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Oh yeah, a lot of faggots think that carbs make you fat

top kek bro, it doesnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWF3xvcIr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4385vF_o4w

cherry pickers gonna cherry pick

my fats are <30%, my cholesterol and sat fat are usually under the recommended, and eat plenty of dark green veggies every day and reach my micros as well as getting at least .8g/lb protein.

so fuck off nerd

>>36469197
its not cherry picking, i just fucking posted vids which have MANY sources linked int eh description, vegan diet is factually the best diet.

Also, despite popular belief, physiologically, we arent suited for meat

Look at our teeth, compare that to dogs, lions or other carnivores

>Muh sharp corner teeth
Lol, most herbivores have those, look at fucking hippos

Our gut is long as fuck relative to torso length, carnivores guts arent as long relative to torso length

We have enzymes in our mouths to processes CARBS, we are supposed to eat a shit ton

Also, TRUE carnivores and omnivores dont get the negative side effects like chronic disease from eating meat, like we fucking do

>not even taking physical fitness into account
>On fucking /fit/ nonetheless
dropped.
Fucking morons

>>36469280
>Also, TRUE carnivores and omnivores dont get the negative side effects like chronic disease from eating meat, like we fucking do

True carnivores probably do not live long enough to get cancer.

>>36469373
Oh yeah, should i include that?

Studies have shown, that lazy steady vegans have LOWER rates of cancer and heart disease, than meat eaters who who excersize EVERYDAY. You cant outrun a bad lifestyle

>>36469382
Still doesnt disprove the fact that people who eat meat have such a huge fucking rate of cancer than vegans, what does that tell you?

>>36469507
>slacker vegans have lower health risks than active meat eaters
You better be able to source that shit.
If not, then get the fuck out

>>36469507
If you're so concerned about health, why aren't you a pescetarian or vegetarian rather than vegan? Based on what I've seen, veganism is about as unhealthy compared to those diets as meat eating is to veganism. At least from an epidemiological, correlative point of view, which is generally what we're going with when we talk about diets.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479225

If you're vegan for ethical reasons, that's fine, but it's not really fair to beat the drum of health so heavily if that's the case.

>>36469602

Hahaahahah, get ready to get butt hurt m8, prepare your anus

https://youtu.be/UKAPo7dMY7c?t=434

Source in description too

>>36469619
Oh yeah, 7 min 10 seconds, thats where its at

You have to go back, muhhamed.

>posts no legitimate sources
>argues fallaciously
>misunderstands the shit he posts
average vegan s m h

>>36469666
post no legit sources? Are you fucking kidding me, how fucking retarded can you actually be? seriously, shut the fuck up if youre gonna be so disingenuous

All these videos, and i CLEARLY said there are sources in the description, if youre gonna be this retarded then dont even say anything

>>36469652
Its at 7 min 10 seconds in that video you should watch

>>36469619
lol, no its not, it really isnt

youre ignorant, look at the sources ive provided

Hey OP I just switched to being a vegan while doing GOMAD, should I switch to GOAMAD instead?

>>36469751
Can you please point me to which sources specifically disagree with mine? I realise you've posted quite a few videos with sources, but if you could link to the specific studies that would be appreciated.

>>36469126
before I even begin to take anything of what you say on board, what height are you?

>>36469807
>your average /fit/ poster

So there are basically three major reasons people go vegan
>1. Ethics, muh animools have feeling too you guys
No, animals are dumb, pointless creatures, my smartphone is vastly more sophisticated than any retardedass chicken, yet nobody will cry if it breaks (except me, shit's expensive)
>2. Environment, muh planet, muh greenhouse effect
A valid reason, although the research of animal agriculture effects are strangely contradictory. Either way, I don't give a shit about the planet.
>3. Nutrition, muh superior foods
I'm not smart enough to have an objective opinion on the subject and neither is anyone on this board. It all comes down to personal beliefs and educated guesses. Meat tastes great, so I'll stick with it

>>36469799
You are seriously saying being vegan is just as bad as eating meat? just what the fuck m8?

All the videos i listed above, in the description, they got links to specific studies ¨

plus this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0RTBtl0Pc

>>36469807
Yeah, cause that matters

>>36469844
All three are true, and the last one especially.

>durrrrr im an ignorant idiot when it comes to this, so are everyone here so i can just reject anything you say

Its not me saying this, its facts. I linked all these videos, in the descriptions there are links to studies. Now you can choose to be a fucking retard, or actually go in depth with it. Its not personal beliefs, its a fucking fact, thats its healthier

>>36469880
I'm saying that veganism has relative risks compared to fish eating and vegetarianism in the same way that meat eating has relative risks compared to veganism.

Can you show me the specific studies you have that compare veganism to vegetarianism or pescetarianism?

>>36469880
it's the only thing that matters

I eat a vegan diet, but I dont condone others diet choices.

I do find it stupid how people think you can't make gains without meat though, bulking with 3500 lack get 200g protein easy on vegan diet.

It's nice having the freedom to eat as much as you want and not get fat, meat diets for me had made me gain fat on much lower calories.

vegans should be gassed

hitler was vegetarian and killed that many people, if he was vegan he'd wipe out the globe

>>36469126
I have never tasted a vegetable that I enjoy as much as a good steak. Sorry cows, but you've got to continue suffering and dying for my pleasure

>>36469914
Again, no. For fucks sake, how fucking retarded are you guys on /fit???

I posted all these fucking videos, with studies linked in the description, and yet you dont even bother checking it out

>>36469918
health? All three reasons matter

>>36469930
Vegans should be gassed?

1. Not contributing to fucking up the environment severely

2. Healthier

3. Doesnt contribute to suffering of animals

sure, they should get gassed

>>36469922
So how the fuck do you cut on vegan diet?
Every vegan protein source is also loaded with carbs to shit

>posting VG and Freelee
At least fucking try

>>36469968
height

>>36469973
for fucks sake

carbs dont make you fat, thats a fact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbWF3xvcIr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4385vF_o4w

>>36469126
Vegans
>guys there's plenty of protein in lentils and beans!
In reality the majority of plant based protein has an incomplete bcaa profile which means IT DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE TO FUCKING MUSCLE GROWTH.

However this can be combated with combining the profiles via black beans + brown rice or other combos.

Meat is good for the macro layout and is filling. It's hard to digest though which drains you mentally and physically. You are noticeably less sluggish and tired when you only aim for 4 meals containing meat a week. My knowledge is 10.5 years of natty liftan

>>36469968
No, you can't show me the specific studies? I assume if you were actually knowledgeable you'd be able to point to the ones that give you confidence, rather than handwaving to a bunch of videos by people like Freelee and Durianrider.f

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>>36469126

Durianrider and VG? seriously? how can you NOT be baiting?

pic is a chimp eating meat.

>>36469973
Well all I do is drop some food, its not rocket science I can get 180g of protein in under 2000 kcal.

Also the fact the diet tends to help you not gain fat is also beneficial.

>>36470002
Lol, did you even read my fucking post you retarded faggot?

https://www.google.dk/#q=patrik+baboumian

Gorillas are vegan by the way

and yes, all plants have a full amino profile

>>36470019
Again, perfectly showing how retarded you guys on /fit are. You just watch the videos, dont even bother to check the studies they provide, do you?

>duuuurrrrhhh chimp eating meat

OH MY GOD, how much of their diet is meat? How much of gorillas is meat?

>>36470045
>OH MY GOD, how much of their diet is meat? How much of gorillas is meat?

enough to say that humans are omnivores.

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>giving up on gains bird

>>36470002
Yeah this is something I've been curious about actually... Like say you primarily ate a vegan diet, but about two times a week ate meat/dairy from a local farm where the animals grazed as they are naturally meant to. Would that still be considered unhealthy for you?

I need to look more into it, but something tells me that most of the studies showing the negative effects of eating meat are based on how most people eat meat today: basically every day, on nothing but factory farm animals.

Is there any studies comparing a modern vegan diet with a flexitarian diet where the animal products do not come from a factory farm?

>>36470057
jeeeeeeeesus fucking christ

>muh, they eat meat, so do we


We can feed dogs vegan food, does that mean dogs are omnivores? no

Physiologically, we are not supposed to eat meat, if we were, we wouldnt have all these negative things that come with it, which pretty much disappear when you go vegan.

>>36470072
Just fuck off if youre not even gonna address the studies

>vegan shitposting with an obvious superiority complex from the beginning
kek

>>36469933
This

>>36469126
how do i work around this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_protein

most plant foods are deficient in one or more of the essential amino acids. Though some vegetable sources of protein contain sufficient values of all essential amino acids, many are lower in one or more essential amino acids than animal sources, especially lysine, and to a lesser extent methionine and threonine.[7] Consuming a mixture of plant-based protein sources can increase the biological value of food. For example, to obtain 25 grams of complete protein from canned pinto beans requires consuming 492 grams

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She tastes so good

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>>36470092
Humans have hunted and eaten meat for millions of years, likewise, chimpanzees also hunt have eaten meat for millions of years.

BILLIONS of humans have and do eat meat, physiologically, we can and do eat meat, the question being Quality and Quantity of meat consumed.


pic related, inuits, bedouins, mongols etc... have subsisted for millennia on diets based almost entirely on meat.

