Beginner routine
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Convince me not to start with stronglifts 5x5 today
>>36551282
Greyskull LP is superior and the best beginner routine out there.
>>36551308
>Greyskull LP
I'm a little too dumb to add my own accessory lifts for that one but I tried it and I like it because of the pull-ups
not OP btw
Starting Strength is better. 3x5 better for progression.
>>36551308
Recovering fatfuck here, never could do a single chinup so far
>>36551333
>getting memed on by trips
Kinda scared of power cleans, but just generally, why 3x5 over 5x5?
Also should add I'm still on a permacut, 5'8, 82kg, 19yrs old
>>36551357
>why 3x5 over 5x5?
Can go heavier for better progress. Once your progress stops being linear (and your form etc is good) switch to Texas Method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIB_X2N6020
Mark went through every SS exercise with the Art of Manliness guy, they'll appear in Related Videos I suppose.
>>36551282
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=170130833
This is a superior beginner routine.
>>36551282
I'm going to the gym today as well OP, I have trained on SS (and had some progress with it, but you can't not progress when you are DYEL...) but I'm wondering what should I start with today
tfw skinnyfat, I'm going to end myself if I don't go out of skinnyfat mode
>>36551397
Stick with SS. I was skinnyfat and I started *light* on everything. But just add 2.5 or 5kg every session or two, and it'll add up over time.
>>36551379
Am I not adding a flat amount each exercise, e.g. 5lb each week and thus would get higher volume out of 5x5 or do I ramp up the weight with 3x5?
Also yeah saw all the moustache+rippletits videos, pretty concerned about proper form desu
>>36551407
>do I ramp up the weight with 3x5?
You do indeed.
Proper form is a concern for sure. Just watch the vids a few times. Think through the steps, and go too light rather than too heavy.
>>36551282
Google "Strength theory"
Google "10minutemail"
Go back to strength theory
Click on the "28 free programs" button
Enter fake e-mail
Download 28 free programs
Pick the beginner programs you like
These are wayyyyyyyy better than SS, Greyskull LP or whatever. It takes a different approach of volume over intensity.
>>36551282
Doesnt sl have everyone starting with an empty bar? That's entirely pointless for the vast majority of people. Start light with good form, sure. But don't start so fucking light you won't be pushing yourself for weeks.
A program has to have some auto regulation built into it.
>>36551462
Yea I will skip first few weeks of progress, guess it was designed to be easy to follow even for skeletons
Here is a better routine
A
Bench 4x5
lateral raise 3x10
dips 3xf
B
Pullups 4x5 (deadhang every rep)
Facepulls 3x10
curls 3 x "21s"
C
OHP 4x5
DL 4x5 (2 reg 2 sumo)
Glute bridge 3x10
ABCx
Just my opinion though. Squats are the compound jew
>>36551477
Why did you ignore my post me and my wife's son wrote?
I've done SS, SL and Izzys PL2W novice program and nothing compares to Greg Nuckols 28 free programs.
Take a look at them cuck
>>36551462
Yeah that wasted like a month of my time.
>>36551442
>Google "Strength theory"
Sounds like pure, unadultered autism.
>>36551488
> Going to the gym for 30 minutes to do bench, lateral raises and dips.
LOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>>36551488
This is a terrible routine.
>>36551499
How can you do so many beginner programs?
>>36551462
it's to get the form in check y a goof
>>36551530
How do you figure?
>>36551529
>wasting an hour doing pointless accessories
If youre nearing your natty limit or on gear then sure but for beginners there is no reason to do so many needless accessories
>>36551499
Did not yet look into it senpai, will check
>>36551560
Figure about the terrible routine ?
So few exercises, let alone big exercises, it's not funny.
If you're lifting 3 times/week, make it full body.
why does no one recommend a PPL routine?
>>36551524
It is. But autists know how to program.
>>36551565
Do check.
>>36551530
You chose 1 that fits your criteria. There is a different program depending on whether you're a novice, intermediate or advanced and how many days you wish to train a lift.
>>36551499
>Greg Nuckols
literally who
>>36551582
its a beginner routine the point is to progress the compound lifts as fast as possible
everyone looks like shit until they can press decent weight. Doing accessories with bitch weight doesnt do anything for you it is just counter productive. Maybe youll get a little pump but it's not worth wasting time/energy/calories over
>>36551610
Someone who's accomplished more in strength sports than any of the usual suspects.
Which isn't a massive bar to clear, really.
