>inb4 do both
Im doing PPL and im currently doing Bench press first on my push day but it makes my OHP trash since I expend all my energy bench pressing.
Im wondering If I should start doing OHP first on one or both days if they help aesthetics
For aesthetics? definitely bench
you'll look fucking stupid without a developed chest
>>37598109
thanks anon, ill just keep OHP as my secondary compound lift then
>Do bench first
>Then do a couple other non shoulder focused exercises after that
>Then do ohp last
Or alternatively do bench earlier in the day then go back that evening.
do both
>>37598120
>going to gym twice
oy vey use skelels on gas!
>non shoulder focused exercises
no good push routine will have this. I do Dips and Incline after OHP after so thats a no go
>>37598124
I do both pham but I cant do both at the same exact time in our 3D universe so I have to make a choice
>>37598094
Do ohp on leg day since you should be doing pplxppl
You might actually be retarded if you do bench and ohp on the same day.
Do bench first on Monday and do OHP first on Thurday
>>37598094
do ohp on shoulder day
>>37598142
do bench followed by OHP
>>37598145
>8 day training scheme
>having one rest day for your shoulders on a routine built to give 2-3
>>37598148
I was thinking this, but im wondering if its useful for aesthetics like the BP to where itll be useful to have it as my main lift
>>37598156
I do that pham and OHP is always trash
Nothing wrong with doing bench and ohp on the same day as some faggot above said.
I personally do bench and ohp and my first pull day and only ohp and my second pull day. Bench only once a week because I have so good chest.
>>37598094
Are you supposed to grip this wide? I've been trying to squeeze my armpits like rippetits told me
>>37598183
>listening to a man with multiple shoulder injuries
>>37598159
>but im wondering if its useful for aesthetics like the BP to where itll be useful to have it as my main lift
Of course. Shoulders make you wider
>>37598159
>1 rest day for shoulders
You rest them on push, pull and the 2 off days in the 8 day cycle
Or are you seriously trying to argue that your shoulders get so tired on bench day it takes more than 1 day to recover?
>inb4 dyel
I bench 150kg and ohp 100kg
>>37598183
>>37598190
Ohp that wide hits more of the medial delts. Typically only used for jerk. I've never actually seen anyone ohp that wide.
>>37598094
Do OHP first OP, the shoulders fatigue more easily due to being a smaller muscle group.
Or alternate:
A: OHP first; B: Bench first.
>>37598331
I'd say bench first, because its a better "driver" exercise, easier to progress with.
Do neither. Incline bench is what real men do.
>Chest/Triceps
>Back/Biceps
>Legs/Shoulders
>Rest
>Repeat
>>37598094
I don't like huge pecs, so i'm going to say OHP, but i think you should do some kind of bench press variety, also the strength from the ohp feeds your bench lifts too
>>37598094
If you're not doing dips your chest is going to look like shit. I usually do:
>bench press
>side lateral raises
>dips
Also, targeting the lateral head of the triceps when you train will make your bench press skyrocket... Dips do exactly that.
>>37598331
But are they as important for aesthetics as bench? basically im trying to gauge if its worth it, but you do make a good point on how shoulders fatigue easier
>>37598283
>posts no pics to back it up
nice E stats, yes you're supposed to work hard enough to where your body takes more than one day to recover for PPL
>>37598366
>4 day training scheme
>Finding compounds that dont have much overlap on shoulders and chest/tris
>>37598372
Isn't chest one of the show muscles? alternating which one starts seems better the more I think about it >>37598394
I already do dips and I end it all with skull crushers
PPL>Full body just so I can get good exercises like those in to help me progress
>>37598366
See I usually hit my delts on chest and triceps day. My split right now:
>chest, triceps and delts
>Long cardio
>Leg day
>Mixed cardio (usually battle ropes and kettle bells)
>back & biceps
>cardio
>cardio
>>37598094
OHP is better because it engages more stablising muscles
>>37598418
Are you a woman, or are you on a cut?
do your OHP on leg day my man
>>37598408
>PPL>Full body just so I can get good exercises like those in to help me progress
You can still do dips and skullcrushers on a full body program
>>37598408
>work hard enough your body needs more than 1 day to recover
Yeah, recover from shoulders. Hence you have 2 days. And you still have 2 days in between bench and shoulders if you pair it with legs
Also this isn't a cbt thread, I'm not going to post pics for some random nigger on the Internet. But I'm 75in and 109kg 17% so the stats aren't that great.
>>37598472
The problem is the time starts to skyrocket, my workouts started taking too long as I added stuff and It was too taxing
>>37598094
go lighter on ohp one day and heavier on bench, and then heavier on ohp and lighter on bench the other push day, i guarantee ull be good with that,
for example one day
3x4-6 heavier bench
4x8 ohp
next push day
3x4-6 ohp
4x8 bench etc. mess around with the rep ragnes
>>37598408
>find compounds..
I do flat, incline, and close grip bench on chest day plus arms and am always recovered for shoulders 2 days later.
If you train so hard that you can't recover in 48hours you're doing it wrong.
Protein synthesis is only elevated for roughly 36 hours. 36-48 is at like 115%. After that, you're just repairing damage and not making gains.
