At what point did you find out that Starting Strength was a waste of time?
>>35325332
when kids at school started calling me quads. it was good but for the wrong reasons.
im now on ppl and dont listen to this stupid circlejerk.
this circlejerk on ss reminds of that experiment where they had some monkeys in a cage with a ladder and on top of the ladder was food. each time a monkey climbed the ladder, all the other monkeys were sprayed with water. after a while, the monkey beat the shit out of whatever thing climbed up the ladder. then they introduced a new monkey and it tried to climb up the ladder but it got beat the fuck up and didnt know why. then after a while, this new monkey beat whatever other monkeys climbed up the ladder even tho it didnt know why.
man, a lot of the people that post on this board are psuedo-intellectuals. they give advice that they never even tried or understand.
>>35325365
That example works for me in reverse.
At first I did a brosplit because I didn't know shit and I wouldn't trust the internet because who would lie on the internet and also because that's what the roided chimp at the gym told me to do. Saw little gains, stalled fast.
Then I switched to a push pull because I felt it made more sense. Saw a little bit more gains, stalled again.
Then I did SL because it is normie friendly, saw gains, stalled again especially on DLs.
Then I did SS and with the cleans my DL shot up by 40 kg seemingly overnight.
On TM rn.
Fuck your shit routines, SS is best. Only difference is I prefer high bar squat.
>le trex quads meme
>implying you can achieve so much muscular growth in 6 months
>implying you won't get a decent back and shoulders to match your legs
>>35325332
Epic. Pic related.
>>35325434
Well of course you wouldn't look like a T-Rex, you already went on other routines beforehand. Try turning back time to DYEL mode and start with SS, you're going to get meme'd on.
>I can lift heavier things on a strength routine
No fucking shit
Take that Rippletits cock out of your mouth for a bit and open your eyes
Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 ?????
what the fuck is this, this not give you any good look.
At the very beginning tbqh
So, all bullshit aside, memes out the window:
What is the best routine to start off with for maximum aesthetic gains?
>>35325332
I didn't. It made me strong which is exactly what I wanted from it.
>>35325516
SS with the recommended accessories (dips and pull ups)
>>35325332
spotted the illiterate retard who fucks up something as simple as 3x5
>>35325332
My game plan is to milk out SS for 6 months until I stall in all the major lifts, then move on to aesthetic-oriented intermediate routine.
What time is wasted when it is used to create a great base?
>>35325471
You seem mad the guy you're replying to is exactly right.
I started with SS from day 1 and had the same experience with him on it. Made gains from day one until the day I finished it and now on TM. It's a great routine, no T-rex mode or excessive fatness.
If you fucked it up and got fat or disproportionate it's entirely your own fault. Done properly neither of those things will happen.
>>35325516
SS+accessories.
>>35325516
You can gain 2lbs of muscle per month natty in your first year. There's no fucking program that's going to give you more gains than that, you complete retards. There is no better program for a beginner than a 3 day novice program with an increase in load on a workout to workout basis until your novice gains end.
>>35325365
>they had some monkeys in a cage with a ladder and on top of the ladder was food. each time a monkey climbed the ladder, all the other monkeys were sprayed with water. after a while, the monkey beat the shit out of whatever thing climbed up the ladder. then they introduced a new monkey and it tried to climb up the ladder but it got beat the fuck up and didnt know why. then after a while, this new monkey beat whatever other monkeys climbed up the ladder even tho it didnt know why.
This is an EXCELLENT representation of what's going on on /fit/ all the time. It applies to EVERT argument commonly seen on here though, not just the proponents of Starting Strength. Most people who say "just do PPL" is the monkey experiment all over again as well. As if "PPL" even means something.
For every 1 guy who thinks for himself, there are 100 guys just repeating what they hear everybody else say.
>>35325532
No time is wasted.
>>35325532
Here's the thing though, if you really want to milk SS you don't put an arbitrary time limit of 6 months on it. Some people can run it for a year or more and still make gains. If the program is working for you run it until you can't milk it any more. That means until you plateau hard, not just stopping after 6 months.
