whats /fit/ excuse for not going vegan yet?
>inb4 muh protein
lentils got u covered mah niggas
ever since I've switched my energy has increased 20x and my gf says my cum taste so delicious
>>36458944
GIF version
>>36458944
it tastes like shit, its too hard to get proteems, I dont actually give a fuck about animals because I'm at the top of the food chain and don't have to, vegan culture is annoying as fuck, and I like meat.
Where's his lats?
i already have senpai
anyone hesitating watch:
forks over knives
cowspiracy
earthlings
>>36458944
I was for well over a year. Endless shitting, lethargy and mental health problems abound.
Veganism works for some people, but it's really not healthy for everyone.
>>36459010
it's okay brah atleast you tried.
>>36458944
Because I get hard thinking about how the steak I am eating came from a cow who has been brutalised and tortured its entire miserable life then brutally slaughtered just so I can eat its flesh.
>>36458944
I don't care about animals being mistreated enough.
I like the taste and texture of meat.
I dislike the taste and texture of tofu.
I find it harder to hit my protein requirement while cutting without animal products.
I am not prepared to remove non-dietary animal products from my life.
Even if I did decide to remove all animal products from my diet, I would never identify as a vegan, because I am not a whiny little cunt who cries about us stealing eggs from chickens.
btw im a vegan
fuck off with your agenda you beta cunt.
if it wasn't to meat we wouldn't have survived for all these years.
i don't give a lowly fuck about these literal subhumans, they're there to be fucked and killed for our entertainment.
we are the top of the pyramid and it's staying that way.
>>36459080
you are god
>>36458967
anyone else see it?
>>36458944
im vegetarian, does that count?
Because I don't give a shit about chickens, cows, or pigs, I like meat and milk, and it's a lot easier to get my macros when animal products are an option.
I don't eat red meat but I'm not giving up chicken and fish.
>whats /fit/ excuse for not going vegan yet?
Because I really just do not want to. I enjoy meat.
We shouldn't try to push people to be vegan. Just spread information about how it's better for the environment and (usually) our overall health. If people feel forced, they will only fight against it harder.
>>36458944
I'm plant based... just not plant exclusive
>>36459227
It'd be better if we just killed off 5 billion people or so
The environment would appreciate it
>>36458944
This guy is off his rocker. Wishes death on others for even thinking about eating meat, and he clearly has a lot of non-essential consumer goods that involve the use of animal products in their production.
>>36459010
nice meme
>>36458944
I like the taste of meat.
I love milk and dairy, cheese, yogurt etc
I don't want to eat only veggies and beans.
Hope this is clear enough.
>>36458944
>whats /fit/ excuse for not going vegan yet?
I'm not a retarded DYEL hipster
>>36459227
If you're active and not fat there is literally nothing you stand to gain by going vegan
>>36458974
>top of the food chain
Lol not even vegan here but what kind of retarded argument is that?
Ofcourse humans have control over their environment and what they eat
I just googled lentil nutrtional value and this is 1 cup uncooked
HOLY SHIT that protein is insane
Please give me your lentil recipes /fit/
>>36459227
>it's better for the environment
Its not. Fuck off.
>our overall health
Its not. Fuck off.
>>36459227
>>36459245
fuck you and your environment you animal cunts
we homosapiens are here to stay
YOU HEAR ME?!
YOU BEASTS ARE NOTHING BUT FOOD AND EQUIPMENT TO US
WE WILL SMASH EVERYTHING THERE IS LEFT OF YOU TO MAKE USE OF IT AND USE YOUR CHILDREN AS FUCK SLAVES
>>36459292
678 cals wow m8.....
>>36459292
>700cal for 50g of unbalanched protein
kek, enjoy your eternal bulk
>>36458944
i was done with this whiney nigger when he claimed he had 19" arms, his are 14" max maybe 15 now if he actually has been hitting the gym
>>36458944
I'm already vegetarian.
>>36459292
No shit, it's a whole fucking cup of uncooked lentils. It's still over 2:1 carbs to protein, which isn't bad but nothing special.
>>36459309
>>36459324
>>36459333
Yeah thats alot of cals, but 1 cop uncooked turns into like 3 cops cooked. I usually cooked 2 meals in advance so like my dinner and then half goes into the fridge for tomorrows lunch.
Because i can't afford to diet like the "youtube vegans" as a student. If you look at their "1 day worth of food" they're eating tofu, soy burgers, tzay, premade vegan springrolls all which are like 5-10 bucks a meal. I would love some youtuber to show me some nice cheap meals (thats not just lentil soup). Until then im sticking to my sweetpotatoes and chicken thats 50 cent a meal for 80 grams of protein which also tastes awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EQaTOVpOgk
Why do vegans always look so sickly and frail?
>>36459378
Where are you where a meals worth of chicken is less than 50 cents....
>>36458944
you'll lose your sanity.
>>36459292
>700 cals for 50g of protein
>>36459384
This guys looks like a recovering cancer patient
>>36459146
oh fuck
>>36459295
Put those edges away kid
You've already smashed and fucked everything
>>36459384
And not a single pullup was seen that day,.
>>36459293
Animal agriculture causes 51% of the world's emission of greenhouse gases.
It's also the cause of 90% of the deforestation of the rain forests, an acre is cleared every second.
It's currently wiped out 100 species that were living in the rain forest that died because of habitat destruction.
The cow/pig manure is leaking into the ocean due to nobody having a clear plan on how to dispose of it and causing "dead zones" in the oceans where it kills off all the fish in those areas due to the increase in methane and nitrogen.
It is one of the main causes of world hunger. If everyone was vegan, we'd be able to feed around 14 billion people, which is twice the current population. Instead we feed 50% of the world's grains to the cows that we then slaughter for meat.
You really can't win against me in that argument. Factory farming is the worst thing for the environment right now. It releases more greenhouse gases than all trains, planes, cars, boats put together.
>>36459392
1 KG of frozen chicken drumsticks are about 2 dollars, if you buy them when they're on sale, you can get them for 80 cents a kilo (i bought like 24 kilo last time they were on sale, and i bought 24 kg of frozen chicken breasts last week for 84 dollars)
Also, this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9VDVwkJ4YM
Idk how he survives on a vegan diet. He looks like he's on death's door.
>>36459449
Poor people in shit countries do stupid shit, not my fault. We produce far more food than we can even store, so much we have to throw a bunch of it away or convert it to fuel. It's not our agriculture which causes some kid in the congo to starve to death, it's the fact that they never invented the god damned wheel. We replant our trees, they don't. We cordon off natural forests for the sake of preserving biodiversity, they don't. We collect our cowshit and use it to grow more food, they let it wash into the river. You want to help them be less retarded, fine, go do that, but don't sit there and claim that the fact that I eat beef is forcing them to shit up their land and water.
>>36459475
Holy shit man nice.
>>36459519
The meat u eat is grown in those poor countries. Even assuming it isn't, cows still produce a fuckton of methane which is why cattle is bad for the environment. Also no one shovels up cow shit, they just let that shit rot and release however much methane into the atmosphere.
>>36458992
>Watch muh propaganda pieces aimed at emotional cheapshots for first world hipsters.
pls stahp.
Listen, lets be fucking real about this whole vegan thing.
