why the fuck start ups only want ruby on rails developers ?
>>45793352
these days it's nodejs. kek
>>45793379
>nodejs
go away
not sure
ive worked at two start ups
one of them preferred ruby
one of them preferred python
post website of the startup
ill show you whats wrong
>>45793352
because they don't know better which is the same reason for lots of comapnies be using java for almost everything too.
They look around to see what the other guys are using so they use it too, instead of debating about the current problem and the pros and cons of the available tools
>>45793352
What do startups even do?
What do they accomplish, besides making money?
Because Ruby was made in Japan (TM). It's exotic faggot shit.
It's hipster technology. They create an internet startup with Rails or Node.js on top of MongoDB. They have a .io domain with a name that normally ends in -er but they removed the 'e'. They code in Sublime Text on their Macbooks while sitting in Starbucks. When people ask about their work they refer to themselves as a "code artisan".
>>45794867
>code artisans
Holy shit, it's probably for the good.
If you asked me I would say they should pass a law to make it illegal for web devs to be considered actual programmers.
I think it's better for everyone that they make up their own retarded name to separate them from the people that actually know how to program.
>>45794788
>besides making money
topkek
What does everyone think of asp/c# for web
>>45794890
>If you asked me I would say they should pass a law to make it illegal for web devs to be considered actual programmers.
Before all of that I'd make it so you need a license to be allowed to use a computer. Something like ECDL or so. You don't have that, you are not allowed to buy, operate, or use a computer, the same way you are not allowed to buy or drive a car.
>>45794891
>>45794994
>Sarcastic asshat answers
Still don't know what startups do.
>>45795098
just another name for a small or growing business. Its really not a big deal
>>45795098
"Startup" is a buzzword, generally meaning a small, likely venture capital funded company.
>>45795098
It's where washed up devs from big brother google go when they are sick of low pay.
>>45795492
Do they pay little to developers at google?
Aren't they making tons of money? I would assume every developer makes at least 100k a year there.
>>45795514
They do, people on /g/ have never held down a job so they are mainly talking out of their ass
>>45795526
Damn...
and that movie made Google look like the perfect place to work as a dev.
>>45795564
The perks may be nice, but they expect you to put in massive hours because of it. They pay you pretty well, no doubt, but its not for everyone.
Why is /g/ so autistic about this? Startups use Ruby and Python and other "web dev shit" because they need to get products out the door fast.
It doesn't matter if it's inefficient from an engineering standpoint because processing time is cheap compared to developer time and (most importantly) fundraising time.
>>45794739
More like nodevjs amirite?
>>45795564
It is a nice place to work. It's just hard to get your foot in the door and the hours you are expected to work are pretty high. Yes the pay is comparatively low but you also have a lot of things provided to you through benefits.
>>45794739
Node.js is pretty good.
>>45796042
>>45796042
this.
>>45793352
>why the fuck start ups only want ruby on rails developers ?
Do they? I'm working at a startup and I'm the only guy there who knows anything at all about Ruby (and I've never used Rails). You seem to be confusing "startup" with "Shitty company started by a college kid with no clue"
>>45794765
Java is used out of sheer momentum. Giant systems were written in it these past 15 years when there was no better alternative (is there a better one now? .NET maybe?), and you can't just disregard all the old code and move on to whatever is hot at the moment. Also, the ecosystem is very stable and well established which is what corporations like. There's been so much money put into developing it - it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
>>45794765
>le java is shit meme.
You realize Java is one of the most mature, stable languages, right? You think customers give a fuck what 'stack' your company is using?
>>45796465
Why does that "mature" language doesn't have properties or unsigned integers?
>stable
Well, progress is often more important than "stability", especially in new companies I'd imagine.
>>45796501
Stability is something that facilitates progress, what is your point?
>>45796465
No man... you know... I read yesterday that pfff.... google and facebook and I think Microsoft too are now throwing out all of their programming and are hiring a bunch of Haskell programmers so I don't know man. I think they are going to make a Windows 10 with Haskell 10 man probably, i don't know but they should because I don't know anything else man.
>>45796520
>java
>progress
Huh?