>>36551537
Yeah, I get that. I still don't think for, will really get dialled in until you're lifting closer to your limit. Its damn hard to stay nice and tight with such pussy weight.
Also, you can dial in your form just as easily with higher weights. It's just lazy programming and a marketing ploy. It makes weak and scared fucks feel comfy.
For me personally, I could bench 75kg easily when I started. That's with a completely flat back and no leg drive. Starting with the bar would of been pointless. I dropped down to 60kg and started adopting a powerlifting styled bench and aggressively progressed my weights until I was working closer to proper percentages.
And op. Programs are really unimportant. Focus on form and pay attention to what works for you. Simple works best. The more advanced you become the more complex your programming needs to be.
3x5, 5x5, any other rep scheme within reason will work in the beginning. At least for strength. I've no fucking idea how important rep schemes are for athletes looking for sport specific improvement, or bodybuilders.
>>36551601
Not him. But how did you do so many beginner programs? You'll never make any true progress switching programs all the time. They're not magic, and most are just as good as the rest.
You'll progress faster by sticking to something rather than shopping around for some secret constantly.
>>36551643
I'm not a novice lifter anymore. I tried them all when I was to see what works best for me.
It's not 1 program works for all, you need to do what works for you.
>>36551617
You could progress a hell of a lot faster if you weren't wedded to a bodypart split that has you training the lifts once a week.
>>36551646
That's my point. Trying them all just slows you down. Outside of someone with very specific needs, you just workout how many days you want to lift, and bam. Done.
all the beginner programs are based around the same four movements and a few accessories. They all have you progress in similar fashions and will all have you getting stronger faster.
>>36551661
Did you even read my post? It is ABCx
Youre pretty much training your Bench, OHP, and deadlift twice a week
>>36551379
>heavier for better progress
Woah, I never connected the dots here.
I'm doing SL 5x5 because I assumed extra sets were better. I remember reading a study on pubmed that said that intensity is what induces hypertrophy, but I just didn't connect the dots...
I think it might be time for me to switch to Starting Strength with accessories to get bigger biceps, triceps and traps.
What do you anons think?
>>36551668
It seems you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
How can you possibly get an understanding of training without training?
It's not all about speed of progression, sometimes you need to work on your weaknesses. You're looking at it from a novice viewpoint of more being better when that isn't necessarily the case. It may be for some, but there will be others who need to experiment and train differently.
>>36551679
Volume > Intesnity. The advice you'll always hear from a competitive lifter when asked what they'd do differently if they could start again is that they'd do more volume and less intensity.
A bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle. Getting bigger is the EASIEST way to getting stronger.
>>36551679
They'll both increase your strength. You'll lift heavier weights doing less sets, but not significantly so. Which in turn might mean you're able to express your maximal strength a little better, but you won't be drastically stronger.
You might be better off staying with 5x5 until you feel as though you cannot recover between workouts. Or switch now. Won't really make a huge difference.
>>36551688
No, I'm not. I'm looking at it like this. Switching around programs is bloody idiotic. They're all basically the same.
All of the big beginner programs have a nice balance of exercises, have very similar volume, and treat progression pretty closely.
There's literally no point in jumping about all the time. You'll progress much the same on any sane program. It's only as you advance that complexity needs to be added.
>>36551696
Bear in mind, they're mostly talking about intermediate/advanced lifters who need to take down the intensity.
Beginners can go super high intensity and get away with it, just because 100% for them can be less stressful than 80% for an advanced lifter. Not that they necessarily should, just that percentages going down as 1RMs are going up is pretty standard.
>>36551696
>>36551701
Oooh I'm watching womens' Hockey atm at the gym. This is giving me p. good testosterone gains t b h lads. Maybe I'll keep doing this
>>36551719
>They're all basically the same.
Whatever you say, buddy.
>>36551488
You are a fucking moron
>>36551747
They'll all roughly have the same volume when adjusted for intensity. Even the ones that have been designed by experimentation will roughly pay heed to priliprins. They'll all see you progress day to day or week to week.
Outside of people lifting to enhance athletic performance, shits easy to work out.
So, tell me. How do any of the beginner programs you've tried vary vastly from each other?
>>36551775
Arguing for the sake of arguing. Download those 28 free programs and then tell me how similar they are to SS/SL/Greyskull
>>36551781
So, grayskull, ss and sl, the programs you did are all basically the same. Gslp being the most radically different due to amrap, but that's just a form of very simple auto regulation.
As for nuckols programs, I'm not going to download them. The ones I've seen have been DUP templates for specific movements - outside the scope of beginning focused programs.
