/Fit/, I need help finding some links to studies or articles.
Basically, my friend fell for the "cardio kills gainz" meme. Apparently, some PT in our gym told him that if you did cardio, you couldn't build muscle. And by PT I mean fat douchebag who did the bare minimum to get that name.
Anyway, I tried to explain how the reason that myth came about was because if you do cardio, then the calories burned obviously can't go to your muscles. I also explained that if he was that worried, he should just eat more to compensate. I also explained that a stronger respiratory system would mean he'd be able to recover from lifting more quickly, and therefore gain more muscle in the long run.
Anyway, he doesn't believe me because some dumbass "PT" claims that thermodynamics apparently doesn't apply.
So, can anybody give me articles or studies that support this?
Thanks /fit/. Help me save my friend from dumbasses masquerading as professionals.
it's true
I mean you can do cardio, but why would you ?
>>36317452
>some dumbass "PT" claims that thermodynamics apparently doesn't apply
It doesn't, or at least not in the way you're overly simplifying it. The intricacies of human anatomy and metabolic function create confounds that are not generally accounted for in the basic consideration of "calories in calories out," to the point where suggesting it is setting someone else up for failure.
Unless one is in a totally controlled laboratory setting monitoring every single function of the body simultaneously throughout the day, you can't account for the shifts in nutrient partitioning due to the various functions occurring. And even then, the numbers don't always translate to outside those controlled settings due to changing energy and hormonal demands that occur in various situations (e.g. being stressed out alters leptin and ghrelin levels and response).
Basically you telling him to do cardio while he is also working on lifting would be the same as telling him to keep lifting, but eat next to nothing. It just sets them up to fuck up their body.
>>36317456
>>36317544
Now, you say that, but that's simply not true. Here's an article I lifted from the stick: (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html). Cardio one day and weights the next doesn't create some sort of magical anti muscle building aura. Humans were literally made to do both. I was hoping for a few more articles supporting that, but I guess the sticky will do for now.
>>36317465
So you don't wind up on a /plg/ thread looking down on people who can run faster than you.
>>36317616
>http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/cardio-and-mass-gains.html
>no sources for information listed
>written by a man with a self-admitted history of unstable behavior and poor judgment in his professional life
Long endurance running/anything will build up lactic acid and spike cortisol levels which cause protein degradation in muscles.
But doing some high intensity for a few minutes to increase cardiovascular health won't hurt you that much, and still is a way to lose calories albeit not as much.
>>36317544
Which means don't train for the Arnold classic the same year you train for Iron Man.
We're talking about normal people here not athletes on the bleeding edge.
30m on the treadmill isn't going to halt amateur progression, Jesus.
>>36317662
As opposed to mysterious "various functions occurring" or "confounds"?
>>36317682
Exactly. THere's a far cry between top level athletes, and a kid who listens to the fat, balding PT who is skinnyfat as fuck.
>>36317682
>We're talking about normal people here not athletes on the bleeding edge
There's a difference between not training on a professional level and intentionally creating sub-optimal conditions to hinder progress. Whether or not you're competing is frankly irrelevant. Gimping your own progress because some random bimbo on facebook says you're less of a man for not running an arbitrary amount is just retarded vanity.
>>36317711
>As opposed to mysterious "various functions occurring" or "confounds"?
Nigga, do you really need someone to list out every single biological function that takes place during basic respiratory metabolism, the processing of food energy, and shit like functional alterations of shifting hormonal states?
Try picking up some biochem and medical texts instead of asking to be spoonfed a handful of articles that may or may not have sources to back them up.
>>36317720
Who said anything about facebook?
And cardio considerations your body to pump more oxygen around your body more efficiently. If you honestly think that there is no way that can help in strength training, get out of my thread. You have nothing to contribute.
>>36317763
What the fuck are you on about? I cited an article, and told you where more could be found (The sticky) and asked for any more. You went on about processes, but didn't even name one.
Instead of whining about medical texts (of which there are fucking millions, literally going back hundreds of years) why don't you supply me with some articles or studies? You know, the ones I fucking asked for? Instead of vague buzzwords that you clearly don't understand?
I asked for texts to back up a very, very, very simple biological fact. Now I have idiots whining about how somehow hormones effect the fact that our bodies need oxygen.
This is why /fit/ is so shit now.
>>36317778
Waaaaah! Waaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
>>36317819
He says, unable to conjure up literally anything to support his argument. Just one process. That would have been enough. Just a single bodily process.
But you can't think of one, can you?
If you're really interested, you should try actually lifting before trying to meme your way through giving people advice.
Fucking retard.
>>36317819
lol tryhard gets shit on and cries
>>36317851
RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>36317452
Have you tried google scholar?
>>36317778
>And cardio considerations your body to pump more oxygen around your body more efficiently. If you honestly think that there is no way that can help in strength training, get out of my thread. You have nothing to contribute.
That's like saying increasing your weight is beneficial for doing cardio because it increases the amount of blood needed to circulate through your system and more blood means more oxygen to everywhere. You being grossly simplifying in one aspect of something doesn't grant you license to bullshit someone else about something you clearly don't know shit about.
>I cited an article, and told you where more could be found (The sticky) and asked for any more
Again, you cited an article containing 0 citations and only self-referential links within the website. You basically found a blog post and are acting like it's some definitive peer-reviewed study.
>You went on about processes, but didn't even name one
Basic cellular maintenance. Response to spiking cortisol levels. Overall functioning of the intestines. High schoolers who passed anatomy can refer to at least these basic processes as reflecting impact on shit like metabolic functioning and nutrient partitioning. I'd list more, but you seem to have trouble visualizing these relative to the argument.
>Instead of whining about medical texts (of which there are fucking millions, literally going back hundreds of years)
So pick up a fucking modern one, you dense fuck. You have access to the internet. Handfuls of studies cherry picked by autists on a malaysian printed t-shirt discussion board are pretty meaningless in the face of books used to teach people who conduct the goddamn studies in the first place.
I mean goddamn, there's being an uneducated idiot and just spewing retarded bullshit because you're not hearing what you want to.
>>36317452
Relatively new lifter here (2months). I'n my limited experience cardio does not kill gains. Since beginning lifting I have been steadily increasing in weight; roughly 12 kilos so far, and I finish each session with a 20 - 30 minute run which has me sweating like a bitch. Essentially I've been building muscle and reducing body fat.
http://www.strengtheory.com/avoiding-cardio-could-be-holding-you-back/
>>36320463
http://strengtheory.com/cardio-hypertrophy/
