Is there any actual study that links "eating big" with faster strength and muscle size gains?
What would even be the benefit of eating all those extra carbs and fats in terms of muscle building? Isn't the fact that you're getting fatter proof that you're NOT using any of that shit and it's just getting stored?
Please, no broscience "if u don't eat carbs your muscles are tired" replies.
how fucking dumb are you
GET THE FUCK OUT DYEL
>>35657815
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850644/
> on the basis of available data, no further beneficial actions of carbohydrates, irrespective of GI, are evident concerning muscle hypertrophy when a protein supplement that maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis is ingested
But what do fucking doctors and scientists know that you don't, right?
Ripped chode only recommends GOMAD if you're underweight. Otherwise the point of eating more is that in gaining fat you're becoming stronger. Your don't have to bulk, it's just the optimal
>>35657869
>the point of eating more is that in gaining fat you're becoming stronger
See, this is what I don't get. How do you jump from the first conclusion to the other? How is getting fatter making you stronger or giving you faster muscle growth?
>>35657779
Listen, dummy: It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE to know precisely the right amounts of macros to eat to gain ONLY muscle and not fat, and your body doesn't work that way anyway, so rather than shorting yourself on the energy and building blocks it needs to build more muscle in response to trianing stress, you eat a surplus to ensure there is adequate amounts. Is that too hard for you to understand?
>>35657881
More carbs -> more energy -> harder workouts -> more adaption for the body to be made -> stronger/faster muscle growth
>>35657881
Because by weighing more your body has more force to exert when doing your compound lifts. This is why strongmen all have high fat amounts
More:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22301837
>Coingestion of a large amount of carbohydrate or free leucine is not warranted to further augment post- exercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is already ingested.
I mean I always thought bulking/cutting didn't make a lot of sense.
Any thoughts?
>>35657931
The goal is to lift heavier weights, not speed up muscle growth. WeighING more allows you to lift heavier weights and therefore be stronger
>>35657970
????
muscle growth is what allows you to lift heavier weights you autist
>>35657902
>>35657907
How is EXTRA fat, that is being stored because IT'S NOT BEING USED, helping you to recover?
>>35658022
The human body is evolved to survive famine in any way it can. If you are short on calories because of consistent exertion, it will actually break down muscle for the protein it's lacking for essential systems, like organs and heart and brain. How do you not know this?
>>35658022
Here's an analogy: you want your bag to be heavier, would you place the same amount of shit in it that you always do? Or will you put extra stuff in it to make it heavier?
It's the same with your body. Mass = strength. To obtain mass, you need to put more stuff into your body to make it bigger and heavier. Lifting weights lets you make strength gains, putting stuff into your body lets you recover so you can lift again. It's super easy bro, stop being lazy and eat more.
>>35658068
But who said anything about being SHORT on calories? I'm talking about eating the RIGHT amount of calories instead of an EXCESS, which is what everyone says you must do if you want to get stronger.
>>35658084
But again, the studies linked in this thread say that only protein does something to improve muscle mass.
>>35657881
Durrr what is F=ma
Fucking retard
>>35658095
The reason why people say this is because its absoloutly impossible for the normal lifter to know exactly what his/her daily surplus of calories should be on. You can only give an estimation hence why you should rather take too much than too little.
>>35658114
Ok, what's your point? Eat a shit ton of protein then. Studies say protein shouldn't be more than 25% of your macros to prevent liver damage/strain. Do the math. If you think you can bulk while eating right at maintenance, give it a shot and let us know.
You can set up your very own empirical study.
No, enjoy stalling at 100kg squat eating "clean" like a bitch.
>>35658114
>>35658155
in addition, the other macros are important for other bodily functions. Your body does more than just lift weights. You need carbs and fats for other stuff. /fit/ often forgets this and eats chicken and rice everyday.
>>35657779
No.
It's just an excuse from the fat asses on /fit to justify eating like a pig as long as they are lifting regularly. I remember when I started out I was fucking fat, and I didn't change my diet, just started lifting. Kept telling myself it's fine because I'm "bulking".
The optimal way is to eat just a little over your TDEE, with around 1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight.
Say you weigh 200 pounds and want to build muscle. If you TDEE every day is 3000 cal, then you should consumer 3100 cal, including 200g of protein. It won't make any difference if you eat a little more than your TDEE or alot more, you'll be building muscle at the same rate. As you said, the fact that you're getting fatter i proof that you're not using that shit, it's just getting stored.
TLDR; bulking is just an excuse by the fat asses of /fit to justify eating junk food, just eat a little over your TDEE and you're golden.
>>35657779
>What would even be the benefit of eating all those extra carbs and fats in terms of muscle building? Isn't the fact that you're getting fatter proof that you're NOT using any of that shit and it's just getting stored?