>There isn't anything "wrong" with or without being vegan.
It's strictly a dietary preference. That's it.
>Lifestock are treated poorly.
Yep, they sure are. And it sucks, and more ethical methods should be enforced with the strictest methods possible. I agree.
>It's more easily sustainable
No it's not. The land needed to cover the agricultural need to feed billions of people with farmland isn't practical for the world. This is why you see heavy agriculture in island nations, and they still NEED their fishing establishments to keep the people fed.
>It's not right to kill something with feelings
And at this point you're ignoring the entirety of scientific advancements that came from the experimentation and eventual death of lab animals for the betterment of humanity. Which is something I never hear vegans talk about much for some reason. The medical world is 100% indebted to animal testing (and as vegans would say, murder). So think about that next time you head to the hospital. Be sure to tell your doctor that you don't want to be treated with anything medication or equipment that in one way or another came from animal murder.
Simply, eat what you want. But don't be that faggot who acts above someone because of what you eat. Because it's at that moment that you stop being normal, and start being an ignorant faggot.
Now can we stop talking about this shit?
>>36459519
Actually the United States is one of the worst countries for waste management. Have you seen the giant fucking "shit lakes" where they store animal manure? Pic related. That's one of them. And only one. That shit seeps into the nearest river or if a nearby river floods, it takes all that shit with it and it's washed into the ocean, killing lots of fish in the process. There are many shit lakes throughout the US and if a river swallows one of them, it's considered a natural disaster because of how badly it fucks with the quality of the water. Look it up if you don't believe me.
>>36459449
BR BR HUE HUE HUE causes 100% of deforestation. animal agriculture didn't cause any of it. if someone gets shot for their wallet then poverty wasn't the cause of death
>>36459631
By buying meat you're giving people money for deforestation, people dont just cut down forests for no reason
>>36458967
JUST
>>36459608
I don't think there's anything wrong with being vegan. Your choice is your choice. That's why I said earlier that we need to stop trying to force people and just spread awareness (in a way that is not obnoxious.)
The only thing I don't agree with is when you said it's not more sustainable. When, it's been proven that it is more sustainable. To feed one vegan for a year, a person needs 1/7th of an acre of land, whereas a person who eats meat, dairy, eggs, and vegetables needs 18x the amount of land. If you can grow crops to feed the animals that we kill for meat, you can grow crops to feed humans. It's that simple.
>>36459696
I meant anything wrong with not being vegan. ^
Vegan logic:
>if I don't eat meat I save animals ;^)
Reality:
>Plant foods industry is run by meat eaters, farms and logistics and stores are run by meat eaters. Modern civilization is run by meat eaters. Get rekt fagets
>>36459631
They are clearing the rain forests to make room for more factory farms or more farms to grow crops for the cows/pigs. The other 10% is used for paper, oil pipelines, tar sands, etc.
>>36458944
Because im already vegan
>>36459734
High five!
>>36458967
lmao people say this guy looks shit ?
Yeah he isnt Jeff Seid tier, but that some decent gains right there
>>36459688
i don't buy brazilian meat you fuckin genius
>>36459608
No one is arguing against industrial agriculture as a whole, cos we have a lot of people to feed. But animals release a lot of greenhouse gases, more so than transport. That's why I dont eat meat. I dont really give a fuck about how a chicken feels.
>>36459748
Good for you then bro, but a lot of beef eaten in America is brazilian. Regardless of deforestation beef in particular releases a whole lot of greenhouse gases wherever its grown
>>36459449
>Animal agriculture causes 51% of the world's emission of greenhouse gases.
it makes a big contribution but i really don't see the point in lying about it
Should a lion feel guilty for slaughtering a gazelle?
Why should people?
>>36458944
>whats /fit/ excuse for not going vegan yet?
Inevitable meaninglessness of life
Meat slowly but surely becoming next to cigarettes the only true way of expressing raw lust for life anymore
Everything else is filler
>>36459782
>a lot of beef eaten in America is brazilian
a lot of america is brazilian. pointing out that south americans are destroying the rainforest is as relevant as pointing out that poachers who take meat are driving species towards extinction
>>36459783
Source?
Here's mine: http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6294
>>36458944
I literally can barely get .8g/lb protein eating meat 3 meals a day, and drinking whey isolate.
Not vegan, but I'm trying to be a bit more conscious of what I put into my body(cutting down on red meat, dairy, still eating poultry). I'm not sure if I could ever get rid of meat entirely.
He honestly looks like shit
he actually makes me want to consume more meat to avoid looking like that
>>36459802
What about the emissions aspect though?
>>36459855
It's good that you're trying to be more conscious of what you put in your body. :)
>>36459696
You say proven, so go ahead and prove it. Show me one country that has done it. Because what you're saying is in theory it works. But that's what people said about Communism, until it was attempted in practice and we found it was fucked up. I'm not talking about a small population farm town. I'm talking a country of millions of people. The theory sounds fine, it's the practice I doubt. And until it's implemented, nothing is proven.
>>36459759
Soooo, your reason for veganism is global warming? If your concern is animals releasing greenhouse gases, then wouldn't you be in favor of mass hunting then? And those corpses have to be put to use otherwise they'll decay and emit more gases.
Also, Humans as a species above 7 billion emit a shit load of greenhouse gases, so are you in favor of Population Control? Or is it more of a "As long as it's not me" type of deal?
For all of those who don't like the way vegan gainz looks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGNw9ppbGwk
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNSNSsdiev4
Brian Turner and Job Venus are both vegan bodybuilders who look a lot better and have way more gains.
>>36459911
Jon^
>>36459894
Id be in favour of culling farm stocks of cattle yeah. Wild animals dont do damage to the environment, they're part of keeping ecosystems in check which allows enough plants to grow that co2 is absorbed. Population control isn't something I'm in favour of, we can live sustainably if we stop eating meat and do a couple other things. Most estimates say the population will probably level off at around eleven billion people, which is definitely possible to support
>>36459784
Because lion can only digest meat, and people are not even close to being a predator/meat eater. Humans have only started eating meat 2 million years ago, before that we only ate fucking fruits.
> " hurr durr we are meat eaters".
Ever tried to bite into a living animal and rip off its flesh?
Oh it wouldnt work? Your teeth would fucking hurt afterwards?
It would take hours and hours to chew that meat?
But anon thats what real carnivores do, why cant you?
OH WOW WHAT A COINCIDENCE, I GUESS YOU ARE NOT AN ACTUAL MEAT EATER WHAT A FUCKING SURPRISE.
>>36459950
That image is shit
>>36459894
There are green farmers in Detroit who only use vegetable composting to make their soil fertile. They have 2.5 acres of land and in a year, they produce about 14,000 pounds of food. Whereas a grass-fed cattle ranch in California has around 950 acres and the ranchers themselves report that they can produce about 80,000 pounds of plate ready meat. If we used all that land, those 950 acres of cattle land to produce vegetables, there could potentially produce 5,320,000 pounds of food, versus the 80,000 pounds of meat.
>>36459947
>Wild Animals don't do damage to the environment.
Nigga what. You're making a lot of claims without supporting them.
At this rate I could literally oppose every point with "studies indicate".