>>37598478
splitting a routine like that just seems dumb
its a 4 day scheme which gets messy and a lot of pull movements use the anterior delts and the front delts are on a lot of front delts
>>37598495
desu it only seems good on a heavy bulk, otherwise why would 5 day splits work if it only takes 48 hours to recover? why couldn't you deadlift heavy 2-3 times a week at the same weight?
>>37598444
Little bit of both and I like the idea of having strong cardio. Any ideas for my split? Maybe an extra leg day after back n bi's
>>37598513
front delts on a lot of push movements >>37598478
>>37598513
You can't DL multiple times a week cuz it's taxing on the nervous system. Also 5 day splits won't work for shit unless you're on roids. And even then you only do 5 days if you're a bb and want to spend hours training one muscle group.
>4 day scheme..
Which is why ppl is stupid in my opinion. Do PPLxUL or something else. I do chest/x/b&s/L
I had the same problem doing PPL. This routine fixes that problem.
Day 1: Chest/arms
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Back/shoulders
Day 4: Off
Why not just alternate the lifts? Anyway, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant in which order you lift.
When growing your chest, I'd say you should do push-ups and dips, you can add weight in both exercises when you advance. The reason you should do these two exercises is simply that with bench press you more or less have to lower the bar to the same spot on your chest, but with push-ups and dips you can change the angle and direction to which your arms do the pushing movement in relation to the angle of your chest.
Simply put, you should do pushing exercises where you push your arms straight downwards, such as dips with your body straight, and straight upwards, such as dumbbell or barbell OHP (dumbbells let you use your middle delts more) and everything in between (chest dips with your body brought into 45 degree tilt), decline bench press, bench press, push-ups, incline bench press)
I do a AxBxAxx/BxAxBxx Split and I do OHP and Bench on A. I just alter which exercise I start with every time I do A. Also I always do Incline Bench after I do bench.
>>37598574
>>37598570
im just gonna alternate and see how my physique improves over 1-2 months and change stuff then
>>37598570
PPLPPLx is 7 day, its been pretty good for me EXCEPT for the topic of this thread but ill just alternate lifts next week and see how it goes
>>37598094
OHP doesn't actually grow your delts that much as a natty, natties with decent shoulders also do lots of raises, seated DB press and other shoulder accessories
so bench is more important
>>37598598
>tfw just as i thought I made up my mind posts like this show up to make me question it
>tfw I just want to get juicy for Uni in the fall
OHP does help trap and serratus development though which is a major plus for me, but then again DB/BB bench also helps serratus if you fully extend
My Push day is
BB orDB Bench 5x5
OHP 5x5
Dips 3x8
DB incline 3x8
Skull crushers 3x8
How about you stop being a dyel and get on am actual program you sack of ass.
>>37598651
because part of the fun of lifting is making your own program once you get off the beginner shit
>>37598668
making your own programs is usually a massive waste of time. maybe you think it's fun, but I think progress is more fun.
>>37598674
>he doesnt lift for himself
>he doesnt lift with exercises that help his goals to make his body his own sculpture
>he instead tries to copy some other dudes body and achievements
I make gains just fine, After getting off a Full Body routine I finally managed To break both my Weighted chinup and DB press plateau
>>37598094
I use OHP as my main upper body lift. I do ULxULxx.
U1 is usually a strength focused session working up to a triple on OHP followed by 3x5 weighted dips. Chins ups and rows are also done. U2 is hypertrophy focused. I start with speed OHP (10 triples) then do some paused bench press and other upper body stuff, all in the 3x8-10 range.
I use the OHP as my primary movement because a) I like the movement more than bench b) chest is easy to develop, as opposed to shoulders which are harder c) OHP is less injury prone
>>37598109
Nah, you'll look more stupid with an over-developed chest than with an under-developed chest.
All the chest development you need you can get from pushups and dips.
>>37598094
OP, do OHP as your main lift and drop the flat bench completely if you don't want to compete in powerlifting. Unless you really really like bench pressing.
Especially if you do incline and dips as well.
>>37598372
Me too, brother.
>>37599942
Pls be honest, did you find it hard to progress with bench, and started to hate the exercise?
Please, please be honest
>>37598142
Bench, French Press, Rope Pushdown, OHP
>>37599950
No, i have a barrel chest and i don't like big pecs.
but i still bench after i do OHP.
I'm doing OHP and bench press on my upper days but alternate which one I do first, is this good or is it gonna cause problems?
>>37598094
Bench + dumbbell shoulder press for aestethics.
First shoulders, then chest. It sucks for the first 2-4 weeks and then it's gravy, at least for me.
>>37598094
I do 5x5 OHP first to get a decent pump in my shoulders, which helps protect my shoulders and make benching more comfortable, since benching pisses off my shoulders off when i do it first.
>>37598109
This is arguably the correct answer. Bench will do more for aesthetics. You can do delt isolations after.
>>37598094
Bench followed by OHP.
Iincline press and decline as well or at least accessory exercises that target those same muscle groups. Also use DB's once in a while...don't be me.
>>37598094
that's a manLET babay!