>>36551624
>And op. Programs are really unimportant. Focus on form and pay attention to what works for you. Simple works best.
That's my thinking, SL is pretty straightforward and with the app I can barely fuck it up. I'll delve deeper into routines when I'm intermediate, until then stick to a solid base
>>36551835
Pretty much. When you get more advanced you'll have to find a program,mor learn how to do it yourself, the cycles intensities and training modalities so you can continue with whatever your goals are. Until then, enjoy just working on your big lifts and choosing accessories which aid them or act as prehab work.
>>36551815
There are beginner strength theory programs
I grouped SS/SL/Greyskull to infer they are similar and that Greg cuckols programs are vastly different.
If you've only been talking about SS/SL/Greyskull then we're both on different pages here
>>36551462
completely nonsense, if you read up a bit you see that if you can start with the bar(if you are a beginner) or deload 50% on current lifts.
http://xhamster.com/movies/3225270/amateur_chubby.html
I can't watch porn anymore. Everyone looks so ridiculous naked
Look at this creepy skeleton. This is going to give me nightmares
>>36551852
Perhaps we are on different pages. Cuckols is a smart dude, and his way of training beginners does differ somewhat from the norm, but mostly for psychological reasons, not physiological.
His programs still look basically the same. The only difference is he's using DUP, and so progression is weekly and not daily. Which by most standards, aims it more towards intermediates. Although with his thinking, works better for beginners. He's an interesting guy, having read a few things by him. Just read about his thoughts and training beginners, it's interesting but differs from most advice given.
>>36551911
That's my issue with it. You don't need to start with the bar for the majority of lifters, even rank beginners. We're not all equal. Some are stronger than others.
When I started workout with my friend, I had him learn the lifts with very light weights. Took him a single day. After than it was a month before he was hitting 100kg on the bench for a 1rm. The cunt was strong to begin with. Even having him start with 50kg would of been useless.
Again, ss is solid. It's just a few things like that which make it silly.
>>36551499
Not him, but SS is simpler to follow, and you need to chill.
>>36551610
Some dude I've literally only read about because a redditor linked him.
i wonder what frank is going to do with the rest of his life
he's in his 30s now, I think he's maybe approaching mid 30s?
all hes done is make psuedo-arty films on utube where he sucks black dildos
i wonder if he'll kill himself
>>36551282
Just lift bro. It doesn't really matter what for the first few weeks or months as long as it's barbell based and not totally autistic.
For my 2c, I think that SL is fine. Why? Not only does it have a bitchin' smartphone app that is easy and free, it also has you doing 5x5 of each lift, which is golden for hammering in proper form. For the first few weeks, it's a lot better than SS, because you're doing 6 more sets a week as practice on weight so light that if you fuck up, it won't fuck YOU up.
After the first few weeks, just drop the last 2 sets and you're on SS. You can swap to Greyskull LP in pretty much the same way.
>>36551911
>complete nonsense
>goes on to state mostly what the guy before said
Starting Strength has an excellent method for determining your starting lifts. Only on power cleans do you start with an empty bar even if an empty bar isn't a work out for you.
>>36551987
I agree? I just disagree that all novice programmes are the same. SS/SL/Greyskull are similar, but there are many more programs out there.
>>36551988
>SS is easier to follow
You're only really hurting yourself with this way of thinking
>>36551610
Opened up the site first thing I saw was an article about how to improve your bench by changing your bar path. From one that's already wrong to one that looks designed to fuck your shit up.
>>36551308
GLP is literally SL+chin and curls
>>36551621
>This guy unclogged my toilet really well, he's a fantastic plumber, wielded that snake really well. Obviously he should be lead engineer on the city's new sewer treatment plant.
Literally the best litmus test to tell if someone's an idiot.
>>36552041
Except he's right. You can look at the bar path on pretty much any good bench presser and see it uses the latter bar path.
>>36552029
Easier to follow, in that it's the same few exercises constantly. For somebody new to lifting, it's easy to follow while you look up alternatives. I did it for a few weeks to learn basic form and figure out I wanted to do a PPL, and also to program that PPL.
>>36552072
Sounds like you don't know what you're doing if you think PPLs are similar to SS. You've only learnt one shitty method of high intensity crashing and burning.
A child could understand Gregory Cuckols programs.
>>36552052
He's also coached more competitive lifters (and, for that matter, worked with more well-respected coaches) than the others as well.