>>36459994
>measuring food in pounds
>not realizing that a pound of beef has many many times more calories than a pound of vegetables
>>36460011
I mean yeah, if you introduce an invasive species or remove predators from the food chain they do and then people need to step in to put it back in balance, but if they're part of a full ecosystem they don't. I would post specific studies and so on but I'm on mobile. You cant deny that natural ecosystems arent bad for natural ecosystems though
>>36460062
>durrrr hurrr balance and harmony
>>36458944
Name one reason to go vegan. "Muh animal cruelty" doesn't count.
>>36459994
So, you have a theory...and extremely small scale potential.
So you need to stop saying something is proven before it is. Also, you haven't proven how island nations that already focus on agriculture are going to support their populations without fishing. Because if you're arguing that will just ship the food, then it's the same issue we have now with transport.
Finally, you need to stop using pounds as a measurement when we're talking about billions of people. 1 pound of "food" isn't constant in terms of nutrition. Take an "average" 2000cal diet. We're talking roughly 14000000000000 calories. "Pounds" don't do that number justice. So please address that next.
>>36459608
>"ethical methods should be enforced"
>ethical
>killing
pick one
>>36460061
A pound of beef yields 1,137 calories.
A pound of corn has 1,656 calories. Your argument is invalid.
>>36460108
One pound of processed corn
theres nothing wrong with going vegan, more people should do it
fyi for the meateaters, if more people would go vegan that would mean meat prices would drop and more meat would be avaible for you
>>36460082
Sick argument dude. If you have a balanced ecosystem then wild animals dont contribute to global warming, its only when you let grazing animals get out of control (like in the animal agriculture industry) that they become an issue and humans need to intervene
>>36460062
Define "natural".
Because it sounds like you're relying on your high school ecology class right now. And that breaks it down for simplicity sake. Industrialization wasn't artificial. It came as a natural progression. But it would seem that your version of "natural" simply means "sans human intervention", which implies humans somehow defunct the system.
And by that logic, even switching to farm only production would defunct the "natural" ecosystem, and therefore cause issues.
I like how meat tastes. I value my own advancement over that of beings with less potential. I feel like ethics are not absolute and a result of personal feelings, upbringing and cultural influence. Being a good or bad person is subjective and it is not my goal to be either.
>>36460129
A pound of "processed" soy beans has 2024 calories.
>>36460108
>Ignoring nutritional relevance
Calories are 1 thing, macros are another. 1 pound of corn isn't nutritionally equal to 1 pound of meat.
Your argument meets essentially 1 of 4 base requirements.
>>36460151
By natural I basically only mean an ecosystem where grazing species are kept in check (cos the other dude said that if I was anti meat because of global warming I should be in favor of mass hunting of all animals). If the grazing animals are kept to a reasonable degree and keep eating seeds and shitting them out elsewhere, and fertilising the ground by doing that, then they aren't an issue and provide a net positive in terms of the number of plants that grow because of them and then soak up co2
>>36460061
Calories VS Nutrient Intake. . whats more important. . or calories from meat vs calories from fruit and veggies . . is their variety of nutrient composition beetween animal species compared to that of varied fruits and veggies ?
>>36460168
You dumb nog, you don't eat the entire plant. A pound of corn is not comparible to a pound of meat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQev8MC6aI
The supermutant vs Green Goblin
>>36460131
>Supply and Demand
In what world does less supply and less demand reduce cost?
High demand = high supply = reduce prices to cycle supply.
It's why collectibles are expensive. low supply, and few buyers mean high prices.
>>36460094
This can explain better than I can.
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/549
That's all about sustainability.
>>36460191
You keep saying CO2, which is fine...it's a greenhouse gas afterall. But it's not the ONLY one. Which is why the population control point was brought up. Because the CO2 plant cycle doesn't take into account methane. Which you could argue is less extreme of a greenhouse gas, yet it's the most prevalent in turns of cattle per your previous point. But that doesn't seem to be an issue for you for some reason. Especially when we're talking about several billion (and growing) gassy humans.
>>36460193
Okay. A pound of plate-ready corn has 1872 calories whereas a pound of beef has 1137.
>>36459783
Damn those fugitives
>>36459696
>>36459713
>nothing wrong with not being vegan
Except that it's destroying the environment, overburdening the health care system, and causing the torture and death of billions of animals every year. Aside from that, it's just fine, and everyone should get a thumbs up for being awesome.
>>36460263
So you admit your argument is flawed
>>36460300
No. It still has significantly more calories than a pound of beef. Just not as much as previously thought.
>>36460294
Shhhh. I agree with you. I'm just trying to placate the non-vegans.
>>36460237
>What is bias and how does it work?
Dude, look at that source critically. More than 50% of their "sources" aren't scientific. Nor do they cite much to help the cause. Even the PDF link at the bottom is a joke, and does the same shit as the first article. No cited scientific studies. Fuck, it even quotes Shakespeare because it fits their message. No independent studies cited, no references available to non-associated businesses.
That entire link is basically 1 big confirmation bias piece.
This shit doesn't help anyone. The whole "it's a dot org" thing only works in a classroom environment, and only if the teacher is dumb. It works even less when used outside of Academia, when claims about science needs to be backed by science...not a Poet from the 1500's.
I don't think the intent was bad, but it didn't help anything. If anything it makes it look bad that people reference echo chambers like that to try to inform.
>>36460257
>>36460257
Methane is a more serious greenhouse gas, which is why we should stop farming animals cos they release a lot of it. The reason methane isn't a problem with natural-sized ecosystems is because the population stays roughly constant and the half-life of methane is around eight years, which is a little under the life span of an average grazer, so you dont have a build up of methane in the atmosphere over the generations cos the population stays pretty small. The ammount of methane produced by livestock animals currently is unsustainable, even if the population of them was kept constant from right now. Its too much methane. The reason I'm talking about plants reabsorbing co2 is cos co2 has a much longer half life so it has more potential for buildup cos it isn't decaying, so we need stuff to soak it up. We probably will level off at around 11 billion people, and humans dont produce enough methane that human methane alone would contribute significantly to global warming. Again, I'm on my phone so I cant post sources rn but this is all from research I did for a paper about over population, you can google the facts
cant even get mad at this guy anymore.
after seeing his wife video, his birthday video, and a few others he's just so genuinely pathetic and broken
>>36458944
You mean your bf, right OP?
>>36460448
Vegans fart more thouguh, it has been studied.
>>36460448
11 billion humans producing multiple greenhouse gases is less of a worry than current populations of cattle.
That's the claim right? So when you can get around to it, go ahead and make a thread and post the link that proves it.
>>36460410
I'm not so good at the sustainability argument, I have way better sources for the health aspect of it. Health is what I usually focus, that and the environment. The UN reported that everyone will need to eat less meat, dairy and eggs and that animal agriculture is the main source of greenhouse gas emissions. I have plenty of good sources on that too. The above article was a quick google search, I didn't do nearly the amount of research that I usually do. If you want to challenge me on the health aspect, go for it. I have a ton of information on that from reputable sources.
>>36460294
> Except that it's destroying the environment
Hyperbole
> overburdening the health care system
Hyperbole
> Causing the torture and death of billions of animals every year
Hyperbole
I wonder why nobody takes you seriously .. hmm ..
