Unix General - /uxg/
Thread: 0001
Last Thread: N/A
>What is Unix?
Unix is a multitasking, multiuser computer operating system that exists in many variants. The original Unix was developed at AT&T's Bell Labs research center by Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie, and others. Since then, Unix research been wide-spread, with notable contributions coming from institutions such as University of California at Berkeley, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Purdue University, and others as well as private institutions like Sun Micro-systems and Hewlett/Packard.
>Why Use Unix?
From the power user's or programmer's perspective, Unix systems are characterized by a modular design that is sometimes called the "Unix philosophy," meaning the OS provides a set of simple tools that each perform a limited, well-defined function, with a unified filesystem as the main means of communication and a shell scripting and command language to combine the tools to perform complex workflows. The C programming language was designed around the operating system.
>Name of the Game
There is a bit of confusion, even among users of the operating systems, regarding naming. In general, UNIX is an operating system that was created by Bell Labs and is a trademark of the Open Group. UNIX no longer properly exists. A Unix is an operating system that follows a strict set of guidelines known as POSIX. Finally a *NIX, or less commonly *nix, is any operating system which is not POSIX-compliant or is partially POSIX-compliant, that still follows the Unix Philosophy. GNU/Linux is the most famous example.
>Common Unixes and Likes and How to Get Them
$ = Costs money to attain legally (Ask in the thread for a torrent, you might get one)
# = Some or all versions are fully POSIX compliant (True Unix)
T = Historic or Legacy, may, or in most cases WILL, not work on modern hardware, YMMV
unix.org // General Information
bsd.org // Berkely Software Distribution #
osx86project.org // OSX #
linux.org // Linux
gnu.org // GNU
hp.com/us/en/products/servers/hp-ux.html // HP-UX #$
ibm.com/systems/power/software/aix/about.html // AIX #$
plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9 // Plan9
tru64.org // Tru64 #$
lynx.com // #$
oracle.com/technetwork/server-storage/solaris10 // #$
minix3.org // MINIX
haiku-os.org // HaikuOS
vsta.org // VSTa T
vetusware.com/download/Xenix%202.3.4/?id=4317 // Xenix Very T!
opensource.apple.com/ // Darwin
bebits.com/app/2680 // BeOS T
launchpad.net/fmios/ // FMI/OS
>Newsgroups and Sub-reddits
comp.os.linux
comp.os.linux.advocacy
comp.os.bsd
comp.os.unix
comp.os.lynx
comp.os.beos
comp.os.gnu
alt.religion.emacs
/r/Unix
/r/Linux
/r/UnixPorn
/r/BSD
/r/Plan9
>Stack Exchange
unix.stackexchange.com
>Further links
books.gentoomen.org // Several books about Linux and Unix
sdf.org // The most popular (and BEST) public access Unix system (also has Symbolics if you're into that)
pastebin.com/XfnNxniH // Template for these threads
web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf // The Unix Haters Handbook
To Foster Discusion:
>What is the best (Or less inflamitory, ``your favourite'') *NIX operating system?
>Why do you use a *NIX?
>Why is *NIX so awful?
>What shell language do you use?
>What are some clever hacks that you or someone you know have done recently?
>What are some other links that I'm missing?
>What do you do for a living?
>Post your Geek Code and discuss *NIX and microcomputer hacker culture
How do i learn how to write OS code for linux?
>web.mit.edu/~simsong/www/ugh.pdf
I had forgotten about this, thanks
>>42491547
>solaris 10
>not solaris 11
>no unixen with illumos kernel
>Dec 31,1999 11:15PM
>almost Y2K
>company has 200 unix servers
>get overtime pay for wathcing them while y2k
>mfw cant go to new years eve parties
>mfw 45 minutes later, all 200 servers shutdown
>oshit
>lights turn off too
>cry
>50 minutes later
>power goes back on
>>42491591
You should be pretty versed in C. The Art of Exploitation introduces low level programming in C and Linux assembler pretty well.
Also, I know BSD requires that contributions be in KNF, I don't know what style the Linux source is in, but you should be aware that it's probably consistent. That is if you plan on contributing.
