College?
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
Is it worth going to college if you're pursuing a career in computers? I see a lot of people saying that you can't get by with anything less than a bachelor's degree if you aspire to be anything more than a code monkey, while many people on /g/ insist that you don't need any college, that it's a waste of time and money. I'm not a genius or anything, but is it possible for me to earn a decent living using only the self-teaching method? If so, what are the best jobs for that, and how should I go about learning? I don't want to spend years paying off student debt, but I wouldn't even know where to begin if I were to quit school and start doing this on my own.
I realize this is a pretty broad question, and I'm prepared to give more information regarding my specific situation if it will yield better answers. Thanks in advance for your help.
>>54924643
First of all probably 80% is not employed in the tech field, idk why you even think to listen to anything people have to say here. Second, when you say going into computers, are you looking to program, design CPUs, be IT, be more specific on your career goals. I'm guessing it's more programming related since you mention self teaching
>>54924719
>idk why you even think to listen to anything people have to say here
I'll admit, I probably give people on 4chan a little too much credit, but I don't trust anyplace else. I like the brutal honesty you get with anonymity.
>are you looking to program, design CPUs, be IT
I'm mainly considering the software side of things, yes. As I understand, designing CPUs and other bits of hardware is the work of a computer engineer, and I'm not sure if I have the brains for that. I'm not really sure what all "IT" entails. I've always understood it to mean fixing broken computers, but that's probably wrong. To be honest, I don't really know what I wanna do. Web development seems appealing at the moment, though, 'cause it's apparently easy. I've been through a lot of shit, and I'm just looking for a relatively laid-back, low-stress job that pays the bills. I've enjoyed what little exposure I've had to programming thus far, so I decided to go with that.
In all honesty, a good portfolio goes beyond a degree.
I have a degree in cs but I'm unemployed. Mostly because I hate networking with people, but still. I won't lie though, you'll get a fair amount of calls with your degree. But calls mean nothing if you suck at interviews.
>>54924957
>I hate networking with people
This is 100% me. I have crippling social anxiety, and not the Tumblr kind: I legit have to psyche myself up to call the dentist's office to schedule an appointment.
> if you aspire to be anything more than a code monkey
That's just people talking out of their ass, it's one of those things that's easy to say but bullshit.
The way American's make their university choices is incredibly naive. They don't even see the opportunities abroad. On that basis I'd always lean towards avoid it.
You don't have to move into management, the best developers are paid similar amounts to the best of management. Although many companies just produce very simple data manipulating software.
You do need to use your resources regardless of whether you get a degree. I mean books, your network of kernel developers, your .rar of code exploits etc. It's possible to have a degree and still be a complete outsider, but the degree might allow you to coast in and learn very slowly (and that's what those people talking out of their ass have done).
>>54924643
Are you pursuing a career inside computers? No, climbing inside one requires acrobatics training. You should go to a circus.
>>54925084
>On that basis I'd always lean towards avoid it.
So, I shouldn't go for the degree?
>your network of kernel developers, your .rar of code exploits
I have no idea what this means. I'm pretty much brand new to programming.
>>54924837
It's possible to self teach programming skills, what's hard is getting into the industry with absolutely no networking basis. This is where uni and CC can help out. I would maybe reccomend getting an associates degree and seeing after if you wish to Persue more then go to uni. Otherwise you can learn a decent amount at CC and learn on your own, additionally, you can find an area which suits your need and try to start networking with a couple people
Ask yourself this one simple question: If I get in 30-60K of debt, is there a good chance I'll work hard and get a job in the end to pay back my loans in ~10 years?
If you answered no then wait and reflect on a better career path before you go to college.
>>54925617
So, community college isn't a complete waste of time? Because I feel like it is. I'm in an A.A.S. program at a community college right now, and /g/ told me to get the fuck out of there the last time I came here looking for advice. I posted a screenshot of the software they use to teach us programming, and it was universally ridiculed.
Here's the plan I'm on:
http://cscc.edu/academics/departments/pos15-16/csci/CSCI.SOFTDV.AAS.pdf
Is this any good? Should I keep going with it? The classes don't really transfer anywhere else, so I'd have to pretty much start over if I wanted a BS from there.
