SS vs SL5x5
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What is the better beginning program? And is starting from the bar on 5x5 helpful or should a beginner skip that?
>>36212701
SL imo, in the long run. I still think you should add chinups on B, only squat on A and do more than 1x5 for deadlifts. And yeah, skip that bar only bs, but start conservatively.
>>36212701
I think powercleans are useless unless youre an athlete so don't like SS, if I were a beginner again id probably do something more like ICF because I think you have the capacity to recover from more accessory work.
>>36212714
And say I wanted accelerated biceps/triceps growth, what could I add in to help?
>>36212701
Mark is a freedom loving libertarian Texan with decades of experience on both being a lifter and training others.
Mehdi is a scamming Arab with no experience at all.
>>36212732
I don't really give a fuck about who marketed the routine, I only care about the routine.
>>36212727
I don't think you should bother with those, unless you wanna end up with oversized arms (relative to your rest). You are going to stick to that routine for 3-6 months. Worry about arms later if they lag.
But if you REALLY insist, curls on A and dips on B should do it.
Lets say I don't really care about the powerlifting aspect, I just want better aesthetics from starting off skinny, what routine would be optimal?
>>36212779
Probably still SL for a few months. With some less squatting maybe.
>>36212701
Reg Park Beginner Routine is the best
>>36212701
>>36212779
SS. SL is shit (the routine is ok, the program is shit)
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program
How does this routine look?
Also should I add a 4th exercise on workout B?
>>36213210
Bumping with a question
Whey only after work out, or whey every day?
ICF is best beginner program, /thread.
>>36213379
Whey every day, it is a food and you want to keep your macros constant during the week.
>>36212714
>do SL but not SL at all
Dude...
>>36213434
>>36213214
Well imo:
A:
binch 5x5
highbar squat 5x5
row 5x5
curls (for the girls) 3x8-10
B:
deadlift 3x5
ohp 5x5
chins/lat pulldowns (if too weak) 5x5
dips/leg supported dips if too weak 3x8-10
Add weight every workout on 5x5 lifts. When you can't complete 5x5 on something, switch to 3x5 on that lift. When you stall on 3x5 deload by 10-15% and switch back to 5x5. After stalling 2-3 times on most lifts change program to some u/l p/p split with varied intensity (candito novice strength-hypertrophy for example).
Done
>>36213548
Chin ups and dippies on same day?
Seems counter productive.
>>36213573
Why would that be? They are completely different movements
>>36213573
Why would they be?
>>36213579
>>36213581
Just thought shoulders were used in both movements.
Oh well think I will copy the routine then, cheers.
>>36213548
Why is chins 5x5, but dips are 3x8?
>>36213618
There is a lot of heavy pressing already and dips are just a way to get some extra volume in strategic places (chest and tris). While chins are the main lat (yeah, rows don't do that too well) movement and I think it's important to get them strong.
>>36213647
seems reasonable
You just changed my gym routine, thanks anon
What do you recommend as far as ab work goes?
>>36212701
Just do SS.
>>36213763
I'm a big fan of dragon flags recently. What I'm doing right now is 3x12-15 weighted situps (feel free to use cable crunches doe, they are better, I just lack the equipment) supersetted with 3x15 russian twists once per week and 3x5-8 dragon flag progression movement on another session.
>>36213763
different guy
for that routine I'd add plank and/or ab wheel on A days (if you want to)
I'd also ad Farmer's Walk on B day
>>36213548
So i'd deadlift twice a week every two weeks? Given that I follow A-B-A and then B-A-B biweekly, or is it better to keep it A-B-A every week?
>>36213816
Yeah, that's the idea. I don't think beginners get so raped by deadlifts (which is still fairly light on that level) and it's important to deadlift more to maintain balance between quads and posterior chain. People are USUALLY quad dominant (especially those who didn't really move a lot or play sports in their youths).