>>42491547
Linux is just a kernel
GNU states that it is not UNIX
Calling plan 9 UNIX is an insult to plan 9
Minix shares some features with UNIX but is not UNIX
Lynx RTOS is only unix-like, like minix
BeOS/haiku aren't even close to unix
VSTa and FMIOS are only UNIX-like
Sort your fucking list better christ
>>42491689
I think you're required to comment an expletive every 20 lines when writing for the Linux kernel
>>42491708
GNU/Linux, Minix, VSTa and FMIOS are all unix-likes, as indicated
>>42491689
yeah i dont really want to contribute,
more just download/compile/learn
take a look at the source code and figure out what does what and explanations.
Then fuck around some.
Already know C
>>42491764
>>42491723
I did remove Plan 9 and change Lynx's status
>>42491708
>linux is just a kernel
the site specifically links distributions, every distribution of linux is unix-like, that's just a convenient place
don't know why he put gnu on there.
>>42491772
You might try LFS, the OS coupled with the book is fairly informative.
Looked at the pastebin, good call giving up that pipe thing, it would've been fucked up beyond all recognition.
Can you even use pipes? Or are they considered spam?
Is NeXT Unix?
>>42491894
Unix-like, according to wikipedia, I've never used it though, so I can't tell you
I have the source code for a few Unixs including IRIX, BSD4.3, BSD4.3, and IRIX.
Who wants?
>>42491531
General threads do not do one thing, and they do not do it well.
Has anyone been successful in getting an older Unix to run on an emulation platform like MESS?
Why are they so perfect /g/?
>>42491917
IRIX would be pretty cool actually
> live free or die
> trademark of bell labs
fucking lol
>>42491976
https://mega.co.nz/#!6153DaSC!TFLZ7RSIza7AOk3UDrTPVW0ZT9BNbM0Ax_vNpAcKyk4
>>42491829
looks like it could be fun to do, ill probably be able to learn a bunch. It seems though that this is more specific to the linux system and not really about OS design.
still very cool though thank you
>>42491976
forgot pic
>>42491991
thanks
>>42492014
hawt
>>42491984
I think they were talking about the UNIX not the state motto
>>42491991
>please install the MEGA browser plugin to download a file over 1GB
>install it
>the site works just like it would've if I hadn't downloaded the plugin
>>42492063
Just click don't ask me again. Sorry m8, couldn't find a better place to put it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOxlazS3zs
Latest one of these.
>>42492195
>He managed to not making a forking joke that entire time
that must've taken a lot willpower, I couldn't have done it
do people even use newsgroups anymore?
>>42491531
Haiku isn't Unix-like at all
>>42492345
Spambots do
>>42492345
comp.os.linux.advocacy has posts from a few hours ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoVQTPbD6UY
Where it all started
>What shell do you use
csh master race
>>42492536
Is there any way to get that super ancient version of unix they use in there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlPC3O1DVcg
;^)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4ROCJYbm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMKuv0A6z4
penn is young as fuck in this video
>>42491708
>>42491780
Don't listen to these people, Unix discussion can encompass Plan 9 as well, according to the authors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs#Design_concepts
Plan 9 is an extension of Unix concepts and philosophy
>>42491547
>What is the best (Or less inflamitory, ``your favourite'') *NIX operating system?
GNU, if you would call that UNIX. I wouldn't, but it's what I use for now.
>Why do you use a *NIX?
Because I have to.
>Why is *NIX so awful?
It is based on C. Operating systems tend to mirror features and protections from the languages they are written in; C has little of both, owing to the strange and failure-prone way problems are solved, if they are solved at all.
>What shell language do you use?
Bash. I'm going to try switching to a Common Lisp interpreter soon.
>What are some clever hacks that you or someone you know have done recently?
None that I'm aware of.
>What are some other links that I'm missing?
Links to C would probably be a good idea. There was a C general, but it died.
>What do you do for a living?
Student for now.
>Post your Geek Code and discuss *NIX and microcomputer hacker culture.
I don't have a geek code. A link to the geek code page would also be a good idea if you're going to continue requesting it.
