How do you deadlift 3.5 pl8, can't squat for shit and have more developed quads than hamstrings? Sounds to me like you squat the weight up or pull with a cat back. Also what the fuck have you been doing that it's taken you 4 years to go a little beyond a 2pl8 bench.

How the fuck is your squat weak and deadlift strong while at the same time your quads are strong but hamstrings are weak? You realize that makes no sense right?

>>36798602
I hate the thought of working legs but once in in the gym moving multiple times my bodyweight there is nothing better.
I dont know if it's broscience but ive heard working legs releases growth hormone.

>>36798662
>Also what the fuck have you been doing that it's taken you 4 years to go a little beyond a 2pl8 bench
It only took me year. The issue is that Im a runner so its hard as shit for me to keep up this strength. And no. I dont have a cat back. Id rather not deadlift than bend my back because thats snap city and I have no intention of ever going there. Hence why I said I could probably do more because I dont really go far beyond what is comfortable. I need my back.
>>36798669
You have to understand how exactly weak hamstrings would effect a squat. I dont have a problem pushing up. Its just that my knees shake and I have a very hard time stabilizing them with anything over 185lb so I try not to go over that.
On way I know its my quads is that I did a fairly long leg day session and my quads feel fine like I didnt use them but my hamstrings and butt hurt like hell.

>>36798909

We're saying it doesn't make sense that you have weak hamstrings considering they're supposed to be, along with the glutes the primary mover during deadlifts.

>>36798909
If you have a 365 dl then there's no way you're hamstrings are weak unless you are lifting only with your back and talking you're hamstrings completely out of it

>>36798933
>>36798926
No Ive been told my deadlift form is too close to a squat form. Which makes sense as my body is probably trying not to put weight on my hamstrings. But its not my back. Its the one thing Im certain of thats not wrong in my form.

>>36798952
There's no way you are pulling that much weight in the form of a squat. You can still take your hamstrings out of it without a cat back by just not bending your knees and doing a stiff leg dl.if you're not doing that then you are pulling the weight to your knees then hitching it up with your quads, either way, bad form

>>36798952
That would be expected if your legs are quad-dominant.

Former runner here; had all sorts of hamstring problems in the past (multiple pulls, ligament issues, etc). Hamstrings are still pretty tight on me today.

I've only been lifting now for about 5 months, and the squat form has been tricky for me to master. Had some back pain, probably due to lower back rounding at the bottom, probably due to tight hamstrings. Doing better now though.

Squat is very trainable once you get the motion right. Don't worry about increasing weight right away - find a stance and get comfortable with the motion and then just go up in 5 lb increments or something modest. 3pl8 squat is very attainable - I'm nearly there and I haven't even reached 2pl8 bench yet. You can do this with some care and time.

For good squat form look for rippetoe or starting strength on youtube, or just hire a PT

>>36799014
I never said my form was perfect. And its actually my form which is why I dont have a 4pl8 dl according to the guy watching over the gym at the time. Its a uni gym though so I dont really trust the coaches that much. But its not my back and I definitely go into a deep squat form before I start.

>>36799053

You might go into a deep squat before you start, but what position are you in when the bar leaves the ground?

hamstrings are not active in squats

>>36799091
Honestly its probably just the fact that squatting is so new to the muscles. Primary reason of noob gains because the stabilizer muscles stop holding you back.

>>36799104
>Primary reason of noob gains because the stabilizer muscles stop holding you back

????

primary reason of noob gains is due to more recruitment of more motor units and change in the types of muscle fibres

stabiliser muscles don't hold you back, ever, they make you stronger

did i just get baited? i fucking hope so

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>>36799076
Am I not supposed to be in the same position? I refuse to strain my back in any kind of way. Its not an injury Im willing to risk.
Actually looking for images to show you I think I found some post agreeing with what Im saying. When I first started deadlifting I used the trap bar because I was afraid of my back. I dont use this anymore unless Im trying to get a girl to deadlift but my point is that I try to mimic the form I had with the trap bar. Which was basically squatting.
I should probably do stiff leg deadlifts to correct my form.

>>36799136
Are you saying when you started lifting the massive amount of vibrations in the bar didnt hold you back. Because they held me back.

>>36799156
>vibrations in the bar
>they held me back

SURELY i'm getting baited

if not can u explain wtf you are on about??

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>>36799091
>hamstrings are not active in squats
nice broscience

>>36799190
2 joint muscles cannot be active as anything more than a joint stabiliser while one joint is causing the muscle to lengthen, my dude

>>36799143

Its not so much what you're supposed to be in as the fact that most people, when they start out squatting low in the deadlift, don't tend to actually get the bar off the ground until their hips have come up a fair bit.

Its the difference between the two that tends to be the issue, not whether you start high or low.

>>36799300
That would defeat the purpose of starting in that position. Im not sure if youre imagining what it looks like when you deadlift with your quads mainly, but I stand up. Thats how I think about it. The actual form of deadlifting is unintuitive to me even though its supposed to be easier and what you are describing is just plain weird.

