Redpill me on power cleans. Why shouldn't I switch them out for rows in the texas method?
>>36020890
Just make sure you train rhomboidal somehow
I do it through face pulls and band pull aparts
>>36020890
Just do your rows. All you really want to do is get some muscles. Leave cleans to me.
>>36020890
Do you wanna look like pic related, or like a faggot couch potato doing SL because "p-power cleans are hard I'm scared"
>On the TM
TM is a template, not an indefinite program, first off.
Second off, the power clean and row work entirely different muscle groups.
Power Clean is an exact demonstration of power output as expressed by the ability to rack the weight. Primarily, the hamstrings, posterior chain, quads are used to "explode" in a standing vertical jump position, more or less with weight.
The Row, from the floor, is a demonstration of pulling mechanics, and is good for strengthening the posterior chain, not demonstrating power output.
You can add rows into the TM as an upperbody supplement, and Lascek discusses this and pullups being added in as some conditioning work.
>tldr; in absolutely no instance is the row a replacement for the power clean, although it is useful for general strength purposes.
>>36020890
>not doing both
Fuck your faggy routine.
Also fuck Glenn Pendlay, the fat shit... Dorian Yates knows what's up
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNjwZ1fxtCQ
Never felt a barbell row in my lats until watching that video
>>36020921
>>36020927
>>36020952
>>36020974
>>36020987
Riddle me this, faggots. At my gym there's no rubber plates and the "deadlift area" is just a shitty one inch thick rubber mat. Furthermore, the trainers there don't know shit, there is no way they could teach me to power clean, which is a very technical movement. So how the fuck would I incorporate them into my routine?
The truth is I really want to but I'm scared of injuring myself and pissing off the people at the gym and underdeveloping my back.
>>36020952
is trappy getting salty?
>>36021018
Well thankfully some fatfuck from Texas wrote an entire book about mastering cleans and having them in a routine.
Cleans advance at the same rate as your bench it's very unlikely that you will fuck anything up since you can't even ego lift oly lifts you either can or can't do them kinda like OHP.
>>36021018
>How would I incorporate them into my routine?
Firstly, are you doing a general strength routine, focused on compounds? Do you care about getting stronger? If not, don't even bother.
If you're doing something like push/pull, SS, TM, then it's perfectly fine to do power cleans. I'll link some videos where Rip teaches the power clean. And yeah, he really does make it simple. I did broom stick training in my house.
First, I worked on doing clean pulls, working on an upright torso. Second, I focused on the triple extension. Last, I focused on jumping out, rather than forward or backward.
You never want to do cleans too close to deadlift day if you are maxing out. This is why the PC is in the TM at the beginning of the week, in order to have a systemic stress where you are doing a pull from the floor, then doing some chins, which take far less out of the body, on the Wednesday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIB_X2N6020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plE3rYm49mU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DQOo7ieYJA
In the last video, not that Rip has pretty much the ideal bar path. There is a pull from the floor with the lats at the proper angle, there is an explosive jump with contact above the thigh, then an active pull into the jump.
Pic related is Starret's gross oversimplification.
>>36021018
1) You aren't going to see significant back development from doing 150lb power cleans two times a week. If that's your motive for doing them, drop the idea altogether.
2) It's not a complicated movement. Middle school footballers, probably the single stupidest demographic in America, are able to learn it and demonstrate proficiency in a single session.
3) You don't need to drop the weight, especially the piddly shit you'll be lifting. Just unrack it to your thighs and lower it from there.
>>36021018
>which is a very technical movement
No it's not.
Grab bar jump when it reaches mid-thigh catch on shoulders BOOM it's that fucking easy. Anything else is overcomplication that you should only worry about if you wanna take on weightlifting and compete.
And you don't need rubber plates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drttm5r66A
>>36021159
noooooooo
it's not a jump and the first pull is a lot more technical than grabbing the bar, there's no point overcomplicating it but also not in teaching completely shitty form
>>36021120
>Notes on transition
Begin from the hang position. In order to do this, and it is where -most- people screw up, is how to get there. Drop from the knees, and do not change the back angle at all. Grip the bar, approximately one hand width [more or less] away from your hips. From there, drop several inches. You aren't bending at the back. From there, stand back up and go tip toe. When you do this, you should make contact with the bar. Try and be consistent and make contact in the same place each time. From there, actively pull the bar up, and "throw your elbows" up to receive the bar. There are 5 points of contact; 2 on the hands, 2 on the anterior deltoid, and 1 on the neck. When you explode upwards during the active pull, you will, more or less, "shrug" at the explosion. Watch any video on clean pull technique, and this will be explained in depth.