>>36458944
I'm not retarded
That's my excuse
![10460477_700100333417759_3020384176749067165_n[1].jpg_oh=8574e25de9811a94e032a1e9f0cc61ac&oe=574A8B93.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7agy4IL.jpg "10460477_700100333417759_3020384176749067165_n[1].jpg_oh=8574e25de9811a94e032a1e9f0cc61ac&oe=574A8B93.jpg")
>>36460401
That's not how you win. This is the best case scenario of how a conversation with your approach goes.
>Vegan: Hey there, friend! I just like to be vegan! It's cool if you don't want to be! But what do you think? Think you might want to stop eating meat and dairy? Hehe, come on. Totally cool if you don't want to though! :-) <3
>Meat-eater: Hehe, that's cool, I respect that, but I can't give up my cheese and bacon, hehe :-) that's really nice that you're doing it though! hehe! <3
>Vegan: Hehe, aww, okay, that's fine :-) you're awesome!
And you've saved nothing and no one and only made someone feel good about doing the wrong thing. The most effective way to raise awareness is to just tell people they're being an asshole and let them deal with it. They'll either realize it's not a personal choice as it effects everyone and then make changes in their diet and habits, or they'll say fuck you right back, but the ones who say fuck you were going to say fuck you no matter what you say, because they're assholes.
>>36460488
No, I'm not saying "all we need to do is stop eating meat". We need to research and invest in and use renewables too, but we should still stop eating meat. It isn't one or the other.
>>36459080
/thread
>>36460457
Eating man meat isn't vegan, breh
>>36458944
Veganism is like slavery. We all know it is bad but none of us will stop until we have a real reason beside "muh cows"
>>36460515
lol
sounds like somebody (You) has a victim complex
newsflash
nobody cares about your opinions at all, the picture you posted is pretty accurate - let people do what they want and fuck you for trying to oppress people
>>36460515
After seeing the multiple threads about vegans, vegan hate, etc. I just realized that /fit/ is not going to change. You can post all you want about how it's better for you (with real sources), how it's better for the environment, etc. and they are never going to listen because they think all vegans are weak faggots.
>>36460515
Basic logic says attacking somebody on a topic is actually the #1 way to ensure they never change their mind, in fact it causes them to entrench in their own ideology more.
So all you're accomplishing is causing people to shut their minds off to veganism even more.
Good job.
>>36460492
Sure, go ahead.
Prove to me that the simple existence of meat (of all or any kind) and dairy (of any variety) and eggs in a strictly balanced diet is inherently and indisputably more harmful to overall health than a balanced diet that contains either 2 to zero of the previously mentioned food sources.
And for good measure, throw the harmful effects of honey in a diet in for the non-vegan diet as well, since that's another one that vegans don't consume.
For reference, off -hand that's about 9 independent food sources to claim detrimental effects on health, as well as multiple combinations of those 9 sources in a diet. Without counting the studies that show the far superior overall health of a fully vegan diet.
So I'll be expecting a minimum of 10 peer-reviewed studies for your reply.
We'll go from there once you present those. I set aside 2 hours for this. So take your time.
>>36460527
But that is what you said though. The Methane produced by 11 billions humans isn't a considerable threat to the environment, but the greenhouse gases from lifestock is.
That was the entire point. I'm waiting for the source on that.
>>36460562
Actually, I've been trying to get "real sources" this whole thread. I find it suspicious that they don't exist.
These "sources" tend to be "studies" payed for by pro-vegan organizations masquerading as "sustainability/green" activists. That creates a textbook conflict of interest in a scientific sense, and calls into questions the methods used and conclusions achieved.
It has nothing to do with being weak. It has everything to do with integrity. If you can't prove your point with unbiased science, then you don't have a worthy point.
This is why so much of Pro-Vegan information is emotional propaganda. Less informed people disregard the absence of the scientific method in favor of "Muh Feels". This is the platform veganism has taken, and it doesn't convince me of anything positive.
>>36460574
>Basic logic says attacking somebody on a topic is actually the #1 way to ensure they never change their mind
When it comes to stubborn people, there's nothing you can do to make them change their mind. Anything you say, any way you say it, the answer is going to be "fuck you, I like things the way they are, I'm not going to change." They're not who you're trying to convince.
Reasonable people, upon learning that they're contributing to something bad, are more likely to feel guilt over their actions and attempt to make changes to their behavior. Being direct and honest works on those people. Look at VG's comment section and see all the "you inspired me to go vegan" comments. Those are people that understand what they're doing is wrong and are willing to change how they eat and buy products. Inbetween those comments you'll see a bunch of "lol vegan faggot u need meet." Those people will either gradually accept what they're hearing if they keep listening, or they'll simply never accept it. The ones that don't accept it are philosophical dead-ends and they don't matter. Just keep calling them out for being an asshole and let everyone else see how much of a cock they make of themselves.
Vegans will go crazy when a NFL footballer or other jacked sports freak who built his size while dabbling in many years of meat consumption/steroids comes out and says he is now a vegan. They will say shit like omg! look how big he is! Look how big his muscles are and he is vegan! Yessss weeee winnn! Youuu looose!
>>36460715
To be fair, meat eaters use the same people for a slightly different argument.
>roid like a motherfucker for years
>builds a bunch of muscle
>"checkmate, VEGANS. You could NEVER be as muscular as THIS on a vegan diet! This is the result of eating meat!"
>>36460685
attempting to guilt trip people because they don't share the same ideals as you makes you the asshole
calling people an asshole because they do something that you don't like makes you an asshole
stop being an asshole, asshole
>>36460685
How come you're speaking about a dietary choice like the Zealots defend the Crusades?
You're speaking from a place of inherent higher ground. As if those that don't agree with you are objectively wrong, and if they don't accept that position, then you consider them "philosophical dead-ends" and disregard their agency. But despite doing that, you feel justified to call yourself and those that follow suite "reasonable people".
At the very least...you're as morally bankrupt as the people you disregard. Possibly worse from what you've demonstrated here.
>>36459745
he does look like shit tho.
>>36460611
An average dairy cow produces 400 litres of methane gas a day (google how much methane does a cow produce). Cows live 15 years on average, and there are 1.5 billion cows on earth today. This means the current cow population produces 400*365*15*1.5*10^9=3285000000000000 litres of gas. An average human produces 1.4 litres of methane gas a day (again google how much methane does a human produce), average lifespan is 71 years, so humans at an 11 billion population produce 399091000000000. This is only a bit more than cows, and cos its humans shitting in toilets we can control the methane much better than cows shitting in the open and ensure it doesn't get out. Also your argument seems to be "humans produce methane too so we might as well just release double the ammount into the atmosphere".
>>36460515
Animals don't have rights.
>>36460786
The obvious answer then is to put methane scrubbers on indoor farms. Hell, if it could pump into natural gas lines it might even be profitable. But even if you just burned it, it would produce 1 mol CO2 for every mol of methane, which is much better.
>>36458944
What a non issue. I don't even eat meat every day. Maybe once a week, another meal is fish and then some eggs and milk spread during the week. It's called having a balanced diet, without falling into extremes.
