General retrocomputing hardware and software discussion. Get help, give help, show off, shoot the shit, discuss your hobby.
Welcome: Windows 1.x-3.x/9x/NT, MS/PC-DOS, OS/2, Classic Mac OS 1-9, Amiga, 8-bit home systems, CP/M, Legacy Unix platforms, anything pre-1999 you can possibly think of
Tolerated: Windows 2000, Windows Me, OS X on PowerPC systems, GNU/Linux (relating to retro hardware)
Tolerated, but discouraged: Retro consoles (there's /vr/ for that guys), DOS game emulation (/vr/)
pls go: XP, OS X on Intel systems
>daily reminder that /retro/ is a no bullying zone
>daily reminder that you can filter tripfags you don't like for whatever reason so we don't have to hear your whining
>>43116720
First for the IMSAI 8080 and it's 20 expansion ports.
>>43116720
Maybe it's time to take the old Armada out again and mess with it.
>>43116960
Just look at this sexy front panel. It's the only thing you need to use this machine if you're a REAL Programmer. 8080 and Z80 assembly languages are so easy to learn, and there are just so many mnemonics to opcodes conversion table available.
>>43117011
I should really order a new screen and battery for mine.
It's sitting under my desk with a screen held on with toothpicks, superglue, and epoxy.
>>43117125
Ouch. Mine has a Pentium II 366 MHz. I got 2000 installed on it right now.
>>43117151
Mine has a pentium II in it too. Currently it has XP on it, but I'll probably downgrade to ME once I have time to work on it.
>>43117018
It would be nice to have one of those, too bad they're rare as fuck.
What's the best way to run SSH on 286? Is it difficult to obtain Ethernet adapters for ISA nowadays?
>>43117178
Is yours the same speed as mine? I ran XP on it for a while. If you have decent performance with XP, then stick with it. If I need the wireless card to actually work, then I have to use XP. It's not really that slow with XP but I switch the OSes a lot. 2000 runs pretty fast on it. I have also installed 98 SE, NT 4, and Damn Small Linux on it before.
I just ran 3DMark 99 Max on my new card and got 2237 3DMarks. My old card got 634 3DMarks,
>feelsgoodman.jpg
>>43117011
I don't know, maybe I'm almost tempted to install Debian or gentoo on it even though I hate Linux. If I do, I'll use an old fashioned WM like fvwm, windowmaker, or motif.
>>43119471
>>I'm almost tempted to install Debian or gentoo on it
+1 good idea
>>even though I hate Linux
-65535
>not loving GNU/Linux Master Race
>micro$haft sperglord detected
>>43116720
jesus. people actually had to talk to another person in order to order porn. that must've been awkward as fuck.
>>43119909
Naw, you could always find porn on BBSs in early gif formats (non-animated) or in ASCII back in those days.
>>43119892
I need to try it again to make a new opinion. What would be better for this hardware. I thought about installing Debian with windowmaker. Is this a good idea?
>>43119955
Probably either:
Debian GNU/Linux 1.3 (Bo) 1997
or
Debian GNU/Linux 2.0 (Hamm) 1998
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases
>>43117269
You're better off buying a null modem cable and connecting directly via serial to the box, or another Linux box and just SSHing from there
>>43120024
You mean I can't install a modern Debian with an old window manager like Window Maker? This PC was made in 1999 anyway.
>>43119955
I ran a similar setup on my PIII-450 SMP system before it died, ran totally fine.
Fuck off you faggots - implying 18 year olds with 25 year old hardware have anything meaningful to contribute to the world.
Niggers.
>>43120054
Can't hurt to try it.
>>43120113
>implying 18
HA!
... I'm 19
>>43120113
>said Anonymous, as he posted away on an anime image board
the average active enthusiast even in one of these generals has probably contributed more to the world and their respective communities than you have. :^)
>>43120185
I'm 19 too. Waiting for another 19 year old tripfag called VIAMaster or CyrixMan to start posting here.
>>43117206
Well there's alway the reconstitution solution, where you try to make a machine that is as close as possible, replacing the 8080 by a Z80 (they still sell these) which is binary compatible and have more features.
>>43120054
You'll need an i386 build most likely. I tend to think that any release of debian after 2003 would be i686 by default, so good luck finding a release that will work on your ancient hardware.
>>43120592
>>43120054
Debian always hangs during install, no matter what options I try.. I'm installing Slackware 9.0 because I have an old disk of it lying around. If that fails I can try Puppy or DSL since I have disks for those lying around too.
>>43120185
All tripfags are under 20 with very few exceptions.
>>43119955
>I thought about installing Debian with windowmaker.
CDE would be the period appropriate desktop. It was the defacto standard for commercial unixes up until around 2000.
And they just open sourced it, I'm trying to figure out a box to put it on.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
>>43122048
The Linux port of CDE is a hack and a half
Windowmaker might be OK, but mwm or fvwm would be better
>>43122095
there's always gnustep
>>43122095
I just switched to MWM as my desktop because XFCE was being slow on this piece of shit machine (which isn't even retro, it's just shit).
but it's comfy, and I have the whole motif look going on
I'm >>43118104
>>43122197
How about Windowblinds or Astonshell? There are tons of themes for that shit and they all look like they were taken out of 1997.
>>43122197
>which isn't even retro
it may as well be
>>43122048
I messed up my .xinitrc file by trying to switch it to fvwm and fucked something up. I'm too lazy to fix it, so I'm installing Windows NT 4 right now.
>>43122280
pls stahp
ctrl+alt+function key to a virtual terminal and fix the .xinitrc
hell, it should just look like this:xterm &
xclock &
exec fvwm
>>43122302
Too late, already installing NT 4. I might try it again later though. I liked Window Maker okay but it wouldn't change any of the appearance settings without a reboot, I don't know what was up with it. I really had no idea how to change it to fvwm. I'll keep that in mind if I try it again.