As you say, time isn't wasted building a good foundation. Getting /fit/ isn't something you rush (unless you're roiding lel) so why not run it for as long as you can and take advantage of noob gains as long as you can?
>using a premade routine
>expecting the results you want
Read as many books and articles of the style of exercise you want to do and talk to people who saw success in the form of exercise you want to do, its that easy guys.
SS has some decent stuff but the Squat volume killed me when I did it back in 2010. Boredom on SS was horrible too.
It's YOUR BODY, find what works for YOU. Unless the author of the program is in the gym coaching you don't blindly follow it.
>>35325558
>Squat volume killed me
That's because you're a weak ass pussy with no gains.
>>35325558
People here (and in many places on the internet) can't even make a decision as to which premade routine to use. SS, SL, ICF, Greyskulls, PPL etc etc. Do you really expect these people to design their own routine effectively?
I agree, if eveyone could have their own routine tailored to what works for them that would be great but it's not realistic to expect everyone to devote the time required to learn enough to be good at it.
>>35325555
The 6 month thing is just an estimate. It's just what most people who finished SS say.
Nice quads tho.
>>35325575
Yeah, it just grinds my gears when people say that. The program is over when you stall hard on it and can't progress anymore. I feel the 6 month thing is used by some folk to quit just as things get hard on SS when if they tried they could probably run it another 6 months or more.
I liked ss, but due to a hip injury I reduced the squat volume a touch, my version looks like
A
Power cleans
Bench
Barbell row
B
Squat
Ohp
Deadlift
All linear progression still and I add couple of sets of dips and chins based on how im feeling
>>35325573
Anything works for a novice (unless your programme is completely retarded). You don't need a tailored made programme until you're a mid intermediate and even then it's not always the case . Advanced lifters need a programming tailored to them specifically.
Fact is most of you are just lazy and looking for excuses.
>>35325434
??
mate, i was known throughout my year level as quads. ppl came up and massaged my legs too no homo. it was good but i never got compliments on my upper body and never had the arms to match. bcos really, there is next to no work for arms unless you add accessories and modify things.
and wtf is up with the sometimes 1x a week bench press or ohp on SS anyways? how would i be able to get "decent" back and shoulders to "match" when i squat 3x a week in comparison?
i actually had external criticism from normal people idk about you but you probs just looked in the mirror and gave urself validation.
ss is shit for people who want a decent physique. fuck the people who think it's narcissistic to want a good body too lmao, they're living under a rock. if you want a good physique, go for a program that actually balances lift frequency and imo (note that this opinion is based on personal experience not any studies) also balances high rep and low rep work. i found a modified ppl program for beginners for this.
>>35325332
>following meme advice
Never because I never did it
>>35325598
That's why you're still weak and don't even look like you lift.
>>35325365
you forgot the part of the experiment where it got to the point where all initial monkeys had been replaced by newer monkeys who had never been sprayed by the hose, yet they still beat the shit out of any newer monkey whenever they tried to climb the ladder because of the learned behaviour even though not a single one of them had faced being sprayed
>>35325601
Nah bro it's because of my genes
>>35325597
>and wtf is up with the sometimes 1x a week bench press or ohp on SS anyways?
Because it's "STARTING strength", you numbskull. It's for beginners/people who have never lifted,not intermediate or above.
God damn it's like /fit/ is full of retards, I swear.
>>35325607
Of course it is.
>>35325597
The problem I see here is that you're doing squat/dead/ohp/bench/clean routine only.
Why can't you just modify the program to fit your needs? If there's no bench for the day, why not do dips at the end of your routine? It's that simple.
>>35325516
Zyzz Routine on roids
>>35325612
Because dips are as not easy to progress as the bench and will stall much faster than the bench, you numbskulls. The dip is an accessory.
Do you fucks know anything about lifting? You're criticism shit you don't know anything about.