Once you get to that 3pl8+ deadlift and it starts raping you too much it could be a good idea to switch to squatting on mondays and fridays and deadlifting on wednesdays. But keep the 3x5, 1x5 is a terrible meme (especially when you don't do powercleans like in SS).
>>36212701
SS is the better program.
Starting Strength did (and still does) almost no marketing, so the SL guy capitalized on that by changing the program slightly (i.e made it worse) and then marketed the everloving shit out of it.
9 heavy sets a week is already tough when the weight starts to climb. 15 heavy sets is just unnecessary.
>>36213839
>1x5 is a terrible meme
People get to 405x5 and beyond all the time doing 1x5. If you're squatting 3-5x5 then you're already getting a ton of lower body volume, limiting the need for sets across on deadlift.
>>36212701
>What is the better beginning program? And is starting from the bar on 5x5 helpful or should a beginner skip that?
Both are introductionary programs that should be abandoned within the end of two months, for better strength programs such as the classic 8x3.
But...
SL is better. The overt and clear recommendation to deload when stalled and work back up is one of the best lessons anyone needs for lifting.
A
Squats for the Thots 5x5
Curls for the Girls 3x8
Bench to make pussy clench 5x5
Rows for the hoes 5x5
B
Squats for thots 3x5
Press to make a mess 5x5
Diddle so you can fiddle 1x5
Dips for 2d underage japanese school girls 3.8
>>36213879
I know they do. I did it too. But looking back, I'd rather do more deadlift volume and make my hamstrings and glutes grow bigger. Now I have to resort to doing shitloads of extra accessory volume for my hammies, because they are tiny compared to my quads and my squats fall apart with more weight.
Ripp has you do powercleans and hypers, which solves the issue somehow. Mehdi doesn't even care and just tells you to do lmao 1x5 as your only posterior chain dominant movement. And they both advocate lowbar squats, which engage those hams a little more.
>>36212732
and sheiko is a fat old Russian, obviously that means his routines are trash - right?
(Disclaimer: I didn't do any weight lifting before)
I'm doing SL for a month now. And I liked the starting with empty bar thing, because I could get a routine going and work on my form (which took over 2 weeks) without being killed right in the beginning.
What I noticed:
It really seems to take a lot of time, to get deadlifts and squats to stall. I have the feeling I can go another month, adding 2,5kg to them without noticing much difference.
While stuff like barbell rows and overhead press got "too heavy" quite quickly.
Also I don't have the feeling of doing anything for my stomach muscles. The only muscles I really feel after a workout are in my arms, legs and lower back.
But all in all I like it. <1h workout that doesn't need much equipment, can do this in my bedroom whenever I find 1h free time 3 days a week.
>>36213911
This is a critical part of SS. 100% critical. You take two shots at improving your reps on a weight and deload if you don't make it. Literally none of you have read the book.
Hepburn pls go.
>>36212701
I started with SS but after a week switched to SL 5x5. Two reasons, the SL phone app is super nice and easy to use, and rows are a lot easier to do good form with than cleans when you have no idea wtf you are doing.
>>36212701
ITT, people who have never read the book.
SS is far superior if you want to know what the fugg you're doing. It's written for coaches, and should be read as such.
>>36214182
Whats so different about them, they seem nearly the same to me. Only difference is more sets of everything except deadlifts and rows instead of cleans.
Been doing SS for 3 weeks, about to add some accessories. Let me know what your think:
A
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
DL 1x5
Dips 3xf
Curls 3x8-12
B
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Chins 3xf or 3x5
Face Pulls 3x15
Lying Triceps Extensions 3x12
SL has a good routine but bad programming.
SS has a good routine and good programming.
Add accessories after a few weeks.
I mean ffs, I'm only benching 180 3x5 and squatting 235 3x5, and I have no clue how the fuck you would be able to do 2 more full sets even at these babbyweights, its just too fucking exhausting if your pushing your PRs every workout like me and every set is a fucking ridiculous struggle.
>>36215974
Why not just lift less weight and do more sets?