Where can I find retrocomputing stuff other than eBay and flea markets? I tried yard sales but people keep nothing older than late 90s stuff.
>>43122380
Get a time machine and go back to 1997. The thrift stores and garage sales were full of 80s gear back then.
>>43122380
it's tedious, but go through the computers section of craigslist every day line by line. if you see something marginally cool, call right away, do not hesitate.
>>43122108
I tried GNUStep.
All the utils were broken in some way (been a while, IIRC the mail client just died when I tried to open it, couldn't get pictures to open from GWorkspace into Preview (Preview threw up some error), etc, etc).
damn shame, since it was pretty nice, vaguely OSX-like (of course)
>>43122318
Would you guys protest if I installed XP on the Armada and possibly posted screenshots? At least the hardware is retro. I guess 2000 is an option too but it would be nice if I could use wi-fi.
>>43122994
>Would you guys protest if I installed XP on the Armada and possibly posted screenshots?
I don't have a problem with XP :^)
XP 4 lyfe!
>>43123101
Maybe I'll do it tomorrow then, I didn't get any sleep last night because I had really bad chest pain and a nasty cough (even after taking a tablespoon of codeine syrup) and I better get some sleep. I would install 98 again, but the Sound Blaster emulation doesn't work with the ESS Maestro2E onboard sound and 98 is slower than even XP on that machine. I might try Slackware with fvwm again too.
Don't know what kind of CPU that armada has, but I think Slackware should work. That's what I would use on an older laptop. Fill her up with as much RAM as possible so a cutting edge modern browser like luakit or uzbl can work.
>>43119291
My system doesn't work with the default config for 01.
The system is pretty ok for what I need it for, but it is not nearly as capable as newer computer when it comes to pushing higher resolutions.
1024x768x32 and high settings can lag a little in contemporary games. Current computer handles 1920x1080x32 and high settings without breaking a sweat.
going to bump with...stuff
>tfw you'll never own one
>tfw even if you did it would be 300% useless because you could never find software for it
>>43125365
I have a dog / Windows 3 thinkpad, does anyone want me to show it?
>>43125398
Dos*
>>43119945
>ASCII
My sides.
Which micro had the best version of BASIC?
>>43117018
Were these programmed completly through the front switches? Or were those mostly for selecting options and debugging.
Surprised this old laptop still works. It was a pain in the ass to get an OS on this machine - No inbuilt floppy drive, no inbuilt CD-ROM, no dock, no boot from USB.
Went the TFTP boot route, first tried Debian but for some reason it wouldn't play nice, Ubuntu worked like a charm. It's got a 802.11b PCMCIA card in it for sweet wireless lynx sessions. :^)
>>43125524
It depend on how much you upgraded your system. You use it like a brit and never upgrade it? Yeah, you'll alway program it with the front panel's switchs. You have a bunch of keyboard, Disk drive, graphic controllers, as well as an operating system that run on this machine? Well if you have/make the tools to program it, then the front panel is only for debugging.
>>43125590
>use it like a brit
RIGHT. First of all, where did this expression come from? From what I remember the English were at the forefront of home microcomputer use when shit started to get real.
>>43125784
>use it like a brit
is a way to say that you use your computer but never pay more stuff for it than the computer itself and a few storage devices, maybe the display. It come from the fact that many British C64 users never bought floppy disk drives for this machine, and continued to use cassettes until the 90s, same with the Amiga (they didn't bought HDD controllers), and many other machines (ZX spectrum, Amstrad CPC, Acorn BBC micro, stuff like that). Yeah, they made a bunch of nice machines, but we're not criticizing the manufacturers, we're criticizing the way of consuming computer goods of the British people. Remmember that British computer users killed their own computer market.
http://www.mikeshardware.com/howtos/howto_connect_ide_hd.html
> The way technicians have always done it in the past with the 40-wire cable was Master in the Middle connection and Slave on the end.
What? I've always connected the master drive at the end of the cable and slave in the middle. I even have IDE ribbons with master printed on the end end connector. I always did it this way, no matter if I used a 40 pin or 80 pin cable.
>>43126317
same, i've always done master at the end
the only difference between 40 and 80 wire cables is the interwoven ground wires that help reduce crosstalk (and therefore allow for faster modes)
Don't forget! The channel of the thread is #/g/retro on Rizon.
>>43126710
Anyone know a good irc client for Windows 98?
>>43127530
Everyone I knew used mirc back in the day.
>>43127530
hirc is light and decent.
https://archive.org/details/computermagazines
Some cool stuff here.
>>43128362
Thank you for posting this link anon. Here's another link, but this time mostly for Commodore stuff:
http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/
>>43116720
I wrote a forth for the 68000 over the last couple months, if anybody is interested.
>>43128804
i find T9-style input like what the psp uses to be quicker than just a wall of characters
>>43128804
>forth
That's hot. Need to get it on real hardware and hack up a keyboard interface though :)
(I've actually been tempted to make a board which interfaces extra ram and a keyboard to a SNES via the cartridge port. I already have some DIP 128k x 8 static ram ICs)
>>43128804
could you change the acknowledgement message to be simply "k."
>>43128862
>anon writes programming language from the ground up
>complain to anon about UI
>>43128862
you have word based completion and an on-screen keyboard.
>>43129755
It runs on a real genesis.
>>43129809
I can
>>43130268
A website speaking of S-100 computers: http://www.s100computers.com/index.html
>>43125530
What developpement kit should I use to create applications for my Palm VX ?
>>43130731
he ran it from a TTY, screenfetch gets most information from an X session
Bumping.
>>43123253
My Armada has a Mobile Pentium II at 366 MHz. Slackware works, I might install it again later. Maybe I could even install the Linux version of UT.
>>43132473
Actually do you guys think I should install Puppy or DSL instead? Slackware works but I could try something else.
>>43125398
I would love to see it, post some specs too.
Is the SuperH architecture dead?
