/owg/ /wlg/
Images are sometimes not shown due to bandwidth/network limitations. Refreshing the page usually helps.
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
You are currently reading a thread in /fit/ - Fitness
A thread for the discussion of the sport of weightlifting and all things related. Keep the insults, bullying, and shitposting to a minimum.
>Pas stop shitposting edition
>Everett Basic Novice Program
http://imgur.com/pCKsrOM
>Takano Example Programs [CIII, CII, CI, CMS]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M8AqZyApAyeSx-AoX3drVwpQEAJzVDvAJsE9PKoPwZw/edit?usp=sharing
>How to Snatch w/ Klokov
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGYKQZg-b1FYhl4P8OnCd_C2v2tjOC55X
>How to Clean & Jerk w/ Klokov
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGYKQZg-b1FaJbNrQrwYXkP0BVDKdTpPy
>Useful videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl3WCm2GfvLxvH877oJ1xEA/playlists
>Helpful blogs
yashathoughts.com
chinfl.blogspot.com
>Commisar's notes on the dank, zesty Meme Method (DZMM)
http://pastebin.com/u0jiY8sM
>>37286150
im out never gonna post agen
daily reminder to let threads made by this fag just die
>>37286197
Finally. Good riddance. I'm not even trappy-chan but you were ruining /owg/
>>37286252
alex you dont even lift anymore
i say i dont post but i actually post hahah
Not to be mean to trappy but pas has a way better op
glad to see Dmitry is a /DARK HAIR/ alpha male. It's a shame that he doesn't spread his seed more to remove the light blonde inferiors
>>37286341
>still 3 posters
Fake commisar pls go
>>37286354
He was actually blond when he was young.
>>37286355
i'm da real guy yo
i have some back squat volume planned for the future because i'm a week faggot who shouldnt even be attempting 150 if i only fs 157
https://www.instagram.com/p/BFwnRkIhKUR/
Is Phil the strongest person on /fit/?
Has anyone on /wlg/ ever been able to squat more than him?
>>37286423
you're gonna fucking break your wrists one of these days maxing out when you're not ready for it and ur gonna cry
bitch
>>37286454
Trip on deliuge
>>37286454
ok
>>37286472
Will i ever be as good as you? Im so fucking trash feels bad man. I started in the fall and am still shit
>>37286466
I don't trip, I name
>>37286532
Hey dw I started in the fall too
>>37286341
Not to be mean to you but you're objectively wrong
>>37286532
only if you let me coach you :^)
and if you post in the proper thread
>>37286579
>everett/takano
shit
>same klokov vids
the blogs are gud
hey that pastebin at the end is pretty great :^)
Pas has more useful shit in his
>>37286617
'No'
He has a dumb blog where he tells people dumb stuff like don't deadlift hurr durr
I used to listen to him. Then I decided to start deadlifting and my numbers in the cj shoot up like never before.
Klokov videos > Fatfuck Pendlay videos and leddit faq
>>37286617
I think the blogs tend to be more useful because they explain things in a way that someone learning can understand
the klokov vids are ok in isolation when you are referring to a specific issue like not pulling under but they don't really suit a 'watch this to learn everthing' approach
>>37286150
also from personal experience I have not really found everett's programs great. It was something I assumed was ok when I didn't know any different but I have done better on programs with less frills and memes like push jerks
>>37286674
The blog is in the OP though.
>>37286674
Where are you seeing push jerks? http://imgur.com/pCKsrOM
>>37286648
your technique is probably pretty shitty, man
unless your body is really undeveloped
>>37286363
yeah, then he became a man
>>37286705
yeah
I simply dislike the addition of the first 4 links, placed in pole position
I'm steadily realizing how shit I am at this, but the more I do the more I realize that a lot of this isn't too useful
>>37286723
meant power jerks, but now that I see your post maybe I'm thinking of his other beginner routine
incidentally where are the pulls in that pic
>>37286724
>commisar telling other people their technique is shit
I've seen it all now.
Please don't become Pas 2.0. You're still young, don't grow like a manchild.
>>37286741
Literally on friday.
>>37286760
yeah only one day whereas pullups get 2 days
I dunno why he doesn't just put GPP and other BB work at the end in addition to classics pulls and squats
>>37286752
If deadlifting made your clean go up you have shitty tech
>>37286776
You're ignoring that you're deadlifting on tuesday, and doing the classics on monday and thursday.
>>37286752
>>37286648
Your tech is probs really shitty then
Also are you sure he meant don't deadlift clean pull instead?
Chinese do a shitload of pulls, more than squats even
>>37286780
>>37286792
USSR weightlifting does lots of deadlifting.
USSR countries >>>>>>>>> chinese
>>37286790
I'm not ignoring it
I'm saying that ignoring pulls doesn't make sense especially when you see a shitload of pullups
>>37286806
Lol
>>37286809
You're pulling every workout, whether it's deadlifting, full classics or clean/snatch pulls.
How long have you been training commi?
>>37286423
nice haircut
>>37286197
>agen
>>37286822
not sure you usually count classics as part of pulling volume but then this isn't my area of expertise
idk just from personal experience, pulls are the most important assistance lifts and should be upwards of 3x/week at least
>>37286893
>giving priority to pulls instead of classics
'No'
>>37286911
didn't say that senpai
I said you should do the classics and independently increase pulling volume relative to the pic you showed me
I heavily implied that the routine would be better if you swapped out pullups for pulls
>>37286945
I think it strikes a good balance between strength training and speciifc weightlifting training for a newbie lifter.
I have no idea how you expect to do pulls after 30 reps of sn and cj
your legs and lower back will be fried
pull-ups and chin-ups are good for the upperbody, traps lats and to keep your biceps safe from injury.