>>42492661
op picture material right here
>>42492661
>You don't demand that your radio suddenly turn into a television, you don't demand that your hardware do something completely different
Exactly. "One thing and one thing well" is probably the most important pillar of the philosophy.
>>42492947
I would change it to just *NIX general, which would easily include Linux with out splitting any hairs about POSIX and such.
OP here, final verdict, Plan 9 y/n?
>>42492947
>Link the geekcode site
I can do that
>>42493113
Definitely doing that
>>42493164
yes
>>42493173
>>42493177
thanks
>>42492947
You should buy an Alpha box or a LispM and run Genera
>tfw the textboards are dead
>>42493250
truly a shame
Anyone have a local Linux/Unix users group they're a part of?
>>42493326
Local university has one, but I've not gone to it yet, I missed the last call-out, don't feel like just showing up
What boot loader should I use if I want to use several operating systems?
>>42493450
LILO works with everything I've thrown at it. DR-DOS, OS/2, MINIX, Plan 9, BSD, OSX, Windows, and Slackware all able to boot
>>42493450
GRUB2 is good and is what is typically used.
>>42493450
GRUB and LILO are both great. Research, find one you like, but the most important thing to remember is that you should never use any other bootloader. The ones that come with every BSD distro, MINIX, et cetera are terrible and don't work will with anything else.
is this the spiritual successor to /cgen/?
>>42493550
MINIX comes with a bootloader?
>>42493474
whats so special about slackware anyway?
>>42493326
I went to one a long time ago when I was about 18 years old. I can't remember exactly. I might have been 17 or 19. It was awful. I left after a few minutes. I assumed the autistic neckbeard stereotype was just a stereotype. I was wrong. Sure, there were a few decent people there, but they were a minority. In particular, I remember two overweight and balding men who were SHOUTING at each other shortly after the even started. They were fighting over how 404 pages should be handled on a blog. The argument was that if someone goes several directories deep in the URL, but makes a typo, should the 404 page provide a link that goes back to the home page at the top, or should it go to the deepest valid directory. For example:
>example.com/tech/software/browsers/fierfox
The last part of that path has a typo. They argued whether the 404 page offers a link that goes to /tech/software/browsers as the deepest, yet still valid URL, or should it offer a link back to the homepage? This one guy started SCREAMING about his opinion on that topic. A few of us tried to move on and change the subject but he would not let it go. After about 15 minutes of hearing him scream about usability, I decided to leave. It was really uncomfortable seeing a grown man throw a tantrum in public. He wasn't just passionate about his opinion. That wasn't it at all. He was throwing a tantrum. That was about 6-7 years ago. I never went back.
>>42493940
obviously can't handle the bant
>>42493994
It was worse than just banter. We were in a library. We had a room reserved, so we didn't have to be whisper quiet, but this guy was yelling loud enough to be heard through the walls and I was sure he (or possibly all of us) were going to get kicked out. I even started having concerns about whether someone would call the police.
>>42494052
That's fucking hilarious. I remember at my highschool group in 05 or so, there was an actual fist fight because one of the Linux guys kept plugging in and unplugging a USB into a BSD guys laptop causing kernel panic.
>>42494079
That's still not fixed. It doesn't happen as often anymore, but it still happens.
le sage
>>42494153
Really? I just assumed it was, mid-00's were a rough time for hobbyist *nixes in general, but honestly BSD get your shit together
>>42494177
why
>>42494226
>durr lets have more generals that'll make a board good!
>>42494248
but sage is not a downvote
>>42494262
I felt the need to express my opinion of this thread idea.
>>42494282
this is more attention than the thread has gotten all night
>>42494248
what's wrong with generals anyway, I've never understood
>>42494308
If they actually take off, they're just repetive cancer. I don't get it either, it's not like "general" implies "let's do it over and over for infinity". But that's just what happens. I also have no reason why there's anything left to discuss about headphones or thinkpads at this point.
Programming general seems more like a lounge for people who are productive / trying, and desktop threads seem like a lounge for subhumans.
>>42494348
I like generals. They keep the cancer confined. It's better than 20 different threads all discussing slight variations of the same topic.
