Sup everyone.
I'm here to answer some of the most frequent questions about the newly released PHIR Liner Progression for novice lifters.
This is a variation of SS, influenced by the Texas Method, with more autoregulation and assistance exercises.
If you have any further questions, I'll be here for a while so feel free.
>Please keep the shitposting to a minimum.
>Q: What is the point of going to failure on the first set?
One of the major things novice programs should be able to allow, but usually don't, is autoregulation. This means, the lifter himself should be able to regulate his progression. Someone might be really strong and able to add a lot of weight on his DL easily, and someone else might be cutting and won't be able to add as much weight. So it makes no sense that those two should add the same amount of weight to the bar.
The autoregulation guarantees that the progression will be tailored to YOU, not the other way around.
>Q: Won't that negatively affect my progression?
The autoregulation isn't supposed to last forever. As in, after you reach a certain point, you don't need to go to failure anymore as your progression won't be changing much.
How do you know when you've reached that point? The instructions on the picture make it really simple and easy to figure it out: Once going to failure on the first set affects the rest of the sets. Then you stop going to failure on the first set and stick to the 5 reps, since you won't need autoregulation any longer, at least for quite a while, since your weight increases are gonna be fairly linear now.
>Q: Why not go to failure on the last set, like Greyskull LP?
That makes no sense here. You will be exhausted by the final set, doing it to failure doesn't mean anything since you are unlikely to actually reach your AMRAP max. Since the point of going to failure is to autoregulate the progression, you are supposed to test your AMRAP max while completely rested - aka in the first set.
Q: Why not go to failure on the Deadlifts?
The whole point of going to failure is autoregulation. However, for the Deadlift, you can autoregulate it very precisely just by your back squat progression. This makes it unnecessary to go to failure on the DL.
But the main reason is, the Deadlift can cause very debilitating injuries if done with bad form and a round spine. Going to failure on it is a bad idea for novice lifters, as they don't have enough experience to be able to maintain proper and safe form throughout exhaustion.
Q: Why no BxAxBxx week?
The main focus of the program is the big three: Squat, Deadlift, and Bench Press. So it makes sense that those lifts are trained the most.
The OverHead Press is also very important for strength development. However, it's a lift that people easily stall, specially when compared to the Bench. From experience, I found that only OHPing once per week highly reduced the chances of plateauing. Besides, you're doing the OHP 1x per week compared to 1.5x per week on SS, so it's not a drastic reduction in volume.
Not only that, but the Bench, the skullcrushers, and the lateral raises from workout A are gonna guarantee that your OHP keeps progressing even with the lower frequency of training.
The Power Clean on workout B is a way of recovering from the Deadlifts while still training with a floor pull. Plus, it brings the benefits of increasing the power production of the lifter.
The Chinups are an assistance exercise, and would be too tiring to be performed on the days you deadlift.
Q: I'm overweight and can't do chinups even though I'm fairly strong on the rest of the lifts. Can I do barbell rows?
Yeah, go for it. Or do assisted chinups.
and onion
>>35380060
Going to failure on the first set isn't auto regulation you dumb retard
>Q: Can I do Barbell Rows instead of Power Cleans?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: The barbell row and the power cleans are completely different types of exercises. The row is a horizontal pull, which means the main work is done by your lats and your elbow flexors. The power clean is a floor pull, which means the main work is done by your hip extensors.
The barbell row is an alternative to the chinups, not the power clean.
> Q: Are power cleans necessary? I heard they are bad for hypertrophy and strength.
That's pretty much a myth.
Power cleans will train both your speed and your power (which are pretty much the same thing, technically).
What this means?
It means that the power clean will adapt your nervous system to activate more muscle fibers as quickly as possible.
By activating more muscle fibers in a shorter period of time, you gain the following benefits for strength and hypertrophy:
- It becomes easier to not fail on a certain part of a lift
One of the main reasons you fail a certain part of a lift is because your body fails to activate as many muscle fibers as is necessary in a short period of time. By taking longer to activate a stronger contraction, your muscles become fatigued before reaching maximum strength.
By being able to produce maximum strength as quickly as possible, you will perform the lifts faster and that will both reduce the amount of fatigue induced by holding the weights, and reduce the chances of failing on certain parts of the lifts due to sub-optimal muscle contraction.