>>37286423
Commy that qt in the pink is mirin you
Talk to her
>>37287016
>filename
My sides
>>37286993
>I have no idea how you expect to do pulls after 30 reps of sn and cj
your legs and lower back will be fried
'No'
>>37287041
>max out cj for 15 total reps
>max out snatch for 15 total reps
>wants to do pulls after
If you're gonna do Commisar style of pull where you do a shitty deadlift with a shrug at the top it doesn't count.
>>37286423
POST BOYPUSSY NOW GODDAMMIT
>>37286423
its surprising just how safe oly lifting is
>>37287054
What kind of program are you running where you max out both lifts everyday for 15 reps?
Must be some dumb shit
You're talking to caladan the whole time
He's right you're wrong
End.
>>37287069
very safe
>>37287083
http://imgur.com/pCKsrOM
what the hell do you think we were talking about?
>>37287095
Half of those are warm ups counted for the 15 reps. So basically just one max attempt for the day and the rest are light lifts
Someone who has lifted even for a few months can do that and still do pulls after
It's a stupid beginner program was his first point which is correct
>>37287115
'No'
>>37287087
vanev is my fav
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDDzuRviFKA
>>37287087
>>37287087
Christ how horrifying
>>37286993
Lol
Also check out this sik captcha
>>37287206
>>37287239
Reminder to stay away from steroids kids.
>>37287263
Haha that's similar to your name dewd1¡¡¡
juan, you and i have really similar positions in the classics but you can almost do full splits and i can't get anywhere near as far down as you
how does that work?
how into splits?
>>37288006
I am a beginner but holy fuck this thread.
Just stretch more for splits. Flexibility and strength in split position isn't mobility.
Also, to anyone in this thread, as a beginner myself doing pulls often which was suggested by someone here, more so than the classics and squats are making my classics shoot up. I regret following the focus classics and squat advice.
>>37286566
Why do you lie. You start oly way longer ago I remember your videos of you with just the bar
>>37286806
Soviets didn't do any conventional deadlifting ya sperg
>>37288854
You realise just because it worked for you doesn't mean it's what other people need? You were probably weak with a shit pull.
That's the problem with diagnosing beginners issues with no videos and no history. 'Do more pulls than classics' is fucking retarded if your problem isn't with the pull.
>>37289254
Open the takano spreadsheet and ctrl+f for clean deadlift
>inb4 clean dl isn't conventional dl
>>37286423
People in the back mirin hard :P
>>37286341
Not to be mean to anyone else but Durks has a way better OP
He just needs to find another gf now... kek
>>37286454
isaac pls stop the bullying
>>37286617
>>37286648
>>37286674
>>37286724
>>37286741
>>37286780
>>37286792
lol @ this discussion
Chinese and Bulgarian don't like Deadlifting much, Soviets do. Just different methodologies, don't mean someone is right and someone is wrong as all of those methods have produced results.
Sure it's not as specific, but neither is the back squat (inb4 ohs = back squat meme).
I also don't like the Everett program much... but it's better than nothing. And for someone who has been doing SL/SS and wants to get into WL, it's a fine place to start. If you guys want something better, you could make it or suggest it.
As for complaining about Klokov's videos, I'm still waiting for someone to provide something better. The videos won't teach everything someone needs to know about WL, but it's again, a good place to start (and better than Pendlay's imo).
As for the OP, I've already apologized to Pas for removing his blog (I didn't realise the blog was his at the time).
As for changing the OP, it's an obvious problem that needed addressing. Just because I had one shot at it doesn't mean it's perfect and no one else can have their input or change it to what they think works best. Please stop sperging out because of minor stuff.
Just add the stuff you think are gonna be helpful for new people when you make a new OP. Or just do what people do half the time and don't add anything.
>>37286150
Remove the links with PLG with the URL
It fucks up my searches and now owg shit comes up when I search plg (you know the thread for actual strong people and not the ones who like vicariously through Clarence, klokov etc)
>>37289609
It literally isn't a conventional dead
If you think it is you're a fucking idiot
>>37289967
Soviets didn't do conventional deadlifts tho
Most of the deadlift work they did was based on snatch deadlifts (which is just a partial pull essentially) as they taught it had to be a certain % of the full snatch
>>37289967
Everett's program isn't for total noobs, it's for people who know how to do the lifts in at least some capacity, that's my main beef with it being given out to people with zero lifting experience.
>>37289967
>Chinese and Bulgarian don't like Deadlifting much, Soviets do
Soviets aren't alive anymore, andt hey did pulls anyway, not deadlifts.
Chinese pull heavier than Russians do / Soviets did too btw
Abadjiev didnt really advocate pulls at all afaik (lower level Bulgarian lifters did not train using Abadjiev's system)
You may be getting confued over terminology; some people like to call heavy pulls deadlifts, but these are not and should not be anything like a conventional powerlifting deadlift.
>>37289967
>As for changing the OP, it's an obvious problem that needed addressing. Just because I had one shot at it doesn't mean it's perfect and no one else can have their input or change it to what they think works best. Please stop sperging out because of minor stuff.
>Just add the stuff you think are gonna be helpful for new people when you make a new OP. Or just do what people do half the time and don't add anything.
Since when have the point of /owg/ been to be a free of charge coaching central for beginners who are stupid enough to ask questions on 4chan? You are very new to the sport, and does not have very much knowledge about weightlifting. Why do you think you are in a position to teach others about weightlifting? /Owg/ was literally fine as it was before you showed up, just admit that you want to turn /owg/ into another /noobs jerk off to trappy general/.
>>37290282
>Soviets aren't alive anymore
The system is. To some extent. That's what I'm talking about.
>andt hey did pulls anyway, not deadlifts.
They did deadlifts all the time, at least when they were in their "strength period". Eventually they moved into periods that were a lot more focused on classics and speed.