>>35325516
>What is the best routine to start off with for maximum aesthetic gains?
Full body, 3x a week, 12-15 reps, 3 sets, 1 exercise per muscle group. Go into a 3 day split later and a 5 day split even later. Instead of cardio, do more volume later on.
I never really understood why beginners should do powerlifting (which is what SS is - a bad PL routine). Strength base is a meme and no real trainer lets you go for strength first. Not a single one.
>>35325601
>did SS
>not dyel
Pick one
>>35325596
Yeah, anything will work for a novice, but there are good routines and bad routines. Most folk here left to their own devices would end up avoiding compounds or routines full of pushing and end up with fucked shoulders or something. SS is about as effective as things get for a novice and suits 90% of people so why not recommend it? It's simple and effective.
And most folk when asking the question "what's the best way to start lifting" don't want to hear "go learn a bunch about the theory behind lifting and experiment for months to see what works for you" they want to hear "learn how to do this group of exercises and do them in this order". You might enjoy the way you're advocating but I doubt most people will desu senpai.
>Fact is most of you are just lazy and looking for excuses
Nah man. I ran SS all the way to over 3pl8 squat. It worked fine for me.
>>35325597
>unless you add accessories and modify things
>he didn't add accessories to SS
Well there you go fgt. Tell me something, did you read the book? And be honest.
havent been on /fit/ in ages but it warms my heart to see people STILL get trolled into doing SS. lmao
>>35325637
I'm not criticizing SS. Read my post again.
"You are right to be wary. There is much bullshit. Be wary of me too, because I may be wrong. Make up your own mind after you evaluate all the evidence and the logic."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325657
Yeah, I got that after I posted. My bad, I just woke up.
>>35325658
This.
>>35325632
Let's see your novice progress.
When I realised ICF is literally SS on steroids and much more better. I also do chinups daily because Greyskull has this and I combined them both.
>>35325597
probably for manlets your legs get pretty thick
i'm 6'1 and i have very long legs for even for my height and and even at lmao3plate ATG squat for reps and only 190lbs bench for reps my upper body (in exception of chest) was far ahead my legs.
had very wide back and good shoulders cause 130lbs OHP but my chest was ridic small cause I had been benching with ludicrous technique
>>35325677
ICF and SL 5x5 are inferior programs that will make you stall much faster because your body will not be able to recover from all that volume, especially when your lifts start getting decent.
It was fine for me
Greyskull LP is the best novice program, it was made with the intention to correct the short comings of SS.
>>35325684
not if I am a healthy young male and if I am not a pussy.
>>35325573
They're not going to make it. If they can't put in the time researching wtf they're doing then they have no hope making decent gains.
>>35325570
>weak ass pussy
Eh
>with no gains
Fucking pvp me faggot
*draws +5 lightning claymore*
>>35325695
No. Doing 2 extra sets for everything will make you stall much faster once your lifts start getting any good, doesn't matter if you're a young male and you're not a pussy. It's harder to progress on 5x5 than it is on 3x5, it's not fucking rocket science.
But okay, make inferior progress and waste time stalling.
"If you want to look like a bodybuilder, that's fine with me. That is a matter for you to discuss with your God and your psychologist. But even a bodybuilder is a novice strength trainee until he's an intermediate. The fastest way to gain muscular bodyweight -- the supposed goal of a bodybuilder -- is with a linear progression on the basic barbell exercises. And 5s are the way this progression works best."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325618
>Because dips are as not easy to progress as the bench and will stall much faster than the bench
What makes you say that?
>>35325595
Man if your hip has issues wouldnt it be better to have deadlifts on A day?
>>35325707
>implying I am not doing SUPERIOR 3x5 ICF.
it's like doing SS but with accesories for extra biceps and triceps gains
There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy.
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325698
Point is though most people want to start right fucking now. To learn the right stuff takes time and even experience of lifting. I knew far more when I finished SS than when I started it because I was learning as I did it.