>>43117269
>What's the best way to run SSH on 286? Is it difficult to obtain Ethernet adapters for ISA nowadays?
http://elinux.org/RPi_Serial_Connection
>>43132118
Never did ultrabright that A500, huh?
>>43133245
Nope, and I don't think i will. Call me a weirdo, but I like this color.
>>43117269
Not so much if it's 16-bit ISA ports, but yes it is when it comes to 8bit ISA stuff. Just be sure to NOT take an SMC card, get an IBM, 3com, NEC card, but never risk yourself with an SMC.
For SSH, I don't know if there is a client DOS, just try to check for the NOS network package, or mTCP.
>>43117269
>>43134167
Here's a BBS' FTP where you can find a modified version of NOS (NEOS) as it's hard as fuck to find:
http://files.mpoli.fi/software/DOS/NETWORK/
Don't hesitate to check other stuff on it, there are hundreds of interesting DOS files in it.
>>43134167
What's wrong with SMC? I almost bought one of their 8bit ethernet cards for my XT and I've been regretting not getting it ever since, inform me so the feels will stop ;_;
>>43119955
Window Maker has existed since the mid-90s and is fantastic. I'm trying to figure out how to make it work with MATE.
>>43117269
FreeDOS comes with a 16-bit SSH client, although you're better off with MS-Kermit or qmodem and a nullmodem cable.
>>43134347
SMC cards are shit. Even if it says that it will run on certain systems, it sometimes won't work at all. I alway had shitty experiences with them. Yeah, an 8bit version is sure to run on DOS, but many ISA-16bit ones won't and will require WFW 3.1, Windows NT, stuff like that. SMC cards made in the 90s are basically the ethernet card version of the infamous Winmodems.
>>43134376
I did like WindowMaker better than fvwm. I'm installing XP right now though. I might go back to 2000 or something else afterwards.
>>43128804
Pretty neat.
Did you write it in straight 68k ASM?
>that text input speed though
>tfw you'll probably never get a hand on this wonderful machine
>>43135092
I've got a PET 4032 and a CBM 8032 in my shed, I've never seen those though ;_;
>>43134407
>but many ISA-16bit ones won't
I'm pretty sure you can get packet driver TSRs. Also, ODI16 modules for Netware.
Also
>SMCs "NE2000" compatibles
Those fucking liars, they are not one bit.
>>43135476
>Windows NT
That reminds me, this thread has not had a lot of Windows NT stuff. Wonder if I should reinstall NT. I tried XP and it wouldn't load one of the files off the disk. Probably going to either do NT 4 or 2000 next. I would try NT 3.51 but it's hard to install with no drivers for my hardware. I have done interesting stuff with NT 3.51 in a VM though.
>>43135655
What hardware do you need drivers for?
I got a time machine, might be able to grab some for you.
Or do you have post-2000 hardware?
>>43135655
NT4 would definitely be more fitting for that hardware.
In my experience though, it isn't that impressive.
>>43135695
A Compaq Armada M700 with a Pentium II, I can't find any NT 3.51 drivers for it and I doubt they exist for anything except the Ethernet. I highly doubt you can find a NT 3.51 driver for the ATI Rage Mobility P. NT 4 is more time-appropriate but much worse for vidya plus it has no USB flash drive support. 2000 seems just as fast but I just don't know! It was manufactured in 1999.
vic20-c64-c128
then I got this beast
>>43135784
The Mobility P is based on the Rage Pro, so maybe try Rage Pro drivers?https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?DwnldID=1071&lang=eng
Not official buthttp://bearwindows.boot-land.net/vbemp.htm
Universal VESA/VBE Drivers for NT
Also available in an unofficial NT 3.51 Service Pack:http://bearwindows.boot-land.net/winnt351.htm#4
Its confirmed working for the Mobility P, too.
>>43136084
I guess I could try the VBE driver. NT 3.51 is a bitch to install without a floppy, but I guess I'll give it a shot now.
how many of you rich fuckers had this breaking technology, after the TL shit started to move quickly, 286 sx dx, 386, 486, pentium, pentium II, on and on..
One thing is for sure m80s computers will milk your wallet.
>>43136174
>tfw when hitting the turbo button
Any way of getting Amiga-OS4 or such emulated on a PC (other than AROS)? It's something I'd like to play with.
I know it's not exactly retro time-wise, but considering how dead the Amiga is...
>>43136308
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32739
if this thread is anything to go by, I don't think anyone cares enough to make a PPC Amiga emulator to run OS4
>>43136526
Damn.
I see pear-pc was mentioned. Kinda surprised that getting it to run wasn't attempted.
That said, Mac OS didn't run that great on it, so I'd not like to think how a far-less-popular platform would do.
>>43136174
>tfw that was my first true retrocomputer when I started out collecting
>tfw I still have it out in storage but never used it once because no monitor or keyboard
>>43135079
Mostly 68k asm with some bits of C.
Are you referring to the on-screen keyboard? It has word completion, so it's not all that bad.
>>43120113
This is a no bullying zone, m8.
>>43125427
My friend has a printed calendar with naked ladies in ASCII from late 80's.
>>43135476
> pretty sure you can get packet driver TSRs. Also, ODI16 modules for Netware.
Yeah, but when those TSRs don't even work, you start to ask yourself what's wrong this stuff.
>>43119945
>porn on BBSs in early gif formats (non-animated)
Yeah, thats what we jerked off too back in the day.
Heres an archive of a BBS from 1996 (although most of the images are from 1992):http://cd.textfiles.com/arcadebbs/
Alot of swimsuit pictures, but some porn scattered throughout.
So, when do you think was the final chance other companies had to overtake the IBM PC?
Were they doomed from the start of the clone market, or could Amiga, Apple, Atari or otherwise have had any chance of stopping it?
>>43120113
I started collecting at age 14, I've been collecting for over a decade now, and chances are through my (non-IT) career I've contributed far more to the world than you.