>>36470106
Pretty much all beans have full profile.

Aswell as grains and legumes, so it's not that bad.

What about spinach and green veg?

>>36470106
Legumes+nuts or rice

>>36470084
Why the fuck would you even do that? why not go vegan all week long? are you really this addicted?

Meat tastes lke shit by the way. Go ahead, take some meat and cook it, dont even season it in any way, and eat it

>>36470093
Something is healthier, doesnt contribute to suffering, doesnt contribute to fucking the planet, yes, its superior, obviously

IM not the one whos better than you, the way i eat is

>>36470106
No, all foods have a full profile, some have more of another

Let me ask you this m8, where the fuck do you think the animals we eat get their vitamins from? Where? Out of the fucking blue or what? Or are they vegan? oh shit, yes theya re

>>36470126
We came to be 200-300000k years ago

Physiologically, we ARENT SUPPOSED TO EAT MEAT. Lol, most herbivores have those, look at fucking hippos

Our gut is long as fuck relative to torso length, carnivores guts arent as long relative to torso length

We have enzymes in our mouths to processes CARBS, we are supposed to eat a shit ton

Also, TRUE carnivores and omnivores dont get the negative side effects like chronic disease from eating meat, like we fucking do

Also, as i said before dumbnut "Physiologically, we are not supposed to eat meat, if we were, we wouldnt have all these negative things that come with it, which pretty much disappear when you go vegan."

this thread is further evidence that veganism leads to insanity

>>36470167
You dont even refute the studies in the descriptions, just go to an ad hominem

Go ahead, think of this thread when you get a stroke

>>36470146

>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120420105539.htm

Carnivory is behind the evolutionary success of humankind. When early humans started to eat meat and eventually hunt, their new, higher-quality diet meant that women could wean their children earlier. Women could then give birth to more children during their reproductive life, which is a possible contribution to the population gradually spreading over the world. The connection between eating meat and a faster weaning process is shown by a research group from Sweden, which compared close to 70 mammalian species and found clear patterns.


>http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

Fragments of a 1.5-million-year-old skull from a child recently found in Tanzania suggest early hominids weren't just occasional carnivores but regular meat eaters, researchers say.

The finding helps build the case that meat-eating helped the human lineage evolve large brains, scientists added.

"I know this will sound awful to vegetarians, but meat made us human," said researcher Manuel Domínguez-Rodrigo, an archaeologist at Complutense University in Madrid.

Past research suggested prehuman hominids such as australopithecines may have eaten some meat. However, it is the regular consumption of meat that often is thought to have triggered major changes in the human lineage, the genus Homo, with this high-energy food supporting large human brains.


>http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley.

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain.

Thats ok, OPpie, just make sure you stay safe diddylifting that 1pl8, your feeble vegan arms might just tear apart from such pressure

>>36470146
That's not really answering the question. I guess I'm trying to get to the point of it. Is it meat on it's own that's bad for you, or the quality of the meat + the amount of meat you consume?

Some of us are interested in actually knowing. Yes, I do enjoy the taste of meat, so it would be nice to know that I could eat it in super conservative quantities while still maintaining health.

Wouldn't a vegan such as yourself want at the very least for somebody to limit their meat intake? Or are you just not going to be satisfied until everyone becomes vegan? Does it always need to be this black and white with you?

>>36469619

>In the Health Food Shoppers Study there was no information on the frequency of meat consumption or on the consumption of fish or eggs; therefore, this study was excluded from the analysis (Table 7⇓).
>The number of vegans was small (n = 753 subjects, 68 deaths), so the analyses in Table 7⇑ were repeated with the inclusion of data from the Health Food Shoppers Study, making the assumptions that all nonvegetarians were regular meat eaters and that vegetarians who reported that they did not consume dairy products were vegans. This increased the number of vegans to 1146, of whom 165 died before age 90 y.
>However, these death rate ratios should be interpreted with caution because of the uncertainty of the dietary classification of subjects in the Health Food Shoppers Study.

This particular study was better focused on vegetarian vs non-vegetarian as the number of vegans they included was too small. So small that they had to use the data they felt was unacceptable for the other comparisons, just to have more vegans to study, who probably weren't even vegans due to the vagueness of the diet classification.

>>36469799

>Can you please point me to which sources specifically disagree with mine?

Here's a summary of studies on vegetarian, vegan, and omnivorous diets in the Adventist community

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

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>>36470190

>http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273

Meat and marrow are calorie-dense resources with essential amino acids and micronutrients (Milton 1999), and aquatic fauna offer resources rich in nutrients needed for brain growth (e.g., Broadhurst et al. 2002). Increasing the consumption of animal foods could have allowed hominins to increase their body size without losing mobility, agility, or sociality (Milton 1999).


>http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2008/04/eating-meat-led-to-smaller-stomachs-bigger-brains/

But growing brain size presented a metabolic problem. A gram of brain tissue takes 20 times more energy to grow and maintain than a gram of tissue from the kidney, heart, or liver, she said. Gut tissue is metabolically expensive too — so as brains grew gut sizes shrank.

It’s likely that meat eating “made it possible for humans to evolve a larger brain size,” said Aiello. Early human ancestors probably consumed more animal foods — termites and small mammals – than the 2 percent of carnivorous caloric intake associated with chimpanzees.

The social implications of increased meat eating were interesting, said Aiellio. In most primates, there’s no food sharing between females and offspring, she said. But the difficulty of getting meat led to cooperative food sharing among early humans, strengthening the bond between a female and her offspring.

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>>36470237


TL;DR, humans gained the ability to walk upright and larger brains (among other things) due to meat eating, hence humans are "supposed to eat" (read are omnivores) "meat"

>>36470190
We arent carnivores, so what if its behind our succes?

>Muh we ate meat in nature

Ok, so? Appeal to nature fallacy much? Do you think people 100s of thousands of years ago were healthy? They fucking had to eat meat, doesnt mean its good for us.

> Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods

To compens8, there you go, you proved my point. Its not meat that made us smart retard, its the hunting, we had to think, tactics, tools TAHTS WHAT MADE US SMART, NOT THE FUCKING MEAT.

>>36470211
https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjo3ICJqtLLAhVEQJoKHe3hCqYQFggkMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPatrik_Baboumian&usg=AFQjCNFjn9xZD7xh2sMQ7CR2uKWpkk1pgA&bvm=bv.117218890,d.bGs

>>36470222
You dont like the taste of meat, you like the flavor its been seasoned in. Go eat cooked meat all on tis own, WITHOUT ANYTHING ADDED

Limiting your meat intake doesnt make a fucking difference, you still contribute to the industry, also you keep taking in a little bit of shit instead of a lot.

>This stuff causes cancer, instead of stopping taking it completely, cant i just take a little bit?

>>36470270
one more link


If ancient hominids existed today, they might have a bone to pick with their vegetarian descendants. Meat gave our distant ancestors the brain power that makes higher-level decision-making—like, becoming a vegetarian—possible, according to researchers speaking on Feb. 20 at the 2011 AAAS meeting in Washington, D.C. The modern human brain is two to three times larger than that of our closest relatives, chimpanzees. But to supply energy to such metabolically demanding tissue, a distinct trade-off in energy allocation had to evolve. In 1992, researchers proposed that this gradual expansion of the ancestral brain was made possible by switching from a vegetative diet to a meat-rich, fat-rich diet. As meat became a dietary staple, the gut shortened, and the brain no longer needed to rely on fuel from muscle and fat stores in the body. A shorter gut requires a great deal less energy than the lengthy gut of herbivores. Drawing on the extra energy resources from a fatty diet, and a shorter gut, the brain could afford to grow.

>https://www.nasw.org/article/eating-meat-drove-evolution-our-big-powerful-brain#sthash.DZEB8zSo.dpuf

>>36470274
>its the hunting, we had to think, tactics, tools TAHTS WHAT MADE US SMART, NOT THE FUCKING MEAT.

are you a spastic or something?

WHY WOULD THEY HUNT? Do they hunt plants? WHY WOULD THEY BE FORCED TO HUNT? DO PLANTS MOVE?

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>>36470274
nigga seriously read the links.

The modern human brain is two to three times larger than that of our closest relatives, chimpanzees. But to supply energy to such metabolically demanding tissue, a distinct trade-off in energy allocation had to evolve. In 1992, researchers proposed that this gradual expansion of the ancestral brain was made possible by switching from a vegetative diet to a meat-rich, fat-rich diet. As meat became a dietary staple, the gut shortened, and the brain no longer needed to rely on fuel from muscle and fat stores in the body. A shorter gut requires a great deal less energy than the lengthy gut of herbivores. Drawing on the extra energy resources from a fatty diet, and a shorter gut, the brain could afford to grow.

>>36470237
>>36470190

The meat = more energy = big brain theory isn't a concrete explanation, but an assumption trying to explain how the human brain has grown in size. Dietary factors likely influenced it, and meat (particularly cooked meat) is an obvious calorie-dense food that humans have been documented to eat. Another theory suggests cooked starches are what helped us along, which could make more sense since we've evolved extra starch-digesting enzymes since then and all the world's civilizations have lived on starch-based diets.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/magazine/09starch.html

Also, strangely, the human brain is shrinking now even while we're getting smarter. Brain size does not equal intelligence and may increase or decrease for reasons unrelated to diet, like climate.