>>42494392
I guess it's all we have when we're stuck with mods who don't ban anyone.
>>42494392
how is LISP or UNIX cancer?
>>42494426
What would you consider a bannable offense that isn't being acted on now?
>>42494432
They aren't.
>>42494446
-Desktop threads.
-People who abuse the tripcode feature (I know these have been around since the dawn of time)
-50% of tech support threads, but I suppose those are looked for and banned if they're retarded enough.
-Starting a thread with "Hey board, /pol/ here" or "/k/ here" or "/whatever/" (most of the time.)
>>42494495
but most of the time there's only one or two desktop threads actually active (the second on like the last pages usually)
just click the hide button if you don't like it
>>42493450
Multibooting with ntldr will make you want to hang yourself.
>>42494560
>only one or two desktop threads
Should be zero. We have /wg/.
>>42494604
/wg/ mods already said desktop threads don't belong there
>>42495069
That's because they don't want to deal with them.
I don't like most /g/ generals either, but UNIX is a valid topic, so I don't think we should shit up these threads too badly.
>>42495069
fuck.
>>42495104
I'm listening to this guy. What's so great about UNIX that it spawned the entire autistic half of operating systems today?
>>42495069
/wg/ mods can choke on my dick, the board is fucking called Wallpapers/General. What the fuck else is it for if not wallpaper generals?
>>42495069
>>42494604
They should probably just go to Reddit. They're all tripfags anyway, might as well go somewhere where they're welcome like desktops or unixporn
>>42495123
everythings a file
do one thing and do it well
kernel > shell > software
>>42495162
Just went to unixporn. Their screenshots seem to be brighter and I didn't see any anime. I only looked at four though.
>>42495193
>everythings a file
Unless it's a process.
>>42495123
>whats so great about Unix
>generals on /g/
kill yourself
What's the best commercial Unix on the market right now?
>>42495576
please also visit the
>headphone general
>lisp general
>desktop thread
>stupid questions general
>mechanical keyboard general
>daily programming thread
>>42495576
no
>>42495576
Listen dude: I'm almost 49 years old. I've been using computers since the original Apple 1 was in stores. In high school I used a multi-user BASIC system running on a Data General Nova minicomputer connected to 3 schools via 300bps modems over leased phone lines. The first computer I built was based on a 1976 Popular Electronics article and used an old Teletype ASR-33 as a terminal. The next three computers were S-100 bus systems running CP/M v2.2. Depending on your age, I may have been writing code in C under CP/M before you were even *born*. I've owned no-name Taiwaneese knock-off XT clone motherboard-based systems I built on the cheap, with monochrome (yes, the ugly-ass green-screen) graphics. I remember the original Mac looking like someone's idea of a joke to me. I thought Windows v2.x was the most useless thing on the planet. I actually ran IBM's OS/2 for a couple *years* and thought it was awesome. The only reason I changed from Win95 was because the USB support was virtually non-existent. The only reason I changed from Win98SE to Win2k was it wasn't stable on a CPU running over ~800MHz. I had an entire WinNT4 domain, complete with PDC, running in my apartment, while I was getting an MCSE.
>>42495588
HP-UX and AIX are good, but honestly there are no commercial nixes better than BSD or Linux for home use.
>>42495651
What the fuck, man.
>>42492014
>not partying
>>42491531
>GNU/Linux is the most famous example.
I didn't know that the GNU project put out a Linux distro. Anyway, why mention just that one and not all of the other Linux distros, or just Linux in general?
>>42495651
I haven't seen this one for months
>>42495735
kek nice bait
>>42495735
>I didn't know that the GNU project put out a Linux distro.
>>42492573
http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/
>>42495733
Link if you are interested, from the thread last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ9LJNJtTq4
>>42495750
this is awesome, I'm not that guy but I hope he sees this
>>42495520
>that haiku
>>42491547
>Post your Geek Code
yea niggaGCS d--(d?) s:+ !a C+++
UL(B*)+++ P+ L+++ E+++ W++
N+ o? K W-- O M- V-- PS+++
PE Y++ PGP t+ X R tv- b++
DI+ D+ G++ e++>++++ h r- y
>>42495820
Link to the site? I don't think OP's provided one yet and I'm lazy.