If you don't have the passion you may just never understand. I've taken home Mac II's discarded from my school, set them up with A/UX and run servers on them. I've salvaged old iron from dumpsters. I've collected parts over time and built the ultimate early 90s gaming machine - 100Mhz 486, gravis ultrasound and SBAWE32, gravis gamepad, matrox accelerator, dos-supported NE2000 NIC, one dos 6 hd one win95 + linux hd, all SCSI. Me and my friend once hand-carried an 8-processor IBM server over a mile back to his house, found a serial terminal to work with it, and were rewarded with a fully working AIX installation, guest account enabled, absolutely nothing wiped.
Old systems have a purity about them. If you enjoy working from the command line or ultra-minimal desktop enivronments on modern systems, you understand the attraction. It's about simplicity. It's like driving stick. There are not so many layers of abstraction between you and the bare metal, the computer does exactly what you tell it to, and so much less of its power is bound up in rendering UI.
And then there's the joy of hacking, there's that moment when you watch a vintage machine you've restored come back alive, there's the challenge of interfacing with them and getting data to them, there's asking yourself questions like if it might be possible to backport that software to K&R C and get it working on this ancient unix..
You might not ever understand, but maybe you can grasp it if you think about people who like working on classic cars.
Sometimes old computer materials make me upset.
If reading a magazine, for example, that says how amazing this new system will be, for a brief period I will be "caught" by it - I'll be inclined to believe this is a great system, a system for the future, on some subconscious level. (Say an Amiga, or an Atari.)
And then reality will kick back in. Those systems died off. They were not the system of the future, for the future belonged to IBM compatibles.
And then I'll realise even IBM isn't safe - the tablets, the mobile phones, are coming. The consumer no longer wants a desktop.
I'm afraid for the future, and my only escape is to hide further in the past. Fortunately most of the time it's an enjoyable - not upsetting - hobby. But there are these brief moments...
RISC OS looks pretty cool. Wonder if there are any old Acorn systems on Ebay.
>>43141882
About the consumer wanting desktop, I think it's only a bad thing considering the prices that might go up.
But I think that when the market will go back to the professional and hobbyist only, and maybe the quality will go up, and only those who are able to make quality hardware will survive, and maybe some manufacturers will someday come up with other architectures, thus reviving the microcomputer market. Or maybe I'm just dreaming.
Anyway, yup, I wholeheartedly agree with you, there was so much architecture that were better but simply failed, not for technological reasons (imagine if Atari wit the ST, Mega ST, TT and Falcon, won entirely the desktop publishing market with their cheap but capable computer accompanied with their ASCI laserprinter, and the MIDI studio market too? No one would be hearing about Apple today, nor about their overpriced hardware, and only old computer hobbyists would remember them thanks to the Apple II), but mainly because of bad marketing and reputation that killed them.
I have to say that at least, S-100 computers are still a thing among hardcore enthusiasts, and these systems are the most versatile you can find: It accepts any CPU you gives it and are pretty much a single bus on a motherboard with a shitload of expansion ports (22 is the max I've counted), a front panel and a power-supply, with everything contained in a metal case, but can becomes everything you want it to become. You can basically make them work as local computing farm (with 20 Bi-CPU or FPU cards, and multiple cores in these CPU/FPU for example, handled by a dedicated OS, the 2 other expansion ports being used for interface with other computers, keyboard, and/or monitor if it is nescessary).
>>43142162
I haven't come across many, but IIRC the Raspberry Pi can run RISC OS.
>>43142722
That monitor looks fitting for windows 3.1, even if it's a flat screen.
>>43142785
That's because it's 4:3, you dunce.
How to print a string in DOS...;PRNTDOS
;Printing a string to the printer from DOS
;*********************************************
prntdos segment
;--------------------------------------------------------
main proc far
assume cs:prntdos,ds:prntdos
org 100h
start:
jmp short begin
mess1 db 'Test string',0
db 0ah,0dh
mess2 db 'Error while outputting the string',0
mess3 db 'Error during printer initialization',0
begin:
mov ah,2
xor dx,dx
int 17h
cmp ah,90h
jz print
mov dx,offset mess3
mov cx,35d
mox bx,1
call prntmess
jmp short exit
print:
mov dx,offset mess1
mov cx,12d
mov bx,4
call prntmess
exit:
mov ax,4c00h
int 21h
main endp
;----------------------------------------------------------
prntmess proc near
mov ah,40h
int 21h
jnc exitsub
mov dx,offset mess2
mov cx,33d
mov bx,1
mov ah,40h
int 21h
exitsub:
ret
prntmess endp
;----------------------------------------------------------
prntdos ends
;**********************************************
end start
BIOS...;PRNTBIOS
;Printing a string to the printer from the BIOS
;*********************************************
prntbios segment
;--------------------------------------------------------
main proc far
assume cs:prntdos,ds:prntdos
org 100h
start:
jmp short begin
mess1 db 'Test string'
db 0ah,0dh
mess2 db 'Error while outputting the string',0ah,0dh,'$'
mess3 db 'Error during printer initialization',0ah,0dh,'$'
mess4 db 'Printer not ready',0ah,0dh,'$'
begin:
mov ah,2
xor dx,dx
int 17h
cmp ah,90h
jz init
mov dx,offset mess3
jmp short text
init:
mov ah,1
xor dx,dx
int 17h
cmp ah,0
jz print
mov dx,offset mess1
jmp short text
print:
mov cx,13d
mov si,offset mess1
cld
xor dx,dx
next:
mov ah,0
lodsb
int 17h
test ah,8
jnz error
loop next
jmp short exit
error:
mov dx,offset mess2
text:
mov ah,9
int 21h
exit:
mov ah,4c00h
int 21h
main endp
;--------------------------------------------------------
prntbios ends
;*********************************************
end start
And writing to the bare metal.;PRNTLOW
;Printing a string to the printer using the hardware registers
;********************************************************
biosdat segment at 40h
org 8h
lptaddr dw ?