>>36552081
>PPL's are similar to SS
No, that's not what I said. I said I did SS while I researched other routines, and eventually decided I wanted to do a PPL. But I still had those weeks of lifting on SS in the bag, plus I had a decent idea of form used in basic compounds. And if a PPL doesn't have Bench, Squat, Dead and OHP in it, it's probably shit.
My point it, that pointing a beginner to random, complicated programs is a shit idea (28 choices? Really?). Putting them on SS as a holding pattern, so they learn how to lift and are actually doing something, while they look at available routines and decided what they want to do, is a great idea.
>>36551488
>2 reg, 2 sumo
>>36551282
Wait, is 3x5 different from 5x5? I thought 5x5 just included the warm up sets then you 3x5 of your top weight. Does 3x5 mean you only do one at the highest weight?
>>36552043
It's literally not you dumb fuck. It has different progression.
>>36551282
pay attention to your joints (shoulder, elbow, knees) when doing 5x5
Sup/fit/
After 6 months of doing Greyskull I am generally satisfied, but I am considering adding one more lifting day, because now Im doing it 3 days a week and I feel I could do more than that. Is that a good idea? After applying modification my routine will look like this:
Teusday, Saturday:
Bench press 3x5
Weighted chinups 2x8
Barbell curls 2x8
Squats/front squats 3x5
Abs exercises
Thursday/sunday:
OHP 3x5
Weighted dips 2x6
Preacher curls 2x8
Deadlift 1x5
Abs exercises
>>36551282
I'm doing SL as well. I think that no matter what routine you roll with you're going to be picking up some strength.
SL is great, go for it. See you on the other side.
>>36551282
Start with Strong Lifts+ chinups. The point is for you to get used to the movements and to find your working weights.
do this until you go a week without increasing weight
then switch to a Texas Method based program, using the 5rm's you have from SL5x5
use until you go 4 weeks without increasing any weights
then switch to 5/3/1
R8 my 5x5 routine /fit
1. Squat 5x5
2. Overhead press 5x5
3. Deadlift 3x5
4. Pull ups/dips 3xF/2xF
>>36551282
Skelly here. How am I suppose to gain weight when my bowels are so healthy that I shit twice a day? I eat three times a day and random shit in between. I used to eat less than that. But I still have not hit 57kg ever in my life.
>tfw I have a friend who has terrible diet, smokes and shits once a week
>Is still fucking huge
I don't fucking understand the human body.
>>36553181
>I eat three times a day and random shit in between. I used to eat less than that
have you counted the calories of said food and tried just upping it?
>>36553181
That much if fucking obvious.
"Hey guys I don't count what I eat, but JK sure it's alot. I can't gain weight, must be a fucked up metabolism and not fucked up hunger levels!"
>>36553181
>How am I suppose to gain weight
eat more
>>36553181
>>tfw I have a friend who has terrible diet, smokes and shits once a week
>>Is still fucking huge
if he shits less than twice a day I guarantee you he's tiny.
Fatass here, I've been doing the routine in image for a little over a month now, but I dont really know how good it is. I did SS for about a month a few years ago moved into a split, got a demanding job, lost a lot of progress and now im back at it. If it matters I swim for about an hour before each work out and im finally getting close to swimming freestyle without looking like im drowning. I just have to get breathing down.
Can you guys look this over and tell me any changes i need to make? Here are a couple things that stand out to me:
-Not a fan of smith machines so i switched the Smith Machine Shoulder Press for a standing OHP.
-I'm too fat to do a pull up and there isnt a pull up assistance machine at my gym, so I kind of switched it out for a wide gripped lat pulldown. I will probably switch to doing negatives once my upperbody gets a little stronger and I lose a little bit more weight.
-I'm not very confident in my bent over rows. Any tips or suggestions on correct form? I see a lot of conflicting information on form when i try to find youtube videos on this. I think i used to do pendlay rows back when I did SS.
-Cable crossovers are another one I'm not to confident on my form on.
-Do I use an easy curl bar for preacher curls? Rippetoe says they are useless, so i figured i should at least investigate further.
-The leg press right after squats seems a bit redundant, but I dont know too much about the leg press. Also are leg extensions ok? I have increased my weight for them by 80lbs in two weeks, I'm not sure if im doing something wrong or if its mostly noob gains.
I'm consistently adding weight on most days. Leg days have improved the most, though I just now reached 1pl8 squats and my balance and form was pretty off on my last two sets. However, I didnt increase any weight on my bench last week (Hell i barely managed to get 4 reps in) because my triceps felt like they were exhausted only when under load. Is that because I swam pre-workout?
