Daily reminder if you eat any of these food, you're not going to make it.
>no milk
>no meat
Yeah no.
>>36546458
>>36546524
is this the reason why vegans are such a pussies?
>>36546524
>>36546544
>being too scientifically illiterate to distinguish two types of estrogens and their roles on physique
lol, retarded meat-eaters
>>36546504
Fatass.
>>36546558
Enjoy your gyno
>>36546561
>doubling down on being scientifically illiterate
It's time for everyone's favorite game show!
SPOT!
THE!
VEGAN!
>>36546558
>being too scientifically illiterate to distinguish two types of estrogens and their roles on physique
Elaborate
>>36546589
Every meat-eater in this thread has proven themselves to be scientifically illiterate retards, so I'm happy being the educated one
>>36546458
>apples
Nooooooooooo
I like tasty green apples
The only thing i care for is garlic, fresh garlic on everything, bad breath master race.
I couldn't date someone who won't eat garlic or raw onions.
>>36546458
>tfw russian
Love myself fucking
>cherries
>cucumber
>sunflower seeds
>garlic
>parsley
>>36546612
You mean proven to be superior in every way to you weak vegan fags
>>36546458
>implying the amount of estrogen found on those foods can impact building muscle in any significant way.
>>36546661
we would make good friends if you´re not a mudslime
>>36546458
>barley
>rice
>wheat
Well so much for eating almost anything, right? Who needs food.
Never mind that this pic comes from a website that talks about 'natural breast enhancement' for women. It's not 'broscience', it's 'femscience'.
Semi-original attempt at trolling, I'll give you 2/10.
Phytoestrogens don't mean shit and they don't do shit. This thread is redundant.
DELETE THIS
E
L
E
T
E
T
H
I
S
>>36546458
>>0 sources
everything I find on google says the opposite really great case you've made OP thanks but I'll continue to enjoy my rice,garlic and apples
>>36546594
Phytoestrogens are chemicals created by plants for the purposes of hormonal signaling. These chemicals are similar, but not identical, to estrogen. However, chemical similarities in structure doesn't mean identical function. Ethanol will get you drunk, methanol will blind you.
That having been said, SOME phytoestrogens have analogous effects to mammal hormones, the prime example being estradiol (which comes from a desert plant and is the basis of birth control pills). Fenugreek's phytoestrogens will increase lactation.
Bottom line: phytoestrogens, probably even soy, won't be bad enough to turn you into a transgender, so eat what you can consistently make gains on. Consistency and ensuring you are eating whole, natural foods like grass fed meat, wild caught fish and green vegetables are the best.
>>36546709
http://www.livestrong.com/article/70189-estrogenic-foods-avoid/
>>36546524
This picture claims that flax seed is literally 38% phytoestrogen by weight.
>>36546727
>>36546723
Source?
>>36546708
ukrainian born, the lack of baby green garlic in usa is disturbing
>>36546755
Here's one, for example http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
>>36546458
If this is true why isn't everyone consuming Phytotestosterone and making serious gains??
>>36546737
>livestrong
Come on, man. Barely a step above naturalnews.com. Same level as Men's Fitness or GQ
>>36546800
I am.
>>36546826
Post a list like OP
>>36546524
I knew about soy and tofu but is bread really that bad for testosterone? What's the best type of bread to maintain high test levels?
>>36546754
that's 0.37% you retard, it's per 100g
![MJf7MKu[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/lwh5A1s.png "MJf7MKu[1].png")
>>36546800
Here's your serious gains
Keep eating tofu and soy protein. nothing bad is going to happen
>>36546612
It sounds like you're uneducated if you're so quick to jump to conclusions and base your beliefs on a few anecdotal situations.
>>36546847
I enjoy how you complete ignore a clinical, peer-reviewed study and dismiss soy with an example of one person
Why are meat-eaters so retarded?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
>>36546847
I eat neither of those things simply asking a question also vegan gainz looks terrible because he's a lanklet that eats close to 0 fat.
There's other vegan youtubers who look much better.
pic related
>>36546894
He's on roids senpai.
>>36546847
This is just shit tier genetics.
>>36546770
let´s play some dota, comrade
>>36546907
>Anyone who proves they can apply a vegan diet properly toward their physique must be roiding
Typical meat-eating retard
>>36546907
>>weak vegan It must be all the soy
>>strong vegan he's on roids
4/10 for making me reply
Pure bs garlic has been known to decrease estrogen nice try goy
>>36546887
Because the proof is in the pudding and this man is a spokesman for your beliefs
>>36546935
>>36546940
>being this naive.
>>36546887
>>36546789
>men by lowering bioavailable T
Nice try vegan goy
>>36546572
>gyno damage control
>>36546921
you'll be much disappoint my friend, i play azn mmos if i have time
>>36546845
>What's the best type of bread to maintain high test levels?
Evidently, cornbread. Also, watermelon is good for high test. Maybe this is the explanation for nigger genetics...
>>36546887
>>36546789
The study was conducted on men with low testosterone, it even says on the objective.
Go away green goblins.
>>36546940
>>36546935
>has visible abs while eating high fat carb vegan protein sources
>not on roids
Sure f am.