biosdat ends
;********************************************
datarea segment
lpt1 dw ?
mess1 db 'Test string'
db 0ah,0dh
mess2 db 'Error while outputting the string',0ah,0dh,'$'
mess3 db 'Error during printer initialization',0ah,0dh,'$'
mess4 db 'Printer not ready',0ah,0dh,'$'
datarea ends
;*********************************************
prntbios segment
;--------------------------------------------------------
main proc far
assume cs:prntdos,ds:datarea
assume es:biosdat
start:
mov ax,datarea
mov ds,ax
mov ax,biosdat
mov es,ax
mov dx,lptaddr
mov lpt1,dx
inc dx
in al,dx
jmp short godelay
test al,80h
godelay:
jnz init
mov dx,offset mess3
jmp short text
init:
mov dx,lpt1
inc dx
inc dx
mov al,0ch
out dx,al
mov cx,3000d
delay:
loop delay
mov al,8
out dx,al
print:
mov cx,13d
mov si,offset mess1
cld
next:
lodsb
mov dx,lpt1
out dx,al
inc dx
inc dx
mov al,0dh
out dx,al
dec al
out dx,al
dec dx
in al,dx
test al,8
jz error
wait0:
in al,dx
test al,80h
jz wait0
loop next
jmp short exit
error:
mov dx,offset mess2
text:
mov ah,9
int 21h
exit:
mov ax,4c00h
int 21h
main endp
;--------------------------------------------------------------
prntlow ends
;**************************************************
end start
>>43143121
>daily reminder that /retro/ is a no bullying zone
>>43142722
Either show X-COM running on that thing (I assume it's at least a 386) or get out.
>>43143181
What if it's a 286?
>>43143202
>286
>CD-ROM drive
Nah that's a 386 or an early 486.
>>43143148
>>43143139
>>43143131
Thanks anon for the code posting.
>>43143148
This code gets the LPT1 register address from the BIOS data area. On most PCs, the port is 378h but monochrome video cards with parallel ports put it at 3B8h and MicroChannel stuff like IBM PS/2s used 3F8h. Also some BIOSes can reconfigure the parallel port for any of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kI0urN9tI
A video archive of some British show about computers, the MSX in this episode. There's an interview of Bill Gates, Clive Sinclair and a guy from ASCII, I don't recall his name.
It's interesting to see how they said that standardized architecture will be the future of computing, but the one standard that triumphed is the one forced upon IBM by Intel, Microsoft and clone manufacturers, not the one were major electronic companies agreed about.
Also, there are tons of Sony KX-27ps1 at almost every stage of the show.
>>43144899
aaaand I forgot to post the pic that goes with it.
>>43144941
How to get into motorola 68k assembly in less than 10 minutes.
First, you need to know how this CPU is made:
- It's a 16/32 bit CPU
- It has a 16bit Data Bus
- It has a 24bit Address bus (so it supports up to 16 MB of memory)
- 8 all-purpose 32bit Data registers (D0 ? D7)
- 8 32bit Address registers (A0 ? A7), with the last (A7) being the stack pointer
- A 32bit Program Counter
- A 16bit Status Register
- The 68000 can handle 3 data sizes: the byte (8bit), the word (16bit) and the long word (32bit).
Warning! Even if addresses are only 24bit long on the first 68000, all 680x0 CPUs that came after the 68020 uses 32bit addresses, so don't store additional data in the last 8 bits in the address registers.
The CPU work in two modes: the User mode, and the Supervisor mode. The latter allow the program to use a few instructions more and half of the Status Register.
Pic related is here to show how is organized the Status Register. This register is updated after every instructions.
Can someone ITT try https://github.com/rxi/lovedos on real hardware? I've been thinking of writing a DOS game with Allegro but this looks better.
(sequel to >>43147835)
The second thing you need to keep in mind is how to feed data to the various instructions. Pic related is the various addressing modes available.
In that table:
$ = Hexadecimal number # = some data
x = depending on the format:
- for a byte (represented in the instruction by .b) = 1
- for a word (represented by .w) = 2
- for a long word (represented by .l) = 4
d16 = signed 16bit shifting
d = signed 8bit shifting
Xn = An and Dn alike
Now the last thing you need to know before the instruction set is how is composed a line in 68000 assembly:
[LABEL:]_[INSTRUCTION[.FORMAT]_OPERAND][_;COMMENTARY]
LABEL = address of the line, for jumps and subroutines
.FORMAT = either .b, .w or .l (as explained before). If the format is missing, but required by the instruction, .w is the default.
OPERAND = the addressing you use. There are 3 types of operands:
- operand with 2 terms -> syntax - Source,Destination (exemple: D3,$FE35)
- operand with 1 term -> syntax - Destination (exemple: A5)
- null operand -> implicit destination
Example of a line in 68000 assembly:
TEST: MOVE.b D3,$56C3 ;move the first byte of D3 to the memory location $56C3, and can be accessed with a jump to the location "TEST"
2 important rules:
- Never, ever retrieve or store words and long words in odd addresses, the CPU will not appreciate (it's a bug)
- When you store stuff in an address register, whatever it's size is (byte, word or long word), the previous content of the address register is erased.
That's it! You know how to code in 68000 assembly, and only need to check the instruction set now.
>>43128804
Got a repository?
"The BIOS and DOS function calls for writing text are slow and quite limiting. For one thing, they can only output at the current cursor position which is not very convenient. In addition, the DOS functions can only write to the current page. Writing directly to the video RAM is usually the best choice as it allows you to bypass the cursor and also is easy to carry out."
"There are four BIOS functions for text output, which are:"
INT 10h, Function 9h
AL=character
BL=attribute
CX=Number of times to write the character+attribute
This writes a character and accompanying attribute at the current cursor position, but does not change the latter.
