I easily get knee pains (I think in or near the kneecaps). I was once able to do lots of squats without any problems, but after having tried to carry a big load, my knees felt a sharp pain and I've been recovering ever since. A similar thing happened after I tried running many years ago.
My knees will come back, I have no doubt, but I want to make them fucking strong. I'm tired of weak knees.
For now, I do sumo squats with a DB of 8 to 9 kilos. I do 5x5 for this, just enough to get some exercising without hurting too much. I'll increase reps when my knees are OK.
I intend to get a BB and a rack and cage and all and start squatting with it as soon as I am fine. I hope this is the best exercise for my knees.
Discuss.
I have patellofemoral pain too, went to a physical therapist for it and he basically just said I need to stretch more. Been doing that for a year or so and things have definitely gotten better. I'd also recommend getting some knee braces with the J support, pic related
>>35332207
>he basically just said I need to stretch more.
I hear this often but don't concretely know how to stretch for knees.
>Been doing that for a year or so and things have definitely gotten better.
I am now interested.
>I'd also recommend getting some knee braces with the J support, pic related
I always wondered if that would help at all. It's not like I feel my knees are about to give up or anything. What does it do concretely?
Do leg compound excercises deep to build "robust knees" (squat or leg press). Use the fullest ROM, closing your knee joint.
Also do high reps, at least to start off. It gets the blood flowing to your joints, releases lactic acid which helps keep your joints and connective tissue heal and get strong.
So slowly progress from really light high rep squats/leg press down to working heavier over time. If you start to get knee pain as you progress to heavier weights, stop and reduce the weight and increase reps. Try something like that, that's what I'd do.
So maybe start off doing sets of 15 (or higher even) with really light weight, like 50% of 1RM or even less. Could do a double progression, 12-15, add weight once you get to 15 reps (and you should get 15 reps easy your first few workouts because you started light) so basic linear progression, as you start to stall out move down to 10-12 or 8-10, then down to 6-8 and then back down to 5s. I expect this to be over the course of at least a month, and maybe once you get into low reps still even leave in some high rep work.
>>35332241
I'm this poster
>>35332240
I imagine it would be due to an imbalance of sorts between the hamstrings and quads. So do hip flexor/quadriceps stretches and maybe some hamstring work. I should've inclined that in my post too. Make sure you have good quad/hamstring balance.
>>35332207
What stretches?
I don't know, but the leg press is sexy.
>>35332241
>Also do high reps, at least to start off.
I fucked my shit up by doing sets of 20 squats. After 60 squats, my knees felt bad. It's after that that I carried a heavy load and felt a sharp pain.
I'm ever confused as to whether I should do low reps with more intensity or high reps with less.
Sumo squats seem easier to do, for me, for some reason.
My own body is enough weight to get pain in my knees, bro. I intend to progress SLOW AS FUCK when I start SS/SL.
>>35332265
I've had this pain for a while and just doing some shitty yoga routine stickied somewhere will be fine
>>35332258
>hamstring
>>35332286
What stretch specially though to target the muscles around the knee?
>>35332258
It really feels like it's my kneecaps, as in my bones, that are in pain, not a muscle or a tendon. I could be wrong, though.
>>35332240
So I'm not a doctor BUT from what I understand the pain is caused by a muscle imbalance around your knee that pulls your patella to the side, preventing it from tracking correctly.
To help with it, you can strengthen your quads and stretch. Look up stretches for your IT band, hamstring, and hip flexors
>>35332281
I would not do SS or SL, I don't think squatting 3x will be good for your knees. But what do I know.
Sumo squats don't hurt because they don't put much stress on the knees at all (and don't even use the knees much, it's a lot of glute/hamstring/hip adductors).
And when I'm saying high reps, go at a slow tempo, go deep with good form. The point is to focus on fatigue.
I've never heard of someone injuring their knees doing high reps, you probably fucked your form up. Why are you doing 20 rep squats, or fucking SIXTY rep sets when it seems like you're a beginner? fuck, I don't see much utility for sets of that many reps even as an advanced or intermediate. do highish reps with a slow tempo, 2s up 2s down
>>35332307
>stretches for your IT band, hamstring, and hip flexors
Ahhhhh, interesting! That would explain kneecap pain perfectly.
Love you bro.
>>35332295
What?
>>35332317
>I would not do SS or SL, I don't think squatting 3x will be good for your knees. But what do I know.
The way I see it, I used to do several sets of 20 reps for squatting, with no added weight, just my bod of 75 kilos. It used to be fine and should be fine again eventually.
Now, I intend to start with nothing but the bar, so 20 extra kilos. Doing only 25 squats total, in 5 sets, seems feasible. I personally feel that the weight I squat doesn't matter so much as just squatting, and that high reps do more damage to my knees, through wear. I may be wrong but fewer sumo squats seem better than tons of bodyweight squats.