>>36460562
Newsflash my gay friend, the majority of the world -- I.E. 99.5% -- is not vegan. (that is the actual statistic btw)
> muh /fit/ doesn't know better
> muh u guys r just stubbornz thats y
>>36460786
Cattle: “Beef” cattle slaughtered at 18 months young; dairy cows slaughtered at 4 to 5 years young; Natural life span: 18 to 25+ years
Veal Calves: Slaughtered at 16 weeks young; Natural life span: 18 to 25+ years
Since we're just pulling shit off google, your math takes into account the natural lifespan of cattle. But we're talking about lifestock cattle's effects on the environment. So, in short your math is wrong. That's apples to oranges.
Nice try though.
>>36460581
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/22/2/286.full
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(83)91557-X/abstract
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777.short
http://dcjournal.ca.www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.3148/64.2.2003.62
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/83787
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/110296
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002822307020731
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1607S.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987700913215
>>36460878
don't care not gonna read
>>36460750
>don't share the same ideals
Most people do. They just don't live by their principles.
Classic prank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG4WhppBNCM
>"ooh, I love sausages, give me some"
>okay, let me just grind up this pig so that you can have your beloved food
>"what are you doing?! stop that! hurting animals is wrong!"
Next day you can be sure they went back to the store and bought some sausage. You know why "humane meat" exists? Because people don't want to imagine the shit that happens to farm animals really happens, and don't mind spending a little extra to pretend they aren't involved with it without having to give anything up. People know it's wrong, they just don't give a shit because they don't have to see it happening or think about it. Probably the same reason everyone's asshole turns red when a vegan pops up and reminds them what they're doing instead of letting them live in that bubble.
>>36460772
>How come you're speaking about a dietary choice like the Zealots defend the Crusades?
Because dietary choices affect more than your taste buds. If you pay to make our planet uninhabitable and to torture and kill animals, you're not a good person. Those are not kind, respectable things to do. You shouldn't get a pat on the back for being a dickhead who "just has a different point of view and different morals." You know that's bullshit.
>>36459696
>implying that the Earths carrying capacity is not at an overshoot moment.
>humans by all means are intentionally stretching this to the point of exhaustion.
> MFW vegans don't realize how there is no going back. To many people would starve.
>>36460859
Okay, you got me about the lifespan thing, I didnt take that into account. But even if humans put more methane into the atmosphere, does that mean its okay for cattle to pump a fuckton of it into the atmosphere too?
>>36460900
my principle is that if i can't bring myself to kill an animal myself, then i won't eat that animal
4 months ago a hunted down and shot a deer, delivered the killing shot execution-style, tied it to my truck and took it back to my garage where i skinned it, chopped it up, prepared and then cooked it
I stick to my principles. I don't care if other people have different principles than me - why should I? Who are you to say what people should and shouldn't do - you're just some guy who doesn't even lift trying on an anonymous imageboard.
I don't think killing animals or eating meat is wrong, I think it's an inherent and natural part of living on the earth and being a human being.
The only 'bubble' is the one you put yourself in by convincing yourself that you're some kind of habitual jesus. Grow up.
![JeffreyDahmer-StonePhillips[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uPVz5gE.jpg "JeffreyDahmer-StonePhillips[1].jpg")
>>36460962
4 months ago a hunted down and shot a human, delivered the killing shot execution-style, tied it to my truck and took it back to my garage where i skinned it, chopped it up, prepared and then cooked it
those are my principles. who are you to judge me? survival of the fittest
>>36460984
Animals are not people
>>36460984
animals aren't people dumbass
>>36460878
First link and lets see what we got
"Exclusion criteria were: animal studies, case studies with small sample size, studies of Adventists outside of the US and Canada; studies reporting only nutrients, foods, and food groups as dietary exposures; and studies not reporting relevant health outcomes."
>Animal Studies
>Studies not reporting relevant health outcomes
Boy that sure sounds like some cherry picking to me considering the title of the article is "blah blah blah the "HEALTH EFFECTS of Vegan Diets".
Which the article then goes on to define as "strict Vegetarian" and then just goes on to term it as such. Again, suspect.
Not to mention, why is it Adventist?
And finally
> Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to offer additional protection for obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes, and cardiovascular mortality.
Can you spot the word that fucks up that study? I'll quote my post, see if you can spot it.
> inherently and indisputably more harmful to overall health
And I just started with that one.
If the rest of them come out this shitty from the get go, I'm not going to look at all of them.
I just don't get vegans. why wouldn't you eat meat? "those poor animals", what "poor" animals? you're imposing human morals on species that aren't capable of thought.
even if they were, we beat them out. we're the dominant species, why would we suddenly have to go Nature Justice Warrior and stop eating animals?
if you don't want to eat something, that's perfectly fine, if mentally ill people with gender dysphoria can get their genitals mutilated, you can choose to not eat food. just don't pretend it's not weird.
>>36460998
They have the same type of nervous system that we do. They feel pain like we do, they feel emotions like we do. Cows will cry in grief, especially the mothers, after their calves are taken away. Pigs are as intelligent as a three year old human toddler.
Meat tastes good and gives me gains, thats all
>but muh ethics
Don't care, animals aren't people fuck them
>but muh greenhouse
Don't care, I won't live to see any negative effects
>but muh cancer/heart disease
Mind your own health, faggots
>>36461024
Other than perhaps the other great apes, they are non-sapient, lacking self-awareness, genuine judgement, language, and culture. They live without goal, driven by instinctual inclination and physical stimuli.
Cows are retarded, even among animals. To anthropomorphize a fucking cow is an insult to other mammals. You would know this if you had spent any time around cows.
Pigs are smart, but devious devils. Honestly, I'd prefer them destroyed entirely, for they would eat the world to the root if it were within their power. Luckily in the wild they are restricted to areas near rivers and lakes because of their lack of ability to sweat.
>>36461024
>Pigs are as intelligent as a three year old human toddler.
When humans stay at that stage for life we call them burdens, and if we're lucky enough to find the gene that caused it we can abort them.
>>36460104
>so we need to execute this dude, but the chems for leathal injections are expensive... let's just slowly beat him to death with a rock since all killing is unethical and therefore methods of killing are irrelevant.
>>36461024
animals are not people
they are not capable of reasonable thought
once again - trying to guilt trip people. I don't care that animals are capable of feeling pain or if you perceive them to be intelligent. They are lower in the food chain, they are weaker and they will be killed and farmed for their flesh due to their inferiority
Stupid middle-class retard, i'd like to see you go 2 days without food and come face to face with a deer and see which is stronger, wanting to feel superior to other people because of some 'moral' bullshit or primal hunger
>>36461013
You cherry picked information out of the article. xD
"In summary, vegetarians have consistently shown to have lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers across all three prospective cohorts of Adventists. Beyond meatless diets, further avoidance of eggs and dairy products may offer a mild additional benefit. Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to provide some added protection against obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes; and cardiovascular mortality. In general, the protective effects of vegetarian diets are stronger in men than in women."
That is the conclusion of the article.
>>36460878
Onward to the second study and the word estimate is used 4 times before the study even starts. Not to mention the method for this study was a self-assessed fucking questionnaire.
I don't think you understand what we were talking about.This doesn't PROVE anything. Especially when it's self-assessed, not controlled, and doesn't lead to a concrete conclusion.