- By activating more muscle fibers, you increase the muscle effort
And by increasing the effort your muscles perform, you will increase the hypertrophy results from your training.
Basically, if you can activate and stimulate double the amount of muscle fibers compared to someone else, you are gonna have much better results when it comes to muscular adaptation - because you will be "using your muscle a lot more" than the other person.
>>35380177
Please read the instructions on the program before calling other people retards. It's thoroughly explained.
1. Why would you call hanging leg raises a warmup?
>Warmup or finisher: hanging leg raises 2xF
And then you expect to lift with a good form? Squats and deads take a toll on your core, noway you're going to keep a neutral back if you fuck up your core before you do them. And no way you're going to get enough intra-abdominal pressure..
2. Your muscles can recover from 1xF on big movements, but your CNS can't. You will stall pretty fast if you train to failure every session. It's just not worth it, nobody does that, nobody recommends that. Novices can manage to recover easier, but they will stall pretty fast anyhow.
3. Novices just can't have the mind set / motivation to go to failure every session and expect to do more every time. That's a fucking hard thing even for advanced trainers. Even adding weight is pretty hard mentally.
4. Going to failure 3x a week just asks for injury, when it takes months to master the movements for a normal person. Your first years of lifting you pretty much learn something new about the exercise every day / week / month and make it more suitable for you.
>>35380198
>1. Why would you call hanging leg raises a warmup?
Warmup OR finisher. You can do it before or after lifting.
If you're doing it as a warmup, it's not supposed to exhaust your core. It's supposed to warm you up.
If you're exhausting yourself during warmup, you're doing it wrong.
>2. Your muscles can recover from 1xF on big movements, but your CNS can't. You will stall pretty fast if you train to failure every session. It's just not worth it, nobody does that, nobody recommends that. Novices can manage to recover easier, but they will stall pretty fast anyhow.
You aren't supposed to do 1xF on every session, though.
Once you autoregulate your progression after a couple or so of workouts, you will reach the point where doing 1xF isn't necessary and you will stick to 5 reps.
It's explained in the instructions.
Progression won't be dampered by going to failure because you're instructed to stop doing so as soon as it shows signs that you don't need it anymore.
After that, you follow a pretty steady linear progression.
You only go back to doing 1xF if you feel like you can progress faster and wants to test it.
I couldn't go into deep details in the image due to size constraints, so I explained it in the most concise way possible there.
>>35380234
>Making it this fucking ridiculous just to make your own program
>End up lifting like in all other programs
>Answer to question 1. is just a kek
Bye
>>35380184
>The barbell row is an alternative to the chinups, not the power clean.
'no'
>Q: Why do people say Power Cleans are bad for hypertrophy, then?
Basically it comes from the notion that, because the power clean lacks an eccentric phase, it doesn't provide enough muscular effort to produce a hypertrophy stimulus.
However, know what other lifts lack a proper eccentric phase?
Barbell rows (ironically enough), and Deadlifts (which have the exact same eccentric phase as the power clean).
And is very well known that those two exercises are great for building muscle mass.
>Q: What muscles am I gonna grow and make stronger with Power Cleans?
The power clean uses mostly your knee extensors and posterior chain (including the hip extensors, of course), and your traps.
Those are pretty much the same muscles used for the deadlift (though the deadlift also uses other muscles besides those).
The power clean can be seen as a lighter version of the deadlift, which makes it perfect for recovering from the heavy pulling.
>Q: I don't have bumper plates, I can't do Power Cleans
Listen to the words of the wise Rippletits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drttm5r66A
>>35380255
Please keep the shitposting to a minimum. Thanks.
>>35380259
Read the definition of the word "alternative".
If you wanna argue about anatomy and biomechanics I suggest you do some research instead.
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/BWUnderhandChinup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/LatissimusDorsi/BWPullup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/BBBentOverRow.html
>>35380196
That is not auto regulation you retard
>>35380309
>regulating the progression by your own performance is not autoregulation
Thanks for the well-thought-out response.
>>35380157
Trappy-chan is a great poster, but she has nothing to do with this. I'd appreciate if you kept your personal vendetta against her somewhere else.
>>35380328
>I-i'm not Trappy
>S-stop saying t-that srsly
>S-STOPPP
>>35380328
You don't regulate anything
Are you actually a tard?
>>35380328
You have the same posting style. The only difference is that when you trip, you use manga chicks and when you don't you use random photos.