>>35332317
>I've never heard of someone injuring their knees doing high reps, you probably fucked your form up. Why are you doing 20 rep squats, or fucking SIXTY rep sets when it seems like you're a beginner?
I used to do sets of 20 reps, because that's what I could do max. With no added weight. I just did this 3 or 4 times.
As a beginner, I didn't know what was much and what wasn't. I figured I was a pussy for not being able to do more than 20 squats with no added weight.
I'm fairly new to all this, only started about a year ago, and only 6 months with a more serious approach.
>>35332324
for sure man, I'd recommend just doing a quick search on patellofemoral syndrome and see if that sounds like what you're experiencing. If so then do those stretches 3X per day and that should help with your pain.
I would definitely recommend the J brace as well though, especially for running or playing sports. A year ago I was at the point with my knee pain where I could barely do anything involving running or jumping, and now with the stretching and the brace I play basketball 2x per week and just ran a 13 mile spartan race
>>35332331
I wasn't sure what hamstrings were, was showing you my googlan.
>>35332173
running with good form strengthens knees and ankles
>>35332375
>patellofemoral syndrome
Yeah, it fits pretty well. Sad thing is they don't seem to say there's any way to cure this pain with getting stronger. Sadface.
>those stretches
Which ones specifically?
> especially for running
I wouldn't even think of it for now.
>and now with the stretching and the brace I play basketball 2x per week and just ran a 13 mile spartan race
Hope! Thanks.
You should be fine to squat, pic related.
>>35332423
Translation?
>>35332417
>Sad thing is they don't seem to say there's any way to cure this pain with getting stronger
Yeah that's true in that the pain is caused by your patella tracking incorrectly and grinding against bone. Since the cartilage there has been worn down, you'll always experience pain if the patella continues to track off to the side like that. With stretching and strengthening the area though you should be able to help your patella track properly, which should lessen the pain
As far as specific stretches go, I do these 3:
Standing hamstring (find a small table or couch to rest your foot on and reach as far as you can while keeping your back straight)
Standing IT band
Kneeling hip flexors
>>35332423
Assuming red = knees, you're still passing through that.
I get some shitty knee problems myself, happens at the start or the end of the squat. I'm not doing them with weights simply cos if a knee goes and I'm supporting any significant weight, I'm gonna end up in A&E.
>>35332528
>Standing hamstring
Should these stretches be dynamic or static?
>>35332572
Static is what my physical therapist told me, hold each of those stretches for 15-20 seconds 3x each leg
>>35332563
>I'm not doing them with weights simply cos if a knee goes and I'm supporting any significant weight, I'm gonna end up in A&E.
Squat in a power cage, friend.
>>35332593
So these will make my hamstrings longer, which will make my kneecaps stay in place, correct?
>>35332612
I can't speak on that for sure, but yeah I think that's the idea
>>35332593
I tried. I realise I'm EXTREMELY unflexible and if that's required to avoid kneepain, I might have found why I get them at all. Thanks to you!
I don't quite get how to do kneeling hip flexors yet.
Does trying to touch one's toes count as a good stretching exercise?
My knees already feel better doing this, or so I think. My woman laughs and thinks it's placebo, but I might just be THIS inflexible.
>>35332324
This anon offers some sound advice. There are a couple things I would like to add. I would highly suggest FOAM ROLLING the other areas of the knee, along your your hips , hamstrings, quads, and calves. Thus far I haven't seen anyone suggest self-MFR(foam rolling). You'd be surprised how much more effective it can he than stretching.
Bonus round* The IT Is not a muscle but a ligament, and can not be stretched. It attached to the TFL however, which can be stretched and foam rolled. I highly recommend looking in to this for knee pain and sometimes back pain.
>>35332700
Outer areas*
Can be*
It's attached*
So wait, when one stretches, what is stretched?
>ligaments
>muscles
???
>>35332735
Muscles are stretched. They have an organ inside the muscle which can tell it to relax when it is stretched. Also the muscle fibers naturally bunch together in order to strengthen the muscle, making it tight.
Ligaments are simply connective tissue connecting one bone to another.
ITT: we fix knee pain.
For the first time in my life, I've been given good info on it and what to do.
When I was a teen, a doctor told me to just "strengthen" my knees, but never said how, and since I wasn't into sports, I never did anything.
I was plagued with this as early as 12. Now I'm going to level up.
>>35332759
So what do I need to stretch to avoid patellofemoral pain? Or do ligaments and muscles always stretch together?
>>35332784
The ligaments aren't really able to be stretched. I would highly suggest any kind of myofascial release. You can even do this with a tennis ball. Try loosening up the muscles surrounding the knee, potentially restoring proper balance to the muscles surrounding the knee/ligaments. This should take some off the stress off of the ligaments and promote healthy circulation.