I know they try to fix the mess slowly (e.g. they added first-class functions recently), but Java is still basically the same flawed language it was always. And it's way behind many other languages, such as D, Rust, Go or C Sharp.
And stability is the opposite of progress.
>>45796501
confirmed for never shipping production code.
Language doesn't matter anon, use whatever is the most comfortable for you and your team. IF you come across many instances where that language was a bad choice, then you can decide to change.
>>45796569
My code is actually running on a website.
Might I firstly point out that you contradict yourself by saying they don't matter and one should use whatever is more comfortable.
That said, languages are tools made for specific purposes, under specific constraints, and it does matter to choose a tool suitable for the problem at hand. E.g. nobody is writing website backend code in C now days.
Also, I really hardly see anything comfortable about Java, especially considering the alternatives. Java is just the kind of tool that you use because:
a) other people do;
b) libraries/frameworks/APIs you want to use (e.g. crap from Attlasian, WSO2).
>IF you come across many instances where that language was a bad choice, then you can decide to change.
Wow. Good luck rewriting a project half way through.
>>45795098
>Still don't know what startups do.
1. you failed college and cant code for shit
2. the only job you know and can get is flippin burgers at the local fastfood joint
3. team up with two of your autistic friends who also cant code and failed college
4. create an app with a catchy name like Wankr
5. the app is basically a button which if you press it it calls a random person from your phonebook and calls him a 'wanker' using a robot voice.
6. haha lol so funny epic meme social media
7. spam that shit everywhere, even post a link of it on a post-it and staple it to your mom's forehead
8. by sheer stupidity and accident you end up with >10k users
9. suck dick for an article on kotaku.com or some nerd shit shill site like that
10. some major company will buy you out for $1m dollars simply because they dont want anyone else to buy you out (at this point these fags are desperate, they buy anything that brings in a userbase) and hires you and your team.
11.????
12. congrats you're now officially a Software Developer/Engineer working for the company who bought your startup although you have no skills whatsoever.
13. codemonkey your life away while being forced to speak to code workshops and startup meetings for the rest of your life because seriously thats all you know.
14. marry a 8/10 qt pie who will turn into a 3/10 ham planet after the first kid and get a big house which you'll pay for for the next 35 years.
15. enjoy your corporate american dream.
>>45796758
>8. by sheer stupidity and accident you end up with >10k users
Isn't that more because the target audience is composed of retards?
>>45794987
>Before all of that I'd make it so you need a license to be allowed to use a computer.
Communists and Hitler would approve.
>>45796662
>My code is actually running on a website.
>>45796758
5/5 bretty good
>>45795601
>processing time is cheap compared to developer time
No, it isn't.
Startups produce pleb-tier products for the most part. Pleb-tier products that can make them very rich, but pleb-tier nonetheless.
>>45796520
>google and facebook and I think Microsoft too are now throwing out all of their programming and are hiring a bunch of Haskell programmers
lol. Nice joke.
>>45796877
Get a job first before making assertions as though today is opposite day or something.
>>45796569
>Language doesn't matter anon
Can you imagine how long it would take to write facebook in brainfuck?
So language does matter.
>>45796983
>IF you come across many instances where that language was a bad choice, then you can decide to change.
learn to read
>>45797033
learn to write
>>45796877
>>45796946
Depends dunnit? If your product is a website, REST API and app, then processing time is probably utterly immaterial and fuck it, first to market so developer time is important.
If on the other hand, you're dealing with some sort of distributed data processing (big data yo') then processing time is probably pretty fucking important and you might want to spend some time worrying about how quickly your inner loops take and where your lock contention is.
>>45797096
This is true, but when I think of some fags working at a startup, I think of the former.
>>45797167
I know people working at both types, and I'm working at a third type where it's either C (because hardware) or Python (because that's what they decided) and I still do Ruby because we deal with stuff like Puppet & Ruby.
Is SQL and Ruby the way to go if you want to start learn coding?
>>45797251
Jesus, no. SQL is a 1970's clusterfuck of epic proportions, and Ruby isn't a good starter language: I say that as a guy who likes Ruby.
