Enough to build big arms?
Probably.
I still do a few sets of curls and skullcrushes just to be sure though, but yeah - chinups & dips make my arms incredible pumped, far more pumped than arm isolation exercises do.
>>36814245
This.
You need high volume to build big muscles anywhere. Do your main compounds and then some Isolation Lifts to round it up.
>>36814214
overhead presses, pullups, rows and dips are all you need to have great arms.
- The overhead press work your shoulders from extension to full flexion
- Pullups work them from full flexion to extension
- Inverted rows/Bent over rows work your shoulders from partial flexion to partial hyperextension
- Dips takes them from hyperextension to extension
Dips and pullups alone are not enough to hit all the possible ROM your shoulders have in both flexion/extension/hyperextension as all the heads of your biceps and one of the triceps aid your shoulders to move into that ROM, pullups and dips are not enough to fully hit all the muscles of your upper arm.
>>36814214
>pull-ups
You mean chin-ups. With your palms facing you.
Anyway, it really depends on the genetics and the way you do those lifts. Some people do dips and get thick tris, other front delts and so on.
You do isos to bring up muscles that are lagging behind, that's the point.
>>36814600
Nah. Pullups work the rear delts and forearms too, which I don't isolate. I'll consider doing some barbell curls if that is not enough for bicep.
![slovenia_1537823c[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/C9jEKnk.jpg "slovenia_1537823c[1].jpg")
>>36814718
>Pullups work the rear delts
>>36814214
>that grip width on pullups
jesus fuck
wide grip for wide lats is a huge meme
>>36814214
for first year i never had arm day, yet my arms were mired. but with specialized work they will be bigger
>>36814739
even memes work if you have outstanding genetics and take insane doses of high quality drugs
ive been doing dips and ohp and chins and bench and rows for years and adding LTEs and curls recently has made a big difference
and one thing to consider is that isolations are easier to recover from cns-wise
>>36814550
why are you talking about shoulders
>>36814783
exactly.
but it's silly
>>36814789
Because your biceps and triceps have very important functions regarding their movement?
Did you know that your biceps doesn't have any attachments to your humerus and one of the big heads of your triceps connects to your scapula? Ergo, isolations are not enough to develop them fully.
>>36814816
i know that but just because those movements hit the shoulder ROM
completely doesnt mean they hit the arm musculature completely
>Ergo, isolations are not enough to develop them fully.
depends on what you consider an isolation but LTEs rippetoe-style hit the triceps fully for sure, the movement is done specifically because of the active insufficiency
>>36814730
but who was biomechanics? the posterior deltoids are involved in pulling exercises ya dummy. nice meme pic you got though
>>36814850
>depends on what you consider an isolation but LTEs rippetoe-style hit the triceps fully for sure, the movement is done specifically because of the active insufficiency
They dont. Because of the main functions of the long head of your triceps is to aid in moving your shoulders to hyperextension which the LTE's dont cover.
>>36814887
>They dont. Because of the main functions of the long head of your triceps is to aid in moving your shoulders to hyperextension
but due to active insufficiency, the long head can only do that when the elbow is flexed. no movement (that you listed) has you extending your shoulder for the full rom with your elbow flexed.
LTEs cover about half of the shoulder ROM which is plenty considering this.
>>36814730
>he doesn't retract his scapula
Lmaoing @ ur life fampai
>>36814964
>implying the rear delts move your scapula
>>36814914
There is, Inverted Rows/Bent Over rows take your arms to partial hyperextension, which is the most you can take them with a barbell as full shoulder hyperextension requires a special pattern of movement, it would require to have the barbell behind you, instead of in front of you.
>LTEs cover about half of the shoulder ROM which is plenty considering this.
They cover about 1/4 of the total ROM.
>>36815024
>Inverted Rows/Bent Over rows take your arms to partial hyperextension
they only work about half the shoulder rom and the long head of the tris only works for like the last half of that rom because the elbow is flexed enough only during the last half of the movement.
>They cover about 1/4 of the total ROM.
i dont know how youre doing them but its definitely about half for me.
>>36815077
>they only work about half the shoulder rom and the long head of the tris only works for like the last half of that rom because the elbow is flexed enough only during the last half of the movement.
>- Pullups work them from full flexion to extension
>- Inverted rows/Bent over rows work your shoulders from partial flexion to partial hyperextension
Just think about it, you are covering nearly all your shoulder rom in the sagital plane with both movements (being full flexion and full hyperextension the ends of said ROM). It's true that you miss a bit of hyperextension ROM with only those, but, as I have stated before, is very hard to do so with normal compound movements.
>>36815130
you're still missing the top half of shoulder rom with pull-ups cause the elbow isn't flexed there either
>>36814245
going by the pump is complete bro science
>>36815150
I'm talking about shoulder ROM, man. Not total arm+shoulder ROM. No compound movement works your arms and shoulders in that manner btw.