So far the first two links essentially say "Hey...so...there could be something there. It looks like it, but we can't confirm it."
Again, we're looking for indisputable proof. Not correlations. Not potential.
On to the third.
>>36461100
Other than being of the same species why can't we kill and eat retards and disabled people too? Useless people that lack all of the things you just talked about
>>36461111
Actually, I'm a poor college student. I make under $10k a year because I only have a part-time job so I can focus on school. I rely on student loans to get by.
I've actually gone two days without food before, and I'm....still vegan. I didn't go out and have a huge hamburger as soon as I could afford it. I actually went out and got some watermelon, because, cheap (at least where I live.)
>>36460878
The third is the best one so far.
A sample size of 59 fucking people, just generically labeled "healthy" without defining it, which is apparently 100% cool because they look a mean alteration.
>Although the nutrient(s) causing these blood-pressure changes are unknown
You're fucking with me right? This is three down and not one of them has done what you were supposed to do.
>>36461157
Eating people causes prion disease, which is very bad.
Also, if by "retard" you mean something like down syndrome, they do in fact have everything I described, if on a more limited level. A real vegetable on the other hand, well personally I think we'd be better of killing all of them than waste time pretending there's a person in that meat.
>>36461195
Actually, the first one did, if you had read it thoroughly enough. It compared meat eaters to vegans. But you cherry-picked information out of a full-page article full of statistical analysis to suit your position.
>>36461112
Nigga you just quote the words "may" and "seem".
If I told you your mom MAY have died. What does that mean to you?
If I told you "It seems you have gone blind". What does that mean to you?
Those are words you use when you don't prove something. Nigga we don't say the Speed of Light seems to be some shit. We say it IS something.
We don't say amputation may result in losing a limb. It WILL result in losing a limb.
Your studies don't prove shit. They at best show correlations. Which is far from indisputable proof.
>>36461157
i'm primarily one of the guys arguing against these agitators, but cannibalism among same-species often results in nervous system degenerative illnesses
>>36461175
you're missing the point, when you're in a situation where you can choose whether to eat meat or die I can guarantee that you'll choose to stay alive - which is what exactly what animals do every day, try and stay alive, because this is just another instinct which we are all driven by
you're just another animal except you have become so absorbed with your sheltered lifestyle you think to do away with eating things which your ancestors had to eat to survive
everyone is nine missed meals away from being an 'animal'
>>36461239
That study has over 70 sources. You are cherry-picking again, desu. It also said, "In summary, vegetarians have consistently shown to have lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers across all three prospective cohorts of Adventists." CONSISTENTLY. HAVE CONSISTENTLY shown lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers. Try again.
>>36460938
Does that mean it's ok to just let humans continue to reproduce at a crazy rate to which we become a huge toll on the environment?
Because it goes right back to that "I have a problem with something, as long as that problem isn't me."
>>36461250
And MY point is that in 2016, we don't have to worry about that. I, as an American citizen, don't have to worry about starving. There's plenty of programs that help people find enough food. Programs such as TANF, food stamps, the food bank. You don't even need to prove your income at the food bank, they just give you a certain amount of food every month. Even if I had no access to food whatsoever, there are things that grow in the wild that are edible. Berries, for example. That's what our ancestors ate BEFORE they were smart enough to hunt animals. Roots, berries, fruit, etc.
>>36461306
I honestly dont know, bro. There should be larger pushes to educate people in sub saharan Africa and in the indian subcontinent to have fewer kids, yeah. But the fact that humans do damage to the environment doesn't mean beef doesn't damage the environment.
>>36461280
See, here's the thing though.
Refraining from adding the next sentence in a study because it proves someones point doesn't help your cause. How far are you going to pull back to meet your cause dude?
Also, nice job avoiding the Vegan-Vegetarian switch. But I guess you'll just remove that word for your next post too.
>>36461356
The full summary:
In summary, vegetarians have consistently shown to have lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers across all three prospective cohorts of Adventists. Beyond meatless diets, further avoidance of eggs and dairy products may offer a mild additional benefit. Compared to lacto-ovo-vegetarian diets, vegan diets seem to provide some added protection against obesity, hypertension, type-2 diabetes; and cardiovascular mortality. In general, the protective effects of vegetarian diets are stronger in men than in women. At present, there are limited prospective data on vegetarian dietary patterns and body weight change, obesity and neurological disorders. Large dietary intervention trials on the effects of vegetarian diets on obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular outcomes are warranted to make meaningful recommendations for nutritional planning, assessment, and counseling.
>>36461330
I agree. But I don't think that being a stain on the environment allows you to damn another stain.
We're all bad, and the only thing we have to fall back on is "at least I'm less of a problem than that, so lets fix that and ignore this" type of mentality.
I don't know if that justification is enough to sway a planet wide dietary shift.
>>36461375
You keep posting this like it's going to change the language they used. I read it. Multiple times now that you keep posting it. And instead of addressing my points, you keep posting it like my issues with it will magically go away if I read it until I stop having issues with it.
How about, get this, instead of posting it again...you address why they used the language they did. Why they word-swapped. Or anything else I said?
Is it because you don't know enough about it, so you keep posting the same paragraph hoping that the error is on me and not you, or the language, or the conclusion?
>>36461157
muh false equivalency
you realise you can't win this argument right?
humans are intrinsically worth more than animals on a magnitude of basically infinity.
trying to equate the two is only highlighting the flaws in your own cognition.
>>36461325
I don't have to worry about starving either
And i don't have to become vegan, i'm under absolutely no obligation at all and veganism is a choice which you only undertake due to your morals. I have no such morals
Same bullshit, different day. Another DYEL vegan coming onto a fitness forum that they perceive to be full of 'problems' and trying to preach about their high ground.
You'll always be weaker than me, you'll always be too scared to provide for yourself (living off loans, being unable to eat meat because your mind is crippled by false empathy) and you'll always spend the entirety of your time fighting an uphill battle because you're the one constantly causing fights
Stop crying like a fucking child and go lift some weights. That's why we're all here and you're not ever going to convince anyone of your warped vegetable fetish by typing extremely quickly and posting the same fucking thread on here at least once a week
Now fuck off
>>36461439
That's my only post except this one in this thread you retard, im not even a vegan, it was a genuine question
>>36458944
>want to promote people to be vegan
>post picture of awkwardly shaped DYEL green goblin
Maybe if you posted a Vegan with an impressive body people would take you more seriou--- oh wait, there isn't a natty vegan with an impressive body.
>>36461239
>Nigga you just quote the words "may" and "seem".
Not familiar with science writing, are you?
>>36458980
he only does 8 hour arm workouts and nothing else.
>>36461439
>humans are intrinsically worth more than animals on a magnitude of basically infinity.
for you
>>36461479
> That's my only post except this one in this thread you retard
how is this relevant
> im not even a vegan
how is this relevant
> it was a genuine question
how is what I typed not a response to what you typed?
wtf?
>>36461394
Maybe you're right. I think there should be more effort in schools in places where people produce 5 kids to tell them to not have so many, but ultimately I doubt a worldwide dietary shift is going to happen
i am a vegan since the start of this year. It's not that hard. I have a 1rep max of 1 pl8 with ohp , 200lbs on bench , 245 x 5 on squat and 315 x 1 on diddlys.