Honestly, despite the fact I don't particularly like it personally, Python is a good language to start with.
>>45797251
Start with Python or C, or maybe Scheme.
>>45797276
>>45797291
I mean, I know some code, that was taught to us at school, that being C# and bit of jerking around in mysql, but that's it.
I realize that these are pretty worthless applying to anywhere, that's why I was wondering.
How does python compare to C#, and is it sought after if I want to get a job?
>>45797276
>Ruby isn't a good starter language
>Python is a good language to start with.
>>45797276
Ruby (for desktop, not Rails) is a easier language to learn than Python imho
>>45797317
>is C# sought after if I want to get a job
>>45797317
Probably Java or C# if you're an average programmer just looking for a job.
>>45797317
C Sharp is far from useless. For comparison, read the wiki page about both, And, yeah, you can get a job with Python, mostly in web dev.
>>45797317
>How does python compare to C#, and is it sought after if I want to get a job?
No no, you're thinking about this all wrong. The trick isn't knowing "a" language, it's knowing how to program and being able to pick up a new language quickly.
I only say don't start with Ruby because things like block arguments uses odd syntax (compared to more traditional languages) and it tends to be a mix of OOP & functional, and if you don't understand those concepts it's just going to make your head hurt.
So worry more about the concepts, first. Python is a nice gentle introduction to them.
>>45797251
no.
If you want to learn coding start with completing every MIT open courseware that has to do with programming or computer science.
Once you do that, you'll have a pretty good idea on what to do next.
>>45794953
We use it in our shop. Love it. Look up NancyFx while your at it. You won't be disappointed.
>>45797324
Sorry but's true. Try explaining the difference betweenarr.map{ |d| "#herp{a}derp" }
andarr.each{ |d| "herp#{a}derp" }
or even try explaining all of that syntax to a beginner, for that matter.
>>45797358
I only say don't start with Python because things like white-space and scoping it uses odd syntax (compared to more traditional languages) and it tends to be a mix of OOP & functional, and if you don't understand those concepts it's just going to make your head hurt.
>>45797398
Whatever. You have a hardon for Ruby, that's fine, fanboy all you like. I like Ruby too, much more than Python, but the difference is I'm not a fanboy.
Also there's not much functional in Python; it only just got lamba expressions, for Christ sake.
>>45797425
>You have a hardon for Ruby, that's fine, fanboy all you like
I hate Ruby, I find it disgusting, I just hate Python more.
>>45794739
>go away
As much as I would rather sodomise myself with a salad fork than use NodeJS, it's the trendy shit like now.
Like we saw with MongoDb, there are a lot of startups that are going to dig their graves with this shit.
>>45796758
>suck dick for an article on kotaku.com
But I don't have boobs :(
>>45797441
>there are a lot of startups that are going to dig their graves with this shit.
They really aren't, they just hire java devs to slowly replace their nodejs stack and instill a constant dread in their currently node developers.
>>45797398
I agree. I think basic or pascal is good for a learner language. You first learn programming constructs, data structures, operating complexity etc. Then you can pick up C and ASM to understand lower level operations. Finally move on to more complex or specialist languages Java python LISP Haskell Cobol. I like ruby for writing quick script like tasks such as code generators or database load programs.
>>45797393
First you write it like thatarr.each do |d|
puts "herp #{a} derp"
#puts "herp" + a + "derp"
end
Then you explain that map and each is the same thing, the difference is that with map you can easily modify all elements (map(&:capitalize))
>>45797494
>pascal is good for a learner language
I prefer Pascal 2.0, also known as C#.
>>45797441
MongoDB has its place. I used it (over five years ago now, damn) to store and analyse syslog data in real time; it did it admirably. It's not the fault of the tool that some people have tried to use it inappropriately and then discovered they couldn't fit a square peg into a round hole.
Now if you want to see a real disaster in action, look at people who've used CouchDB and regretted it. Chef regretted it almost instantly and have ONLY JUST managed to excise that shit from its codebase after nearly 4 years.
>>45797495
>Then you explain that map and each is the same thing
Well it isn't (subtly) and once you start to explain the difference you have to get into functional programming concepts. I'm just suggesting that it might be better for a beginner to concentrate on things like basic boolean logic or simple loops before they delve that.