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/sep/25-modern-humans-smart-why-brain-shrinking

Strongest people in history were/are meat-eaters
Smartest people in history were/are meat-eaters
Thats all there is to it, really.

Call me when vegans achieve anything but skelly mode and lethargic state of mind

>>36470233
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

Not that anon, but were you the guy I was comparing this to the AHEI study yesterday? If so, I've a couple of questions about diet.

>>36470283

Again fucktard, MEAT didnt make us smart, HUNTING made us smart

Even if we are "supposed" to eat meat, which we arent, vegan lifestyle is still healthier, so why the fuck wouldnt you choose that?

>Duuuurrrrrrhhh its natural, we should do it

No, we should do whats healthiest and best

>WHY WOULD THEY HUNT

Other faggot commented on that, because quantity and quality of plants got fucked at one point on this planets history, meat was a COMPENSATION : "- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, "

For fucks sake, am i supposed to say this again?

">Muh sharp corner teeth
Lol, most herbivores have those, look at fucking hippos

Our gut is long as fuck relative to torso length, carnivores guts arent as long relative to torso length

We have enzymes in our mouths to processes CARBS, we are supposed to eat a shit ton

Also, TRUE carnivores and omnivores dont get the negative side effects like chronic disease from eating meat, like we fucking do"

Are you seriously saying we got short guts? No, the length of our guts are exactly that of an herbivore

>>36470349
Gorillas are vegan

>muh, vegan are lethargic and skinny

http://www.greatveganathletes.com/patrik-baboumian-vegan-strongman Vegan

>muh, strongest/smartest in the past ate meat

Ok they also believed in fucking fairies and that gingers all worked with demons, they were fucking smart, werent they?

>>36470274
>You dont like the taste of meat, you like the flavor its been seasoned in. Go eat cooked meat all on tis own, WITHOUT ANYTHING ADDED

Have done it, and at worst it's bland. Anyways, there's a lot of veggies that I wouldn't like if not for some seasoning. What is the point here? Even if seasoning on meat is what makes it taste so good, you still can't get that same flavor from seasoned veggies.

>Limiting your meat intake doesnt make a fucking difference...you keep taking in a little bit of shit instead of a lot.

This is why I'm asking for a source. I want to know if a study has been done on veganism vs strict flexitarianism. You could certainly be right, I would just like to see such a study before I am convinced that it isn't just factory farmed animals eaten daily that's causing such hazardous health issues. It would be like saying you should abstain from drinking any alcohol, because look at how much damage drinking a 12 pack a day does do you!

>you still contribute to the industry
okay, so now we're getting into a separate issue here - ethics. That is another topic to discuss, and in my opinion probably one of the biggest reasons for why people become vegan. you could certainly make a big case for that, but it doesn't have to do with the health factor, which is what we're discussing.

Is there any reason why you're coming off as so combative by the way? Surely if you wanted to change people's minds about eating meat, you'd have a better chance of convincing them by being civil about it?

>>36469126
It's pretty funny that there are two active vegan threads right now and both use gorillas for the pictures in the OP.

>>36470376

Sure, whatcha got? I'm here for a few minutes

>>36470384
>posts a roidhead
Roids aren't vegan aniki

No trolling plz

Why do people think vegan = weak?

What difference is there in 3000kcal with same macros, and no meat?

Also with all the carbs shouldn't you have more energy?

>>36470407
Whats the general consensus on fake meats and TVP?

I could complete cut out my weekday meat consumption if i get 100 grams of protein from TVP (~200g TVP dry weight); I know the phytoestro is overblown but at that high consumption do you think it would lead to issues? I'm already eating metric fuck tons of other beans/lentils, I'm not that arsed about the whole IGF-1 thing.

>Live in hip upper class white community
>get a chance to see many vegans and vegetarians in their natural habitat
>vegetarians are fine, they tend to be skinny (this isnt a typical amerifat town) and supplement their diet with cheese and milk and whey, and arent usually assholes about their choices
>vegans are so unhealthy, with loose droopy skin and unhealthy looking children
>even the most clearly white of them have the exact same greenish yellow jaundiced skin town of VG

>>36470389
What ever, do you really think that just because you like the taste, that trumps your fucking health, environment and suffering?

Simple fucking logic for fucks sake

Meat eaters have a huge rate of chronic illness, take away meat from lifestyle, rate fucking freefalls. yes, even if you 8 a little bit, you would still have a higher risk, since its been proven that its the fucking meat, the animal proteins, cholesterol ect that rises the risk.

>>36470409
You guys dick around on this thread posting hundreds of other pictures and THAT guy is a roidhead to you`?

Roids are vegan by the way

>>36470384
Chimps arent vegan at all though, and they are strong as fuck

>All this blatant insulting and superiority complex ITT
See, this kind of bullshit is why I hate vegans. They will insult you to your face and call you retarded/morally inferior/untermench at EVERY FUCKING TURN!

It's fine to post information arguing in favor of 100% vegan diets
It's fine to point out flaws in arguments and refute faulty points

But for the love of God, PLEASE keep the argument civil

And as for the people arguing against vegan diets, please try to actually back your arguments with sources? If you can't bring anything productive to the table, then LEAVE.

>TL,DR: Everyone in this thread is a fucking faggot. EVERYONE.

>>36469126
When hte meem is well executed

>>36470473
>>36470384

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w98mem4FVQ0

Also, meat made us smart as it is much more calorie dense and energy efficient:

http://www.npr.org/2010/08/02/128849908/food-for-thought-meat-based-diet-made-us-smarter

I know you will claim NPR isnt a valid source, and counter with veganforever.biz, but you would be incorrect.

>>36470492
Agreed.

I am a vegan, and i dont get the hostility.

Though i am doing it more for health since i feel less lethargic and lift more vegan. So i dont care what other people do with their diet.

>>36470414
You DO have more energy with all the carbs, all this already factual, these dumb fucks just wont get it through since the industry has successfully melted their brains to keep making money

>vegans are so unhealthy, with loose droopy skin and unhealthy looking children

Full of fucking shit

dairy is fucking unhealthy too. Also, ill say this again retards, GORILLAS ARE VEGAN, AND THEY ARE NOT SKINNY FOR SHIT

>>36470473
Willfully ignore gorillas who are even stronger and vegan. kangaroos too

>>36470492
Im not superior, the food i eat, is.

I didnt insult anyone in my post, its first when you fuckwits came back with insults without refuting any of the fucking studies, that i give back

>muh, vegans are mean, therefore i wont chose a lifestyle thats healthier for myself and better for the planet as a whole

nice on bro

Youre on 4chan by the way, dont bitch about keeping things civil

>>36470538
>Willfully ignore chimps who are aggressive carnivores, half the size of gorillas and 3/4 as strong

Not to mention gorillas are dying out everywhere while chimps thrive

>>36470525
No, carbs are energy sufficient, not meat

I dont even know NPR, also have you completely ignored everything ive provided as sources? did you?

>>36470530
The fucking animal agriculture is FUCKING UP THE PLANET and suffering billions of animals, to produce foods thats fucking unhealthy for us. Really? You dont get the hostility?

>>36470442

Soy products aren't something I've done much research on, I tend to just avoid it, especially when it's processed into something like faux meat. When you say 100g of protein from TVP, is that daily? I would treat it more like a protein powder, just 25g here or there when you need it, not to rely too heavily on it. What's your total protein goal?

>>36470572
Chimps are NOT CARNIVORES YOU FUCKING RETARD

Carnivore = EATS ONLY MEAT, if it eats plant based, it gets fucked up

OMNIVORE = Benefits from both

HERBIVORE = Eats plant based, if it eats meat, it get fucked up

>>36470625
Soy products tastes the closet to meat, and theres nothing wrong with it.

>muh, estrogen's

its plant based estrogen, that doesnt do anything to us

>>36470456
I feel like you're going out of your way to misunderstand me.

Let's ignore the environment and suffering part. I think you can make those points practically null if say for instance, you hunted the meat yourself... But that's another topic.

All I'm asking for is a citation where eating naturally raised meats in very low quantities makes any difference for your health. For example, from my understanding, something like the mediterranean diet (which has a high emphasis on veggies and legumes, but still incorporates proteins like fish and dairy) is eaten by folks who have some of the highest adult life expectancy's. Obviously this doesn't necessarily just have to do with diet, but you would think that if they ate just a little bit of meat as your saying they wouldn't live as long. I think cases such as this is what makes me a little confused is all, and I'm trying to clear that up.

>>36470625
Yeah that would be daily, and pro goal is 180 grams; which I know is a little high but being a former fattie it is one of the only macros which keeps me satiated whilst maintaining sub-15% bf. In the meantime I did have a quick look on examine.com they're saying 50g of pro from soy should be okay so I'll just stick to that.

Quorn would be another one, it's not soy but some mycoprotein thing. Ingredients list doesn't look too suspect

Mycoprotein (89%), Rehydrated Free Range Egg White, Flavouring, Firming Agents: Calcium Chloride, Calcium Acetate, Gelling Agent: Pectin

Sodium is a little high, but the amount of cardio I do would more than likely mitigate it.