Function 0Ah
This works the same as Function 9, but ignores the current attribute, so BL is not used.
Function 0Eh
This function uses the attribute already present in the video RAM and the registers are set up same as Function 9. When a character is written, it advances the cursor right one space and if the end of the screen is reached, wraps back around to the next line.
Function 13h
This function is present on all EGA/VGA cards but not supported by CGA/MDA on BIOSes prior to 1986.
AL=Subfunction #
0=Don't move the cursor and use the attribute in BL
1=Same, but the cursor does move
2=String is comprised of alternating character/attribute pairs. The cursor does not move
3=Same, but the cursor does move
BL=attribute
BH=page
CX=length of string
ES=segment of string
BP=offset of string
DH=row
DL=column
I know some x86 ASM and I don't enjoy coding in it much. What's the best retro platform and architecture to learn intermediate assembly programming on? I'm considering ARM, MIPS and Sparc (due to OpenSparc).
>>43149223
Check >>43147835, it's one of the easiest assembly language you can learn, along with the Z80 assembly.
>>43149368
Nice. I didn't think of it. What system would you recommend for the best tooling? I used to own a black and white Mac, but it too developer-friendly IIRC.
>>43149433
*but it wasn't too
>>43149433
Easy68k if you want to stay on PC and do limited stuff, Atari ST then for mare advanced stuff, and then one the Amiga if you want to do heavy multi-processor coding.
>>43142731
I wonder if you could use an S100 chassis as a blade farm, with a supervisor/console card running some m68k or 386 thing, and the rest of them with an Atom C2000 SoC, onboard 2.5" SATA bay, GigE, etc. On the S100 side they'd present as a serial port for console.
It would be non-hotswap and therefore of limited use in a production datacenter, but it would be crazy to pull off.
>>43149488
Thanks.
>>43149514
I think you can, most of the CPU cards have Master/slave dip-switches or jumpers, so with the right programs, you can use them this way.
>>43149223
x86 is fine. I don't really like Z80 asm; never could figure that shit out.
>>43149580
>x86 is fine.
I don't disagree; I just don't enjoy it compared to the only other assembly language I know, that of 6502.
>>43149580
Heh, for me it's the other way around: I can't read anything on x86 assembly language without going insane, but I learned the Z80 one in less than 12 hours, and was even able to experiment by coding in hex opcodes directly on my Amstrad CPC's Basic interpreter.
http://clrhome.org/table/
What a mess.
>>43149580
Shouldn't be that hard. Z80 asm is more like x86 than 6502 or 680x0.
>>43149604
6502 is simple to figure out, a pain to use because of the instruction set being much more limiting than Z80 or x86.
>>43150235
Oh there's a way better one that also includes 8080 instructions:
http://nemesis.lonestar.org/computers/tandy/software/apps/m4/qd/opcodes.html
>>43150276
I never tried 6502 assembly. I heard that it was close to 6800 assembly.
>>43149514
>22 slots in biggest known S100 chassis
>20 Atom boards
>2xGbE per Atom board
>40Gbps from a fucking 4U S100 chassis
What the fuck is this shit.
>>43150317
>>43149514
Just make sure that the bus is 8 time faster than the CPU so you wont have trouble using 64-bit CPUs on an 8-bit bus. I don't think the S-100 bus has a speed limit.
Rate my gameboy asm
>>43150406
Doesn't look that bad.might as well learn it later.
>>43150298
This is a little example of Commodore 64 code; it fills the screen with the letter A.jsr $ffd2
lda #$41
ldx #255
fill_loop:
sta $400,x
sta $500,x
sta $600,x
sta $700,x
dex
bne fill_loop
rts
Well now that the original post have been deleted, >>43150447 is now supposed to answer to >>43150471.
>>43150518
I made a mistake in the original post because I'm sleep-deprived.
>>43150551
No problem. 6502 code seems close enough to what I've already seen before, so it doesn't seems hard to learn.
>>43150471
On a PC, you would do this:
mov ax,b800h ;segment of color text memory
mov es,ax ;put it in ES
mov ax,741h ;A plus normal text w/ black background
xor bx,bx ;clear BX in preparation for loop
fill_loop:
mov es:[bx],ax ;fill address of VRAM pointed to by BX
inc bx
inc bx ;increment BX twice to skip to the next character+attribute pair
cmp bx,0fa0h ;done all 4000 characters?
jnz fill_loop ;if not, go back and do it again
mov ax,4c00h ;exit to DOS
int 21h
>>43148272
it's not particularly good code, but yes
https://github.com/ehaliewicz/megaforth
>>43149223
Im >>43128804
68k is very easy.
>>43151816
Agreed, one of the best assembly language for beginners, along with z80 assembly.
>>43151816
Easier than MIPS? From my research so far it looks like in terms of difficultly Sparc > ARM > MIPS.
>>43151897
it's so fucking easy. MIPS and ARM are RISC so they can be very tedious. 68k is easymode asm.
>>43116720
The first computer porn I ever saw was from floppies in about 1997. All the pictures were low res JPGs that had watermarks from "Windy City BBS."
God knows how long they'd been floating around since I don't think those BBS were still a thing in the late 90s.
>TFW I used to have a vintage computer collection larger than anyone on /g/ when I was a teenager
Sold it all off when I realized I'd rather be doing less isolationist hobbies.
>>43150471
Why in the hell are you calling $ffd2 for?
>>43152056
Not him, but a quick research show that it's a ROM routine:
>FFD2 6C 26 03 JMP ($0326) ; (F1CA) output char on current device
http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/docs/c64-diss.html
>>43150471;; 68k screen fill
;; assuming video ram location is in a0
;; and youve got the same kind of display as the pc example
a:
dc.w #741 # 'a' character with color info?
move.w (a), d1
asl.l #16, d1
move.w (a), d1
move.l d1, d2
move.l d1, d3
move.l d1, d4
move.l d1, d5
move.l d1, d6
move.l d1, d7
move.l d1, a1
move.l d1, a2
move.l d1, a3
# move 10 longwords in one go, 200 times
move.l #200, d0
loop:
movem.l d1-d7/a1-a3, (a0+)
dbeq d0, loop
>>43152208
that should be (a0)+
>>43152135
Yeah, I know what $ffd2 does. But you should never call it without setting x, y, and a first. Also it is completely redundant in this example.