>some people like to call heavy pulls deadlifts, but these are not and should not be anything like a conventional powerlifting deadlift
The soviets train the conventional deadlift (which they simply call Clean Deadlift).
It's not a clean pull. Though they also do pulls.
>>37290065
They did. Where the hell are you people taking the info from that the soviets didn't do deadlifts?
Seriously, point a single source. I'm willing to ignore that different coaches have different methods, but just point one that doesn't have deadlifts in their programs.
Everything you read about them you'll see they talk about how much more focused on strength they are than chinese or bulgarian.
Every program I've looked at so far has deadlifts and snatch deadlifts. If you look for videos you'll find them doing heavy deadlifts all the time.
>>37290045
Alright, let's play a game then.
Point the differences in the Clean Deadlift and the Conventional Deadlift.
>>37290322
Here your (you)
>>37290081
In the book that's literally the program he has for total noobs. He literally talks about how the lifter won't have a 1RM yet, and how the lifts have no prescribed load.
>>37290437
>Point the differences in the Clean Deadlift and the Conventional Deadlift
Clean deadlift is same motion as the first part of the clean, while conventional positions you to pull the most weight off the ground mechanically. Very significant differences in angles and stance
>inb4 first part of clean is just a deadlift
A clean pull is a movement that positions body in where power is optimally generated. A deadlift is a lift that allows most weight to be pulled off floor. Nobody can generate enough power to clean a heavy deadlift(near max), so strength off floor is less of a limiting reagent than explosiveness in extension. Therefore, the deadlift (designed to pull most weight off ground as possible) is largely irrelevant in wl and should be wholly replaced by clean pulls
>>37290545
>Very significant differences in angles and stance
Point them out so I can point how this is not entirely accurate.
>Therefore, the deadlift is largely irrelevant in wl
For Chinese weightlifting.
Russians will disagree. The strength and mass you build with deadlifts are all directly transferable to the classics, just like with the back squat.
>>37290437
Chinese do 'hard pulls' which are probably what you call a clean deadlift. afaik chinese tend to do these are higher percentages than the soviets/russians.
I call these pulls, and I feel thats a more accurate way to describe them to avoid confusion.
>Point the differences in the Clean Deadlift and the Conventional Deadlift.
surely you've seen good powerlifters deadlifting?
also klokov's heavy pulls aren't the best example for what a heavy weightlifters pull looks like
>>37290608
>For Chinese weightlifting.
if you stopped trying to talk about stuff you obviously are very ignorant about you'd avoid lots of this drama
>>37290608
why doesn't he finish the end of the rep by squeezing his glutes? it looks like he does 90% of the motion.
>>37290623
>surely you've seen good powerlifters deadlifting?
I've seen many people deadlift. Strongman, Powerlifters, Weightlifters. People who don't even train for any of those.
>also klokov's heavy pulls aren't the best example for what a heavy weightlifters pull looks like
I'm not talking about Klokov.
>you'd avoid lots of this drama
What drama?
We're just talking about weightlifting, training, and technique here. Not every discussion is supposed to be a fight.
Chill down.
>>37290652
You are a very annoying person, and love to create drama and try to blame others.
You also love to argue for idiotic points and refuse to clarify your points, claiming others misunderstanding is their fault and not because you are shit at articulating your dumb points.
Fuck off.
>>37290678
Learn to talk to other people and discuss stuff without getting angry and wanting to fight and create drama.
Be more humble and open. You don't know everything.
>>37290704
Be more self aware
>>37290727
Project less.
I'm here to talk about weightlifting, not fight in your childish ego drama.
>>37287087
the guys that stood up and clapped in the background made me laugh
why the fuck are you clapping?
>>37290608
You can also gain the same strength through clean pulls
In a deadlift, hips are high to put load in glutes and hamstrings, arms perpendicular to ground in narrow grip, with narrow stance
As opposed to clean pull, with low hips, arms at rack width, tight upper back, feet at extension width
>>37290678
>Chill dude, don't let mere conversations become fights
Snatch it off
>>37290897
I'll answer in multiple posts so I can post vids.
>In a deadlift, hips are high
>As opposed to clean pull, with low hips
This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
Novices are taught to start the DL with the hips already in the high position, but you'll find many of the strongest deadlifters actually prefer starting with low hips.
See vid.
>>37290929
Hehe i meant to greentext the "fuck off" part not myself
>>37290897
>arms perpendicular to ground in narrow grip
>arms at rack width
Personal preference. Many of the strongest deadlifters have a rack width grip.
See vid.
>>37290930
>Novices are taught to start the DL with the hips already in the high position, but you'll find many of the strongest deadlifters actually prefer starting with low hips.
>
>See vid.
His deadlift doesn't start with low hips.
>>37290897
>with narrow stance
>feet at extension width
Personal preference. See >>37290942
>tight upper back
While there are some very strong deadlifters who do it with a rounded or slightly rounded upperback (vid), this is not the norm.
What most people will consider a "proper deadlift" includes extension and tightness through the entire length of the spinal erectors, and scapulae depression for lats tightness (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm7ZbgjZklE)
>>37290943
Read again
>This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
>>37290608
Trappy, the Russians did clean and snatch deadlifts
Not conventional deadlifts
Show me one source that includes conventional deadlifts
All deadlifts programmed in Soviet programs is basically a clean pull with no extension, not a normal deadlift
You're wrong here.