>>37598183
Is that consideted wide? It looks like a comfortable width that allows his wrists to stay neutral and elbows directly under hands at the beginning and end of the movement.
We've all seen that hipster "one weird trick to fix your OHP" video but imo that's an artificially narrow grip. It inpinged my biceps tendon and caused all kinds of twinges and niggles. I now OHP at something closer to a bench grip and it feels much more natural. Ymmv.
>>37598094
Why not just alternate what you start with?
>>37598094
OHP is an accessory to the bench, treat it as such.
>>37599819
This is the correct answer, but people are too entrenched in benching to see past it.
Nobody has shoulders anymore.
>>37598357
Fuck, that guy's such a fag.
>>37598426
stabilizers don't have to do with aesthetics, which is what OP asked about
>>37598283
>isn't aware benching heavily uses front delt and tris
>recommends ohping with tired lats and traps
>claims 150kg bench
>won't post pictures to disprove us (surprisingly)
If you were lifting anything past intermediate lifts you'd know it takes a lot more rest for you to actually be able to use -decent- weight than 1-2days and that if you try any pressing (lol ESPECIALLY ohp since it requires so much stabilization) the day after you hit traps and lats you'd have 0 stability and would be shaking like a virgin in titty bar under any significant w8
Why the fuck do you try to act smart and give advice to somebody when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about
>>37598094
If you want to do onky one, then you should do bench
However if you want to keep both you're going to have to take periodization into account
That's if you're above intermediate stage (which i assume you are). If you're under intermediate stage, almost anything will work (but some things will work better than others)
If you want to keep current ppl format i suggest you strecth it out to pplxpplxpplx...
Always having 96h of rest will benefit you much more than going full retard 6days/wk
>inb4 hurrdurr you lose gains of you rest 4days
You'll always be able to use heavier weights
Way better overall fatigue management
As for benching and ohping (and to prevent one shitting over the other) it's a no-brainer to do both on push day.
HOWEVER, either do
>intensity bb bench + volume db ohp/incline on first push day and reverse it on 2nd (heavy bb ohp + volume db bench/incline)
Or
>Heavy bb bench + (a movement that heavily hits chest, ie: spoto press
>Heavy ohp + (a movement that heavily hits delts/triceps (ie: paused cgbp or paused dips)
The 2nd way both of lifts can be trained intensely and with much less overall stress but spoto and cgbp aren't considered really "bodybuilding" approved by retards (though as paused movements they have a huge time-under-tension which is a must for bb purposes
>>37601362
Also know that (if we're looking strictly at aesthetics) your side/rear delts are what can make or break your physique
Ohp is all about front delts and triceps (with a little bit of help from side delts in initial stages of the lift and full support of rear delts/traps/lats as stabilizers for the movement
Most people have already decent front delts from doing so much pushing, while all of them look like shit from side cause nobody likes to pull heavy shit
Imho whatever you choose to do, don't disregard the side and rear delts
No amount of ohp can grow side delts as much as laterals will
(Although ohp will greatly help with upping the weights you can use for laterals)
No amount of rowing/pullups will grow rear delts as much as rear delt rows/flys will (although they should accompany rowing/pulling movements)
Chest is also important, but underdeveloped shoulders with big pecs will make your whole physique look really awkward
>>37600887
best teeth in the mcfugging game
>>37598094
Alternate between starting with OHP and starting with bench.
>>37601362
I OHP 140lb. How much longer until I can't press heavy the day after hitting lats/traps/back?
315x1 Bench
190x1 OHP
185 BW
When I ran PPL, I rotated. One day a week of the PPL, I do Bench first and the other I do OHP first. I use different weights and progress at different rates for them. OHP is absolutely critical for great shoulder development, and actually helps your bench progress as well. I would never go back to doing bench always first, or OHP always first.
>>37599950
But the OHP is harder to progress, is not about ego, i like wiide shoulders and back and tiny traps and a little big chest
>>37600424
good one
>>37598145
It's pretty easy to incorporate both on the same day, if you are trying to do a push pull type scheme. I just alternate intensity and volume and they don't interfere with each other.
>>37598574
how do you do back and shoulders without using your arms muscles?
>>37598574
Just hitting everything once a week? why not twice?
>>37598094
Do both, get some better work capacity or more food you cuck
>>37598142
you have two push days a week, so just alternate your starting lift
>>37598183
My grip is a thumb's length away from where the bar goes from smooth to textured
>>37600117
This is the correct response
>>37598094
I may be mistaken, but I believe Mark Rippetoe advises keeping the elbows closer to the body, though still maintaining a parallel line from the wrists to the elbows, than what we see in this pic?
I do shoulders (strength) chest (hypertrophy) first day and then chest (strength) shoulders (hypertrophy) next time.
It's probably broscience but after fatiguing your tris/shoulders doing shoulder strength then I find it easier to target my chest in the hypertrophy lifts.
>>37598094
Alternate every push day u dingus
Is OHP the most memed on lift in existence? Every single fitness instructor tells you a different form for it, nobody can agree on the grip, I mean what the fuck even is it supposed to be?
>>37603695
It feels so alpha though