And hey, meat eaters!!!!!! Going vegan ellim8s cholesterol intake.

Eating food thats high in cholesterol is why the number one cause of death in the west is now cardiovascular disease, so go on, keep eating your fucking ´meat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis

>>36470683
Nope, we cant ignore that part, i frankly dont care if you wanna fuck your own body up, but as soon as your fucking desires effects others and the fucking planet so badly, then please, STOP

Very low quantities is still that extra bit of cholesterol, animal proteins, fat and many other things that our bodies for some fucking reason cant handle, even though according to /fit/faggots, we are meat eaters, wow, that doesnt make sense!!!

But yeah, that tiny bit is still a tiny bit extra of the bad stuff

>>36470538
Did you not read anything past the first two sentences?
As i said, if you want to info dump valid sources to back your claims, that's fine.
If you want to call out a potentially faulty claim, that's fine.

And I called out everyone else ITT too

Also, do any of these claims take the amount of artificial processing and chemical preservatives into account? The amount of physical activity between test subjects? Metabolism, pre-test average heart rates, prior medical conditions?

And if it won't kill you, I say it would be better if we just stuck to direct sources rather than the reliance on TOTALLY UNBIASED YouTube videos (it's cool that they have citations in the description, but many of the arguments in the videos themselves just seems like blatant stereotypical behavior)

I'm not vegan because I believe that life is sacred
I takes only 1 chicken to hit all my macros for the day, but it takes hundreds, if not thousands of poor beans and rice seeds to satiate me. Vegans are literally worse than Hitler

What does it matter if this or that is natural or what we're supposed to be doing? Who gives a shit what made our ancestors smart? What matters is what is healthiest for us today, and that is a vegetarian diet.

That's right niggers. By avoiding meat you accidentally avoid all sorts of shit that's bad for you, and if you're really worried about the protein you can drink some milk. Hell, if you can't give up meat just be mostly vegetarian and still be strong as fuck with a healthy heart.

>>36470641
Chimps fucking eat other enemy chimps. Even if they season their food with some lettuce they still tear the fuck out of other animals.

You are such an autist.

>>36470581
>I dont even know NPR
>complaining about ignoring sources that are obviously not as reputable

You are an ignoramus.

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>>36470452
Jon Venus, everybody.

>>36470729
I have dumped sources.

I have already linked a video, which contains a study, that shows that lazy vegans have lower rates of cancer than active meat eaters.

Artificial processing probably makes a difference, but cholesterol, fat and acidic animal protein is natural, and that fucks you up. If anything these artificial additives are helping us get rid of ecoli, which is just a bonus


As i said to you and many other idiot, THESE VIDEOS PROVIDE STUDIES IN THE FUCKING DESCRIPTION

>>36470766
THANK YOU

>>36470769
They still arent carnivores you fucking dumb fuck. Do they eat a shit ton of plants? yes, does it fuck them up? NO, THEY THEY ARENT CARNIVORES YOU FUCKWIT

Also, since chimps are pretty much us physiologically, eating meat doesnt benefit them either. Just saying.

How does me admitting i dont know NPR mean i ignore it? Did you read all the studies linked in the videos i posted? of course you didnt

>>36470492
Yeah, I mean, I'm vegan and all these fucking vegan threads is sort of annoying. Yes, I think it's a better diet, but if the audience isn't receptive (which in this case, it largely isn't), I'm not going to try and keep forcing it down someone's throat. Also the sources were laughable. Freelee and Durian are biased af. Some of those (Bite Size Vegan) are okay and provide some really good information. There are also a few vegan bodybuilders on youtube that have lots of good information. This is just tiring, fighting with people 24/7 about which diet is healthier.

Being fat and sedentary causes cancer and cardiovascular disease. Turns out vegan fags are less likely than your average retard to never exercise, eat excessively, or be alcoholics or smokers.

>>36470727

Being fat is the number one reason for cardiovascular disease you fucking idiot. Cholesterol intake isn't even the number one cause for bad blood cholesterol numbers.

>>36470727
>Nope, we cant ignore that part
No, I don't mean they should just be ignored wholesale, I'm saying that we should first address the point of health before moving on to your other points of environment and ethics. Throwing out those arguments just seemed like a distraction from the one aspect I was trying to focus on: health. I'm of course aware of those other problems and would never want to ignore them just because I like the taste of meat. I just feel that there are actually are other solutions which could address those points in my opinion.

>But yeah, that tiny bit is still a tiny bit extra of the bad stuff

Okay, that's fair, but even still it would be pretty negligible wouldn't it? I mean if it wasn't negligible, how else do folks in Japan or Southern Italy/Greece who consume fish and other meats every so often have such notoriety for living into their 100s?

why do vegans rub their diets in your face so much


literally no one else does this, even muslims keep to themselves about ramadan and that's their fuckin religion

>>36470727

>Very low quantities is still that extra bit of cholesterol, animal proteins, fat and many other things that our bodies for some fucking reason cant handle

Yes they can, and do. Animal protein is a lot better than most plant proteins in terms of completeness as well.

>diet consists of oats, peanut butter, olive oil, bananas, beans, no meat
>just can't give up milk and the protein Jew

I've looked into getting almond milk and milk alternatives in the UK but it's all expensive as fuck and never in high quantities

would you say this is a reasonably healthy diet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD0RTBtl0Pc


Ok, listen, OP here, im gonna try to put my aggression up my ass for a moment

Fuck if we are supposed to eat meat, vegan is still healthier for you. Fuck it if you like the taste, there are plenty of good vegan recipies, and tofu taste very fucking close and its healthier. Fuck if you dont give a fuck about animals, then do it for your own cold ass. Fuck if you dont care about any of that, animal agriculture is fucking up the planet and not eating meat means youre not contributing to that.

If none of that appeals to you, go fuck yourself

Also, if you are perfectly aware of how healthy it is, if you are perfectly aware of the suffering this industry puts on beings, if youre perfectly aware of how animal agriculture if fucking up the planet and causing the death of animals, territory AND HUMAN BEINGS, and yet you choose to keep eating meat, fuck you. Just kill yourself.

>>36470877
And why do you think they are fat, bro? its the saturated fat in meat my fellow conscious being

>>36470889
These people arent fucking special m8, they are simply not eating fucking shit like most western cultures do.

No. Animal protein is acidic, and that acidic content goes into our blood, meaning that our body has to neutralize it.

We can neutralize it, the way we do it is, our body takes out phosphorous and calcium from our bones, and plak it to the side of our arteries, there you go, blood g´clogs.

If you think thats handling it, fine then, go ahead

>>36470948
why do you care so much

relax, fuck

>>36470948

>And why do you think they are fat, bro?

The same reason anyone is fat, they eat more than they burn, which you can do with any diet. Hell, bread and sugar are probably the leading contributors to human obesity

>>36470931
Dude, milk isnt good for you either.

Its just isnt. Cow milk is supposed to triple a calf's weight in 6 fucking months, milk increases estrogen, increases risk of breast cancer, increases of ovarian cancers, and many other things

>>36470964
In case you didnt understand, animal agriculture is literally destroying this fucking planet. We have enough food to feed a billion more people then there is now on this planet, but no, all that grains and plant food has to go to these fucking animals instead, so we can kill them for fuckheads like us to eat.

Why do i care so much?

>>36470995
yeah I thought as much
not that it's any better but I only drink like 500-700ml a day

>>36470986
No, i even told you why theyre fat.

1000 calories from carbs isnt the same as 1000 calories from saturated fat.

>>36471012
I used to do that too.

>>36470995
man, i honestly don't care. there are better causes. nuclear disarmament, that's one i give 2 shits about. or terrorism. veganism is pretty much a secondary matter to actual problems in the world.

>>36470948

>No. Animal protein is acidic, and that acidic content goes into our blood, meaning that our body has to neutralize it.

Lol what the fuck. First of all, the first place that food goes when you eat it is your stomach. You know, that sack of battery acid below your lungs?

Secondly, all amino acids regardless of source are weakly acidic.

Thirdly, our body doesn't reduce the acidity of intestinal juices (which are acidic from your stomach acid, not whatever you ate) by leaching minerals from bones. It does through patches of tissue in the small intestine called Brunner's glands, which secrete mucous containing bicarbonate.

>>36470948
>These people arent fucking special m8, they are simply not eating fucking shit like most western cultures do
Which basically convinces me that eating meat in very low quantities while cutting out a lot of the shit we eat in today's society is fine for your health.

Blood clogs might be happening, but apparently they aren't doing anything to prevent these people from living to 100, provided they also don't eat a bunch of other shit like we do. Sounds fine to me!

NOW we have the issue of environment and ethics.

>>36471034
You dont care? You dont fucking care? holy fucking shit

1. Nuclear disarmament, you really think a nation will ever get rid of such power?

2. You cant do jack fucking shit about that, on the other hand, you can actually boycut this shit industry. So even if you dont care, you can stop contributing to it

>>36470538
>kangaroos too
>vegan thinks we're closely related to kangaroos

>>36471032

>1000 calories from carbs isnt the same as 1000 calories from saturated fat.

Well your sort of right. They will trigger different insulin response, and more of the fat will be stored as fat than the carbs, part of which will be used to make glycogen. But in terms of total energy balance, the difference is negligible.