>>54925793
>>54924643
If you learn programming by yourself and have a portfolio with relevant software, some employers may choose you over the Nth college graduate that says he knows Java and C++ but has nothing to show for it, and never worked on a large project.
There's no future in the software industry (Software Engineers/Developers).
1) Software Development is no longer a viable or good career for the long term future. The salary pay and job security are free-falling downwards, and competition is spiking sky-high.
2) The competition for the available job software positions is INSANE. There is such an enormous amount of supply of software devs compared to the demand for them. Think about it:
3) You have your fellow college graduates all wanting the same job as you. Go into any freshmen college CS class. The classroom is filled jam packed that students even have to stand outside to listen to lecture.
4) Companies will hire Indians instead of you so they can pay them dirt cheap. This has two main effects: it will get more difficult for you to get hired/you'll get laid off, AND your salary pay will decrease.
More competition equals more choices for employers and ultimately worse for you. Think about it, employers receive hundreds of resumes. They can pick and choose the top and give them low salary offers. The first choice doesn't accept because the pay is too low? Okay, on to the second. Etc etc. Eventually, you'll be lucky to even receive an offer of a "low" (will then be considered normal) salary pay.
5) Companies will outsource the software work to other countries. The work will be sent offshores and continue to lower salary wages at home and increase the already fierce competition.
6) Hiring Indians will decrease the quality of the code. Upper management DO NOT care about whether the code is well-maintained or the long-term effects. All they know is: Indians can do it cheaper, and as long as the code "works". That's where the few remaining competent software developers come in. They are "lucky" to even have a job, but must work many times harder to fix up/redo the code from the incompetent cheap hires, as well as work for lower pay.
>>54925966
7) Think about who is majoring in CS and why they choose to major in CS. It's mostly kids that play video games all day and then think "well, programming is kind of like gaming, so I'll choose CS as my major". Also the "I heard CS gives good pay, easy to find a job, and is easy work, so I'll choose to major in CS". These are the types of "people" that are entering CS major in college and these are the types that will be entering the workforce. They don't care about programming, they just play games and/or want a high-paying easy job.
Why are these kids able to graduate even though they don't care about the major? Because schools are dumbing down CS (other majors as well, but let's just talk about CS). Schools are a business, that's a fact. They know everyone practically "needs" to go to college, so they increase tuition, etc. They can do this by dumbing down programs and increasing the amount of students they take in. Therefore, even the most unpassionate and uncaring kid can graduate with a CS degree.
8) Think about what happens once you reach age 40+. Why should companies continue to keep you when they can hire one of these kids? These fresh college graduate kids learn faster, can be much paid less, and already know the latest greatest fad programming language. You'll get laid off and replaced with one of these kids once you get old enough. That is, if you didn't already get laid off from an Indian or outsource.
9) Software Development used to be a good industry to join in, back decades ago before it became a fad. It has been going downhill ever since and is continuing to spiral downwards.
>>54925975
10) I am in the industry so I can tell you this from experience. I absolutely GUARANTEE you: ask anyone in the software industry working for at least a medium or big sized company what is the percentage of Indians working there. It is at least 50%, and growing.
There's no future in the software industry. It was a great career decades ago, but now it's a declining job that's spiraling downwards. To those in college right now or thinking of majoring in CS: I highly suggest you pick a better major if you consider your future.
Here's the thing - Most employers prefer to hire people with CS/CE degrees. However, attending college does not make you a good programmer. In fact, it will only be a huge burden since you will have to waste time studying for tests and writing assignments.
You will have to find time to learn practical things and make projects by yourself. If you don't do anything besides what they teach you in college, you will be unemployable.
>>54925966
>>54925975
>>54925988
kys shit stain
>>54925988
It's sad that Indians receive such a bad rep programming wise, I know a ton of grad students in stem that are extremely smart and nice. Too bad it's true that they are job hungry and will take anything since its 10x better than any job in India.
>>54926079
Op this is true too, you are no good unless you act silly utilize the skills you have. Basically if you are willing to put in a lot of Work to get a potential low paying job, it might not be worth. Would you be willing to try other areas of programming like embedded systems?