Asking folk to spend months learning before the pick up a weight isn't a good approach. Best to give them a premade routine and encourage them to learn more because they'll need it when they hit intermediate.
ITT: People not realizing that SS is just a transition to a higher stage of lifting. You're not supposed to be on the program longer than 6 - 12 months, retards.
>>35325710
>according to my long experience as an utter failure as a powerlifter, a coach, and a man.
>>35325690
Looks about right. Good job mang.
>>35325712
Because the bench press uses your entire body, the dip does not. More muscle involvement = more weight that you can add. How much weight can you realistically add to the dip with a belt compared to how much weight you can add to the bench? Think about it lad.
>>35325669
>downloading pictures from /fit/ and claiming it's yourself
Nice picture, did you get this from a CBT?
"If you want to look like some Abercrombie model, then find another program and enjoy your nice, easy training style. If you are serious about adding muscle to your frame, then get under the damn bar and make it happen."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325690
Solid 20 - 30lbs gained in bodyweight there. Am I right?
>>35325707
That's why SL goes to 3x5 as soon as the lifts get any good. SL is a decent routine. Not as good as SS IMO, but still decent.
Don't know a fucking thing about ICF because Blahaha
>>35325727
No, it's my picture you tard.
"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a fucking Pussy. I have no time or patience for fucking Pussies. Please tell everyone you know that I said this."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325724
The dip however puts you in a stronger position biomechanically speaking, and also (usually) uses a somewhat shorter ROM, both of which = more weight you can add.
Honestly, only a minority of people can bench press more than they can dip. So if that's your argument then I'm sorry to say but it doesn't hold water.
>>35325735
Blaha looks better than Rippletoter and the stronglift jew and also has more testosterone.
>>35325533
Nice lies, you dumb fucking T-Rex
>>35325743
What? You think the majority of people can dip with 100kg attached to their belt? Are you retarded?
"Go home and tell Mom that you're a man now."
- Mark Rippetoe
>>35325750
You think the majority of people can bench their bodyweight plus hundy kilo?
>>35325716
>months of time to figure out what you're going to do for an hour 3-5 times a week
Do our hypothetical novice lifters have downs syndrome m8?
>>35325757
Doing dips is not equivalent to benching body weight, what are you smoking?
>>35325761
Nobody said it was. What we're talking about is which of the two exercises lets you handle the largest amount of weight. And for the vast majority of people that would be dips.
"If lifting heavy weights for partial [squats] were of any benefit for sports, Gold's Gym would be fielding the majority of the 2008 Olympic team."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325739
Sure bro. Keep doing SS
>>35325745
And both of them look better than Glenn Pendlay, what's your point?
>>35325748
cool story bro
>>35325743
>stronger biomechanical position
>dips
That's why some many people injure themselve s doing them right?
Also, what do you think is easier, bench pressing 275lbs or loading 100lbs on to a weight belt and waddling to the parallel bars?
>>35325766
No it wouldn't. The majority of people can reach a 1x to 1.5x bodyweight bench.
The majority of people will not dip with 0.5x bodyweight attached.
"A 2 pound weight gain doesn't count, since it is the size of an average turd."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325759
It takes knowledge to know how to programm a good routine correctly. That's why good coaches are rare. If it was as easy as saying "I'm going to do this this and this 3-5 times a week" we'd all be coaching olympic athletes.
Even good coaches can't agree on some of the finer details of programming.
"Muscles don’t get leaner—you do."
- Mark Rippletits
I agree that you do not need a strength base to get started on a hypertrophy routine. But for hungry skeles doing SS + accessories is the fastest way to pack on a decent amount of muscle. GOMAD is a meme but drinking a liter or two of milk doesn't hurt if you don't have the appetite to eat big(or if you are poor).
The biggest problem with SS though is that most novices have a hard time learning proper form and/or are too afraid of heavy weights.
>>35325768
I've finished SS. That pic was taken about 1-2 months before I finished and switched to an intermediate program. Keep making no gains. If I was you, I'd admit I was wrong, suck in my pride, abandon my bro-split, and go finish a novice program. You've no doubt have plenty of novice gains to make.