>>35332241
I'm not any of the guys above, but this is what works for me:
>Deep squats feel good, quarter squats destroy my knees
>Deep leg press destroys my knees, but I'm currently doing single leg press unti knee is at 90º and it's alright
>Hack squats COMPLETELY destroy my knees
>Extensions are alright but i don't do them out of fear. Candito says that the last part of the rep (90º-180º) is good for knee pain tho
>Currently taking 1g Glucosamine HCl/day. MyProtein brand. Massive improvement. Other versions of snake oil I've tried have done nothing to me (fish oil, and lower dose glucosamine+condroitine+MSM), so I guess it might actually be working.
>Always train lower body with a knee brace (cheap rehband substitute).
I hope this helps somebody
>>35333063
Noted. Yes, it helps me.
>>35333063
This anon brings up some other areas you could look in to.
Supplements - omega fatty acids for joint health. Turmeric for inflammation.
*keep in mind inflammation is there for a reason, usually the body's way of healing overworked muscles.
Lifts - obviously lifting heavy(despite what /fit/ may have to say) is not a good idea if you don't have a full range of motion. Packing on the weight and doing a half squat is going to ruin what knees you have left. Squatting at full depth is always healthy in a lot of ways (functionally, hormonally, etc). If this is difficult for you now, don't worry about the weight. Just use the bar, or no bar just your body weight. Hang out at the bottom of the squat for a while and get your stability in check. When you do start adding weight your squats will feel much stronger and more stable.
I'm >>35333063
To elaborate a bit on exercises and stretches I do that help with the pain:
>Squat 2x/week, low reps (high reps = bad form= pain, at least in my case)
>DL gives minor discomfort, but it's fun so w/e
>Single leg press to correct slight imbalance (I fucked one of my knees a bit and while I was injured los a lot of muscle on that leg)
Stretcihng:
>Stretching quads/hams (both of them the standing variations) have improved the situation.
>Hip flexor, groin, ab/adductor and glute stretches are pretty cool too if you have back pain
>Foam rolling. Just do it. I's amazing. I get the weirdest looks at my gym but it's definitely worth it.
>>35333117
>If this is difficult for you now, don't worry about the weight. Just use the bar, or no bar just your body weight.
Just my weight or with a DB for now.
The rest is exactly what I do lately and it does work better for me.
>I always break parallel like SL dude said to
>>35332416
And if not fatass, jump rope
>>35333117
But the bottom of the squat is where my knees feel like they're going to explode.
>>35333130
Keep it up anon. It seems like you're on the right path. One final thing I will say is be patient. This won't change over night. Especially as we age, stretching may take longer and longer. Realize that you are making positive changes daily, and make this stretching a habit. Three months from now you will look back and say "wow, I've come a long way". Be consistent and never give up. Also drink lots of water.
>>35333163
Get a foam roller, tennis ball, medicine ball, anything, and start applying pressure to the muscles around the knees. Take note of how your knees feel now at full depth, then after a few weeks of rolling, try again. If you don't see any improvement, it may be safe to say there has been some serious cartilage damage.
>>35333163
I'm also curious about your squat form. Remember the heels should stay down, and the knees should not come out in front of your toes. Also you should be foam rolling your lats before you do squats as tight lats can contribute to an excessive forward lean and put unnecessary pressure of the knees.
leg press, squats, dedlefts
if youre old tho be careful. It can be easy as fuck to tear your ACL or MCL
>>35333163
Yeah, then do't squat deep just yet. Focus on stretching and rolling your quads and hams.
Look into patellar tendon braces if pain is below knee
Take a joint health / recovery / cartilage precursor / whatever they brand it supplement. You don't have to spend a lot, go cheap and see if it works. Keep in mind that they take a lot to take effect (1 month or more).
Get a knee brace. Then start doing bulgarian split squats and walking lunges. Start without weight to get your knee used to them. Then, start adding weights.
>>35333266
would fish oil have any effect after a few months?
>>35333294
Personally I am hesitant to recommend braces because the body adapts and becomes dependant on them and ultimately is less functional without the braces. If you just want to ignore the problem I guess a brace will do. Since we're on /fit/, might as well recommend steroids for recovery also.
>>35333163
Is this with or without weight?
>>35333388
>becomes dependant on them and ultimately is less functional without the braces.
Has never happened to me ever. I use them when I'm injured, and take it off when not. OP has an injured need and needs the stability and compression that it provides until it heals and adapts to the exercises. Then, he can always take it off.
>might as well recommend steroids for recovery also.
Prednisone is great as a corticosteroid for recover. Of course, not long term though. I would suggest OP go to his doctor to get an injection to help out his knee issue.