>>37290704
There's irony here, you've dismissed everyone on certain points just like pas is
>>37290981
He's saying clean deadlifts are conventional deadlifts
Look up his posts
>>37290930
>>37290942
both of these guys also have very distinct tech
personally I DL with really high hips, a lot higher than hall and marcel, and it would be a very different movement if someone told me to do a clean deadlift. Torso needs to be a little more upright in clean dl than it does in the majority of deadlifts
also I think clean deadlift/pull rely a lot more heavily on extremely controlled upper and lower back because you need to keep that tightness on extension, but the requirement is relaxed in deadlift because there's no requirement to keep the bar close once you pass power point
I think you're right in that some deadlifts resemble clean deadlifts but certainly not enough of them to consider it a blanket pronouncement that the lifts are the same
>>37290981
Clean deadlift = Conventional Deadlift
Only difference is that it specifies that you should use rack width grip (which many deadlifters naturally prefer), and more focus on form than weight.
The movement is the same.
See >>37290930 >>37290942 >>37290971
>>37290988
What am I dismissing?
I'm discussing all the point being thrown at me.
>>37290971
>This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
Unrelevant to your point unless you argue that people should use different form on light and heavy weights. A conventional deadlift starts with hips at he point where the lifter can get the best starting position. A clean deadlift tries to mimick the first part of the lifters clean.
>>37290991
But they aren't. The point that some conventional dead lifters have a deadlift resembling a clean is irrelevant. That's how they pull the most.
Implying the Soviet system employed a conventional deadlift (in which you move the most weight)/is wrong. They'd teach it the same as the pull in the clean. Wether that matches someone's conventional dead is irrelevant.
>>37291012
The movement isn't the same, because most people's conventional dead isn't the same as their clean, and they are taught for different reasons.
>>37291012
Isn't the weight felt in different positions of the feet in clean deadlift and conv deadlift?
>>37291014
This; is trappy implying your hips should shoot up when you clean heavy too?
>>37291014
>A conventional deadlift starts with hips at he point where the lifter can get the best starting position
No. Many prefer having a dynamic start where they place their hips lower. See >>37291012 >>37290930
>A clean deadlift tries to mimick the first part of the lifters clean.
Which is exactly my point. >>37291012
>>37291005
If you put heavy weights and try to do a Clean DL, you'll simply do a DL.
This is my entire point.
The minor differences are merely less focus on weight, more focus on form.
The mechanics of both work the same way.
>>37291033
>>37291047
No one is talking about the clean.
>>37291021
I didn't ask you to tell me the difference fucker
I lift more than you.
I was just saying what this gay dude thinks.
>>37291046
Where the weight is felt is merely dependant on the position of the bar.
Eddie Hall >>37290930, for example, rocked back and forth on his feet, eventually settling for weight on top of the middle of the feet as the bar raises up - as that's the natural position will body will settle into once the weight is heavy.
>>37291062
There you go guys
Rewrite the books fuck all those people telling you clean dl =! conventional dl
A gay dude on 4chan has said it. It's always correct since it came from a gay dude and from 4chan
>>37291062
>>If you put heavy weights and try to do a Clean DL, you'll simply do a DL.
>This is my entire point.
>The minor differences are merely less focus on weight, more focus on form.
>The mechanics of both work the same way.
Ah ok so you just put me on the ruse cruise. That's a wasted 30 mins.
>>37291021
This is correct
You have to understand that they are two different exercises with separate purposes. That's like saying a sports car and truck are the same because they both drive the same, any difference is just the driver's preference
Dealifters pull with with weight through heels, making the center of gravity completely different. You can't argue that they're the same lift when they're fundamentally different with different goals in mind
>>37291062
fuark he did that easy as fuck
>>37291086
And there you go appealing to authorities, exaggerating to make it seem more right, and mocking irrelevant things to put somebody down..
Its you who should shut up
>>37291100
Eddie Hall also put the weight on his heels at the start. >>37290930
Compare Eddie's deadlift to Berestov clean deadlift (vid) and you might come to a surprising conclusion.
>arguing with a mentally challenged person
>>37291080
Learn the difference between a lift and a pre-lift ritual. Eddie started his deadlift with high hips and he didn't rock back and forth during his deadlift.
>>37291163
You're literally repeating what I said.
>This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
>>37291133
But isn't berestovs weight more at the mid part of the foot until knees (shins more inclined)? If you look this >>37291012
kirill almost instantly puts the weight to heels, making his shins vertical
>>37291179
Heavy weight will always want to settle over the middle of your feet.
Kirill's pull is not on his heels, it's on the middle of his feet. Look where the bar is as it leaves the ground.
He initially puts the weight on his heels when he rocks his hips lower and back, but as the bar leaves the ground, weight is over the middle of the feet.
Same deal with Berestov, but as Berestov has heels on, his shins are less vertical.
>>37291206
Ok thanks this made it more clear
>>37291170
I'm guessing you also think a deadlift is the same movement as a deadlift to knees, since you can just put on more weight until it gets stuck at knee level?
>>37291012
why do you say clean dl = conventional dl then post webms that contradict your point?
clean dl is hips lower, more quads. hips and knees don't fully extend. if they do, then it is clean drive/high pull.
>>37291183
(*₩*)
Cant hide for long
>>37291268
I'm guessing you also think the sky is red and the earth is flat?
>>37291302
Read the posts instead of just clicking on the videos senpai.
>>37291062
Coaches wouldn't allow the hips to shoot up, as this doesn't mimic the clean. If the weight caused this, you would change your programme and work within a % that allows correct technique
>>37291356
I'm 99% sure you will never see a vagina in your life
>>37291133
I feel like you're confusing the start of the pull with the start of the dynamic start
Eddie hall began the pull with hips higher
>>37290642
time under tension on the largest muscle group
>>37291417
Why would you think that
>>37291439
Because 2D is not real
>>37289348
The problem is, you guys need to stop acting like you know. A lot of you are shit at diagnosing and i did mention here and was told to do more classics, so just say you dont know. It's as simple as that. Pas blog is shit to me and full of memes. Yasha is ok.