>Next transition
Once you have gotten comfortable with this, drop down to just below the knees, and repeat the process. You can also do "block power cleans", by using the safety bars of a squat rack and lowering it so the bar begins just below the knees.
>Final transition
Add some weight, and do it from the floor. As a drill, pull the weight from the floor and work on the shrug portion, from the hang position to get a good rack position, and from just below the knees.
>>36021159
based rippetoe
>>36021202
Stop being a weightlifter wanker, you can power clean just fine the way rip teaches it. Only people who should worry about "omg second pull must be like this and then you don't jump you triple extend and then move the feet and then you pull yourself under bnla blablalblablabla" are faggots who want to actually compete.
If you wanna power clean for the benefits of the exercise when it comes to growth/strength/power, then you don't need all that overcomplicating faggotry.
Grab bar
Deadlift to the mid thigh
Jump
Catch on shoulders
Don't use your arms to pull the bar
>>36021159
holy shit that video was glorious
>>36020890
The Olympic movements are based. Ditch the Texas method and learn to snatch clean and jerk.
>>36021279
>I have snatched 82.5 and C&Jed 105.
-rip
it's trivial to learn a proper first pull (which isn't a deadlift or anything like it) and extension (which isn't anything like a jump) and you'll get a lot more out of power cleans that way, since you'll be using more weight.
there's literally no reason to learn it rip's way
>>36021802
>'s trivial to learn a proper first pull (which isn't a deadlift or anything like it)
B8
>>36021159
holy FUCK does rippletits have a gut
>>36021120
>Diane Fu
Why not just post some fucking Christmas aAbbot whilst you're here you clueless cunt.
>>36021159
why is he so fat??
>>36021159
TOP FUCKIGN KEK
>>36021835
>>36021855
No shit son he's 60 and still doing gomad, what did you expect?
https://vimeo.com/11913431
>>36020952
motherfucker strict pressed 162kg. Meanwhile I'm barely doing 70.
>>36021820
it's not bait. the purpose of the first pull is to set up for the second pull. a deadlift is just meant to get the most weight off the ground. lots of differences as a result
shoulders forward of the bar
back angle
knees out of the way
scooping the bar towards the body
wait, i got tricked, didn't i...
damnit
Does anyone have some experience with power cleans and torn ACL? I'm afraid i will fuck up my knee because of the impact after the jump. Is it possible to do it without the jump? Thanks for any feedback
>>36022200
i haven't done cleans with a torn acl but you aren't meant to jump at all
>>36022200
I haven't ever torn my ACL but I did tear my Achilles in a skiing accident years ago. I Clean without any issues, but obviously its a different muscle.
Alright Texasfags. Answer this.
How the FUCK are you supposed to get good back development by doing chin ups and deadlifts once a week? Power cleans is a meme exercise, and Madcow is the superior routine for overall mass and strength.
>>36020890
i do rows as a warmup for powercleans
>>36022256
Well Rip teaches it with a jump in his videos. Is it just one way of doing it?
>>36022304
that is rip's very idiosyncratic and strange way, which no actual weightlifter uses. rip isn't an oly coach, after all.
Pendlay on that:
>Although I believe that Mark Rippetoe is great for teaching beginners to do his version of the major exercises, and, really one of the best or even THE best at getting 17 year old skinny kids to gain weight, no denying that he is great at this and I have said this many times in the past... but when it comes to teaching the pull in weightlifting I agree with every other weightlifting caoch that I know whether in the USA or international, and say that he is dead wrong.
>>36021159
holy shit if i could ever powerclean 225, dropping the weight or lowering it
that doesn't mean there couldn't be problems with your acl and the extension/catch though
you'll have to try it out
>>36022275
>only training back once a week
You're doing TM wrong.
>>36020987
>Never felt a barbell row in my lats
Feelings are for women and fags. Doing eight sets of three pendlay rows made my back grow like fuck
>>36022200
Power cleans are really tough on the knee tendons, specifically due to the catch.