I tend to just do what successful bodybuilders recommend. They say that you need either fats or carbs or some combination of both to function, long term. Lots of people have tried eating protein only, but those people almost always end up crashing out of that diet. If stuck to it leads to a condition called "rabbit starvation", where you lose body fat until you are just exceptionally lean. When you are exceptionally lean it is very hard to add muscle. That is why real bodybuilders do bulks - they add a little bit of fat to gain muscle, then diet it off. For instance they might go from maybe 7% to 15% body fat percentage and back (although some people regard going from something like 15% to 30% and back as a bulk).
>>35658262
also there's no proof that you build muscle faster if you eat more than 1g/pound of bodyweight of protein. If you weigh 200 pound and eat 200g of protein a day, vs eating 500g of protein a day, you'll build muscle at the same rate. That's what protein farts are, when your body can't use the excess protein the bacteria in your gut goes to town on it.
Your body building muscle is like a bunch of bricklayers building a wall. They're all working 8 hours a day, thus building at an equal rate every day. Thus it doesn't matter if you give them enough bricks to build the wall, or 10 times as many, they can only build at a certain pace anyways.
>>35657779
Nope. Bulking is just an excuse given by the fatties of /fit.
>Hey Joe, you should probably not eat that pizza
>It's alright Mike, I'm bulking
>>35657779
IDK maybe you should try to make strength and muscle gains while eating at a deficit
>>35657846
So 4 Scoops C'mon is the scientific communities conclusion?
>>35658380
>It is impossible to eat just over your TDEE
>Being this retarded
>>35658422
When you're trying to put on weight (Muscle) you have to eat more
>>35657779
Just going off experience here, but I was stuck in a long ass plateau while trying many different routines while mostly eating 2800-3200 calories a day. Basically maintained my weight.
Then said fuck it and started eating around 4000 calories a day and everything shot up. Strength and size. And the only supplement I was using was protein powder, wasn't even using creatine yet. Wasn't clean eating either. Carbs and sugar were plenty.
>>35658462
Yes. What's your point? That's what OP said.
He's talking about bulking, not just eating an excess of your TDEE. OP is talking about whether eating a shit load over what you actually need is gonna make a difference.
Read OP's fucking post you fucking retard,
>>35658462
>>35658380
>>35658176
>>35658131
>>35658084
>>35658068
>>35657970
>>35657902
Nice broscience, see:
>Isn't the fact that you're getting fatter proof that you're NOT using any of that shit and it's just getting stored?
Any actual facts to counter this?
>>35657779
When you lift weights, you're damaging your muscles on a microscopic level so they repair themselves stronger and bigger. That's why you grow when you rest. Hence, you need more protein.
Your body is a chemical machine. It uses receptors and hormones to regulate it's shit, and figure out what's going on. Those chemicals are all made of fats. That's why you need fat. (Fat is also another source of fuel).
When you move around a lot, like when you're going to the gym 5 times a week to lift plus cardio, you burn up a lot of energy. Your body gets that energy from carbohydrates. Hence you need carbs.
Now, eating a little extra of those 3 macro nutrients to cover what you're doing to your body by exercising so much is called "bulking". That's why we "eat big". The carbs and fat don't directly help you build muscle; but they give your body the ability to.
In terms of muscle building, the fat allows your body to create testosterone (and other fun stuff) which allows you to lift. The carbs allow you to actually get to the gym, and to do the lifting part. The protein is the only part which directly effects your muscles, but they all have their place.
The people getting fat tend to be the ones fucking up their bulk and doing the wrong thing.
>>35657779
ITT: Skeletor idiots
Olympics athletes consume more than 5000 calories daily during training seasons. According to the logic of many in this thread, these athletes should be fat asses by now. However, these athletes are probably in much better shape than all of us. So why is this?
If the pseudo-dietitians of this thread had any sense of logic, they'd realize that any type of exercise burns calories. Strenuous exercise, paired with just living, forces one to eat above their TDEE in order to have energy. Not doing so will affect one's athletic performance.
As for normal people, 5000 calories is obviously absurd. However, someone doing strenuous activity should still eat above their TDEE. 1g of protein per bodyweight would also be recommended in this regard.
As for bulking, the point is to create a larger body mass. This is done so that one can increase the amount of muscle they can put on. How else would someone who is 150 lbs reach 170 while trying to gain muscle? Logic helps in these situations.
>>35658570
here is some basic math faggot
fedora+neckbeard-exercise=you
>>35658760
inb4 op says broscience
>>35658760
He eats that much because he is 190 pounds of muscle and does high intensity cardio for 8 hours per day.