Bumping.
>>43119892
Slackware. Hands down best support for old/less common hardware
>>43154893
What is this beauty anon?
>>43155360
It's an IBM System/36 deskside.
They also made miniature versions of it the size of standard PCs in desktop and minitower format.
>>43155379
I see, no wonder i didn't even recognize it.
>>43155401
I'd love to have one some day, especially the tower variant. They're bretty cool systems, direct ancestors to the AS/400.
>>43155464
Yeah, they sure look great. Is that a little front pannel above the 5"1/4 floppy drive, or a tape cartridge reader?
>>43155506
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Z6nU59bRo
It's the status display/control panel similar to what's found on the big ones.
The desktop variant didn't have this, though, I think they just let the custom XT included with them handle the job.
>>43155542
Yeah, so it's a front panel. Heh the one showed on the video even have both the front panel and the tape cartridge reader! How good could these beauty be when it comes to oldschool terminal server?
>>43151982
iktf
>tfw your favorite giant robot's OS have been made in Fortran by Microsoft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h00QmJY9MU
Now while talking about old stuff, here's an LGP-30 computer booting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WaYYNUCWMY
If you know the story of Mel the REAL Programmer, you might as well know this computer. Sorry, I didn't find any video of the RPC-4000.
If you're dedicated enough or have nothing to do for the next 6 month, the schematics of this machine are easy to find, and the computer not really hard to build as it doesn't have any ICs, only diodes and vacuum tubes:
http://ftp.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/royalPrecision/LGP-30/LGP-30_Schematics_1959.pdf
>>43156817
Also, here's the RPC-4000 maintenance manual, with all the schematics included too.
>>43149223
6502 variants are easy to write assembly for.
A fun way to learn on the bare metal is to get dasm and stella and write some code for the Atari 2600. There are plenty of tutorials available.
>>43158305
Isn't the 6501 contained in the Atari 2600 basically an enhanced 6800 clone?
I have an old laptop I want to connect to the internet for reasons.
It runs Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.22
However, I don't have a compatible PCMCIA ethernet card but it does have a Parallel and Serial port.
Is there anyway I could do something like pic related?
R.I.P SIMTEL 1979-2013
Place was fucking heaven for obscure software junkies.
Anyone know which archive is the best?
Allegedly, theres one out there well over 10GB. Various FTP Servers seem to hold the same 2001 archive, and cd.textfiles.com has all the CD-ROMs the Walnut Creek released.
>>43158602
Is it Free software?
>>43158625
FOSS, and some shareware.
Even the very beginnings of the GNU Project were available on Simtel.
Software for DOS, every windows ever, various Unices, PDAs, you name it.
>>43158580
If the desktop is running Linux you can use the laptop as a terminal to the desktop, but you can't network over serial.
Start looking for a cheap PCMCIA ethernet card that will run with 3.1, I guess
>>43158580
Yes, check mtcp for MS-DOS. It tells how to configure a PC to act as a router for you old DOS machine.
>>43158660
Of course you can network over a serial line, what is SLIP an PPP protocols for you then, eh? How do you think people were accessing the internet with modems over a serial line?
>>43158580
Parallel-to-Ethernet Adapter
>>43158687
I meant the way he was talking about ;_;
I don't think you can do that kind of shit with a desktop, at least not that I've seen.
>>43158710
I've done it with my Amiga, and as I stated here >>43158667, the mtcp package tells you how to make a desktop PC act as a router with it's documentation.
>>43158660
>but you can't network over serial.
Null-modem cable?
>network over serial
You need to make the host a slip/ppp server and the laptop a client. Any modern Windows can do it, and it's a daemon on linux.
You will need a null modem cable.
>>43158726
>>43158810
this is pretty sweet, actually
thanks for educating me /retro/
Is anyone here enjoying Halt and Catch Fire? Do you guys think it's at least a little accurate?
>>43155379
My mother used to sell S/36s in El Salvador, at least when IBM still sold PC's there. She says shit was cash. Too bad I was too young to see them in action
Why can't I stop listening to these two...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WuC9q_A2Fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onqp4R2xYC0
>>43119471
Why not Open- or NetBSD? I've had good experiences with both on slightly newer hardware, and NetBSD is darn fast.
>>43160498
This. NetBSD is pretty good, even on not-so-new machines.
>>43152354
>>43150471
Oh, that. I meant to do this.lda #147
jsr $ffd2
It clears the screen (equivalent to PRINT CHR$(147), but I forgot the LDA instruction.
>>43152208
That's nice, but even better would be if you showed it for a specific computer like the Mac or Amiga.
>>43160978
For the Mac would be better, because for the Amiga you have to load the Workbench libraries and all that kind of stuff before trying to access the routine, then close the libraries when no longer used.
>>43161024
You can't just write text to the video buffer on the Amiga even though it has no memory protection?
>>43161074
I thought the Amiga doesn't have a true text mode like on PCs; there's just 320x200 or 640x200 graphics.
>>43158456
6507. It's a 6502 with a 14-bit address bus and no hardware interrupts.
>>43161093
>>43161074
It's location isn't fixed. The video buffer can be anywhere in RAM and only the co-processors can know where it exactly is.
>>43161138
Isn't that like on the Commodore 64 as well? The VRAM can be moved anywhere within the address space of the CPU.
>>43161175
I dunno, I've never worked on the C64.
>>43161175
I think the Amiga's VRAM isn't directly accessible by the CPU though; IIRC it has a setup like the NES where you can only write to it during the VBlank.