But either way, even if there were a considerable difference, it just means you'd just have to eat less of the more energy dense food. You know, like we already have to do just because of the fact that fat is more energy dense than carbs?

>>36470948
Animal agriculture fucking shit up is really the best argument. Everything else is weakly supported opinion and lifestyle BS, and you sound like a child trying to convince everyone with YouTube videos and Internet articles. Even if what you're saying is true, the condescension you present it with makes me want to disbelieve you. If you actually wanted to make an earth-shattering difference you'd get directly involved with the research and try to get to the bottom of it. Otherwise you're just some dude on the internet spouting Internet content back at other people. You're not a advancing anything; you're probably actually driving people away from your cause.

>>36471062
https://www.google.dk/#q=animal+protein+acidic

There you go, go learn something for once

>>36471063
Let me ask you this, simply not eating as much meat as most westernes do, theire life quality is better

We perfectly know why meat is shit

Now, a logical question. Would theire lives be better or worse, if they completely cut out meat?

>>36471096
Kangeroos are vegan and stronger than the vast majority of human beings. You keep using "muh, chimps eat meat" so there you go

>>36471103
>he difference is negligible.

No its not, go ahead and look at a person who eats 50 bananas a day, compare that to someone who eats the same amount of calories in fat. Its not the same

>>36471121
>Everything else is weakly supported opinion

No its not you retarded fucking moron, read through this entire thread, watch all videos and/or read the studies linked in them, and then come back and talk

Chances are youll have cardiovascular problems in your life, and thats what will kill you. Go vegan, and the risk is way, way, way fucing lower. How the fucking fuck is that an opinion? its facts!!! STOP LYING TO YOURSELF

>>36470817
As for the study involving the "lazy vegans, active meat eaters", you are referring to this:
https://youtu.be/pEQ8orjYNPA
Right?

Because if I recall correctly, Dr. Greger states that the control group and the "exercise alone" group is said to have eaten the "standard American diet" which, I will admit, is a generally poor diet.

That being said, Dr. Greger does state that most of these groups had generally poor health already.

>>36471208

>There you go, go learn something for once

How about you read a book you dane retard. Animal protein and plant protein are composed of literally the same monomer chemicals, just in moderately different proportions, and all of them are close to neutral.

>No its not, go ahead and look at a person who eats 50 bananas a day, compare that to someone who eats the same amount of calories in fat. Its not the same

Someone who eats 50 bananas is going to shit out most of what they eat because the body is literally incapable of fully digesting 50 fucking bananas.

>>36471219
so what?

Vegans are still healthier than active meat eaters. Its the meat in an american diet that makes its shit.

>>36471259
Muh, read a book, books are smart duuurrrhhhuurdurrrr

there are books are children in Hogwarts, i guess those are fucking educational too, innit?

>blufvhsdsidfuhsduf proteins is no different

yes it is, did you even go research from the baby help link i gave you? Or did you just go in to it and decided not to do anything??

go ahead, keep desperately trying to defend your fucking lifestyle. You wont be as glad when you get cancer or more than likely heart disease

>>36471317

My undergrad was in biochemistry. Also your link was to danish fucking google.

All proteins are made of the same set of amino acids, just in different proportions. You would know this if you had even taken highschool biology

>>36471317
Of course, over-consumption of certain foods, such as meats can be a significant factor. But it is not the ONLY significant factor.

Again, to an extent, over-consumption of meat can cause problems. But as far as to say that consuming any meat at all is THE key problem in this equation? I'm still not entirely convinced.

>>36471344
How can a person whos undergrad in biochemistry not know that animal protein is acidic?

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>>36471388

BECAUSE IT'S NOT MORE ACIDIC YOU FUCKING RETARD.

Here's a test you can do for yourself. If it was, a whey protein shake, which is basically just a solution of animal protein in water, would taste sour, but it doesn't!

>>36471382
Not over consumption, meat contains the bad shit. Even youre just eating a little bit, youre still getting a little bit of bad shit, WHICH YOU COULD EASILY AVOID

>>36469280
Implying dogs and cats don't get cancer.

the fuck, now i cant post shit cause 4chan thinks im a bot

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>>36469126
Not a vegan, but veggie, anyone know some good high protein recipes?
Also, is it true that soy products fuck with your gains?

I'm tired of eating granola and oats.

>>36471431
Technically, a better idea for testing acidity would be to use ph testing strips.
You can find them at basically any place that sells pool supplies

>>36471388
Even Greger thinks you're full of shit on this one familal

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/alkaline-diets-animal-protein-and-calcium-loss/

Go ahead and measure the PH value of meat proteins, and compare that to the PH value of plant proteins

Also, they can easily add taste and flavor your retarded fuckwit

>>36471558
They dont, the estrogen in soy is plant based, that doesnt do anything

>>36471572
Who the fuck is Evan?

>>36471583
>Who the fuck is Evan?
Learn how to read

>>36471623
oh shit, gotta go learn how to read, ill come back in a month

>>36470019
Occasionally chimps chimp out on other chimps, killing and eating them. This does not mean you should do the same.

Chimps eat plants 99% of the time.

>>36471583
Wait, why does the fact that the estrogen in soy is plant-based have anything to do with it?
Estrogen is estrogen. It SHOULD have the same chemical composition, no?

>>36471572

>So if our body isn't buffering the acid formed from our diet with our bones, how is it neutralizing the acid? Maybe with our muscles--alkaline diets may protect our muscle mass

>>36471674
Yes, estrogen is estrogen, but plant based estrogen doesnt effect us. Apparently it doesnt, i learned this recently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoestrogens

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>>36471674

>Estrogen is estrogen. It SHOULD have the same chemical composition, no?

different compounds altogether

>>36471687
>We can neutralize it, the way we do it is, our body takes out phosphorous and calcium from our bones, and plak it to the side of our arteries, there you go, blood g´clogs. >>36470948

Was that not what you said initially no?

>>36471721
That is what i said, and thats what happens. That other dude isnt me

>>36471721

I'm a different guy quoting something interesting from the video

>>36471739
But that isn't what is happening, watch the video.

>>36471714
Not the guy you're replying to, but what's the estrogen in meat or dairy products? Only thing that's coming to memory is xenoestrogen but I have no idea if it's related.

>>36471771

Estradiol

>>36471714
>>36471715
Okay, fair enough

>>36470862
This

Correlation =/= causation

>>36469126
I question your psychological health. On one hand, if you know its superior, why do you care to tell everyone? It doesn't make much sense why you would want to fluff your ego on a board where nobody knows who you are. Secondly, if it's so superior, why bother sharing it with others? If you're that pathetic you need to get off on telling losers on the internet they're wrong, holy fuck man.

>>36471989

If he's talking about saving the environment and not killing animals, why wouldn't he want to tell people and get them to do the same?

>>36471989
The lifestyle IS superior, Why do i want to tell everyone? Cause frankly, you eating meat contributes to animal agriculture, which is the leading factor in rain forest destruction, greenhouse emissions, uses a shit ton of water while there are thirsty people, takes a shit ton of plant based foods which wwe could easily feed a billion extra people with etc

so yeah, you eating meat isnt fucking personal anymore, it effects the entire planet

Also, you said it yourself, no one knows who i am, so i cant really feed my fucking ego, can i?

>>36470862
Second'd. I've seen a few studies showing that Vegan's were healthier then the general population, but never one compared to active people an a similarly strict diet.

>>36470092

>We can feed dogs vegan food, does that mean dogs are omnivores? no

Are you fucking retarded?

Shoo shoo gains goblin

>>36472038
Lol, look up faggot. Lazy vegans have lower r8s of cancer than active meat eaters. We already went through this

When youre coming so l8 to a fucking thread, maybe you should read it through

is tumblr raiding us again

>>36472036
Have you ever considered the possibility that many problems can be fixed by reforming the agricultural industry rather than completely dismantling it?

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>>36471418
>no reply from op

if veg is superior then op should have superior gains

Why do vegans feel the need to post justification of how healthy their lifestyle is on a forum which the majority of members do not want to adopt a vegan diet?

Why would they care if any of us adopt their healthier diet?

Or is it just a trojan horse, and they are actually the pussy kind of vegan, using the threat of the health effects of meat to try to convince us to stop murdering their precious cows?

>>36472064

It's almost like people lie about their level of physical activity or something

>>36472064
k
>>36472116
I wouldn't hold your breath.

>>36472106
I have, and it cant

Animal agriculture simply requires too much space, water and food which WE could eat instead.

All the shit is contamin8ing the environment. I know this may be seen as a joke, bull all the animals in this industry, all their farts in one sole day adds literally hundreds of tons of methane.

You cant reform this, the only thing thats sustainable is that everyone go vegan. Thats the sad truth. We cant sustain this planet with people eating meat

>>36472131
And you dont think they monitor that at all, do you?

We can make studies of what people fucking eat, how much they eat but their activity, boy, thats too fucking illusive innit?

>>36472116
Its a superior lifestyle, who fucking said i work out? Also, i keep telling you to look up patrik baboumian

>>36472106

And if they can't?

>>36472069
We fucking wish it was a tumblrfag

>>36472128

Exactly. Why do people talk about things? I shouldn't have to listen to new information. It's fucking stupid, just go somewhere else.