>>42491547
minor correction, it's alt.comp.os.beos
the last serious post was in 2004, and that was just some guy asking if anyone was still around.
there were incidental posts now and again, but it mostly died with the OS in about 2000
>>42495820
Generator:
(Every generator is clumsy and more confusing than just writing it yourself, so here's the site)
http://www.geekcode.com/geek.html
Decoder:
http://www.ebb.org/ungeek/
>>42495750
Also not the one who asked for it but I love you.
Don't listen to the haters, OP, generals are great for everyone: keeps those desiring a certain content from spilling over to the rest of the board and the content itself gets better treatment. Plus a unix general is very much welcome.
>>42492583
fucking bjarne man
>>42495744
Calling it GNU/Linux is the bait, given that there's no such thing.
>>42495747
I fail to see what my sexuality has to do with the delusions of a pot-bellied, autistic pedophile.
>>42496089
Your baiting very hard.
Let's ignore you to stop you from mucking up this thread any further.
>>42496134
2s/r /'re/
>>42496089
>make half an operating system
>get someone else's kernel
>share credit
>people become lazy over time and just call it Linux
>suddenly nothing you do matters
There are countless GNU tools on nearly every single Linux distribution, there is as much GNU as there is Linux
I call it Linux all the time, because it's shorter, but the proper name really is GNU/Linux.
>>42496089
You're probably not even that same guy, fuck off
>>42496177
>There are countless GNU tools on nearly every single Linux distribution
There are countless Xorg tools on nearly every single Linux distribution. So why not GNU/Linux/Xorg? But lets not forget the importance of ssh for most Linux users. So we should really call it GNU/Linux/Xorg/OpenSSH. Or as I have taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux plus Xorg plus OpenSSH.
>>42496177
>there is as much GNU as there is Linux
In terms of what...SLOC? You're making shit up.
>>42496190
Same guy. So you fuck off.
Not that the ability to think clearly about things is exclusive to me. It certainly could have been a different sane individual unwilling to fellate Stallman and tongue-bathe his smegma.
>>42493940
>two overweight and balding men who were SHOUTING at each other
This is EXACTLY how I imagine a UNIX users group
>>42495606
lisp general is the only good one
My geekcode. This is the first time I've ever taken the time to do it.-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
GCS/GE/GM d- s+: a18 C+++(++) UL P? L+++@ E++>E+++ W++@ N? o? K- !w O? M-- V? PS++(+++) PE(--) Y++ PGP? t? 5? X? R@ !tv b++++@ DI? D? G e>e++++ h! !r z
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>>42498362
What is the point of these things?
>>42499527
Apparently, it's used to approximate a personality in an organized way.
>Not pushing the necessary FOSS-ONLY issue
>Not listing MINIX
Discarded item
>>42499550
Isn't there a way to do it with selecting options? Manually doing it seems a pain in the ass.
>>42499574
Meh. I use StumpWM, so I just set up an emacs buffer next to my firefox instance and scrolled through like that.
>GNU and Linux
>still follow the Unix philosophy
not really m8, unfortunately
>>42495212
/proc/
>>42499734
What about a network connection?
>>42499573
minix is on there m80
>>42499792
/proc/<pid>/fd
>>42491531
>dat op
just link to some distros
What would be most interesting for a toy server: hurd, plan9, or minix? Assuming they install, of course.
>>42500659
My vote is plan 9, it's awesome.
>>42500659
Debian/HURD is probably the most usable for general things.
Bump for interest.
>What is the best (Or less inflamitory, ``your favourite'') *NIX operating system?
OS X
>Why do you use a *NIX?
It's the best environment for programming
>Why is *NIX so awful?
I've never really had an issue with it
>What shell language do you use?
Bash
>What are some clever hacks that you or someone you know have done recently?
My friend wrote a program that uses his printer as a terminal emulator, it prints the output of each line
>What are some other links that I'm missing?