>>36555125
Oh and I forgot to mention, regardless what the image says, i usually rest about 2 minutes between sets. Sometimes 3 if I feel like i need it.
Thanks for the help /fit/
>>36555140
You don't have to take this advice, but I'd try and incorporate deadlifts on back day.
Squatting and deadlifting on the same day is probably detrimental.
>>36555502
I'll give that a shot, Thanks.
There's something I don't understand about linear progression. I was going to make my own thread, but decided I might as well just post here. How am I supposed to be able to add weight EVERY SINGLE WORKOUT?? I started with a slightly modified version of SS and SL 5x5, doing a few more exercises, because my gym was a bit away and didn't want to be there for just 45 minutes. Kicked it up to about 1 1/2 hours so I felt like I was actually doing something to make the bus ride worth it. I am eating enough, using Lifesum to count calories and macros, and even though I usually finish the day with about 5% left on my plan, it's set to gain 1kg a week, and I figure that won't make a difference anyways. In the start I could add on bench, squat and deadlift, but after like three workouts, I found the weight that fit to the amount of reps I was doing. I tried simply putting on 1.25kg next time, and could barely do it. Same goes for all exercises. Next time again I added another 1.25kg, and basically failed all my sets. I deloaded to weight from last workout, and I did my usual routine. How does this linear progression work? Am I doing something wrong?
>>36556139
How long have been on the program? It's not supposed to last longer than a few months. Form is also very important in progressing efficiently and yours is probably off even if you don't realize it.
>>36556172
I've been lifting for two months. The progress / adding weights lasted for about two weeks, then it dropped down to the level it is now, where I add weight maybe once every week or two. I'm pretty sure my form on bench is good, but that's the one I've been progressing best on. Form on squat started shit but after a month I got it sorted out. I take a sweater around my neck, put the bar on it so it's resting along my shoulder line, drive in my heels, go semi-slow ATG, then back up. Legs are spread maybe a couple centimeters more than my shoulders on it.
My lifts as of now are:
Bench: 42.5kg 3x5
Squat: 45kg 3x5
OHP: 25kg 3x8 (but I tend to accidently lean back a bit on the last few reps)
Deadlift: 90kg 1RM
Pullups: I can do 1 with 10kg added, or like 13-15 in a row on a good day.
Started at 58kg, weighed 63 today.
183cm 18y
Current body is pic related.
My problem essentially is that I feel I'm not progressing at the speed my program tells me to. When they say every workout, and I'm doing AxBxAxxBxAxBxx, is it every day that I workout, or every A / B?
Also, what lifts should I ideally acquire before starting a PPL?
>>36556321
Well, something is obviously off. If you are honest about your calorie intake and your macros, it has to be an issue with recovery or in the gym, but it's probably the latter.
If you post vids of your lifts we could rule that out but I'm 90% it's form issues.
>>36551462
This.
I started SL with 40kg bench, I had gone to the gym before and didnt feel like wasting a month.
Urgin people to start with the bar is a nice trick to make the plateue come later than it should.
>>36556321
Another thing to add: You will still progress with shitty form, but it will end sooner than if you had good form. The progression rate is about the same, but good form will let you progress longer and safer.
>>36556444
Thanks a lot. I don't have any videos, but I might take some to review my form.
>>36556321
Nigga you look like me. But why are your lifts so low?
I mean 45kg squat? You been in a wheelchair all your life?
>>36556502
Filming yourself will fix a lot of issues almost instantly.
Squat: You can't see how low you're going, or how your back looks, or your bar path when looking in the mirror. A sideview will fix this instantly.
Bench: Bar path, wrist position, forearm position, how deep your elbows go. All can be seen from the side.
Deadlift: Mainly lower back rounding that's easier to detect from the side.
OHP: Elbow position, wrist position.
All of these issues are hard to miss when looking in the mirror, especially when lifting heavy weights and your focus is directed elsewhere. A recorded sideview is the best thing for you.
>>36556563
I've done long distance running as a hobby for 3 years. For 7 years (until 3 years ago) I was swimming on high level. We weren't 'allowed' to pack too much muscle since it makes it harder to float because of density. We worked out, but not with weights. After swimming I started the running with my dad, and I've been skelly mode all my life. Just recently got over a BMI of 18, which is the lower limit to standard. I'm just lucky that I have visible abs, it makes me look a lot stronger / more fit than I actually am.
>>36556616
You def should not be off linear progress at this point. Keep eating and lifting.