>>35380458
Read again my program instructions. Then read about autoregulation. If you still don't get it, i can't help you.
End of this discussion.
FUCK YOU
>implying deadlifts don't have an eccentric
>implying the hamstrings are a knee extensor
FUCK. YOU.
>>35380497
You're a fucking tard, that's not auto regulation.
>>35380499
HE THINKS HAMSTRINGS ARE A KNEE EXTENSOR
HAHAAHAHAHAHA
>>35380505
Lets keep shitposting to a minimum.
Novice lifters like you should not start to argue. I recommend that you read SS.
>>35380348
This looks like trappy to you?
>>35380478
Sorry for your delusion, bro. It must be hard to sleep at night knowing that trappy might be under your bed or something.
>>35380497
>>35380533
These posters are not me.
>>35380499
Deadlifts have the same eccentric as the power clean.
I never said anything about hamstrings extending the knee?
>>35380458
Copy-pasting what's written in the picture, since you can't read it there for some reason.
You do as many reps as possible on the FIRST set.
If you’re not reaching the target reps for the second and third sets, rest longer between the sets. Eat more during the day and get better sleep during the night.
If you still fall short of the target reps, keep the first set at 5 reps instead of going to failure.
Rest 3-7 minutes between the sets for the main lifts, 1-2 min for assistance lifts.
- Progression and Autoregulation -
- Back Squat:
If you reach 8-10 reps on the first set, increase 4kg on the next workout.If you reach 4-7 reps on the first set, increase 2kg on the next workout.
If you reach 3 reps on the first set, increase 1kg on the next workout and mark one failure point.
- Deadlift:
Don’t go to failure on the Deadlifts.
You increase the Deadlifts in the same way as the Squat (use the Squat’s first set as reference for the increases here).
- Bench, Chinup, Press:
If you reach 8-10 reps on the first set, increase 2kg on the next workout.
If you reach 4-7 reps on the first set, increase 1kg on the next workout.
If you reach 3 reps on the first set, increase 0.5kg on the next workout and mark one failure point.
- Power Clean:
You increase the Power Clean 50% of the way you progress with the Squat (use the Squat’s first set as reference for the increases here).
>>35380586
>fat arm
ok bro
It's called muscles.
Stop doing this
>>35380594
You either are extremely delusional or just a very persistent troll
>>35380604
>>35380610
>>35380614
Ok bros, thanks for the free bumps.
Fucking resolutioners...
Just want to point out this thread has 7 posters and 31 replies.
It's literally ONE samefag shitting on OP.
>>35380620
You think that you look strong / muscular? Honest question.
>>35380060
Why the low volume meme? That's what's keeping this program down.
>>35380632
that's 6 not 1 m8
>>35380632
Refresh the page dipshit, there's 28 posters
>>35380060
Do the first and other two sets need to be the same weight or can be the first set less weight?
>>35380636
This is targeted towards novice lifters who need to get stronger. Too much volume isn't very helpful.
I have written PPL programs with plenty of volume for intermediate lifters. But it's not the subject of this thread.
Thanks for not shitposting, though.
>>35380651
All the sets are the same weight, which should be higher than the weight you did on the previous workout.
>>35380646
>28
You mean 8.
>>35380667
serious question: why are you shilling it?
>>35380060
Can I add some other exercises to the routine, such as incline/decline bench as an example?
>>35380667
High volume is helpful, especially for novice lifters because they're the lifters without muscle.
I've always been critical of mark rippetoes programming, and rightly so because his program is very challenging to run successfully with assistance from a coach or experienced friend.
Low volume keeps lifters small and weak, and this keeps them away from this program.
I'm not saying you should go all out and create a shopping list of exercises to hit every single muscle 3 times over, but I am saying that the assistance exercises need to be higher volume and they need to actually assist the main lifts. The assistance exercise choice has very little carry over to the main lifts.
The main lifts volume isn't what I'm complaining about per se, it's the assistance lifts and the assistance lift choice.
>>35380676
I'm the person who wrote it.
>>35380678
You can do whatever you want, really. It's you who's doing the lifting, so you do what you enjoy doing.
But for a novice, you don't really need the incline and the decline bench. The flat and the overhead are all you need, and the cable crossovers help further the chest hypertrophy response.
The bench variations are good for intermediate lifters, who need more volume to drive hypertrophy and strength development.