>>37291460
Glad doing more pulls than full lifts worked for you. Wouldn't for everyone, what I said isn't wrong.
I always use to think that a clean pull/deadlift was different to a conventional deadlift in that the clean pull involved:
first pull: from the floor to the middle of knee, initiate via knee extension and back angle stays constant throughout the first pull.
second pull: knee to upper thigh, hip extension occurs i.e. back angle changes until it's perpendicular to the ground.
Though the problem with this definition of the clean pull is that this explanation can be used to explain a conventional deadlift as while there are people who conventional deadlift by initiating hip extension from the floor (e.g. Candito) and who obviously won't fit my naïve clean pull definition, there are other conventional deadliftters who do use a lot of leg drive from the floor by basically utilizing my naïve definition of a clean pull (e.g. Eric Lilliebridge, Eddie Hall). So I was always confused when anons called durkz's 197kg clean pull a deadlift + shrug as in the video, he fit my naïve definition for a clean pull.
Though my naïve definition is correct to an extent (I hope), there is more to a clean pull that helps differentiate it from a conventional deadlift as the clean pull will have:
- shoulders more forward over the bar than conventional deadlifts and also shoulders stay over and forward (relative to the bar) until thigh/hip contact or for the majority of the lift (pic related) while conventional will stay over (but not forward) at latest til the top of the knees than it starts going back
- clean pulls move in an S shaped bar bath while conventional will have a straight bar path (pic related)
tl;dr what differentiates a clean pull from people who conventional deadlift with leg drive is that cleans pulls have shoulder more forward and over the bar for a longer time and that clean pulls have a S shaped bar path compared to a straight bar path of a conventional deadlift.
Though what do I know, I not a certified tripfag or namefag so I'm probably 90% wrong.
>>37291595
All you need to say is clean pull mimics clean
Deadlift does.not, despite what trappy may think
>>37291595
>first pull: from the floor to the middle of knee, initiate via knee extension and back angle stays constant throughout the first pull.
This is literally Rippetoe describing the deadlift in SS.
>>37291595
>S shaped bar
rip says this is inefficient and you should strive for a vertical bar path
also some russians say the same thing, but who cares about them.
>>37291403
>Coaches wouldn't allow the hips to shoot up
Have you ever worked under a Russian coach?
Because Berestov has.
>>37291429
Same with Berestov's Clean Deadlift.
Again,
>This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
>>37291595
>first pull: from the floor to the middle of knee, initiate via knee extension and back angle stays constant throughout the first pull.
>second pull: knee to upper thigh, hip extension occurs i.e. back angle changes until it's perpendicular to the ground.
Literally a conventional deadlift.
Candito's back angle only really changes at the start when pulling sumo (and even then it's not much). Watch his conventional DL.
>shoulders more forward over the bar than conventional deadlifts
It's kinda the opposite. Deadlifts will have you shoulders more in front of the bar. Some people's Cleans will have their shoulders more in line with the bar as they prefer starting with the hips lower (that's why it does the S at the start).
>and also shoulders stay over and forward (relative to the bar) until thigh/hip contact or for the majority of the lift
>clean pulls move in an S shaped bar bath
Clean Pull and Clean =/= Clean Deadlift
>/owg/
>>37291758
>Deadlift does.not, despite what trappy may think
Where the hell have I said a deadlift mimics a clean?
>All you need to say is clean pull mimics clean
No one is talking about Clean Pulls. We're talking about Clean Deadlift and Deadlift.
>>37291976
>clean pull = deadlift
stfu ur fucking dumb theyre similar but not the same
also dynamic start isnt the same as shooting hips cmon
>>37292051
No one is talking about Clean Pulls.
Read the posts from the start.
>>37291976
Are you stupid? Beretsov is a retired athlete doing stuff for cameras, this is not how they're training developing athletes
To answer your question though, yes I have, and my current coach (national team coach too) trained under Soviet coaches in the 70s
You see something in a video from a seminar (showing off basically) and you extrapolate from that the Soviet system? You don't know what you're talking about and have no experience of it yourself. Please just stop.
>when you realize this meme sport has turned you inte an actual t-rex
hold me lads
>>37292115
>that pic
>trex
>>37292106
>To answer your question though, yes I have, and my current coach (national team coach too) trained under Soviet coaches in the 70s
Post proof.
>>37292086
Clean deadlift is not the same as conventional deadlift
You're wrong if you think otherwise
>>37292086
Ur dumb
>>37292137
This^
>>37292137
Read again from the start >>37290897
It has been explained in detail.
Or if you don't wanna read, make your points, tell me what are the differences and I'll rewrite what I've written before specially for you to understand.
>>37292106
>Beretsov is a retired athlete doing stuff for cameras
So? He's doing a Clean Deadlift.
>this is not how they're training developing athletes
See my post >>37291012
>and more focus on form than weight.
The rest of your post is fallacy after fallacy, so I'll skip it.
>>37292106
This >>37291133 is in the training hall, not a seminar
>>37292190
You don't even lift
You've never worked under a coach
My coaches have been working professionally in weightlifting longer than you've been alive, have had numerous national and international competitors, I think I'll trust their first hand knowledge and experience of training in the USSR over you
I don't need to explain the differences, they're not the same, and you're wrong.
You did this same shit with snatch deadlifts about a month ago. Go back to routine general where your advice is decent, you don't know shit about Olympic weightlifting.
Filtering now anyway, you've ruined these threads.
>>37292125
m-maybe a humble velociraptor then
>>37292217
He was retired
It's for YouTube. This isn't for training. Hence why you don't see current national team lifters doing such massive pulls
If you want to do normal deads or let your ass shoot up on sub max loads cool, see how trappy's methods work for you. Maybe consider doing low bar too lmao
>>37292256
Here's your (you)
>>37292190
You're basically just trying to make people think you're right by drowning them in walls of text now. This guy basically explained the difference between clean deadlift and conventional.