>>36022381
Lol, that is NOT the Texas Method as outlined in the book. Keep trying tho
>>36022381
As long as you follow the basic volume-(light)-intensity scheme per week you're not doing TM wrong. Lifts are picked according to ones goals. Also: stop posting trappy. He only parrots stuff, doesn't provide balanced weighing of pros and cons of approaches, and never mentions individual customization according to situation and goals.
>>36022495
I hate that transvestite and thats a shit variant he wrote but I have to point out its a template and there is no single texas method program.
Are light deadlifts a good alternative to cleans?
My gym is pretty small and gets quite crowded.
>>36022521
>He only parrots stuff, doesn't provide balanced weighing of pros and cons of approaches, and never mentions individual customization according to situation and goals.
He also weighs 46 kilos and squats less than two plates. I hope he kills himself
>>36022567
No, they're not.
>>36022521
Except she does all that.
It's like you've been on /fit/ for a week or something. Lurk more.
>>36022567
Yes they are. Or any deadlift variation, really.
Unless you're training for a sport, then no.
>>36022567
>Are light deadlifts a good alternative to cleans?
No. If you want a beginners program with higher deadlifting volume try canditos lp
>>36022629
>>36022663
>>36022664
What would be a good swap then?
I'll do em anyway, just need something incase the gym owners don't like em.
Rows just seem like an assistance exercise.
>>36022521
>trappy doesn't write a whole book on every post she sucks
>>36022495
You never read TM, did you? It's a template, not an indefinite routine. Lascek only but in a few different versions, but was explicit that it could be tailored.
>>36022684
Light deadlifts
Snatch deadlifts
Deficit deadlifts
Rack pulls
Deadlift to the knees
Romanian deadlifts
Stiff-legged deadlifts
Speed deadlifts
Paused deadlifts
Halting deadlifts
>>36022654
No he doesn't. If you actually read PP 3rd edition and some other stuff you'd see how unnuanced the stuff he writes is. It's probably you who should lurk more if you don't know that trappy is a new thing.
>>36022684
If you're not doing olympic lifting, rows are better anyway.
>>36022713
She writes custom routines for every one based on their goals and numbers, and is even available to further help the person to customise it further according to how the progression is going.
If you go to the /routine general/ threads you will see there's plenty of people who come around weekly to talk about their routine and progress and ask for further tips.
If you want more than that, then go buy yourself a coach. She's not getting paid and is doing more than she has to.
>>36022790
is she cute? where can I meet her?
>>36022790
please go shill somewhere else
you're right though: you get what you pay for, in this case: absolutely nothing
>>36022790
/routine general/ is only useful for complete newbies that can't think for themselves at all. He also sucks Rips cock way too much.
>>36020890
Do whatever, it won't matter. Anyone who uses the term redpill outside of /pol/ isn't going to make it anyway
Start with an empty bar and work your way comfortably up
If youve been lifting with good form for a while you shouldve developed some feeling with when your form is bad
Slightly off topic, but i'll ask here.
Should I do assistance work that uses the same muscles as my main lifts, or do it on the day I don't use em.
For example, do dips on bench day, and pullups on row day.
>>36022953
> do dips on bench day, and pullups on row day.
yes, that's fine
>>36022839
/pol/ have been replaced by /r9k/ as worst board. They are still shit obviously.
Madcow vs Texas Method?
I only care about size and strength, no sports related shit or powerlifting or none of that
>>36022200
You don't have to jump, look at how kang yue cleans
>>36022521
Holy shit trappy wrote this tm program for a specific anon, it's not meant to be the only tm program that's possible
>>36024209
Both are mediocre as shit and meant as a minimalist approach for highschool football players, they take hardly any effort, DUP is so much better if you want to get stronger and bigger quicker.
>>36024393
>minimalism is inherently bad!
>>36022402
are penalty rows best done in low rep sets like that? I've been trying to do them in sets of 6 and stalling like a motherfucker
>>36024650
Sets of 3 or 5 work better in my experience. If you want volume do more sets. Considering bar speed in a set of three I find the last rep in later sets is noticeably slower but form stays good.
I'm doing hepburn style programming at the moment
Is there a point to catching the bar at the end of the lift?
I suck at it, and lately just been pulling at around armpit height and then letting it drop (wearing wraps), like a powershrug.
I'm sure this exercise has its own name, sauce on that would be appreciate too.