>>45796662
>My code is actually running on a website.
I guess that's probably better than most of /g/, but I'd hardly call that a qualifying statement.
>>45797251
Ruby is a bad place to start because it has a lot of features that would make it hard to learn other languages. As much as I hate to say, I would recommend either C# or Java to get a grasp of OO, and then to move to a more functional language (Like Haskell or Lisp) so you have a grasp of both paradigms.
Once you know both paradigms well, it is easy to pick up mostly any language after that.
In the meantime, knowing SQL is always a good thing. Even if it really does show its age, it is used almost everywhere.
>>45797679
I guess.
I worked 5 months at my company on this project.
>>45794739
I don't get /g/'s hate for web devs. I've worked and been at web dev start ups and the guys that work there were very smart and were doing crazy stuff. Maybe if the designer of the site called himself a software engineer I could see it, but otherwise it's either the same or more mentally interesting than your average CRUD Java job.
>>45796520
>google and facebook and I think Microsoft too are now throwing out all of their programming and are hiring a bunch of Haskell programmers
link pls :^)
because the startup has to deliver something to users really quickly and can only afford a few devs to do it.
the startup also doesn't really know what their requirements are, or at least they know they'll change a lot.
if you need to get a website up and running in a very short time and then tweak and change it, rails is a great choice.
you can burn through several months of java dev with a team of several devs and not have much to show for it when you're just starting out
now, five years later, will the rails code still be in production? no fucking way. it will have been discovered to be too slow or will have been re-architected into oblivion.
but in 5 years the guys who started with rails might have lived long enough to move on to something else (maybe even java frankly although they will probably do scala or jruby first)
>>45794867
underrated post
>>45797373
mfw this is sort of what im' trying to do
>>45798662
>hate for web devs
It's like deciding your hate blacks. You don't really, you just certain percentage that run gangs cause crime.
I don't hate "web devs", but the web devs that are most visible to me are the web devs that continually contact me with broken English, advising "to upgradation the codes", attaching .php files and asking me to copy them to servers because my multiple efforts to school them on how to use Filezilla ended with an agreement that it's too hard for them.
>>45798725
Rails devs use vim though. They're the reason vim made a comeback in the past years.
>>45794867
So true it hurts.
>>45798755
They shouldn't, Emacs Ruby tooling is great.
learn javascript. It's the c++ of the web
>>45797528
>MongoDB has its place. I
Yeah I'm totally not disputing that. It's like the OS argument - as much as I'd always build a new web service on Linux or *BSD, it's still Windows for domain and mail services. Right solution for the problem and all.
But MongoDB HAS become, to a lot of hipsters, the right solution to every problem, and it's to their detriment.
Need to store financial data for a group of people, must be completely consistent and accurate at all times? MongoDB.
Was this thread started 5 years ago?
Ruby is old a shit now. The new meme language is Go.
>>45798953
Maybe online, but job wise at start ups it's all about a MEAN stack
>>45798953
>The new meme language is Go.
where?
>>45799007
Nah. There's still far more Rails in SF and SV. Even on Hacker News Rails still dominates the polls. It's still the best framework to get something up and running quickly.
>>45793352
gay shit
Where's the love for Laravel!?!?!
>>45799044
Flask is.
Node.js is pretty decent for what it is and I think a lot of the hate towards it is irrational.
Better than PHP anyways.
>>45799129
Nope the asset pipeline and caching support is way better in Rails and make it a lot faster to get something serious running quickly. flask-assets is crap in comparison.
>>45799089
Laravel is great. Used it once and I really liked, definitely my go to framework when I have to work with PHP.
>>45799143
Node is hated largely because retarded developers try to use it for everything because it's all they know.
It's the same reason so many people fucking despise Java now.
>>45798745
Wait, people this stupid get paid to make web sites?
>>45794867
best fucking post. I will suck your dick.
>>45794867
>code artisan
>>45799190
>not javascrpt ninja or rails rockstar
>>45795514
Most devs at Google easily make more than 100k a year, but that's nothing compared to start up acquisition money. 100k a year doesn't get you much in SV or the nice parts of SF either.