>>36472170
>And you dont think they monitor that at all, do you?
No. Almost no study does. They simply don't have the money or resources too. Almost all diet studies rely solely on self reported data.

>right?

wrong

/thread

>>36472170
But what the fuck are we going to do with all the animals we have now? Just line them up and shoot them all, then throw them in a mass grave Holocaust-style?

>>36472170

>And you dont think they monitor that at all, do you?

They don't, it's self reported

>We can make studies of what people fucking eat, how much they eat but their activity, boy, thats too fucking illusive innit?

What they eat and how much they eat is also self reported, which is one of the greatest weaknesses of such studies

>>36472191
why dont you just admit youre coming up with what ever you can to deny facing your lifestyle?

>>36472217
Good fucking question, but that doesnt change the fact that they are SUFFERING, meat is unhealthy, this industry is causing death or both animal and insect species by ridding this planet for its fucking lungs, it contamin8s the fucking water and seas even.

Were in a fucked up situation. But as long as people are eating their products, theyll keep breeding more

>>36472229
And why exactly would people even lie about that? its anonymous

So you dont believe in ANY dietary studies at all? Why would vegans be "Lying" about how active they are more/less then meat eaters? Why are there these differences if its just lies?

>>36472191
>>36472229
Anybody got a link to the study they did on fat people that showed they massively under-reported their caloric intake?

>>36472258

>And why exactly would people even lie about that?

Who knows? But they do. Something about not even being able to admit to themselves the embarrassing truth of their diet and exercise.

>So you dont believe in ANY dietary studies at all?

Not what I said, I said it weakens their credibility.

>Why would vegans be "Lying" about how active they are more/less then meat eaters? Why are there these differences if its just lies?

Simply put, someone who's a vegan is the kind of person who would be more likely to actually make lifestyle choices that actually do have a positive effect, like regular exercise and not being fat and getting enough sleep, REGARDLESS of their tendency to lie.

>>36472258
>deny facing your lifestyle?
lol I'd still eat meat if it was proven bad for me. Because I like too. Doubly so for environmental impact.

It's just fun to watch Vegans do gymnastics to "prove" their righteousness.
>>36472170
>who fucking said i work out?
lmao

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>>36472270

If you don't want to see threads about veganism, you can hide them. That's it. That's all you have to do. Instead of continuing to comment on something that you obviously are not interested in. There's no need for 'vegans are all faggots kek' when you literally can hide the thread so you don't have to deal with it.

>>36472302
to*

>>36472316

If you don't want to be called a faggot how about you eat some fucking meat

Or you know, not make threads glorifying veganism based on dumbass youtubers spreading broscience tier nonsense.

>>36472316
fair enough, bye faggot vegans, enjoy your fake meat. Because, you know, you have to fake meat to make it appetizing.

>>36472299
How can you trust any of them if you think people can just lie when ever they want? Is it just your bias playing a factor?

Not being fat isnt a choice, its just really fucking hard to get fat while vegan, since youre not stuffing saturated fat into you. That study was about lazy still vegans, compared to active meat eaters. Vegans were healthier

>>36472302
Youre a fucking idiot, at least youre honest.

>>36472299

>someone who's a vegan is the kind of person who would be more likely to actually make lifestyle choices that actually do have a positive effect, like regular exercise and not being fat and getting enough sleep, REGARDLESS of their tendency to lie.

It's nice that you hold vegans in such esteem for vegans, but studies also match people based on those things. People of the same exercise levels, BMI, and (sometimes) hours slept are compared, it's not all random.

>>36472342
This isn't my thread. I'm just tired of all the fucking pointless fighting.

>>36472353
>Youre a fucking idiot
Can't argue with that. But at least I lift.

>>36472349
youre a fucking retard as well

>>36472342
You too. Muh, eat meat, or else youre a faggot

>Eat unhealthy shit and unnecessarily contribute to suffering of animals, cause thats manly

The youtubers link their FUCKING STUDIES, also, are you telling me that the president of american college of cardiology is bro science?

>>36472380
"Muh, i lift

So what? how gr8 m8. you lift heavy objects

>>36472353
Care to cite that particular study again?
So far the only study I've seen was one where both diet AND exeercise were the variables in the "vegan" group.
I have not seen anything implying a group of "lazy" vegans

I don't like crusading vegans but I think there is a good case for transitioning to a more plant-based diet. Don't play the sympathy card because most humans won't be compelled by it the way you emotional sissies are. Just focus on the environmental aspect if you want to convince normal human beings.

>>36472353

>How can you trust any of them if you think people can just lie when ever they want?

Because I know that what they put isn't completely random, there will be some meaningful data from it. Very few scientific articles are objective truth, the truth can be divined by reading them holistically.

>Not being fat isnt a choice

Yes it is

>its just really fucking hard to get fat while vegan, since youre not stuffing saturated fat into you

Bread and sugar are perfectly easy ways to get obese while vegan (or in general), and many do. Just, not proportionally anywhere near as much as the total populace, because someone who's already made the effort to go vegan is less likely to be lazy and stupid enough to eat that much sweets and bread.

The simple fact is that very few people are actually active. They jog a mile on the treadmill a couple times a week and think that that's actually decent exercise and not barely more than being sedentary.

Watch this video at 5:00 meat eaters, this is what youre letting happen when eating all the fucking meat you do, especially when some of you think that eating meat is masculine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfvdypnAgg

We are omnivores. Vegetables should be a significant portion of our diet, but not the only part.

>>36472402
That's how I turned my husband. I don't think he's ever going to be 100% vegan, but I got him on the health and environmental aspects of it. He is a big fan of living longer and not destroying this planet. (Not OP btw)

give me vegan protein sources lad

I have lentils and beans so far, also ordered some soy protein jew

>>36472365

The exercise levels and BMI are controlled by brackets, not numerically. The former of which is done via highly subjective terms, "sedentary" "moderately active" "very active" and the like. It leaves great room for error because few people actually know what decent exercise is. They think walking up the stairs instead of the elevator constitutes having an active lifestyle. And additionally, the level of unawareness will roughly scale with the amount of effort they've actually put into learning about health in general. Meaning that someone who puts no effort into dieting is going to be less likely to give an accurate interpretation of their own physical activity.

BMI is much more objective, but is typically controlled through with brackets, underweight, normal, overweight, obese. That's still a lot of room for bias within each bracket.

>>36472406
>Not being fat isnt a choice

>Yes it is

Hahaha, really? GO ahead, live off McDonalds, can you just choose not to get fat? Eat all that shit, just say "i dont want to get far" then it wont happen, right?

Oh, there will be some meaningful data from it, right? And why exactly does that not apply to the study i linked?

Carbs dont get you fat. It doesnt. Its just thatthe source most people get carbs from are fucking riddled with fat too. Try to become fat off vegies and fruit retard, go ahead and try. Those are high on fucking carbs, fruits are high on sugar

>>36472419
We really arent. We dont have any predatory instincts, eating meat has a ton of negative effects and nothing to add that you cant get from plants. Omnivores benefit from both, and neither fucks them up

>>36472425
Why not just buy meat from ethical sources?

>>36472387
>contribute to suffering of animals
That cruelty tastes delicious, though.
>>36472353
>Not being fat isnt a choice
Muh genetics.

>>36472462
>GO ahead, live off McDonalds, can you just choose not to get fat?
Yes. http://www.niashanks.com/teacher-lost-weight-eating-mcdonalds/

>>36472462

>Hahaha, really? GO ahead, live off McDonalds, can you just choose not to get fat? Eat all that shit, just say "i dont want to get far" then it wont happen, right?

All you have to do is eat below your expenditure. You can eat purely mcdonalds and not get fat if you just don't eat much of it. You'll get horrible constipation from lack of fiber and probably die of some micro nutrient deficiency or another but the laws of thermodynamics apply to metabolism.

>Carbs dont get you fat.

Lipogenesis exists, and is what happens when you eat carbs when your glycogen reserves are already topped off

>eating meat has a ton of negative effects and nothing to add that you cant get from plants

Other than you know, a complete protein and all. I mean, that's not a problem for the modern man, who has mastered agriculture and can transport food long distances, but for primordial man, having multiple and varied grains to make the staple of his diet was next to impossible.

>>36472468

Animals do not have rights.

>>36472485
Well shit...

>>36472472
the cruelty doesnt taste good, you have no idea how much flavor and seasoned meat is, do you?

go ahead, take some pure meat, cook it and eat it. Without ANY additives

It isnt a choice, as i told the other retard "Hahaha, really? GO ahead, live off McDonalds, can you just choose not to get fat? Eat all that shit, just say "i dont want to get far" then it wont happen, right? "

>>36472485
He didnt just choose not to get fat you fucking retard, it says in the article he had to choose what to eat and be active. Also, his stats were shit already, pretty easy not to gain on that

>>36472498
Yes, eat below your what ever, you still arent just choosing not to get fat you fucking idiot. Choosing not to get fat is like no matter what, you just choose not too.

Freelee the banana girls, bitch eats a shit ton of carbs and she isnt fat at all, it doesnt make you fat.