>>36547048
>carbs are spooky
You're retarded
>>36547013
No it doesn't. You're both scientifically and regularly illiterate.
"To determine whether isoflavones exert estrogen-like effects in men by lowering bioavailable T through evaluation of the effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), free T, and free androgen index (FAI) in men."
>>36547048
>>high fat
u wot
>>36546727
omg look its a reasonable anon
Doesn't garlic decrease estrogen?
>tfw eat a whole clove raw
>>36546458
>No apples for that boost when I'm dragging ass
I mean I like bananas but sometimes I need the sugar.
>No flax seed in my morning oatz
I bet you don't have chia and fresh blueberries mixed in either, nor do you use vanilla/dark chocolate almond milk. What's it like not looking forward to breakfast every day?
>No rice
I don't really eat rice. If I want to bulk I just double my daily oatz and legumes and add a gallon of milk to my diet.
>No garlic
Nigga you lost me.
>>36546727
I thank god for anons like you, always bringing light to the darkest corners of mental retardation
Keep it up please
>>36547225
>falling for vegan propaganda.
Not gonna make it.
Can someone post a pic of a NATTY vegan who isn't skinny? I have never seen one before
>>36547263
>falling for all existing memes
anon, I..
>>36546847
>nothing bad is going to happen
Then why the fuck is he green?
>>36546612
>>36546847
Not /veganfag/ but i eat a lot of tofu, theres two kinds one where the soy estrogen is inactive and wont mess with your levels and the other fucks your gains
>>36549317
What about GMO shit?
>>36546458
got sources OP? I've heard there's no concrete evidence that phytoestrogen has any hormonal effect on humans.
>>36546894
i think that dude legitimately has makeup on his muscle insertions
>>36546458
What the fuck is up with this picture? I think it's fucking junk, OP. Apple skins contain a phytotestosterone kind-of compound which actually had effects when isolated, which like >>36549950 says, is the exception to the rule. I'm pretty sure garlic contains some natural anti-estros - onions certainly do, and I was under the impression similar compounds showed up in garlic. I may be wrong on the garlic though.
Either way, this image is a pile of shit and nobody should use it as a guideline, even females.
>>36546524
Some of these are really missing the mark too. The phytoestrogens in onion FIGHT estrogen concentration in the body.
>>36546845
why do you eat bread you retard eat oats
>>36552731
Why not eat oats in bread form?
>>36552746
thats the same shit faggit stop being retarded
>>36552768
No u
>>36552782
no u
>>36552795
U first
>>36553003
Lady's first
>>36546589
>>36546612
I SPOTTED THE VEGAN!
>>36553145
LONDON
O
N
D
O
N
Post feminine benis pls
>>36546458
Nigga imma eat as much garlic as I want to . Get fucked
>>36546935
>>36546940
Holy shit, vegans really are the most deluded and stupid people ever
>>36553261
GAYLORD
A
Y
L
O
R
D
Go be gay on /b/ boooooooiiii
>>36553639
No u
>>36553715
No you first
>>36546894
How much water did he drink and drain with diuretika to loose this vegan green hue?
>>36546458
> tfw pharmacology master's
I want the phytoestrogens meme to go and stay go
> for phytoestrogens to have an appreciable effect they have to survive the destructive conditions of the GI tract which has evolved to degrade cholesterols from the diet
> even if they were to survive GI transit, what they'd do when they bind estrogen receptors is anyone's guess since they could either induce estrogen signalling or block it entirely
> or they could just not bind the receptor at all because they're too structurally different
tl;dr everyone's wrong, keep eating what you make gains on, and don't worry about stupid shit like this
> inb4 the study with n=1 where someone ate fucktons of soy and got gyno
>>36553933
>being this insecure about your gyno
>>36553747
No u
>>36553974
I insist, you first ;)
>>36549991
I think you're right.
>>36553990
No, no. You go ahead.
>>36546847
After 10 years of lifting on a vegan diet, he deadlifts 315 and squats/benches 185. Poor vegans.
>>36546458
>apple
>cucumber
>rice
>garlic
Jokes on you, I'm a grill.
>>36554106
he looks like shit
>>36554097
nah im cool with being secon for this time you go first bro :)
>>36554196
N-no I'm shy. You go first.
>>36554205
But im shyer i get spaghettie out pockets you g-go first..
>>36546458
>soy isn't in the list
>literally one of the richest foods in phytoestrogen
>>36554292
That's your spaghetti. You do it.
>>36546612
That was fucking fast
>>36546727
>However, chemical similarities in structure doesn't mean identical function. Ethanol will get you drunk, methanol will blind you.
But Ethanol and Methanol will both get you drunk, Methanol just comes with the possible side effect of blindness. Are the estrogens the same? Do they actually have different functions?
>>36554471
We all gone make it anyways bro, you can go first my friend
>>36553933
Lying on the internet doesn't work breh.
>>36554911
I'm not gonna make it, bro. You go on without me.
>>36555093
No man dont say that we gone make it...together lets kiss...nohomo
also you go first
>>36546458
None of those foods have even a single molecule of estrogen in them. They all have phytoestrogens - eating phytoestrogen in moderate quantities is great for you. It won't make you grow breasts, it won't interfere with your testosterone, it will however help your skin and hair.