>>35380694
Yes sounds reasonable. Thanks mate
>>35380691
That's fine. Every coach has their methodology. Some say Rip is crazy for too little volume, some say Sheiko is crazy for too much volume. In the end, both are incredibly successful with their programs.
PHIR LP was written to strike a middle-ground between hypertrophy and strength training. Too much volume affects the recovery for linear progression, too little volume might not be enough to trigger good hypertrophy response for some people.
The amount of volume in this program mirrors other novice programs, like Greyskull, Reg Park's, Candito's LP, etc.
>The assistance exercise choice has very little carry over to the main lifts.
Skullcrushers -> triceps -> carry-over to bench and ohp
Lateral raises -> lateral delts -> carry-over to the ohp
cable crossovers -> chest -> carry-over to bench and ohp
db curls -> biceps/elbow flexors -> carry-over to chinups
facepulls -> posterior delts/traps/rotator cuff -> carry-over to chinups and shoulder health
There are no assistance exercises for the lowerbody because those are not necessary for a novice. The large amount of squatting and deadlifting is more than enough volume.
>>35380735
Skull crushers are about the only good thing on this list, I'd go one step further to reccomend lying tricep extensions as it hits the medial tricep head better, which is also used heavily in the overhead press. (IIRC)
Curls are necessary, but aren't much of an assistance for the chin-up, pull-up variation would be better assistance.
Cable crossovers will make the chest bigger, but in terms of movement similarity it isn't as beneficial as a bench press variant. I've had great success with dumbbell bench myself, I believe mark rippetoe comments on incline bench in his book.
Lateral raises are a great different movement and don't incorporate the triceps, sure there will be size gains, (barely if you're doing 2 sets of 12) however I can not how it would add to the overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid as effectively as lateral raises do.
Face pulls is also a necessity but doesnt hold much carry over to chin-ups.
While I'm at it, I also fail to see the point in beginning or finishing the session with hanging leg raises because for starters it's a very challenging exercise and many people preform if incorrectly, especially if your target audience is novice lifters, and secondly because doing it first will contribute to fatigue accumulation of the abs, especially as you're going til failure, and training abs before heavy squats, deadlifts and power cleans is counter intuitive and raises the risk of injury.
If anything I'd say it would be better if your program was similar to shieko, I have good faith in Russian programming after seeing the results its bred.
>>35380832
Skullcrushers = lying triceps extensions
It's just a nickname, the exercise is the same. And no, a proper skullcrusher doesn't go to your forehead, that's what retards do.
>Curls are necessary, but aren't much of an assistance for the chin-up
Chinups don't need any assistance. The curls are mostly for aesthetics reasons, since the program is also geared towards building a balanced physique.
>I can not how it would add to the overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid
Holy fuck...
>>35380874
Lmao I meant to write something along the lines of that the lateral raises hits the deltoid far more effectively than the overhead press so in terms of assistance the lifts are dissimilar.
I've seen plenty of people bring the bar to their head, I have no idea what variation OP May of been referring to.
>>35380892
Have been*
I'm on mobile, it's not my fault
LATERAL RAISES HIT THE LATERAL DELTOID MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN THE OVERHEAD PRESS*
Fucking hell
>>35380832
>overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid as effectively
>overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid as effectively
>overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid as effectively
>overhead press which doesn't even hit the lateral deltoid as effectively
New year is the worst.
>>35380912
It doesn't, the muscle contraction percentage is greater for the lateral raises.
Holy fucking shit can we just ban this guy already?
Every fucking day he makes a new thread on /fit/ trying to push his piece of shit program. Then the entire thread is people who actually know shit explaining why the routine is shit, and the autist defending it.
It's fucking spam at this point. And we know the guy who made it is dyel and bases all his information off shit he read online.
>>35380942
>>35380954
>number of posters didn't go up with these posts
Nice try.
>>35380694
>I'm the person who wrote it.
doesn't explain why you are pushing it so hard.
Alright, here's the deal with the OHP.
There are three primary movers:
The front and lateral delts
The clavicular pec major
The triceps
The front delts and pecs are responsible for the first drive up
The lateral delts come in as soon as your elbows start flaring to the sides (abduction of the shoulders), and become the most important mover with the anterior delts, while the chest contribution lowers as the bar goes up.