>>43161199
It is directly accessed, it's located in the Chip RAM which is available for every processors in the machine. But the VRAM location is only known by the co-processors.
>>43161175
>>43161193
The VIC-II has a 15-bit address bus (14 bits=8k, 15 bits=16k, and 16 bits=64k). It can place its VRAM anywhere within the 64k CPU address space, arranged of course in 16k blocks. Thus, the VRAM may be $0000-$3FFF (power-on default), $4000-$7FFF, $8000-$BFFF, or $C000-$FFFF.
Because of contention between the VIC-II and CPU, any program code placed in the current VRAM window will execute slower than code outside of it.
>>43161024
I think the Mac video hardware just has a dumb frame buffer ala PCs.
>>43161254
I see, so there are only 4 location possible for VRAM. Thanks for these info anon.
>>43161254
The lone exception is the color RAM which is always at $D800 regardless of the VRAM page used (the VIC-II has a separate address gate for the color RAM)
>>43122048
pretty sure twm would be appropriate as well
There's one other added bit of confusion and that's in regards to the character ROM. The C64's character ROM is mapped at $D000-$DFFF, but this applies only to the CPU and the VIC-II cannot see it there. Instead, the VIC-II maps the character ROM into either Page 0 ($0000-$3FFF) or Page 2 ($8000-$BFFF). If Pages 1 or 3 are used, it cannot see the ROM and you will have to provide your own character set. When Pages 0 or 2 are used, you cannot put any graphics data in the location of the char ROM either, which is why most C64 games instead use Page 1 or 3.
Even more confusingly, the CPU can only see the character ROM at $D000-$DFFF if you switch it into there via the register at $00/$01. This area normally contains the hardware I/O registers, so if you switch the char ROM in place of them, you will have to disable interrupts.
>>43162083
The 2040/4040 is at best partially compatible with the 1541. While the two drives can read each other's disks, they're not write-compatible.
>>43162164
PET/CBM-II disk drives were more advanced than the 1541. Take a look at pic related. Not many disk drives in 1982 was capable of writing this much data on a floppy disk.
>>43162224
>Not many disk drives in 1982 was capable of writing this much data on a floppy disk
All double density floppies can physically store up to 1MB, but most computers never used their full capacity. The PET drives were also way faster than the sluggish IEC interface; there used to exist IEEE -> IEC adapters which allowed you to connect them to a Commodore 64. While speedier than 1541s, they were not compatible at the low level hence most software wouldn't work. They also had the 8050 (single-sided version of the 8250) and the 8" 8290 drive which was mainly designed to read IBM mainframe/minicomputer disks. Plus a pair of hard disks, the 9060 and 9090.
>>43162224
>>43162511
The business models of the PET were unfortunately not a success in North America because as 6502 machines, they couldn't use CP/M and also used BASIC as an OS which made them seem like non-serious computers.
Also aside from the 8296, all of them had only 32k of memory while the Apple II and TRS-80 Model I supported 48k.
>>43162511
Yup, most of the time when people used them on C64, it was for storage mainly, not loading programs.
The PET also had an HDD too. I think you can connect it to the C64 too with an IEEE?IEC adapter.
>>43142764
only in an emulator
>>43162671
>The PET also had an HDD too
He just mentioned that in his post.
>Plus a pair of hard disks, the 9060 and 9090
>>43162671
The hard disk works like an oversized floppy; there's no subdirectories.
>>43150708
What's the easiest graphics mode on PCs to work with?
>>43161074
>>43160978
Writing directly to the video buffer on a Mac isn't a smart idea because it's not text mode like PCs. You have a screen full of graphics stuff and you'll fuck everything up if you just start altering random pixels.
>>43163068
VGA Mode 13 since it's one byte per pixel. The rest are a snarled mess.
I finally got my HP 200LX.
This DOS based Palmtop PC contains an 80186 processor, 2MB RAM (640K system, rest C:\ Drive), fully CGA compatible graphics and runs for 40 hours on a pair of AA batteries. Windows 3.0 works on it.
>>43163225
>This DOS based Palmtop PC contains an 80186 processor, 2MB RAM
This must be EMS RAM because the 186 only has a 20-bit address bus.
>>43163296
That's why I mentioned (640K system, rest C:\ Drive). Flash memory was monumentally expensive back in the day so RAM was used for storage.
>>43163347
Oh, it doesn't have a physical hard disk, it's a RAM disk. I was confus.
>>43163225
The 186 was a 286 sans protected mode. It also combined all of the supporting chipset onto one IC, which is the main reason they were not used in IBM compatibles.
>>43163225
>40 hours
>on a pair of AA batteries
Holy fucking shit.
>>43163225
FWIW, the Windows 3.0 CGA driver can work on Windows 9x.
>>43163502
Haha, going to try it on a VM
>>43162224
Critics complained that Commodore were too slow in getting disk drives for the PET since the Apple II and TRS-80 both had them by mid-1978 while it was almost another year before they got around to it.
>>43163502
>>43163526
Or the EGA driver included with Windows 3.x; I actually saw a screenshot of someone demonstrating Windows 95 in 640x350x16 mode.
>>43163225
Get some Free Pascal on this bad boy.
>>43163551
Yeah, I'm on the forum page now. CGA would be interesting.
>>43163539
The Apple II first began shipping in June 1977 and the Disk II came out exactly one year later. TRS-80 Model I shipped in September 77 and their disk drive followed the same month as Apple's.
For comparison, the PET shipped in December 77 and didn't get disk drives until (I think) the spring of 1979.
>>43163551
If you installed the EGA driver, you also need something called EGA.SYS which was included with DOS and required to use Windows in EGA mode. This was loaded in CONFIG.SYS and solved some problems with the planar memory layout of 640x350 mode that happened when drawing overlapping window boxes.
>>43163611
>Yeah, I'm on the forum page now
???
>>43163701
http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12325
There's also a few Youtube videos.