When we lift heavy weights, 90% of the time we aren't under the bar. Even in a high volume split, you aren't under tension the whole time and you aren't exerting enough effort or elevating your heart rate enough to burn a significant amount of calories.
Going to momentary muscular failure doesn't burn many calories, it merely provides an intense signal for a small group of muscles telling your body to adapt.
Moving every muscle in your body for hours at a time and maintaining a threshold heart rate of 170 BPM consistently shreds through calories.
>>35658912
>implying you understand his workout routine
>implying you even exercise
>implying you arent a faggot
>implying you dont wear a fedora
>implying me saying implying makes me a faggot
>implying that the implications if your implementations dont imply that you implemented them implicitly
>implying i give enough of a fuck to stay on topic for your shitty bait
>>35658760
Micronutrients, not even once brah!
Besides a few pieces of lettuce, tomato, onion, 2000 calories worth of energy drinks and B-vitamins, and finally a fuck ton of tomato sauce.
Michael Phelps is one strung out nigger- 2 grams of caffeine per day, probably running AAS, sleeping aids and god knows what else on the side too.
>>35658199
>>35658648
Don't both of these answer OP?
>>35659047
what are you new here?
>>35658648
>>35658760
>all that text
>no one has explained yet why all the "necessary" extra fat and carbs are discarded by your body and stored because it's literally not being used at the moment
>fuck logic
>fuck medical studies
>I go to the gym 3 times a week so I'm going to use professional athletes as examples of why my shit works
Cool guys! Thanks!
>>35659761
> "necessary" extra fat and carbs are discarded by your body and stored because it's literally not being used at the moment
They are not, you retard.
Nobody has said that.
>>35657900
This
>>35657900
>>35658147
These.
The object of the game is to gain as much muscle mass as quickly as possible.
Being at a deficit aint doing that.
In order to do that you need carbs/fats for energy to push as hard as you can during workouts. Being at a deficit there will just make you feel like a weak bitch in the gym.
Yes you are correct. If you are putting on fat you are going over those numbers, but who the fuck knows how much calories they are burning EXACTLY every day.
You are going to be over or under, in the goal is to build up as quickly as possible its better to be over.
>>35659761
I did thought. Right here:
>>35658648
Your body stores it so that it can use it when needed. Otherwise you'd be trying to guess and time stuff, and it wouldn't even be close to accurate.
Also, I don't need to quote specific studies for the stuff I type; it's so incredibly basic that if you typed up "carbs", "fat" or "protein" on wikipedia you find hundreds of studies and theories on it.
By the way. This (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850644) is cherry picked as fuck. They're looking specifically at muscles. Not any of the other body's systems that let muscles function. Kinda like if I cited it as proof that drinking extra water during a workout has no effect on muscles. No, not directly, but it is still important.
tl;dr
Read. Just read. It's all there. Don't cherry pick and then misquote shit either.
many austists in this thread or just 2 going back and forth...?
thats the beauty of 4chan
>>35658912
I said that 5000 cal. for average lifters is absurd, but average lifters should still eat at a slight surplus because they are still doing strenuous activity.
>>35657846
from one of the references of said study
>For example, Dreyer et al. conducted a study on 16 young, healthy untrained men to determine the effects of post-workout consumption of either no beverage or leucine-enhanced EAAs [15]. Those consuming the leucine-enhanced beverage one hour following a single bout of resistance exercise had greater rates of protein synthesis than did the control group. Another study conducted by Koopman et al. [23] concurs with the findings of Dreyer. Eight untrained men were randomly assigned to consume one of the three beverages: carbohydrates, carbohydrate and protein or carbohydrate, protein and free leucine following 45 minutes of resistance exercise. The results indicated that whole body net protein balance was significantly greater in the carbohydrate, protein and leucine group compared with values observed in the carbohydrate and protein and carbohydrate only groups, indicating the ability of leucine to augment protein synthesis
the sample of these studies is always untrained people going through the motions hoping to get a chocolate bar at the end of the workout.
please link a proper scientific study with a decent sample size of weightlifters who have been training for >2 years.
>>35660543
I feel like there must be a 3rd troll just trying to bait either side whenever they seem to be reaching any for of understanding.
>>35658147
THIS
OP is under the assumption that only by adding muscle mass will you be stronger
In reality, adding more mass to your body makes it work harder, elevating your metabolic rate, thereby increasing gainz
On top of this, eating surplus calories from carbs and fats = more readily available energy for heavy exercise
OP is correct in the sense that the excess fat that gets stored isn't being used for energy; that's why people bulk, then cut. If you were on a truly clean bulk, you wouldn't gain extra fat
When I plateau, I eat slightly more then my lifts start going up.
TY BASED MAGIC
ITT: people explaining biology 101 get dismissed as being "broscience" by a DYEL
more like
ITT bait