>>36461517
oh no sweety, for approximately 99.5% of the worlds population who aren't vegan actually.
haha
because I like meat and enjoy eating the carcasses of dead animals, like our ancestors did.
Nothing you can do about it faggot.
>>36461455
I actually didn't make this post. I'm the one who said earlier that we shouldn't force people to go vegan, just spread information and awareness.
I'm living off loans because I want to keep my GPA at a 4.0, and if I had to work, I wouldn't have as much time to study. Poor grades=no medical school.
Most of the reason I'm vegan is because of the health effects, and the other part is environmental. I don't think there's anything wrong with occasional hunting and eating the meat that you kill yourself, but the conditions in factory farming are horrible. I've seen cows walking around with bloody udders from the pumping machines. If you want to hand pump, fine. That is more ethical. But the machines are unnecessarily painful and can cause infections.
I've made exactly one vegan thread on /fit/ and it went about as well as this one, so I haven't posted any more. But I will comment on other threads if someone else makes one.
>>36459292
>115g carbohydrates
WOOOOOOOWWWWIIEEEEE M8
>>36461500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7UIWRf5-B4
Jon Venus. Your argument is invalid.
vegan brah checking in
>>36461576
Nice bod, brah.
>>36461521
because you acted like I was arguing with you, I just saw the thread on the front page and asked a question of why we don't just eat useless people who just waste resources
>>36461634
what fuck you are talking about wow
you made a post on an imageboard
i replied to said post on said imageboard.
now you're acting indignant because I replied to your post?
i dont even
please leave and stay leave.
>>36461503
Yeah dude. Remember when LIGO announce they they MAY have detected G-Waves, and Physicists all over the world were ecstatic because it SEEMS like Einstein's MAY have been right about General Relativity?
You remember that?
Or Remember when NASA released the picture from New Horizons and said the probe MAY have took pictures of Pluto? Yeah?
Or what about near the end of WW2 when the world found out that Japan MAY have been bombed and it SEEMS like the war is over?
Or what about 9/11, when the news showed footage of a the planes that MAY have flown into the towers, and it SEEMS like it's an attack on US soil? Remember that?
Because boy..those things may or may not happened. who knows. It's not like they talk about those things with certainty. Everything is pretty much up in the air because who really knows right? It's not like we can prove those things. We just kinda have to..you know...go with it.
>>36461536
>intrinsically, infinitely more valuable
>subjectively
not really instrinsic then is it
>>36461676
This. Thank you.
>>36461684
uhh yeah sure nice argument.
hey there are people who don't believe in blood transfusions
i guess blood transfusions only subjectively work.
>>36461652
>>36461439
>muh false equivalency
>you realise you can't win this argument right?
>humans are intrinsically worth more than animals on a magnitude of basically infinity.
>trying to equate the two is only highlighting the flaws in your own cognition.
Do you not read what you type? I told you I'm not even a vegan, I asked a question of why we don't just eat useless people too and you got all butthurt about it. Fucking retard, you're worse than any vegan I've ever talked to
>>36461676
I hope you're being stupid on purpose. You're comparing findings vs interpretations.
>In summary, vegetarians have consistently shown to have lower risks for cardiometabolic outcomes and some cancers across all three prospective cohorts of Adventists.
This is an objective finding. In their interpretation of the finding, they say what the data suggests, that vegan diets offer more protection against disease than vegetarian diets, which offer more protection than non-vegetarian diets.
>>36458944
I like meat and you have to put so much effort in to make vegan food taste good. Plus its expensive as fuck
>>36460878
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
Not the guy, but if you compare the HR from the adventist study to people following a non-retarded omnivorous diet (Alternate-Healthy Eating Index), the differences aren't that great.
Adventist:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/table/nutrients-06-02131-t008/
Non-retarded diet (+ pic related):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3127516/
Although AHS2 had more participants.
>>36461536
There's actually about 2.5% that are vegan.
>>36461706
you're literally talking about something subjective and claiming it's objectively truth
>>36461736
oh my fucking god retard
let me walk you through this.
> Other than perhaps the other great apes, they are non-sapient, lacking self-awareness, genuine judgement, language, and culture. They live without goal, driven by instinctual inclination and physical stimuli.
> Cows are retarded, even among animals. To anthropomorphize a fucking cow is an insult to other mammals. You would know this if you had spent any time around cows.
> Pigs are smart, but devious devils. Honestly, I'd prefer them destroyed entirely, for they would eat the world to the root if it were within their power. Luckily in the wild they are restricted to areas near rivers and lakes because of their lack of ability to sweat.
THIS IS WHAT YOU REPLIED TO
> Other than being of the same species why can't we kill and eat retards and disabled people too? Useless people that lack all of the things you just talked about
THIS IS WHAT YOU TYPED
> muh false equivalency
THIS IS MY RESPONSE
HOLY FUCK, HOW IS THIS SO HARD
>>36461757
"Aren't that great" but they are lower. I will take having a slightly lower risk for heart disease, cancer, and overall mortality.
>>36461810
Not really; Cancer mortality was lower in the non-retarded diet vs Adventist males; CVD mortality was about the same; Adventist males won total mortality though.
>>36459384
>watch this
>expect epic 'after', with him being ripped as fuck
>it never happens
Why would i be inspired by a faggot doing shitty pullups?
>>36461793
... humans rating human life as more valuable than animal life is .. subjective?
i think this is one of the edgiest statements I've ever read.
>>36461849
That's...not what the study said?
>>36461862
how could it be objective you sperg? it's not value in a sense like money. it's the subjective value you attribute to something.
>>36458944
Just because there's alternatives to meat doesn't mean you have to eat it. If I see you sitting down eating lentils should I ask why your not eating broccoli, if someone's eating chicken should I ask why they are not eating steak? If I see you at a vegetarian restaurant with your dad's wife boyfriend should I smack the cum out of your mouth and tell you to go to a burger place?
>i like meat
>i like meat products
>i like how easy it is to get my protein requirement, and with variety to boot
>i actually have no sympathy for animals unless i own them or it's a cat
...once humanity starts eating cats like poultry, they've gone too far.
>>36461888
What did the study say? Maybe I missed something
>>36461905
because to the majority of the worlds population it is not subjective.
it defies human psychology to fit an animal with more moral value than a human
what you're saying is so idiotic its unfathomable, and honestly raises questions about your own mental state.
just think about what you're trying to argue, rather than just arguing for the sake of arguing.
you're saying its acceptable and typical for a human to value human life less than animals.
i mean really just contemplate your angle of attack here.
even a vegan -- for all their fucking bullshit mumbo jump herp derp -- in reality would not save a fucking cow over a human life.
>>36458944
>>36459192
Because I don't want to become an insufferable cunt that feels the need to convert everyone to my shitty dietary restrictions.
Honestly no wonder VG got catfished, his shitty personality means he can't even pull virtual women.
>>36461933
>to the majority of the world population it is not subjective
if the majority of the world thinks red is the best color, red is not intrinsically, infinitely the best color as an objective truth. don't use words you don't understand.