>>45794867
>>45799225
>working for free or peanuts on the off-chance that your startup gets acquired
The lottery sounds more appealing.
>>45799257
kek. A lot of startups in SV are paying just as much as Google. There's a ton of VC money floating around.
>>45799270
Yup, even paid interns or junior devs get paid pretty well.
>>45799257
it definitely ain't for peanuts.
How easy/difficult is it to find a job as a web developer/programmer in silicon valley and how much experience is needed to land a job?
>>45799225
Acquisition is only the outcome of some ~5% of startups. That might even be a generous estimate. The vast vast vast majority of startups never land an investor in the first place and die within weeks or months of formation.
This is necessarily including the half-hearted startup attempts, but if we don't count them then the occasional Facebook or Twitter that came out of a half-hearted - or at least ill-conceived - startup attempt wouldn't count either and that'd fuck up the statistics even more.
If you join a startup at random, you should have an expected return of whatever is guaranteed and nothing more. If you join a startup based on a good team, business model, leadership, etc... then you have higher probability and thus possibly greater expected value.
Quora is a great example of all the right pieces coming together and the puzzle turning out to be a stinking pile of horse shit - leadership that (on paper) should be able to turn anything into a billion dollar industry, a sharp team of developers, an aggressive vision, and yet impossible to monetize after like 4 years burning through investment capital.
>>45799295
Those stats include non-SV locations and most people will still do it anyways. Getting decent funding in SV right now is ridiculously easy.
>>45799328
Getting funding for a *half-baked idea* has always been pretty easy since the Paypal mafia emerged. They've been a perpetual wealth-generating machine since they got bought out. The problem is that you won't keep getting funding if you can't turn your business into something profitable unless you have irreproachable leadership (e.g. the case at Quora). Nobody wants to believe that success is like lightning, so anyone who's made a billion on Facebook *must* be able to do the same thing every Monday morning on the toilet while solving a crossword puzzle.
There are a lot of startups in Silicon Valley (and you're right, outside) that never get off the ground. These are typically cooked up by brogrammers like the ones you might have seen in Silicon Valley who, I swear to god, are real people who don't seem to want to kill themselves.
>>45799168
Hipsters. Same reason people hated Ruby. I'm glad they're gone.
Your first language has to be C. After learning C, which should take only a week or two. You should decide what you want to do, webdev, network, machine, or app. If you decide on Machine level, then you need to brush up your maths. Network security is hot, because every company is running archaic shit. App is popular, because of the booming smartphone market, so you can learn Java, and JS to help you in Apps. Just depends what you want to learn in programming. Programming is not hard, deciding what you like is the hardest thing.
>>45799937
>your first language has to be ____
this is what autism looks like, people.
>>45799951
This is what autism looks like, anons.
>>45794890
Why would you not consider full-stack web devs to not actually be actual programmers? I don't understand how programming in a high level language like Ruby precludes from the 'programmer' label?
>>45794867
That's a fucking hilarious and scarily perfect description.
>>45799937
A U T I S M
U
T
I
S
M
>>45796941
He clearly was joking, you fucking moron.
>>45793352
Startups don't have many resources to spend on anything. RoR helps you get your product working quickly and easily. The product quality suffers as it gets more complex, but that isn't much of a worry to a company that might not even be in business tomorrow.
I recently worked at a company that is reworking their product(s) away from RoR and towards Clojure. The original rails app worked great, but the code is now a mess because the company grew and the product got more complex.
>>45797434
>tfw ruby is my first and only language so far
:^(
>>45800237
Its a good thing, it was the highest earning skill to have on your resume.
>>45800237
Well if both Python and Ruby are ugly languages, then what do I use?
>>45800339
Java... lol
>>45800339
C and Java. Python is good for webdev stuff or network. Its literally a language for crackers and hackers.
>>45800339
I was not in the conversation prior to that comment.
I'm a novice, but I think a lower-level language like C and Java have great employment opportunities. I'm learning Ruby/Rails/HTML/CSS/JS to hopefully break into the industry as a full-stack web dev. Pray 4 me.