The only way you can change your body with phytoestrogens is if you literally GOSAD - gallon of soymilk a day.
>>36547009
It's the citruline in the watermelon. While the flesh has a bit of it, the rinds are actually full of it.
Pickled watermelon rinds are GOAT-tier guys.
>>36555115
:( Nah, I'm fine. You go.
Garlic is really good as a seasoning for meat. It purifies not only the blood of the meat, but your own blood as well.
>>36546727
> vegan propaganda
I am >>36546727 and I am most certainly not a vegan. That said, I don't hate on vegans who actually show progress and aren't insufferable pricks about their chosen lifestyle. Patrik Baboumian is a good example, Germany's Strongest man and a gorillamode vegan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG_4TPBeAcE
>>36554884
> Are the estrogens the same?
Er, yes and no. An estrogen is a type of 'aromatic' chemical. Aromatic means that the chemical has a ring (benzene is an example). Aromatics include phenols and terpenes - many of which play valid roles in flavors of herbs or alcohol or whatever.
Phytoestrogens can bind to estrogen receptors because they have that same ring shapes. Strictly speaking, these rings are called flavones - you see flavones in herbs and green things usually. Beans and pulses have something called 'isoflavones' (greek meaning 'same size as flavone'). You may have heard of soy isoflavones, as an example.
So these flavone rings can bind to an estrogen receptor, and this means one of two things:
1. It can stimulate the estrogen receptor for its intended purpose (estrogenic effect)
2. It can not stimulate the estrogen receptor for its intended purpose, and just block that receptor (antiestrogenic effect). This means it can either do nothing, or, over the course of repeated chemical signals, 'dilute' the effect and act as a net lessening of estrogenic effects.
Sometimes this effect is synergistic with existing hormonal actions in the body. This is how fenugreek can make women lactate more but increase T in men.
Bottom line: science is more complicated than broscience but worth the extra time to do your homework. Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) foods are just that, dont freak out about it.
>>36546727
>Bottom line: phytoestrogens, probably even soy, won't be bad enough to turn you into a transgender
Thanks for telling me, I was worried already!
>>36555199
do it for zyzz my nigga make him proud you go first. he wants you to go first. pls go...jeff
>>36546727
>grass fed meat
almost took you seriously
>>36555316
I wonder if there is a homegym equivalent for traps/trans who don't want to buy actual hormones and so they just eat as much soy as they can.
>>36555237
What does that even mean
>>36555341
Anon, you have taken way to many scoops. Go ahead before you hurt yourself.
>>36555249
Thanks anon. I'm an MD and didn't even know most of this in relation to phytoestrogens. What dosages of the highest phytoestrogen foods is needed to make a significant difference for a bodybuilding male? Can a diet reasonably reach these levels?
>>36555904
That's where I'm out of my league: I support healthcare IT (EHR integration) and research studies (if you've had to go through an IRB online or use a commodity genomics pipeline or longitudinal research study mart, I've probably touched the product stack). There's an master's in pharmacology in this thread somewhere who can give more details.
That said, I can probably say that since most of the studies on the effects of phytoestrogens have been in the context of cardiovascular health, NHLBI might have some good studies.
>>36546727
>tfw grassfed meat is delicious
I am not a vegan but man soy is actually bretty gud, in 100g of soy there is 89g of protein so yea...
>>36557418
Soy would have to be 89% protein by weight for that to be true.
>>36555391
No your my bro and 10 scoops is normal af. so you go first my brotha dont disappoint me go
>>36546727
So maybe when you have many useless phytoestrogenes in your body your body don't pick up normal estrogen
Like iodine in salt works against radioaktive iodine
Thank god, taquitos aren't on the menu. I'm still making it
>>36546847
whats this guy's name?
>>36546770
Salo Ukrainii!
Geroyam salo!
>>36559702
That's the concept behind estrogenic blockers, but those are usually taken in pharmaceutical form in a series of regular doses.
Remember, your endocrine system is creating hormones in various proportion round the clock. Phytoestrogens, if they survive the denaturing process of your digestive system, will only stick around for a while.
So, let's assume that soy, for example has an anti estrogenic effect. OK, fine, but to keep those isoflavones in your system 24/7 you'd need to eat so much soy you'd get fat, and that fat would up your estrogen levels.
>>36546847
Probably more important than phyto estrogens is the fact that unless you eat beef, fish, or other animal products, you're unlikely to get the proper form and amount of vitamin B12, amongst other nutrients that only exist in meat.
And it's not even just any kind of meat, you literally have to eat beef, lamb, or certain fish just to get the recommended daily minimum of B12.
Of course you can take supplements, but those are obviously inferior to the natural form (in most cases).
So, if I eat these, I can get a jump start on she-male mode so that I can sell my body when the economy collapses?
>>36546845
Phytoestrogens do not affect your testosterone levels
>>36546524
Fuck you man my almonds, blueberries and garlic are for general health purposes. Have fun being a bald faggot with mood swings and poor vascularity.
>>36560492
>almonds
They're...activated right?