>>36461960
again, going back to my blood transfusion example.
some people don't believe in blood transfusions.
are blood transfusions therefore only subjectively effective?
>>36461928
For cancer: Vegetarians experienced a modest, 8% risk reduction for overall-cancer. For cancer-specific sites, vegetarians had approximately half the risk of developing colon cancer. Also, vegetarians had 23% risk reduction for cancer of the gastrointestinal tract. Vegetarians experienced a 35% risk reduction for prostate cancer compared to non-vegetarians. Similarly, vegetarians tended to have lower risk for cancer of the respiratory tract and overall-cancer. No significant differences between the diet groups were found for other site-specific cancers including lung, breast, and uterine.
For all mortality/ischemic heart disease/cerebrovascular disease: In all three cohorts, vegetarians experienced a 10% to 20% decreased in all-cause mortality. Similarly, vegetarians had 26% to 68% lower risks of mortality from ischemic heart disease, cardiovascular disease, and cerebrovascular disease. Vegetarians experienced a 48% risk reduction in mortality from breast cancer, and modest risks reduction from other-cause total mortality. No significant risks reduction in cause-specific mortality were found among vegetarians, particularly for cancers of the stomach, colorectal, lung, and prostate.
Hypertension/Diabetes: For hypertension, lacto-ovo-vegetarians experienced 55% lower risks; whereas, vegans had 75% risks reduction when compared to non-vegetarians. Similarly, lacto-ovo-vegetarian and vegan were associated with lower risks of type-2 diabetes. The risks reduction of diabetes for lacto-ovo-vegetarians varied between 38% and 61%; and 47% to 78% for vegans. When stratified by ethnicity, the relative risks reduction for diabetes was greater in blacks than non-blacks when compared with their non-vegetarian counterparts. For all cardiometabolic-related outcomes, vegans had lower risk than lacto-ovo-vegetarians compared to non-vegetarians.
>>36461963
>again, going back to my blood transfusion example.
which didn't make sense to begin with. blood transfusions aren't a philosophical concept.
>>36461976
most people rate human life as more valuable than animal life
some people don't
most people rate blood transfusions as effective
some people don't
subjective or objective?
>>36461983
did you not understand my post or not read it?
>>36462005
my point is the POSSIBLE opinion of about 0.5% of the worlds population doesn't change the fact that humans are intrinsically worth more than animals as some people are just fucking stupid.
the same way blood transfusions are effective regardless of what a religious minority believes because they are fucking stupid.
if you wanna get super literal the exact monetary value of each part of a human is literally worth more than the sum of an animals parts, therefore a human is more valuable than animal.
>>36462053
Um. If ants and bees diet out, humans would be fucked.
If humans diet out, literally nothing bad would happen to this planet.
>>36462053
you're using that word again. you don't know what it means. human value is not a physical object.
how about this, your grandma's life vs my grandma's life. which is more valuable to you? nothing subjective about that, right, there's only one objective answer?
i'm not even part of the animal discussion it was just stupid of you to say that
>>36462053
died^
>>36462119
hello mr literal.
refer to: if you wanna get super literal the exact monetary value of each part of a human is literally worth more than the sum of an animals parts, therefore a human is more valuable than animal.
thanks.
>>36461968
>For cancer: Vegetarians experienced a modest, 8% risk reduction for overall-cancer.
Yeah it's unfortunate the AHEI didn't differentiate between cancer sites; but overall cancer mortality was lower in the AHEI paper. Which I suppose could be confounded by the smaller amounts of participants
>Similarly, vegetarians had 26% to 68% lower risks of mortality from ischemic heart disease, cardiovascular disease, and cerebrovascular disease.
Arh, my bad I was looking at the data from solely AHS2.
But to my defense AHEI lumped both males and females in together. Looking at table 5 and both genders combined, AHEI still beat CVD, IHD, Cerebrovascular assuming all of those fell under CVD mortality in the AHEI paper; but again it suffers from being a smaller sample size.
>Hypertension/Diabetes
Pretty much the same as the cancer issue, the AHEI study was only looking at mortality rather than disease incidence.
Hey guys just started GOAMAD like mr plant man suggested
Problem is I just keep getting fatter
What do I do
>>36462132
>don't be so literal
problem is you tried to use that incredibly subjective opinion as a subjective fact to use for argument purposes
>if you wanna get super literal the exact monetary value of each part of a human is literally worth more than the sum of an animals parts, therefore a human is more valuable than animal.
and that's inherent and infinite value?
>>36461757
>comparing hazard ratios between two different data sets
What does "relative risk" mean to you?
>>36462221
Having Vegan Gainz be the spokesperson for veganism is like having the Westboro Baptist Church be the spokesperson for Christianity.
>subjective vs. objective debates
am i on gaiaonline in 2007?
>>36462248
>What does "relative risk" mean to you?
I'm guessing it's not what I think it means?
>>36462227
Explain your rationale for why human life isn't worth more than animal life.
>>36459950
Lol but we can do that.
>>36462410
Because if the humans died off, literally nothing would happen. The animals and the Earth would be just fine.
On the other hand, if bees went extinct, that would be the end for humanity. The plants that they pollinate wouldn't grow and we'd have very little to eat.
>>36462449
By that rationale Grass or Algae would be the most valuable lives on earth as they are the beginning of most food chains.
>>36461569
I said natty vegan cuck boy.
>>36462283
The results are relative to the the other group(s) in that same data set. They can't be compared to HRs from a completely different data set because that HR is a value relative to the group it's being compared against, and the two data sets are being compared against different groups.
>>36462434
We can't eat meat -safely- without cooking it.
>>36462474
Makes sense.
>>36462449
So a bee is more valuable than a human.
So technically a flower is more valuable than a bee, because without the flower then the bees will die, and subsequently the humans would then die too.
So the flower is the true MVP using your logic model.
Your logic appears to be a sort of reverse pyramid on how we view the world currently, very reductionist and simple.
>>36462477
He is natty. xD If he took steroids, he'd be much bigger.
>>36462495
In which case humans should eat animals over plants as plant lives are more valuable.
>>36462509
You're right. Totally forgot about the flowers.
The flowers/plants are the true MVP, along with the algae. Without them, humans wouldn't exist. So they are fundamental to life on Earth. However, we are not.
>>36459745
he's all arms, that's it.
>>36462520
But decomposing animals provide the sustenance for plants to grow, so by eating the animal you're depriving the plants of nutrients they need to proliferate.
Ultimately, the only correct move is for humans to adopt photosynthesis.
>>36462520
Animals consume way more plants than humans. Therefore, we should eat the plants directly instead of getting them secondhand from animals.
>>36462479
My bad, thanks for that, but wouldn't that be assuming the non-vegetarian Adventists were eating a relatively healthy omni diet?
And, I'm guessing that would be a case of going through each and every paper and seeing the baseline characteristics?
>>36462512
>He is natty. xD If he took steroids, he'd be much bigger.
No, this is the steroid limit of a vegan body builder.
The juice is barely fighting off the estrogen that is slowly turning is asshole into a gaping vagina and his dick into a huge clit.
Look at his pecs, they are slowly morphing into gyno.
You vegan freaks are fucked because of your shitty diet, you sound like feminist.
>>36459786
Underrated