>>36799190
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Citation/2000/10000/The_Role_of_the_Back_Squat_as_a_Hamstring_Training.4.aspx

blah blah blah hamstrings are active purely for the benefits of providing a posterior force on the tibia to stabilise the joint throughout the movement. the hamstrings (with the exception of the short biceps femoris) all are 2 joint muscles, that extend the hips and flex the knees. they are not load-bearing whatsoever in the squat, the only work they do is to stabilise the knee joint.

or, continue on with dat dere broscience, my dude

of course you could go down to your local physiotherapist and ask them. i'd probably avoid asking the pt who's done a 4 week course and is now paying $400 a week in rent to conduct his business at your gym though, he doesn't really know what he's talking about when it comes to anatomy or movement analysis.

but yeh broscience man keep spitting that when u dont understand my guy

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>>36799276
>>36799766
>Stabilizing = not active

>>36799766
OP
>my hamstrings are weak
>my knees shake at any load
You
>hamstrings arent used
>hamstrings stabilize the knees
>hamstrings arent your problem
lol my guy you are one kind of stupid my dude

>>36799803
Forgive me for the semantics. Keep doing squats for hamstrings, it will work, I promise u!!

>>36800216
When did I say that to op? I just said it because the amount of retards in this thread that think that squats = hamstrings is thru the roof

>>36800487
no youre the only retard who thinks hamstrings arent used in squats. No one said squats train your hams, but theres some idiot saying hamstrings arent used in squats.

>>36798750
>working legs releases growth hormone.
Working quads releases large amount of test, I think. Or maybe doing squats does it since basically your whole body but arms is being worked...
>>36799091
>hamstrings are not active in squats
No idea about high-bar, but they are definitely used in low-bar.
Try doing squats and then deadlifts right afterwards or a while after on the same day, if you don't feel them during the squat itself.
>>36799143
Shoot a video of yourself from the side.
There are two main points to note:
1. you may be doing more of a snatch startup than deadlift, so basically squatting the weight
2. you may start in that position, but, unconsciously, your but shoots way up in the air before you actually start lifting the weight as your body is atuomatically searching for and positioning in its strongest position, which make remove amount of tension from your body, hence limiting your lift

>>36800892
>you may start in that position, but, unconsciously, your but shoots way up in the air before you actually start lifting the weight as your body is atuomatically searching for and positioning in its strongest position
This would only work if my hamstrings were strong which they arent. I do them with a mirror beside me so I know its not 2.
>snatch deadlift
Yeah this looks a lot closer to the form I use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E42_MZOKktU

>>36800906
That's basically squat with the weight in your arms.
Thus your initial claim of never having worked legs is false (as it is anyway since deadlift does work legs to an extent).
And since the form, just from observation as I've got no experience with such an exercise, looks more quads dominant, it is possibly the reasong for your quads being so developed, as your doctor says.
The other problem to your squat could be tightness limitation.
Get someone to check your form.
Or make a video and post it here, possibly OWG or PLG, they may check it.

>>36800966
Ive never squatted with weight until recently. My claim isnt false. I took an interest in legs last week. Ive always had massive legs though from track and doing jumping squats though.

>>36800980
Makes sense.
How much are you squatting anyway?
I know that, having been 6weeks off lifting, the very first day, all the exercises felt bad and squats felt especially bad. The very next session, 2 days later, they felt great.
And overall squats are a bit uncomfortable to get into until you properly grasp how to do them, when they become the best exercise.
Like, I wanted to stop squatting and focus on my upper body when I returned, and, well, squatting all day erry day now again, fuck everything. Picked up front squats to that as well. And will start DLing soon as well again.
Fuck, now I'm sad that I can't go to the gym today because I was yesterday :(

>>36801001
Like I said before. My knees shake when I hit 185. Its not really the pushing up thats the problem. My squatting form is probably also wrong. I keep my feet pointed forward because of what Ive been preached all my life about how toes out would place weight off quads and onto the inner thighs which werent good for running.
But even without that my knees shouldnt be shaking this hard.

>>36801033
>I keep my feet pointed forward because of what Ive been preached all my life
I believe you are aware that you need to change this.
>weight off quads and onto the inner thighs
Those are worked quite a lot during squats, keeping knees from collapsing, helping you keep balanced...
>My knees shake
I have seen only a few people squat in my life in real life, and the only time I saw anyone shaking was when my schoolmate in high-school tried squatting for the first time, literally raising his heels off the floor some 3-5cm up and basically squatting on his front feet. His feet were pointed quite forward if I remember correctly as well. And his mobility was very, very bad at the time.
Drop the weight to some 150lbs and for a while squat 3x8 or even 5x8, but with the right form, have someone teach you or check it, just to learn the pattern. Strength increase can wait two weeks if it means you learn the form and get rid of the bad habbits and limiting factors.

>>36801033
It sounds like your legs are strong enough for the weight but your technique is not. Do something in line with what >>36801076 says and widen your stance slightly and find the right angles.