>>36024760
I meant straps. So I don't look like a madman trying to make noise and break something.
>>36024760
High pulls. They are good too, just make 100% sure you are not pulling with your arms.
>>36024760
You honestly are likely to injure yourself. Your lats end up having all the weight dropped on them instead of the weight being dispersed over the collarbones. Lats and collarbones is an over simpilisation but you get the idea
>>36024784
I'm >>36024784
I don't know if hes doing highpulls it sounds like hes just doing cleans and not racking them but I could be wrong.
>>36020952
Can I not get the same type of body doing Deadlifts and OHP?
>>36024822
>Can I get the same body as a world class athlete who is the son of a champion without steroids doing a novice program
>>36024843
OK, let me rephrase, Do Deadlifts and OHP work the same muscles.
>>36024803
>Catching cleans on the clavicles
>>36024803
2bh I wasn't dropping the bar on the floor before either, more like catching it on my hands/straps and then gently lowering it to the ground. I don't have a platform or a place to drop the bar safely and without complaints.
I haven't felt any pain yet, but the drop does feel like asking for trouble sometimes even thought I try to slow the fall with my back and stop the bar with my quads (sort of like a reverse clean).
>>36024871
As I saidan oversimplification. If you showed someone off the street a clean and asked where the bar is resting they would say the collarbones. If you want to be elitist I recommend /owg/
>>36024918
>>36024862
No deadlift is primarily a leg and back excercise and ohp is a primarily shoulder and triceps excercise
>>36020952
bro
strength =/= aesthetics
case in point hysen pulaku:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NE4JzIajaw
klokov trains for aesthetics too
>>36020952
All oly lifters look like DYEL (except elite sportsmen)
>>36021018
>Furthermore, the trainers there don't know shit, there is no way they could teach me to power clean, which is a very technical movement.
No it isn't, you uncoordinated piece of shit.
>>36021279
>mentally ill body builder tries to explain the power clean
>deadlift the bar
>jump
Maybe you should just stick to your 8 different curl variations. Either do the exercise properly or don't do it at all.
Signed,
Competitive weightlifter
>>36022790
>she
>>36024862
H-how can you even ask with a straight face?
>>36022806
>>36022790
>she
>her
LOL
All he does is attention whore by providing the same exact information on Starting Strength and Practical Programming and just add his avatarfagging and the general need to have it fucking known that he is a shemale. My fucking cat is probably more attractive because the insecure fuck refuses to show his face in all the pictures /fit/ jerks off to.
>>36026821
Stay mad cuck.
Trappy if you see this ily <3
>>36026948
Here you go (You).
Also, you forgot your trip.
>>36026948
Pls post pics of trappy
>>36021120
>posting diana fu
>did not read
>that bitch is nasty
>>36026821
Wew, what a mess, I'm just going to call you a newfag and leave it at that
>>36027511
>>36026948
>mentally ill spaghetti armed skelly tries to coach closeted pussies
talk about practicing what you preach, basically /fit/ in a nutshell
also put your trip back on skeletor
>>36027553
>implying
Or whatever
Trappy actually contributes and helps people who ask for it, quite unlike yourself
>Power clean
>Not Snatch
Sad cunts.
>>36027700
/thread
>>36024760
If you can get it to armpit height you can get it to shoulder height, just catch a bit lower.
>>36026759
On a scale from 0 to 9, with 0 being the least technical and 9 the most, where would you put power cleans? Which exercises are a 0 and 9 respectively, in your opinion?
>>36026759
Professionals get injured doing bench press.
What makes you think a beginner can confidently self-teach power cleans?
>>36020890
Power cleans to warmup deadlifts. Keep the rows cuzzzz
>>36020952
I KNOW ITS YOU TRAPPPPPYYYYY
>>36026821
She provides solid advice to people that ask for it. Yes, a lot of it is taken from SS and Practical Programming, but if that is an efficient method to help people meet their goals I don't see what the big deal is?
What else do you want her to do? If some skelly is on a brosplit and not making any progress, she tells them to eat more, get rest, and start SS with accessories, which is a solid routine for that person.
Does everything she recommend have to be some new, never before seen routine before you are satisfied?
>>36029498
>b-but "she" tries to help people
Okay, and? Countless other people can and do provide programming assistance and diet suggestions, what exactly makes this mentally ill man any different? The trip?