>>36815187
have you been listening to anything i've said? do you know what active insufficiency is?
with two-joint muscles, youre supposed to consider the rom of both joints.
>No compound movement works your arms and shoulders in that manner btw.
thats exactly what i said. and why LTEs are important.
>>36815225
What are you talking about, man?
>http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TricepsBrachii.html
>The biarticulate long head of the triceps brachii [1 ] enters passive insufficiency through the completion of elbow flexion when the shoulders are more flexed and abducted or through the completion of shoulder flexion and abduction when the elbows are more flexed. The biarticulate long head of the triceps brachii [1 ] enters active insufficiency through the completion of elbow extension when the shoulders are more extended and adducted (other heads of the triceps becomes more active) or through the completion of shoulder extension and adduction when the elbows are more extended.
I dont see how LTE's work your shoulders differently than pullups at creating active insufficency on the long head of your triceps. Perhaps I'm missing something, in which case please explain.
>>36815301
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Muscle.html
see the active insufficiency part
muscles are stronger when they are somewhat elongated. if you have a two-joint muscle that is contracted at one joint, it can't thus contract as hard on the other joint. that's why front squats work your hams less than low-bar squats, the hamstrings are not as contracted at the knee in low-bar squats so they can contract harder at the hip.
of course, there are others things at play in squats (hamstrings countering the quads and shit) but thats another story (i just dont want anyone linking the damn strengtheory article).
the long head of the triceps is contracted at the elbow when the elbow is extended, so it cant contract as hard at the shoulder. LTEs are the same position as the first half of pull-ups/chins, only with the elbow flexed so the long head can contract properly.
If you are doing them with closer grips, you won't need that much isolations to grow them.
But doing super wide grip like in that pic will not provide for a good Rom for neither back nor Biceps.
Daily reminder that everyone who advocated doing upper body lifts with a wide grip is a shill
Dips fuck your shoulders
>hot qt at the gym
>always catch her glancing at me from accross the gym
>just the two of us in the gym
THIS IS WHAT WE PLAY FOR
>load up 2pl8 squat
>finish my set
>she's biting her lip, i shit you not
>comes over to me
>noticeable nippons.. so hot
Anon, take me right now, right here!
>spaghetti explosion
y-you too.
>move to china
>buy a dojo
>never look back
>>36815460
>I have shit shoulders.
I do ring dips all the time. They used to be sore because they were not used to the movement. Now, i can bang out 7 no problem before exhsustion starts to set in.
>>36815745
>7
>>36815745
>>36816125
jokes aside, keep training rings man you'll get stronk as fuck soon. also that guy that said dips are bad for shoulders is a retard.
>>36815363
kay... so what is the solution for hitting that ROM?
Can anyone help me?
When doing chin-ups and pull-ups, I for some reason always sort of stop and jerk at a certain point near the beginning, which forces me to rotate my elbows more internaly and engage more bicep and something more.
If I don't descend to a dead-hang completely after finishing a rep but stop some at 3/4 of the ROM, this never occurs.
Would anyone know what to do? I tried positioning my wrists and my elbows differently, but to no avail.
Video is from today, after having done 3x5, could only manage 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebgN8SLdd7Y
>>36816136
Rings are very, very dangerous for the shoulders if you dont have enough motor control and endurance as to always keep your serratus anterior and lower trapezius engaged to avoid your supraspinatus tendon and the head of your humerus hitting against your acromion and thus create chronic overuse conditions.
I wouldnt advise ring training to anyone but very advanced lifters that dont have any kind of shoulder limitations.
>inb4 drama queen
>>36814214
>Enough to build big arms?
On Steroids, anything is good enough to build arms as long as you get a pump.
im almost at 17 inch around the arms and i only do pullups and dips for arms so i guess they work, dont think that i would get any bigger by doing curls instead
>>36814789
prob because he knows that the shoulder joint is the most important part of upper body strength, dumbfuck
>>36816175
rings are best upper body training apparatus, get gone gains goblin
>whenever i do dips i get a chronic headache that lasts days
>>36815460
>Dips fuck your shoulders
Not going to make it, off to light weights, high reps with you
>>36814763
Don't force your genetic gifts on us, you faggot.
Nobody wants to read it.
Holy fuck this thread is a train wreck
>>36814214
For novices it's fine.
You will need more volume once you get more experienced though, so isolation becomes very useful.
Though I recommend chinups instead of pullups, as the supination is much better for developing the biceps.
>>36817710
you are such faggot fucking dyel pussy. genetics mean next to nothing because there is such little variation in the human species save for inherited health conditions. stop posting your bullshit baby excuse making threads and try lifting for a change
>>36816311
your breathing is shit i used to have the same problem
>>36817785
>Holy fuck this thread is a train wreck
Your anus is a trainwreck after all the dicks you take.
