How do I cure leaning forward/hips rising too fast on squat? As soon as I get up near 80kg it gets bad. I don't think it's a weak lower back, since I can deadlift 130kgx5 and have been deadlifting for a shorter time.
Shitty mobility
shoulders back chest up OP
>>37049334
Chest up
Keep the weight on your heels
Losing neutral spine by looking up or down, look straight ahead and slightly down so your spine is straight
>>37049720
this, idk why people parrot the rippetoe squats when his "look down" advice is exactly what made me unable to keep my back neutral. Ugh
Back off the weight until you can do it with good form, or do front squats for a while
Keep the weight over the middle of your foot, and focus on maintaining your back angle coming out of the bottom.
>>37049736
A neutral cervical spine caused your thoracic or lumbar spine to go into flexion?
Sounds like you just don't have very good awareness of what position your spine is in.
It's especially NOT weak back.
Your back is too strong compared to your quads.
Your body looks for the path of least resistance and shifts the load to your back because your quads can't handle it.
Do some front squats or other quad dominant exercises.
>>37049334
Have your feet pointing out more and try a wider stance.
>>37049334
its a strong lower back, kinda. if the hips go up too fast, the lower back gets way more engaged, so your body does this to decrease leg load and increase back load, so your quads, glutes or hamstrings are too weak. i assume hamstrings, cuz ur leaning forward
>>37049334
Queue tightening your upper back. Press the bar into your shoulders with your hands, have your hands out far enough that you can pull your lats tight, but now out so far you lose your shelf.
Narrow your grip, thumbs over bar for a strong wrist, neutral spine (don't move your stupid head at any point in the rep), pull the bar into your back, and brace your core
the chris duffin squat video helped me get over a bad case of this. i, too, have a super strong lower back and was good morninging up to about 3 plate. what you need to do is make sure your core is tight and packed all the way from your pelvic floor through your lats.
watch that video
once you learn his cues, lighten the weights significantly, like start over at 95 pounds if you have to. treat every lift like your 1rm and you'll get your abs up to speed.
>>37049351
retard
>>37049720
retard
>>37050686
retard
>>37050709
retard
>>37050740
retard
>>37050740
I have problems breathing into my stomach and bracing when squatting.
ez pz before diddly or whatever but once I have the weight on my shoulders...
>>37050770
What's your advice then?
>>37049334
WHY DIDN'T ANY OF YOU FAGS SAY WEAK HAMSTRINGS?
STRETCH YOUR FUCKING HAMSTRINGS BEFORE AND AFTER EACH SET.
THAT'S WHY YOU LEAN FORWARD.
WHY ARE YOU DYELS GIVING ADVICE?
YOU FUCKING RETARDS
Wow, this is an incredibly useful thread and directly relevant to OP's question.
What the hell is happening to /fit/?!
>>37050770
retard
>>37050794
There's multiple possible causes of leaning forward and squat-morning'ing, unfortunately.
>>37050774
When you get that deep breath in, put your tongue on the roof of your mouth. It will help keep it in better.
>>37050848
but I can't even seem to breath in properly
>>37050857
watch the fucking chris duffin vid, it's mostly about how to breathe
>>37050857
Watch how to squat by layne norton
It's on bodybuilding.com youtube channel
>>37050865
>>37050866
>>37050857
Then something isn't right. Are you hitting full depth? Or are you overloading yourself and cutting it high? Do you wear a belt?
>>37050865
The Chris duffin video is good. Alan Thrall has some good videos too.
>>37050876
front squats help too- they're heavy on the abs, even if you don't brace right
>>37050899
This. Great for upper back, quads, and core.
>>37050785
its pretty common knowledge nowadays that if your ass rises too fast in deadlifts then your starting position is too upright.
you should apply the same thinking to squats depending on your proportions. some people try to squat as upright as they can for no reason when they would lift way more weight with a more horizontal back. so, they problem might be that youre trying to squat with a too upright a position. get your back more horizontal during the ascent so the back angle doesnt change when you go up.
but if you feel like your back position is correct when going down, do front squats. you lean forward because it allows you to extend your knees without lifting the bar as much so the quads dont have as much to do and your hamstrings can contribute more with your knees more extended
>>37050794
if you lean forward your hamstrings get elongated. whats the point in that if your hamstrings are too short?
>>37050916
this is really weird advice. bully if it works for you, but thinking about your back angle, especially thinking about it like the bottom of a deadlift, seems like a quick way to a back injury for me.
Everyone is posting overly complicated/differing points.
Your best bet is to focus on your heels and making sure that the weight stays there, whenever you feel your going foward too much think and focus on your heels and your body will begin to self-adjust, take some weight off and try it.
>>37051088
>Everyone is posting overly complicated/differing points.
that's because everyone who actually learns how to squat has to learn how to do it correctly for their anthropometry. you can follow certain principles that nobody can argue, like
>stay tight
>track your knees over your toes
>go below parallel
but beyond that, including foot angle, foot width, grip, back angle, and especially cues, it's going to be a process of trial and error unless you're getting coached.
the strongest guys tell you the simplest advice. the Ed Coan video on how to squat is spectacular for this reason.
>>37051056
> seems like a quick way to a back injury for me.
having a more horizontal back angle does in no way put you at a higher risk of injury unless you round your back
>>37051136
>having a more horizontal back angle does in no way put you at a higher risk of injury unless you round your back
it's called shearing you fucking weirdo
>>37051161
....and?
>>37051239
you do realize the trunk musculature supporting the spine takes the shear load?
>>37051253
trust me, you're wasting your time arguing with people like that on 4chan
>>37051253
>you do realize the trunk musculature supporting the spine takes the shear load?
hey dumbshit, I'm the one arguing tightening your core. my point is that thinking about your back angle in the bottom of a squat is a useless and elaborate cue. you should just be thinking about maintaining the tightness that you initiated at the top of the lift and getting the bar up. if you do that correctly it takes care of everything else.