Please fuck off. This place getting worse by the day with these high school fucks pouring in.
>>36029776
The only difference is that trappy does help people who ask for it. No different to others who do help, yet startlingly different to those who can and don't.
>>36029233
Autism
>>36029264
Read the book, there's a pretty good guide in it. Failing that, there's plenty of help available. I taught myself how to clean and I'm a beginner.
>>36029776
Nothing makes it different you fucking faggot, all I'm saying is that she gives solid advice to people that ask for it.
She isn't some super special snowflake, I just believe she gives solid lifting advice to people that ask for it.
I don't have a raging hate boner for her just because she is mtf, I could care or less what people do in their personal lives. I just don't understand why your bashing somebody for giving solid advice like all the other trips and anons on /fit/
If the only reason your so quick to criticize is because of the fucking anime images and the fact that she is mtf, thats fine, you do you, but that does not mean that the routine/workout recommendations are any less viable.
>>36021018
>watch tutorials on cleans
>video self doing cleans at the gym
>post on various forums for technique critiques
>read about the lift
its that easy
>>36021279
yeah dude jump and shrug XDDDDD
>>36029963
or, if you're that uncomfortable about doing them that much - don't.
Don't try and clean if you don't have the confidence to go all the way with it - you're more likely to fuck your shit up that way.
It's not like they're a vital lift anyway. They're great, but there's alternatives out there if you're a pussy.
>>36029776
The only difference is that you buttmad cucks try to derail perfectly legitimate threads whenever queen faggotess trappy is the one giving advice.
For example- JUST like this thread you fucking moron. YOU are the one anal pained about someone posting an image of a TX routine posted by trappy.
On another note power cleans absolutely kill my hamstrings but I guess that means I'm doing it right.
>>36020952
162-60 = 100 +1gf
100/40 = 2.5gf
mfw klokov has 3.5 gfs
>>36021842
>>36027113
>Diane Fu
what did she do? or whats wrong with her
>>36030580
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>36021018
I was in the same situation as you, no trainer, no other lifter in the gym doing cleans.
One thing I would recommend is to deload, or you'll instinctively barrel through using arms shoulders instead of doing it properly, and you'll hurt yourself once you increase weight.
I could get the bar on my shoulders with 70 kgs and atrocious form. I deloaded to 40 kgs and focused on getting the form right, three weeks with baby weight, just toying around with footing, hip angle, timing, elbow position. Go back to the videos when you have a doubt.
One thing with the clean, you'll know when you're doing it properly, you can "feel" the burst and reception when there nice and "straight." Just focus on dropping your body down (and not arching your back and pulling the bar up) and shooting your elbows forward,fast (if they're under the bar when you come back up, you're doing it wrong), that's generally where people fuck up.
>>36030527
I think his best is 180
>>36031431
Why are you obsessed with trappys dick?
>>36029911
>hurr you know that lift that has a lot of nuances and is generally considered more difficult to learn? it's not technical
>Explain yourself
>lel autist
You sure showed me.
I don't find that power cleans added that much to my power.
I swapped them out with 3x3 chest pass med ball throws and 3x3 underhand med ball throws (that I throw reverse over my head). I do these for distance/height and/or slightly increased weight. These are the only things I've ever done that were able to increase my vertical jump.
>>36033407
I wanna be her bf
>>36035543
I think the autism refers to your need to have the difficulty on a scale of 0 to 9 before you'll even try to power clean
>>36021018
>because you have to throw around the weight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drttm5r66A
>>36021040
>>36029366
Not her, I just saved the klokov vid she posted.
I'm very confused about this. Cleans are supposed to be for "explosive strength" but everything I've read says that is something you are born with, that can't really be "developed". What's the deal?
>>36037802
I've been doing power cleans for five months now and I consider them the most technical lift I've attempted. I'm trying to get a frame of reference for the anon who doesn't consider them at all technical.
>>36040573
Rippetoe's take on it is in the below video. Don't pay too much attention to his advice on form though.
why clean? Don't you have maids to do that sort of thing?
>>36041550
derp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIB_X2N6020
>>36040573
Power cleans are supposed to keep your explosive strength consistent as your overall strength goes up.
You're born with a genetic limit for your vertical jump, which the supposed to be the ultimate test of explosiveness, but that doesn't mean a weak beginner can't improve his vertical by a decent amount.