Plants all have full protein profile
yes, it was next to impossible for the past, so fucking what? it is now, and plants are healthier

>>36472462
>GO ahead, live off McDonalds, can you just choose not to get fat?
Yeah you can. Eat less of it.

>we don't have predatory instincts
And you've outed yourself. We are hunters and gatherers, omnivores, eminently practical adaptable. Humans are apex predators, even though that hurts your feelings.

>>36472515
I'm no vegan, I was talking to another anon saying they convince their husband to give up meat because it was mean to eat.

But there are other sources of meat that don't use factory farms, which granted are pretty nightmarish, and you could hunt it for yourself.

>>36472498

>Other than you know, a complete protein and all. I mean, that's not a problem for the modern man, who has mastered agriculture and can transport food long distances, but for primordial man, having multiple and varied grains to make the staple of his diet was next to impossible.

there's really no such thing as an incomplete protein, the plants aren't actually missing amino acids, but regardless chimps are known to eat dozens of different plant species in a day and over 300 different species of plants throughout the year. humans would be eating similarly in their natural habitat. not every plant eating animal has one vegetable they eat and get all their nutrients from.

>>36472557
Are you choosing not to get fat, or are you choosing not to eat too much?

>we are hunter gatheres

DO you know what instincts mean? do you? Put an apple next to a 5 year old, and a bunny. If it takes the bunny, kills it and eats it, then im convinced, we have predatory instincts and we are omnivores.

That just doesnt happen, and kids who do that are usually sociopaths, no jokes

As i have proven above with studies, meat doesnt benefit us, why is that so hard to get into your fucking skull

>>36472575
Why waste money and time on hunting when you can just be vegan and get everything you need?

Also, you still unnecessarily have to kill

>>36472554
>He didnt just choose not to get fat you fucking retard, it says in the article he had to choose what to eat and be active.
>He didn't choose, he had to choose
lmao. I can't remember the last time I laughed this hard.

>>36472455
Seitan has a lot of protein, I believe that is a form of wheat and isn't soy based, but it has a lot of carbs too so you shouldn't have too much. What kind of beans do you have? Chickpeas have 39 grams of protein per cup. If you have the money for it, there are some vegan protein powders out there, just look them up online. A lot of the vegan bodybuilding youtubers use them. You can get cereal that is fortified with protein as well.

>>36472554
Looks like the no meat diet is making you dumb, just look at those arguments and that sentence structure. Try some organ meat, shit's good for ya.

>>36472590
Got to keep the deer population down, since we've removed natural predators. If you're opposed to hunting, we could just leave poisoned grain out, and kill them that way.

>>36472598
you are seriously saying that not getting is a simple choice

its not

You can choose not to do thinks that may lead to it, but at the end of the day, you cant just choose not the get fat, its not a fucking choice

>>36472606
Why the fuck do you care about grammar on 4chan? Also, not an argument

>>36472630

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w34zMpRs4jA

>>36472581
No shit babies don't have predatory instincts. But if you give them some meat, they'll eat it.

Just because you're a pussy who can't fathom killing an animal doesn't mean everyone is so emasculated as you are.

>>36472590
Why waste time gathering every day when I could kill a deer and live on it for a week? Also, who says it's wrong for the strong to devour the weak? Is the lion evil for hunting? The bear? The wolf?

Why waste time having sex when I could just masturbate every day and get everything I need?

>>36472639
It is a simple choice. You can eat less and stay the size you are, or you can choose to eat more and get fat.

>>36472580

First of all, many species of plants will be close to identical for practical and nutritional purposes. But more importantly, similar plants from the same biome are not going to have particularly different protein profiles.

But more importantly, most of the plants that chimps eat have marginal protein content. They are consumed simply for the energy they provide thanks to the chimp's greater ability to digest more stubborn starches than we can.

>>36472554

>yes, it was next to impossible for the past, so fucking what?

So my point is that saying that humans are naturally herbivores is incorrect.

>and plants are healthier

Most people need to eat more plants, but removing meat entirely does nothing over just eating an adequate amount of vegetable matter.

>>36472606
I'm a fan of firebombing myself.

>>36472185
It's hardly a top class debate though, is it?
Every time it happens, it's pretty much just a case of "My diet is the healthiest" "Fuck off vegan" and no give on either side.

This isn't "new information", meat eaters already know the risks of meat, it's not as if the news didn't plaster it everywhere in the last year, but no one actually cares who isn't already eating a vegetarian diet already.

>>36472662
you can give your dog vegan food too, are they omnivores now?

Not wanting to kill animals who never did anything to you is being emascul8ed. Nice b8 m8, you seem fucking insecure.

We arent living 100000 years ago anymore, just because we did something someway before, doesnt mean we should stick to it

>>36472678
You dont see the logical failure here, you are not choosing not to be fat, youre making choices that may lead to it.

Your choice not to be fat is saying "Fuck, im gaining weight, i dont want to" then puff, you arent gaining anymore. Thats what youre saying

>>36472721
Humans are naturally herbivores, just because we were forced to eat meat doesnt mean our fucking physiology suddenly changed in 100 years. I can feed dogs vegan food too, are they herbivores too? Your retarded logic goes both ways

And as i said, who fucking cares if we are supposed to do this or that, whats healthier and better for the environment is the way to go

Removing meat entirely does nothing? yes it does, youre removing the cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease causing element from your food

>>36472757
I have listed a shit ton of facts that show that vegan diet IS healthier

Meat eating in modern day is like a fucking religion. Theres nothing beneficiary from it, people only do it cause that just what we do

>>36472757
What give do you want? Should everyone cave to the vegetarians instead of telling them to fuck off like the fools they are? Especially when they're always bothering everyone else.

A meat based diet is unhealthy, but so is a plant based diet. Humans are healthiest eating mostly plant matter and some meat. What else is there to say?

>>36472793
>it's 2016! Meat is for cavemen!

On what fucking grounds can you say something like "humans are naturally herbivores"? That's the dumbest shit I've ever read. if we were herbivores then eating meat would make us sick. Try feeding meat to a cow, tell me how that goes.

>>36472468
I don't do it for ethical reasons, I do it for health and environmental as well. Although I do think factory farming is incredibly cruel.

>>36472807
Thats why im telling you fucking idiots to read through the fucking thread

>That's the dumbest shit I've ever read. if we were herbivores then eating meat would make us sick

AND IT FUCKING DOES, thats why vegan life style is healthier, cause for some weird reason, when you remove meat, you are healthier. Oh boy, whats going on?

In case you didnt know, cows in the meat industry are fed cows

>>36472793

>Humans are naturally herbivores, just because we were forced to eat meat doesnt mean our fucking physiology suddenly changed in 100 years

You have it completely backwards. The fact that humans had to eat meat for millions of years is exactly why we are omnivores. The fact that modern man can eat only vegetables (if you pick the right ones) does not change the millions of years of adaptation that the body has to eat and process meat.

Dogs are the same way, dogs became omnivores over hundreds of thousands of years due to selective pressure allowing them to be able to digest starch foods stolen from or given by humans. The fact that the modern dog can still eat purely meat and (with much care) purely plants doesn't change their ability to digest both

>>36472830
You dont have to be a touchy emotional person who feels to realize that factory farming is fucked up.

>>36472661
She doesn't know what she is talking about. Painfully ignorant, to the point it hurts to watch.

Why that vegan trollop feels qualified to speak as an authority about a topic she is clueless is beyond me.

And quoting a vegan activist about hunting practices: Couldn't she find a single game ranger that agreed?

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>>36472387
>unhealthy

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0088278
>Moreover, our results showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders), a higher need for health care, and poorer quality of life. Therefore, public health programs are needed in order to reduce the health risk due to nutritional factors

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/14/4/963.long
>Being a vegan was associated with a higher mortality risk (1.59; 95% CI, 0.98-2.59) . . .when compared with nonvegetarians. . .accounting for all other variables

https://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=414816#
>Results: In both men and women, dairy food and calcium intakes were inversely associated with cancers of the digestive system (multivariate relative risk for the highest quintile of total calcium vs the lowest, 0.84; 95% CI, 0.77-0.92 in men, and 0.77; 95% CI, 0.69-0.91 in women). Decreased risk was particularly pronounced with colorectal cancer.

The only studies that consistently purport to show a reduction in mortality in vegetarianism (not veganism, who are always shown to be deathly ill) are Adventist studies, but the Adventist's don't factor for obesity because they believe obesity is divine punishment for eating meat (not even joking). Some of the earlier Adventist papers are straight up hilarious, they show that the meat-eating Adventist cohort was fatter, smoked more, drank more, had higher rates of diabetes and hypertension, then they preceded to use the UNADJUSTED DATA and blame the increased morbidity on meat. Laugh a minute!

>>36472833

>AND IT FUCKING DOES

No it doesn't.

>cause for some weird reason, when you remove meat, you are healthier.

People who abstain from meat are more likely to be healthy than your average stupid asshole who does everything wrong.

>In case you didnt know, cows in the meat industry are fed cows

Maybe in some south american shithole or africa. But western beef is policed enormously for this kind of thing to be certain that prion disease never reaches the consumer.