All of these above do the flexion and abduction of the shoulder, and that brings the bar up.
The triceps do the elbow extension, which also brings the bar up.
Now, the lateral delts are a very important assistance exercise for the OHP since it trains the abduction strength, while the bench press trains the flexion strength (and the elbow extension). You are doing both of these during the A workouts, and OHPing on the workout B. You are also doing skullcrushers for the triceps on A.
So basically, you are training every aspect of the OHP you need on workout A.
If you do not do lateral raises, you are not strengthening the shoulder abduction, and your OHP will be stuck at 50kg forever.
>>35381062
Interesting stuff but very biased information.
What's your view on dumbbell press?
>>35381081
Biased how?
Depending on how you do the Dumbbell Press, it can either mirror the OHP or the BTN Press.
In any case, the DB press is very good for balancing the strength on both shoulders and triceps. It also puts a lot more effort into your core and stabilizers.
That's why I include the DB press on my PPL program for intermediate lifters.
>>35381062
>Now, the lateral delts are a very important assistance exercise
lateral raises*
>>35381133
Can you post the ppl program?
>>35381133
Biased in you believe lateral raises are a necessity to progress overhead press, so I can only assume your information is in favour of the lateral raise.
I do dumbbell press myself and haven't done lateral raises before, my lateral deltoid is very well developed from that alone.
I understand what you wrote but I'm really struggling to see how it is as important as you claim.
I don't know if you're wrong, I'm not claiming you're wrong but I do wish for you to put me out of my misery and answer these two questions:
I don't really flare my elbows much when overhead press, but at the brief moment you kinda do its way above your deltoid, while lateral raises have the elbow below the deltoids.
This seems like different muscles will be incorporated, I am *almost* certain that the lats play a greater role with abduction than the lateral deltoid would when flaring your elbows above your deltoid.
I forgot the second question while writing this but will post if I remember
>>35381268
Lateral raises are not a necessity. Nothing is.
However, the lateral raises are a great isolation exercise to work your shoulder abduction strength.
The DB OHP also works shoulder abduction, even more than the barbell OHP if you do it with the arms at your side instead in front of you. So they are also great ancillary exercises for the OHP.
For the PHIR LP program in particular, I chose the lateral raises instead of the DB press since the lifter is already doing the OHP. The DB OHP would be too redundant, specially since you are already training the shoulder flexion and triceps extension in the same day with bench and skullcrushers. So I favour the isolation for the shoulder abduction instead, as it trains the muscles involved in a way the press doesn't.
The OHP has a longer range of motion than the lateral raises because it also includes the shoulder flexion, which is a longer movement than the shoulder abduction.
The lats are not involved at all with the OHP. They perform shoulder adduction, not abduction.
>>35381214
Sure, give me a moment, I was supposed to reformat a few things on them.
>>35381381
Are you sure lats aren't involved in ohp? I am fairly certain they are, as well as the bench press.
>>35381399
http://exrx.net/Muscles/LatissimusDorsi.html
The lats are not involved with any presses.
Their job during the bench press is exclusively to keep the back tight. Or, in case you don't have a spotter, you use the lats a little bit to unrack the bar. But that's it.
If you want a more detailed source, trappy-chan knows some books on the subject.
>>35381436
lats are used in the bench press for stability
>>35381454
Yep, that's what I meant by "keep the back tight".
>>35381454
It's very similar to the involvement of the chest during the barbell row.
>>35381454
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPress.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPressPowerLift.html
>>35381483
No, I'm agreeing with you.
Can you recommend me some books where I can learn about what muscles do what when lifting and stuff?
I own a lot of books already but haven't gotten around to reading many of them...
>>35381214
>>35381573
That aint a ppl routine.
>going to failure on OHP
>>35381520
The books I have are not in english, they are from back when I took my degree.
>>35381611
PPLxFullbodyxx
Similarly to PHAT, ULxPPLx
PPLPPLx routines are not very good for developing strength, for most people who are training natty.
>>35381833
Would ULxPPLx be better for both strength and hypertrophy? Why not just an Upper/Lower with an optional day for weak points?
>>35381916
Different things work better for different people. At the intermediate and advanced level, there's no cookie-cutter program for everyone like SS for beginners.
>>35381062
Great post.
I wish this sort of stuff was in the fucking sticky. Instead, it's a collection of shitty information targeted towards couch potatoes.