None that I can think of, although Darwin should be marked with an #
Is this a good book to start learning linux?
Running linux
http://it-ebooks.info/read/2197/
>>42503176
Did you read a book to use Windows?
>>42503585
No and that's why I don't understand anything beneath the gui
>>42491531
>Thread: 0001
>not 0000
>>42503162
>My friend wrote a program that uses his printer as a terminal emulator, it prints the output of each line
#swag
#swag
#swag
>>42503984
pretend there was one before this one
>>42503176
>learning Linux
it's already been mentioned in the thread, but you should buy the LFS book. If you want more general knowledge of Unix systems, the original Programmers Guide to UNIX is still pretty insightful.
>>42505040
>Last Thread: N/A
>>42505105
maybe it 404'd
>>42505067
O'riley's {Unix|Linux} in a nutshell is really good
>tfw using them to support my monitors because they are the perfect thicknesses to make my monitors equal height
>Perfect in every way
>>42503162
>Darwin should be marked with an #
Source? I believe you but is there any record of it being certified as fully compliant to the Open Groups standards for Unix?
Also
>an #
>not calling it a crunch
>>42505288
OS X is Darwin with a few APIs added, everything that has to do with UNIX and POSIX compatibility. If OS X is UNIX (which it has been certified UNIX since 10.5), then the Darwin version it's based on is as well. Darwin itself isn't actually certified though as that would be another $15000 out of Apple's pocket.
>>42505337
*everything that has to do with UNIX and POSIX compatibility is in Darwin.
>>42505337
>OS X is Darwin with a few APIs added
That's a little bit simplistic, but relatively accurate.
>>42505469
Yeah, I know it's more but that's much less typing and still gets the point across.
>>42492557
http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/misc/csh.html
>>42505701
You can still use csh for interactive just fine, as long as you script in bourne. You should be scripting in bourne no matter what shell you use interactively
>>42505787
This, I use zsh for interactive and bourne for scripts, I thought that was pretty common
>>42506732
You HAVE to use bourne for scripts, cause muh portability. Whatever you use for interactive is up to you
>>42491647
I would have shit myself and then cried. That's just me though
was pure Bell labs Unix still around back then?
Anyone use Solaris? I'm debating using it for a home server
>>42508121
Not him but I doubt it, it was probably Xenex of AIX
>>42508226
*or
>>42508226
I see. Was the original Unix ever scaled for server use or was it mature enough by the time the server market grew to branch out into different corporate variants?
what is MINIX anyway? I remember two years ago there were a shit ton of threads about it, but I never bothered to look in
>>42509126
OS for embedded systems mostly
UNIX is dead. Long live Unix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7P16mYDIJw
>>42511193
>Gary, I told a friend that we were doing a show on UNIX, and he said "Why in the world would you want to feature a eunich on a computer show"
kek
>>42511193
funny how much of this is still relevant today
>>42511193
http://youtu.be/g7P16mYDIJw?t=21m54s
heh
>>42495750
whoa
>>42511598
this was legitimately true at the time
micros were terrible at Unix in the 80s
This thread's the second or so entry on the board.
I'll bump.
>>42491531
linux
>>42491917
4.3BSD please
What else do you have?
>>42515661
>>42491917
Nevermind, they're all in the same download
>>42492536
rocking it old skool
> some of those monitors and terminals look so cool
>>42493214
>Genera
run it in a virtualbox vm: https://github.com/marsam/opengenera
>>42500659
i'd vote plan9.
>>42498362
I feel that I should point out that I am also >>42492947.
---geekcode
gcs d- s: a18 C++ L U++++ P--- L++ E----
W++ N o k- w+++ O---- M-- V-- PS+ PE++
Y++ PGP t 5 X++ R tv b+++ DI++ D++ G--
--/geekcode
brb, writing parser.
Is there a Linux distro where I get useful error codes everytime I do something wrong? That's the only distro I'm ready to use.
>>42517795
UNIX isn't very well suited to providing "useful" error codes.
Can plan9 come too?
I just installed 9front on a spare laptop but don't have any immediate ideas on what to do with it, any tips?
>>42495651
pastaman