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>>36472387
>m-muh suffering
Negative Utilitarianism (from which vegfags derive their "morality") is ludicrously grotesque, as Smart put it:

"Suppose that a ruler controls a weapon capable of instantly and painlessly destroying the [world]. Now it is empirically certain that there would be some suffering before all those alive on any proposed destruction day were to die in the natural course of events. Consequently the use of the weapon is bound to diminish suffering, and would be the ruler's duty on NU grounds."

We see then that veganism is the not merely the subjection of the moral for the amoral, but the subjection of the moral for the immoral. The Vegan is shown to be either a monstrous degenerate who wishes to extinguish Life itself, or simpleton you doesn't understand the philosophical underpinnings of their 'morality'.

>>36472849

Or you could spend 10 minutes around a cow and realize it has the self awareness and judgement of an insect.

>>36472833
I'm an idiot? When you're denying humans have been omnivores since forever?

Meat doesn't make you sick, eating an unbalanced diet makes you sick. I can show you plenty of sick vegan motherfuckers because their diet was shit.

Dream on.

>>36472830
You can be healthy while eating meat. I'll give you the environmental concerns though. Modern meat production is hilariously inefficient.

>>36472870
>people who abstain from meat are healthier than the average fatass

Not a high bar you're setting there. Paying any attention to diet and nutrition at all puts you in the minority.

>>36472882
Factory farms are nightmare fuel though, anon. No disputing that one. And it's not just cows in there, also more intelligent animals like pigs.

>>36472865
wait wait wait a sec.
>a vegetarian diet is associated with poorer health (higher incidences of cancer, allergies, and mental health disorders)
>allergies, and mental health disorders

Wouldn't those already be there? You know, kind of like assuming fat meat eaters are fat because they eat meat?

>>36472878
The logical conclusion to eating meat is immoral is that eating is immoral.

I'm 90% vegetarian for environmental reasons but this thread is just stupid. Every single person in this thread needs to die

>>36472933
You first.

You can save the environment a whole bunch western cuckboy.

>>36472909

>Not a high bar you're setting there. Paying any attention to diet and nutrition at all puts you in the minority.

That's precisely my point

>Factory farms are nightmare fuel though, anon. No disputing that one. And it's not just cows in there, also more intelligent animals like pigs.

They're scary to you because they're full of machinery you don't understand. Look at each piece individually and figure out what it means, and you'll realize it's basically just a very scaled up butcher's shop with a built in livestock holding rooms.

Pigs are smarter, I'll give you that. They're also devils. We'd be better off destroying them all

>>36472878
>>36472920
No shit. Vegetarians and vegans would have us all starve because eating other things is unethical. Like most leftist thinking, taking the logic all the way goes to suicide. It's a philosophy of guilt and self-hatred.

>>36472942
Man It's nothing like the butcher shops of yore. It's mechanized slaughter from beginning to end. Yeah they look pretty spooky but that's not what I'm talking about. Intelligent animals raised from birth in captivity, constantly subjected to the screams and smell of blood of their own kind. It's like animal hell in there.

I eat meat and don't feel bad about it, but I won't deny how fucked factory farms really are.

>>36472977
Wait....Do you think animals are raised at the slaughter house?

>>36472977
>constantly subjected to the screams and smell of blood of their own kind.
They aren't born and raised in the slaughterhouse.

>>36472977

>Man It's nothing like the butcher shops of yore.

It's the same concepts, just with robots holding the blade instead of a man.

>Intelligent animals

lol

>raised from birth in captivity

As all livestock ever always were

>constantly subjected to the screams and smell

They do that anyway. I hunt on a beef ranch. The cows have hundreds of acres to roam at any time. You know what they do? All of them, over a hundred huddle shoulder to shoulder under the same few trees in a half acre square and stand and eat and shit until all the grass is gone or covered by their shit, then they move a couple hundred feet and do it again.

They do not give a shit. Animals, especially chickens and cows, aren't even fucking AWARE of a lot of stuff that would bother humans, much less be bothered by them themselves.

>and blood of their own kind.

They are kept clean because infections are costly

>>36472799
The give I want is for the vegan "debate" to end, for the exact reason you stated there.

>>36472793
And veganism is like a fucking religion too.

I have my bible, you have yours, and it's not as if waving it in each others face and screaming doctrine is going to convince anyone to change their minds.

So unless it is fearmongering, a common vegan tactic to win people over to their "religion", taking the form of health, because no one cares about the older "moral" and "environmental" arguments, these threads serve no purpose.


Next time you want to start a vegan thread, may I suggest a "share your bulk/cut veggie friendly meals" thread, rather than preaching.
It will likely be better received, and more likely to convince people to try vegan foods.

>>36473007
>>36473013
A lot of factory farms are in all-in-one sorta deal. Animals raised in cages so small they can't turn around

>>36473020
Then we can talk only about pigs. Chickens are barely sentient and so are most cows. But pigs are smarter than most dogs, yet people would retch seeing a dog farm at anything approaching the level of a modern pig factory farm.

>>36472920
Fallacious. I'm not a vegan and you infuriate me with your stupidity.

Causing less pain by eating things that feel no pain =/= eat nothing.

>>36473045

To be frank, that's because people are stupid and easily imprinted. They see dogs as friends and pigs as livestock because that's what they've been told from birth. I don't really care about east asians eating dogs and cats and any non-vegetarian who does is a dimwitted hypocrite.

That being said, I don't understand the practice. We eat pigs for a reason. They are much better meat livestock. Cats in particular are strictly carnivorous so you're feeding meat that you could have eaten to another animal you intend to eat that doesn't even produce good meat itself. I dunno, probably some superstitious thing, like how they think ground up rhino horn will make their boners stronger

>>36473101
Kind of always wanted a pet pig. I'd feel weird eating my dog when it got old.

>>36473101
I'm not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the horror of factory farming intelligent animals. Pigs can be as intelligent as human toddlers, and toddlers most definitely can experience fear and suffering.

Doesn't bother me people eat dogs, but seeing intelligent animals, be they pigs, dogs, or tiny humans in factory farm conditions is rough. It's one thing to hunt and eat an animal that's lived its life. But it's a whole 'nother deal raising that animal from birth in hellish conditions.

>>36473045
>Animals raised in cages so small they can't turn around

No.....no they aren't. Egg laying chickens but that is about it. Broilers roam around large barns as do pigs (though their are usually smaller cages inside the barn). Cows spend most of their life on the range.

I think you've seen a vegan propaganda piece.

>>36473138

You overestimate the degree to which the conditions would bother even a pig. They live in damp and dark places even in the wild because they must in order to not die, for they lack the ability to sweat or even pant

>>36473045
Pigs just taste really fucking good and most adults are ugly animals, on top of that we rarely interact with pigs so many people feel no remorse for them

>>36473045
>all-in-one sorta deal
Never seen or heard of one of those it's news to me. The pork plant here trucks them in via semi.
>cages so small they can't turn around
Maybe chickens. But outside of stuff like veal, that doesn't happen.

>>36469922
I think you mean condemn, not condone. Try supplementing some b12, it will help with your brain function.

>>36469990

Cabohydrates produce the most insulin per gram, insulin is the primary fat storage hormone

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>>36472920
Ah, so you'd be "a simpleton you doesn't understand the philosophical underpinnings of their 'morality'"

WHY is it immoral? "It's immoral cuz" is not an valid argument. The only reason I've ever heard you faggots is 'm-muh suffering', but, as I already showed, this is a philosophically bankrupt position.

>>36473192
>you've seen a vegan propaganda piece
Maybe. But I've seen other shit too, and I know those places are rough.

>>36473195
Damp and dark, sure. Listening to other pigs squeal and panic, that's different.

>>36473253
Yeah. Just like people try a lot harder to keep cute animals from going extinct, like pandas, than ugly ones.

>>36473308
Even then, I can't imagine the trucked-in pigs were raised in decent conditions. Not that those places don't exist, but they're the exception.

>>36472917
No. Almost all allergies and most mental health disorders are not present at birth.

>>36473395
but are most people vegans and vegetarians early on in their lives? My mate became a vegan last year in his twenties and I've not met more than 1 vegan teen.

>>36473444
A lot of parents force weird shit on their kids. A lot of kids who have like every food allergy were raised by overprotective parents. Child abuse if you ask me.

>>36472455
Oats nigger quinoa nigger your green veggies are a small source of protein nigger pea/Rice protein powder rivals whey protein nigger nuts nigger

>>36469126
Convenience, and i like cooking and the taste of meat.

>>36473393
>>36473393
>Yeah. Just like people try a lot harder to keep cute animals from going extinct, like pandas, than ugly ones.

Pandas are the stupidest adaptation in the animal kingdom.
They are a carnivore, which has chosen to eat a vegetarian diet.
Which would be fine, if 99% of their diet wasn't a type of fucking grass they can't digest properly, leading to an incredibly energy inefficient life, which consists of grazing, shitting 40 times a day, and being too tired to fuck.

I like bears, but Christ, the giant panda is an evolutionary fuckup that probably wouldn't impact the world much if it died out.

>>36472554
>>36472590
>>36472793
"Having found itself in hostile territory and nearly being picked apart by bodybuilders and whey shake enthusiasts, the vegan has revealed its true colors in a last ditch effort to attain the moral high ground. Unfortunately, the vegan's actions will be in vain, and he will not survive the night."