>>45800346
>>45800352
No, I mean what do I use as a shit web hacker/script kiddie language with local computing possibilities?
>>45800339
If you had to choose, JavaScript and Java.
Luckily, we are allowed to know more than two languages, and any others you know on top of that are an asset. Pretty much, if you get work with a language like Lisp, you are incredibly lucky, but you won't find many jobs like that out there.
>>45800371
Learn HTML5, not HTML. HTML5 is picking demand, because it recently got approved from the W3C. Learn Java/JS/CSS/HTML5. This should help get better job offers.
>>45800047
Back end web is no problem. I have an issue with people who put together WordPress sites being called "programmers".
>>45800389
JavaScript. Node can be used locally for a lot these days, about 30% of Node applications have nothing to do with building a server it seems.
JavaScript also works on pretty much everything.
>>45798662
I don't hate web devs, I just think that the work is stupid. 99% of the time it's just writing glue code for some CRUD app.
>>45800339
C#/Java
F#/Scala
Clojure
>>45796520
>Stability is something that facilitates progress
No, stability is literally the enemy of progress. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and so it'll never be improved.
>java
Kek
>>45800339
There's nothing particularly wrong with either Ruby or Python. One you've learned a few languages it becomes obvious that all languages are ugly and suck donkey balls. Of course, some suck slightly more or less than others, but as long as you aren't using Brainfuck or voluntarily starting with MUMPS or PHP or someshit you'll be fine.
>>45800399
Thanks, will do. How big should my portfolio be? (I have no CS degree so I've been told to just make a portfolio of projects.)
Can you give me an example of one or two projects that would be sufficiently challenging to get me an interview for a junior software engineering position in full-stack web development? I'm trying to gauge how big these projects should be. Obviously I don't want to make a FizzBuzz machine, but I don't think I could make a web app to cure cancer either. Thanks.
>>45800505package main
import(
"fmt"
)
func main() {
for i := 0; i < 100; i ++ {
go func() {
fmt.Println(i)
i++
}()
}
>>45800505package main
import(
"fmt"
)
func main() {
c := make(chan int)
for i := 0; i < 100; i ++ {
go func() {
c <- i
}()
}
for i := 0; i < 100; i++ {
fmt.Println(<-c)
}
close(c)
c <- 5
}
>>45800461
You want progress in what you're creating, not necessarily the tools by which you're creating.
>>45800536
What's wrong with you? Go even comes with a code formatter so no one has to deal with your shit.
>>45800572
check my //g/o/de
>>45800523
Pick up an open source project, and contribute. Also just create random apps, and do webpages of your own that have sophistication.
>>45800572package main
import(
"time"
"fmt"
)
func main() {
c := make(chan int)
for i := 0; i < 100; i ++ {
go func(i, x int) {
time.Sleep(time.Duration(i) * time.Second)
c <- i
}(i, 5)
}
for i := 0; i < 100; i++ {
fmt.Println(<-c)
}
select{}
}
>>45799291
Forge a Stanford degree and you should be golden.
>>45796814
Sheer and wide-spread spread stupidity
>>45800584
>sophistication
You mean sophisticated content or code?
>>45802681
>sophisticated content
if you can achieve this you won't need to get yourself tied up with a startup
>>45799291
Start your own projects and make a portfolio website
>>45800523
Anything is better than nothing. Try cloning websites or functionality of website you like. For example, an HTML5/JS chatroom might sound like a stupid unnecessary project but doing something like that shows a lot about what you know and can do.
>>45794756
datarobot.com
What's wrong with it?
>>45796758
>wankr
wankr.io is available.
>hey mate what are you doing?
>just wankring a bit
>nice, wanna wankr me?
>what's your wankr?
>john wankrioo
>>45803674
>sharing your wank sessions with friends
creeeeeeeeeepy
>>45803702
We can make it acceptable, if we try hard enough. Homosexuality was considered illegal everywhere not even 100 years ago y'know.
>>45803728
homosexuality isn't something you get accustomed to, nor is legality analogous to cultural norms. You don't fight for cultural norms the way you do legal status.
