )
>>47533338
He's probably French. I can smell French by just the fact that they put spaces before commands, periods and question marks.
>>47542167
I'm not interested in the game industry though, my thing is robots baby.
>>47542281
It takes about a year to get up to speed, and about 2 years to be extremely comfortable with the subject in that regard
Godot
Also... Shameles... I commonly post development blogs on my new AI engine to a dedicated subreddit >.> http://www.reddit.com/r/dotofficial/
>>47541602
I have no idea what you're talking about but I appreciate your enthusiasm. You and your ilk make /g/ a good place.
What engine does /g/ recommend to someone who wants to build a game for more programming experience? I don't really care much about a game in all honesty but it seems like a good way to learn libraries, APIs, and just generally put knowledge to work.
what's wrong with unity?
>>47544066
If you want to build a game for people to play, then you use an engine
If you want to build a game for learning, you do it yourself
>>47544098
Thanks. The concept just seemed a bit too intimidating but I suppose I could just try to make a clone of an existing simple game.
>want to use a game engine
>without adopting its paradigm
>literally not knowing what a game engine is
>or how one is supposed to function
>>47544186
A game engine I believe is a series of tubes.
>>47527248
My company is getting ready to market an engine that focuses on performance and mechanics over post processing and useless cinematic shit; hell we got three of our prototypes to run on Dreamcast at 55-60FPS. On PC [Windows/Linux] and Nvidia Shield, one of the selling points will be that ALL games will live in the same ecosystem as if each was the expansion of the other; think what Garry's Mod did for Source Engine but all games do it. I'm only in charge of leading two 16-man QA teams in conjunction with 5 other guys doing the same so we get to check out all features as they come in.
[I'm allowed to give out vague descriptions so ask me anything and I will answer if possible]
>>47545602
Do you incest?
>>47545602
Is it Free as in Freedom?