>inb4 muh terminology
>>37291758
>All you need to say is clean pull mimics clean
>
>Deadlift does.not
So can anyone recommend a beginner routine?
I hear you guys shit on catalyst all of the time so I'm not sure what to do.
My pulls are very weak so I think it might help to focus on those. I also have trouble getting under a snatch and not power snatching it.
>>37292287
You know trappy is wrong when she resorts to this ;^)
>>37292296
>You're basically just trying to make people think you're right by drowning them in walls of text now
Wtf?
>This guy basically explained the difference between clean deadlift and conventional
He didn't.
He only said "ass doesn't shoot up you don't use as much weight"
Which is something I've addressed a long time ago >>37290930 >>37291012
>This is dependant on the load. If the load is heavy, your hips will always raise high before the bar leaves the ground.
>and more focus on form than weight.
>>37292320
Here's your (you)
If you want an actual response, try making a real argument instead of resorting to fallacies.
>>37292346
ur a bit silly now, love
if the load is too great, you can't even perform an actual clean deadlift
>>37292346
Why would you allow your ass to shoot up if you don't want that in the clean and it should be the same?
It's like doing a power snatch and catching below parallel. It's a snatch, not a power snatch. A clean deadlift that stops resembling a clean is no longer a clean deadlift.
This isn't hard to understand, stop being so stubborn dammit, just Google for the differences, you're literally the only one arguing from that side.
>>37292106
Are you training under Zygmunt?
>>37292383
How about we go back to the start, love? Since you refuse to read the stuff that has been addressed before.
Point the differences between a Clean Deadlift and a Deadlift so I can point how this is not entirely accurate.
>>37292403
Because a Clean Deadlift is working to build strength and muscle mass.
For technique you do Clean Pulls.
>>37292428
been skimming the thread now
I propose that the difference is that you will try to mimick the clean as far as possible, with a moderately heavy weight that will allow you to keep your positions through the pull
If you agree, we have no argument
What do I do if I don't have ratios yet? 120kg BS
My best snatch is 40kg and clean is 60kg.
Do I just keep doing it very light until technique is perfect or try heavier weights/both?
>>37292476
T R A I N S T U P I D
R
A
I
N
S
T
U
P
I
D
>>37292428
No it isn't
They are programmed in Soviet system to increase strength in correct position, just like snatch deadlift or a partial pull from blocks. No good if you come out of those positions.
In any case, you should be able to do a clean deadlift heavy enough to illicit a response in strength and mass while still performing it correctly.
>>37292486
What is this meme?
Am I expected to just do technique until I can suddenly hit the ratios out of nowhere?
>>37292428
Trappy
You can train strength and muscle mass with clean pulls too
>>37292548
Don't bother mate, she's a lost cause. I'm surprised you still let her in wechat desu
>>37292562
>tfw no trappy to frustrate you with her posts until you ravage her butt, which was her plan all along
>>37292548
I know that lifting weights will make you stronger and build muscle mass senpai
>>37292457
That's what I've said from the start.
>>37292493
While I agree with the rest, this
>No good if you come out of those positions
Is not accurate.
Strength training is still strength training and doesn't need to be specific.
See: Back Squat.
But then again, there are too many different methodologies of training for weightlifting, and they vary from the degree of specificity. Russians focus a lot more on strength (though they do periodize this) than Bulgarians, for example.
>>37292627
i would really love to see one of your lifts, lets see how all of this "knowledge" translates into real life...
>>37292627
>That's what I've said from the start.
then why do you keep stirring up shit, you stupid sexy faggot
>Strength training is still strength training and doesn't need to be specific.
but we want to be strong in the right positions, hence why we make the distinction of a _clean_ deadlift
>>37292627
back squat is specific
youre in the same pos as ohs, similar to front squat pos. oly lifting is all about positional strength, at least past the noob phase.
>>37292651
>b-but my test levels
Come now, let's all be friends here
>>37292661
>then why do you keep stirring up shit, you stupid sexy faggot
I didn't. I told you to read the stuff that had already been said, but you kept insulting and ignoring.
>>37292681
>back squat is specific
>youre in the same pos as ohs
Oh god, here we go...
>>37292681
Different anon.
What if my OHS is practically vertical but my backsquat isn't with any weight?
>>37292725
OHS is not a back squat. That's Everett being a memer.
>>37292627
See now ur making more sense, and I think maybe it's a case of semantics again
However I disagree slightly about coming out of those positions being OK. Maybe last few reps, perhaps. But even during the hypertrophy period Russians will still perform lifts the main bulk at 80-85% this should not effect technique much
Maybe if you were progress linearly in a Western style programs I'd see it more but in terms of Russian or Soviet it would still be done strict
>>37292681
>>37292709
>>37292725
sorry, it's not the same.
but it still has similar positions to other squats and it is positional strength. there is a reason why oly lifters back squat instead of e.g. leg press or hex bar squat. its more specific, also less taxing.
>legs dead from squats and pulls
>have to pound fuckbuddy tonight
Pray for me
Posting this again.
Pls respond, doesn't mention any beginner routines. I have 115kg squat, 73kg BW.
So can anyone recommend a beginner routine?
I hear you guys shit on catalyst all of the time so I'm not sure what to do?
My pulls/dls are very weak so I think it might help to focus on those. I also have trouble getting under a snatch and not power snatching it.
>>37292820
It's in the OP
>>37292820
get a coach
W-what about lifters who clean with their hips high?
Seems pretty common judging from the olympics...
>>37292828
>>37292850
None near me. I have a """"coach""""" who checks my tech from time to time but no programming.