From a PT : cut the weight down by 10 lbs. Going into the squat, focus on pushing back with your hips and starting to "sit." Brace your abs and keep a big chest, making sure the navel is pointing out, look up at a spot directly above you. Now, lower yourself to 90° or lower. Pause. While looking at the ceiling, drive up through your heels. Squeeze glutes at the top of the upward drive. There. Problem solved.
>>37051127
aside from doing assitance/supplementary work on my core, hamstrings, glutes, and hips, the single best cue i've made use of was pushing through my heels. if i stop and make an effort to do so it allows my legs to start the up movement and doesn't rely on my back. my mind is focused on the right place and everything else follows
>>37051319
Don't listen to this worthless faggot
>>37051289
tightening your core has nothing to do with your back angle as the trunk musculature only affects your spinal extension/flexion, not your hip extension/flexion
>>37049334
Have a seat
>>37051319
>lower yourself to 90 degrees
>look directly up at the ceiling
>pause
>>37051360
>>37051396
Calls my advice ignorant and attacks my character. Doesn't provide counter point. Lol. I forgot this place is full of middle school children
>>37051462
Let's put our necks in extreme hyperextension, I'm sure the intervertebral discs will love being jammed into that position repeatedly! Lets have our focus point be the furthest thing away from us! Lets go to some arbitrary depth of 90 degrees when everybody has accepted below parallel is considered a complete range of motion and has more benefits! Lets do pause our main squat reps despite the fact we're not doing paused squats! Lets drive through the heels despite the centre of balance being over the middle of the foot and not the heel! Lets make sure our navel is pointing out because that's a cue that gets used a lot and is very useful!
The best part is that you prefaced your shitty advice with 'im a PT :)))))))'
>brace your core better; Chris Duffin's advice is GOAT.
>perform glute activation drills before squatting.
>>37050056
Physical therapist here, this guy gets it
>>37051577
>>37050056
Yet the OP never said his back was rounding, only that he was leaning over more i.e. more hip flexion. If the back doesn't flex/extend then it's not moving any of the load. Stop confusing the back and the hips.
He's leaning over more so that he can open the knee angle and close the hip angle so that the hip extensors can contribute more.
Either you're right and the knee extensors and hip extensors are way out of proportion, the OP is trying to do squat way too upright or there's some cue the OP is missing. In any case, it's not back strength, especially if it's at 80kg at which point everything he has is weak and it's probably just shit technique and lack of coaching.
>>37051319
This is why you never listen to PTs
>>37051319
>from a PT
Stopped right there
>>37051706
>If the back doesn't flex/extend then it's not moving any of the load.
it's called "isometric contraction", and a more horizontal back angle means that the back is supporting more of the weight even if it's not extending
>>37052526
And isometric means that a muscle is neither lengthening nor shortening and therefor producing no joint action.
Just because the erectors are having to work harder to maintain extension with a more horizontal back angle, doesn't mean they're contributing to moving the weight, which is produced by greater moment on the hip extensors.
>>37052583
>Just because the erectors are having to work harder to maintain extension with a more horizontal back angle, doesn't mean they're contributing to moving the weight
they're holding the load in order to get the rest of the body into a more advantageous position. that's absolutely "contributing to moving the weight"
>>37052639
By contributing to moving the weight I mean is the back actually making the bar go up, which it is absolutely not doing unless flexion occurs.
This thing stemmed from people saying your back is too strong or your back is stronger than your quads. Really what's happening is that the load is shifting to the hips. Even with an incredibly weak back this shift would still happen to get the load on to the stronger hip extensors, only then it would be accompanied by spinal flexion.
>>37052691
that's fine, but the back must be strong if he's then able to "good morning" the weight up. if the back were weak, he would just crumple.
MY point is that a better cue than worrying about keeping a more horizontal back angle is tightening the entire core. Doing that at a lighter weight and then experimenting with foot placement would mean that he could eventually find an easier movement that doesn't put his back at risk.
in effect, it's the same thing you're saying, I just don't think it's possible to "think" about your back angle in a squat like you can in a deadlift. widening the stance and lowering the bar on your back would have the same effect, although without thinking about bracing the core properly it's still very possible to let the hips shoot up to "find" the right back angle and then continue to have the same issue
simpler the better
>>37050886
I highbar squat though, not lowbar
>>37052888
>that's fine, but the back must be strong if he's then able to "good morning" the weight up. if the back were weak, he would just crumple.
Not necessarily true, there are videos of people shooting the hips up and back with a shitload of spinal flexion and still completing reps. Even more common in the deadlift where people pull heavy weights with disgusting amounts of flexion. Weak backs, not utilizing all the quad they can off the floor, all hips baby. Until the inevitable hitch that is.
I pretty much agree with most of what you just said past that. Was more addressing people saying leaning over means that they're lifting with their backs, when what they really mean is lifting with their hips. Hips and knees move weight, backs don't (assuming form isn't terrible). Although I think we both know that and are arguing past each other at this point.
>>37052952
The queues apply to high bar or low bar really, except your shelf for high bar is your traps.
>>37053004
>Not necessarily true, there are videos of people shooting the hips up and back with a shitload of spinal flexion and still completing reps. Even more common in the deadlift where people pull heavy weights with disgusting amounts of flexion
fair enough
>>37053004
>Although I think we both know that and are arguing past each other at this point.
I still think we disagree about cueing, but oh well. Apparently opie is doing highbar, which makes the whole previous argument we just had all the more terrifying for his spine
>>37051319
>look up at the ceiling
>stop
Goodbye spine, goodbye knees.
>>37051520
SAVAGE
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