Criteria:
>Easy to progress/micro load
>Good contraction of desired muscles
>Hard to cheat
>Hard to hurt yourself
>>37383839
Chest supported row T-bar row, cable row, Pendlay row, all are basically the same stuff.
I use a machine. I prefer it to
>bent-over rows
>Pendlay rows (lol)
>dumbbell rows
>cable rows (this would be my 2nd option)
>>37383839
Chinups and deadlifts:
1) fit every single one of your criteria (except being an actual row)
2) are all you need for an amazing back
But you won't take that for an answer, so i say chest supported rows.
>>37383887
>Chinups
>hard to cheat
top kip
>>37383872
Cool anon. I use cable rows but I might try the machine. I think you mean pic related?
>>37383867
>tfw no chest support in uni gym
I fucking hate it
>>37383887
I do these two.
I just think a horizontal row is crucial for posture and trap development.
Chin-ups are lats (which actually make posture worse because how the lat is attached in front of your shoulders)
Deadlifts are good for trap development but I need more than that one move.
the barbell row (which some people think is called pendlay row) is the only row worth caring about.
>pull ups for overall development
>face pulls and shrugs for trap development
>deadlifts for spine issues
but I've got to say I've never experienced a pump like I did with pic related. It's rare to find a nautilus pullover machine but if you do, your back will fucking explode. Dorian Yates used it back in his day as a staple for his routine.
>>37383909
Yes, it's similar. My progress has been linear in it and I have reached weights so high that I really have to watch out for my nuts.
Cheating in it is possible but the threshold is high and you'll know when you cheat.
>>37383950
It's the worst row.
>>37383997
I'll keep an eye out for that. It looks sweet like you can't even use your biceps. I'm drooling.
>>37383997
>>37384163
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBPullover.html
>>37383906
You have to willingly kip a chinup, but barbell rows just beg to be cheated.
If you want to kuck yourself out of your gains, by all means cheat.
>>37383945
>Chin-ups are lats (which actually make posture worse because how the lat is attached in front of your shoulders)
A properly excecuted chinup involves shoulder extension, and actually in a greater rom than rows because the humerus rotates 180 degrees, ad opposed to 90 with rows.
If you are that concerned about posture, just stretch.
>>37383872
What muscles are you supposed to be nailing with bent over rows. I think my form blows because my lats and lower back seem slightly worked out, meanwhile my forearms are getting tired. In the end just feels not that good. Any tips?
>>37383839
Yates. Less work done by your lower back with most of it on your upper and traps.
>>37384998
a pullover is literally a chinup with only the shoulder extension component
if you cant see how that works your back you're a retard
>>37385250
>row works lats less than chinups
>row works mid traps/rhomboids less than a facepull
why exactly should I row?
>>37384998
I do dumbbell pull overs and I can tell you that they don't target the lats even 50% as well as notalius pullover machine. I don't even know if they make the machine anymore but I'm telling you dude, it's insane the kind of pump you get from it.
>>37385557
Iirc rows make your lats thicker, while chinups and chinpullups make your lats wider.
Both give them a nice 3 dimensional look.
If I'm mistaken, then I'm doing rows for no reason
>>37385557
That's excactly my point, you don't have to. Read >>37383945 again.
Only people who should row at all are either fat newbies who cannot perform a chinup or people who don't want to DL for whatever reason*, to do some erector stabilising work under load.
Rows are full of disadvantages:
>Easy to cheat
>Tire your posterior chain out, kucking you out of DL gains the next day
>Less rom for biceps, triceps, lats, traps, everything.
>Performed with the barbell away from your cog, you are at a constant mechanical disadvantage. Either you will get tired and snap, or get tired and cheat your reps, or you will perform perfect reps but with low intensity and volume. In any case no gains
>Inferior in literally every way to chinups and DLs convo
Seriously, there is zero reason to row. Row if you want, you just have nothing to gain. Like potato chips. Except these are good.
*: Key word: want. If there is a medical issue and you CAN'T do DLs, you shouldnt row either.
>>37385949
well shit. maybe i should stop doing bent over rows.
>>37385909
>Iirc rows make your lats thicker, while chinups and chinpullups make your lats wider.
>Both give them a nice 3 dimensional look.
Retarded or bait? Can't tell. Muscle fibers don't choose to grow in the direction you move. In fact, all muscles pull axially so they will grow perpendicular to their length. This allows for more stress to be handled, since the area is wider.
For me Kroc Rows are the ones that I feel the most in my lats and back muscles, heavy barbell rows just feel like a hip extension movement
>>37385997
Oh yeah
>>37385972
>>37385557
There are gains to be made from DB rows. Your posterior chain is not fatigued because of the supported and your torso is subjected to a twisting load, which gives you extra stabilising gains. Unilateral work needs more love in fitness.
Do these, I approve. AFTER chinups though.
>>37385459
Use Straps, your hands cant handle the same weight your back can. Do some grip work man thats the best way to fix that problem but in the mean time use straps.
>>37383839
i only do calisthenics but hammer grip pullups a bit wider that shoulder and weighted inverted rows will do the trick for upper back if someone wants to add some bodyweight to their routine plus in my experience i've never hurt myself, but it's kind of hard to progress in pullups specially if you are not doing them weighted