So out of the everett or takano, I should go with takano since everett seems to be shit on a lot here?
>>37292820
catalyst have a beginner routine
http://www.catalystathletics.com/article/131/Starter-Program-for-Catalyst-Athletics-Online-Workouts/
it's probably not too bad
takano class III program in OP is probably alright too
desu v simple programming is plenty; 2 strength days a week doing 5x5 squats and 3 tech days doing 30min work on one of the lifts followed by pulls is complex enough
snatch only up to weights where you can consciously fix the issues you have
do more heavy pulls (2+ days a week, 5+ sets of 3+ reps) to get stronger at pulls
>>37292881
ye the catalyst program looks decent, id favour that one over takano because its just a lot simpler
>>37292867
Everett = Catalyst
>>37292820
ABxABxx
Snatch + Pull A
Clean and Jerk + Squat B
Alternate front/back squat snatch/clean pull
6 sets of 3 for squats and pulls
Use moderate weights on classics
For pulls/squats prog overload 2 weeks, maintain/deload 1 week
Do technique with bar on x days
I just shat this out right here and now with minimal thought but I'm sure it'll work for your purposes, until you learn proper tech
>>37292854
all trannies
>>37292921
na do 5x5 squats and 6x4 pulls for better gains, 6x3 gives all strength no muscle
dont do 7+ reps tho that only builds non-functional mass
>>37292854
Some people prefer that
>>37292881
>>37292909
>>37292914
>>37292921
But is more complicated better or not really? Like will doing PP BTN, hang snatches etc, jerk from racks help much right now or not?
>>37292946
Serious or memeing?
How long does it take for proper tech? Do I just keep trying to correct the issues with a weight I can control?
My main issues right now are not getting under/pulling under snatch.
Slow/weak pulls for snatch and clean.
I should also mention, if I am doing nothing at all for the next 3 or 4 months. Would you still do the same routine or what would you since I can train every day if needed?
>>37293032
Super serious
That's why you don't do heavy stuff at 8 reps, you might fail and end up at 6 or 7 which gives no gains.
>>37293057
>>37293135
kek. What about the other question?
>I should also mention, if I am doing nothing at all for the next 3 or 4 months. Would you still do the same routine or what would you since I can train every day if needed?
>>37292627
Russians focus on technical mastery more than bulg and bulg focus more on strength
>>37292736
Soviets and Koreans disagree
>>37293208
Almost half of the russian training is strength training.
>>37293032
No, beginners should have it as simple as possible
No variations etc
>>37293215
'No'
>>37293217
Something like that
>>37291393
yea I read your post and see the video. even if hips start to rise early on a clean DL, it is different than conventional dl. Look at the difference between berestov and those PL guys when the bar passes his knee. they are soft and don't fully extend even after he completes his rep. his balance point is different too.
it's a different exercise with different form and different focus on different muscles for a different purpose. why do you try to argue about that?
>>37293168
I'd suggest 5 (FIVE) days a week if ur willing to go xtra mega hardcore
TSTxTSx
T = sn or cj + pull
S = sq (+ press or bench or whatever, get swol)
sq 5x5, sn/cj 6x3 (u can do 6x2 cj i guess cos they're p tiring), pull 6x4
always weights where you can correct your issues, repetition will eventually mean the stuff you're consciously correcting now becomes muscle memory. i have no idea til you'll have good tech, probs never. but hopefully you'll get better tech most times you go to the gym
reducing load/volume for 1 week after 2 weeks of training is generally a good idea
bodybuilding and abs/lower back every session, pullups and leg raises good for u too
on x days do general stuff like sprints, cardio, stretching, swimming, shitposting, climbing whatever
more isnt necessarily better
>>37293405
not the anon you are responding to but i would like to ask , 5x5 squats ramping or straight ?
>>37293434
straight, what are you some kind of faggot?
>>37293215
Source?
Every Russian I've seen says the same thing, back squats for lowerbody strength, front squats for technique/positioning/upperback strength.
Which makes a lot of sense to me.
The moment arm for the thoracic spinal erectors during a back squat is MUCH lower than during a front squat. Back squats are most often failed because of lack of lowerbody strength. Front squats are most often failed from lack of back strength. (of course this varies from person to person, but you get the point)
As for the overhead squat, by far the most limiting part of it is your upperback (thoracic spinal erectors and traps), shoulders, and triceps - NOT your legs. Besides balance, of course.
So while the back squat looks "similar" to an overhead squat (it's still not as the bar positioning changes during an OHS), it's not specific.
A front squat is.
Back squats won't make your positioning during an OHS stronger. Front squats will.
But then again, there are many other benefits about the Back Squat. But it is what it is, unspecific strength training.
Unspecific strength training isn't a bad thing, though. Besides technique, muscle strength/explosiveness/size is still a big part of weightlifting.
And you don't have to be 100% specific when it comes to developing strength and size, as those things are not specific adaptations.
Just my two cents on the issue.
>>37293405
Ty Pas.
>At which point do you get good tech though? Can I get to 2pl8/2.5pl8 clean without having ""good tech""?
>Just some LISS treadmill or something for cardio?
>Alternating BS/FS and classics with respective pulls too I assume?
>How would you program push pressing 2x week?
Also I get that more isn't better, I just wanted to make the most of my time. Thx for the routine. BB every session wont be too much?
>>37293516
There is no point indicating good tech besides actually having good tech
Just practice with bar until you have something viable to work with then stick to light weights while correcting problems
>>37293405
Why u need lower back isolation everyday, if you do lots of pulling already
>>37293550
Yeah I do have something to work with. I can manage and control 35kg snatch right. I am just not getting under it for whatever reason but I do it fine with bar.