Who has more power output, someone who can 'convert' 95% of his squat strength at 100lbs, or someone who can do 60% of 400? This is assuming same bodyweight.
But no, chances are you're not going to have a mid 30s vert if you have a 15" vert right now.
>>36040573
you're born with a certain genetic potential, but that really only comes into play for top athletes.
You could have a low as fuck genetic potential, but train a lot and actually reach that plateau and be stronger than someone with a higher genetic potential that hasn't trained at all for it.
In the end, who gives a fuck, just lift weight.
>>36041579
His advice is fine. Dunno why olyfags are getting so buttmad about it. FYI Rip was a student of Bill Starr, who was a damn good weightlifter with average genetics.
Sure, most high school athletes botch the clean and turn it into a reverse curl when they attempt it on their own, but that isn't rippletits' fault.
>>36041550
Try snatch or squat jerk, those are technical
>>36041628
This. Rippletits turns something that's considered technical and difficult and impossible to learn without a coach into something simple as fuck.
Sure, it's not the 100% best way of doing it, but for someone who doesn't plan on competing on weightlifting and just wants to train for strength, it's more than enough.
>>36041628
If you actually knew how to clean, or screen knew what it was supposed to look like you'd know why rip's way of teaching the clean is shit.
Poor positions
Extension far too early
Hips banging the bar miles out forwards
Jumping
I could go on
But I won't, if anyone actually wants to learn how to clean then ask in the weightlifting
general
>>36042170
And then /owg/ will tell them "get a coach".
And then the person will give up on learning to clean.
Cmon, Rip's way of cleaning is completely fine for someone who doesn't plan on competing. It won't cause injury and it's gonna work just fine for its purpose.
And it doesn't require you to spend hundreds on a coach.
>>36042170
>If you actually knew how to clean
Stopped reading right there.
No dude, I can't clean. You're the only one on this board who knows how to.
>>36042186
>>36042516
>implying assumptions
>implying I care
Rip's way of teaching is shit, you can do lots better
>>36042674
Example
https://youtu.be/mPsxlNjv7Aw
>>36042931
Love his vids.
>>36042674
Are Power Cleans worth self-teaching with no spotter?
Or would an alternate such as a 80% deadlift or row be fine?
I don't care about Olympic lifting, I'm more interested in getting my main lifts up and hypertrophy.
>>36043029
>Are Power Cleans worth self-teaching with no spotter?
yes
>80% deadlift
>would doing a completely different exercise but slightly lighter than I would normally do it be a good substitute
no. Do rows if you want, I'd try to do cleans but if you're dead-set against them then do rows.
>>36021063
lol, his explanation and cues are total ass if you want to learn the movement
>inb4 read the book
i did
>>36043055
I'll try em out. But the gym might not like em -- it's a community college gym, and it gets pretty tightly packed at times.
>>36043136
Same here.
I do cleans & snatches in our universitiy's gym. At the beginning everybody kept staring or even started asking me questions.
The worst is, them normies know shit about etiquette and safety. So be very carefull.
For example:
Doing reverse kettlebell snatches or KB get ups, people walking by me, even in front of me, like this thing doesn't weight 24KG and could easily crack a skull.
>>36042931
Can you not see the difference between the way rip teaches and Alan's way? Just look on Alan's video at the last cause of problem 1, towards the end of his video. That's one of the problems with how rip teaches the clean. I think I even said it in an earlier post, that rip teaches to extend (and jump) too early.
>>36043029
Power cleans are really fun, and are a great exercise. You can learn them pretty easily by yourself, just film your attempts. I wouldn't have a spotter anywhere near you while you are cleaning though.
Cleans and power cleans aren't really good lifts for hypertrophy, it's a bit silly to be doing sets of eight power cleans when there's so much that can go wrong. Most people recommend not to do more than triples.
That said, if there's a place for them in your program then chuck them in, but they fill quite a different niche to light deads and rows.
>>36043055
Except rows are shit. Lighter deadlifts are the way to go, or another deadlift variation.
Rows train your lats and a bit of your arms and that's it. That's why you do chinups on SS.
Deadlifts train your entire posterior chain and back. If you're not gonna do cleans, do lighter deadlifts or a variation.
>>36043382
>implying you need sets of 8 for hypertrophy