>>37293551
Not necessarily every day, but high rep work is good for injury prevention and is not necessarily fatigueing if you're used to the volume
>>37293516
>At which point do you get good tech though? Can I get to 2pl8/2.5pl8 clean without having ""good tech""?
https://www.instagram.com/girthbrooks6
>Just some LISS treadmill or something for cardio?
ye thatd be ok, being healthy is good for u i think
sprints are good too
>Alternating BS/FS and classics with respective pulls too I assume?
ye
u could try doing something different with the squats but alternating is fine
>How would you program push pressing 2x week?
idk maybe 5x5 or 6x3 or something, maybe one of the sessions lighter or something
keep it simple
>>37293551
injury prevention stuff, i dont do it everyday normally like twice a week or so
>>37293460
>as those things are not specific adaptations
I wanna elaborate on this before someone loses their mind.
Growth is the most unspecific adaptation.
Strength does have a certain degree of specificity to it, because of CNS adaptation.
For example:
If you take someone who's a very very strong at doing barbell rows, but has never done a pullup, he might not be as strong as he could be on the pullup the first time he tries it.
But that doesn't mean he's gonna be weak on the pullup either. Even though he might not be used to the motor patterns of the pullup, he still has gained a lot of strength/size/explosiveness from doing rows.
After he gets used to pullups, through motor pattern adaptation and technique improvement, he will reach his max potential on that lift - even though he got most of his strength with rowing.
>>37293564
That means you're not used to the movement aka you don't have something you can work with
Most people have way worse tech than they'd like to believe
Just never be satisfied and you'll be fine
>>37293564
can u get under 30kg?
if ye, then do that lots
if n, try 25
if ye, then do that lots
if n, try 20
if ye, then do that lots
if n try it with a stick lol :^)
eventually ull get less shit
>>37293583
ye the secret is to hate yourself
>>37293447
n-no homo..im just asking if squatting 5x5 with the same weight is better for increasing the squat senpai
>>37293595
idk but it works
i think sets across are good for u provided you do them at a sensible weight (ie no 20min rests)
>>37293583
Oh ok.
>>37293572
thx
>>37293592
yeah I can get under 30kg comfy, I will just keep doing it then?
Something is definitely fucked if I can do something like a muscle snatch/power that is 40kg from hang.
>>37293572
LMAO that fucking gyno, he's out of control
>>37293583
is this why you always tell me I'm ugly
>>37293564
with love m8, if you are not 'getting under it' then you're not doing fine
>>37293630
>Something is definitely fucked if I can do something like a muscle snatch/power that is 40kg from hang.
ye it means ur tech sucks
just dont go to weights where ur not fully in control of what ur doing and u should gradually get less shit
>>37293633
No you're just actually really ugly
The only one of my athletes with half decent tech is Juan and that's just from his years of coordination desu
>>37293583
delug
i just noticed ur volume strength building 12 weeks had no power pulls / panda pulls whatver
y
do u not want hwan to get powerful?
>>37293633
>>37293630
I'll see if I can get a vid tomorrow or something.
>>37293657
kek yeah, I think the strength is there but not the tech. I will stick to 30kg then and try to pull under.
My coach thinks my tech is ok with 25kg, I might just keep doing that then.
>>37293677
I forgot lol
But it's fine most of his power will come from volume classics/development phase
Those 12 weeks were focusing on raw strength and classics consistency
>>37293705
lol chinese sicrits
now gimme ur next 12 weeks of memes
>>37293669
I knew it, is that why the faggot never posts face? He's a gargoyle isn't he
>>37293732
Sorry pal you're gonna need a Premium Subscription (TM)
Also
The extra power volume will take away from PM pulls so I didn't write them as much
I was kinda paranoid that the volume was too heavy so I laid off them for a while
>>37293738
No cal is actually really handsome
No homo
>>37293738
This is caladan
>>37293797
that's Prutus you mong, altho prutus is literally a 3/10 lol
sorry prutus
>>37292820
All the other routines you have been given are shit. Son, if you really want to get good, listen to me.
Clean&Jerk / Snatch (alternating) to max
Front squat to max
Everyday, for the rest of your fucking miserable life
Add a pot of rice to your regular diet. Everyday. For the rest of your life.
Thank me later kiddo
>>37293845
a whole pot? madman
>>37293829
I'm literally chad you fucking mong. Just wait till I cut and steal your bitch
>>37293845
go away commisar
>>37293797
'no'
>>37293797
I can confirm that's caladan but that's him on a bad day
>>37293864
you're trying to get me to post face aren't you
well I won't
besides brown hair prutus and I look nothing alike
>>37293864
Woah sick name dude
>>37293797
>>37293850
Y u no wana git gud?
Twinks can't handle a real routine
>>37293845
donny?
>>37293898
Who is he and can i eat him too
>>37293918
Donny Sheckels, he's an ex-meme
>>37293946
what happens to memes when they become ex-memes?
>>37293963
they do online coaching
some current memes do online coaching too, like Mr. Girth
I got hurt training in ireland lads :^(
Heading home soon
Probs gonna be stuck with bar for another hear baka
>>37286150
I'm not an oly lifter, but I have a question:
If the deadlift position is the most optimal one to pull something from the floor, then why the clean/snatch starting positions are different?
>>37293987
How did you get injured?
>>37293987
>ireland
>>37294021
Because pull off floor is the least of your worries
Explosive pull is more important, and snatch stance positions you optimally for that
>>37287063
illegal
>>37294028
Attempted max cj cus second to last day but heard a loud pop in my right knee while catching clean :^(
>>37294021
noone really fails cleans by failing to pull it off the floor
>>37294063
THE IRISH CURSE OF EXPLODING KNEES
i told u it was a bad idea baka desu senpai
>>37293881
>>37294179
>not a jew