>>35325769
My point is that going to the gym just to do 3 exercises didn't feel enough for me and I had a lot of free time. Why not do a few more curls and some triceps work? I doubt what routine i do on the first 4-6 month of training even matters a lot since I will get them beginner gains.
"I like to take it up the ass"
Mark Rippetoe
"There is no such thing as 'firming and toning.' There is only stronger and weaker."
- Mark Rippletits
>>35325781
>loading 100lbs on to a weight belt and waddling to the parallel bars
Been doing this for years with no issues. Except looking stupid while waddling of course.
>>35325785
>The majority of people can reach a 1x to 1.5x bodyweight bench
1x bodyweight bench = unweighted dips. Pretty easy, right?
1.5x bw bench = much harder. And anybody who can do it, can do 0.5x bw weighted dips FOR REPS.
Honestly I don't even see how you can possible be disagreeing with any of this mate. I'm not trying to be a dick here - I think you should start doing more dips in your own training and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.
"Even I think ICF 3x5 is better than my routine"
-Mark Rippetoe
>>35325796
You seem a bit angry because you wasted precious time doing some meme workout when you could have made decent gains in that time lmao
I bet you even did GOMAD and posted and angry thread on /fit/ because all you did was getting fat
>>35325597
>how would i be able to get "decent" back and shoulders to "match" when i squat 3x a week in comparison?
Squats work your back as well.
>He didn't add accessorywork to his SS
>>35325597
>ss is shit for people who want a decent physique.
this myth needs to die seriously
>>35325781
>>stronger biomechanical position
>>dips
>That's why some many people injure themselve s doing them right?
The ability to express force and safety aren't the same thing, I'm afraid.
>>35325794
"A proper Squat is like gassing a family of Jews , painful but necessary"
Mark "empty my nine at the welfare line" Rippetoe
>>35325798
>3 exercises didn't feel enough for me
When you''re on SS and squatting 1.6x bodyweight, benching 1.1x bodyweight, and deadlifting 1.8x bodyweight for 3x5 and 1x5 and still adding weight on a workout to workout basis, you'll be extremely happy it's only 3.
Pic related is me. All I did was SS.
>SS is a meme
when does this meme die finally
>>35325808
You even agreed that the dip isn't equal to the bench press, what are you even arguing?
The movements have totally different pushing angles.
>>35325811
Do I look like I did GOMAD? Lets see your novice progress.
>>35325798
so you're going to do a shitty program just because you want to stay in the gym for a longer time?
>>35325808
I'm sorry, if you think you can add more weight to the dip than the bench, you're retarded. It's like arguing you can add more weight to an isolation exercise than a compound.
bruv it's called STARTING strength for a reason.
It is a waste of time after 3-6 months of lifting, true. But before that, it is GOAT to get your lifts up and stop being a faggot.
If your aim is to look good, just switch to PPL or some other hypertrophy routine after that. But for a complete noob, SS is the best way to get strong quick, teach him the basic lifts, build a good routine and tech him important basics of training.
Furthermore, looking better than a noob is not hard; so even on SS, noobs will look substantially better than before.
>>35325816
The movements are not equivalent though, there is absolutely no reason to replace one with the other.
>>35325658
>Even Rippletits admits he's wrong as fuck
>SS Defense Force still clings to him desperately
T-Rexes, everyone. Anything to justify their wasted time and energy.
>>35325825
I've never seen a picture of you, only some guy which you tried to impersonate. Now stop wasting your time, get a real lifting routine and start to lift dyel fatass.
>>35325850
Lmfao, that's my pic. Want me to post more novice progress pics?
So add some extra upper body exercises to starting strength
If you feel its lacking it
>>35325843
this.
It should also be noted that Rips has a second book for after starting strength.
>>35325849
>when I want to get my lol on I hit up fourchan.com bros!
>Hey mom I'm trolling again!
>>35325849
5/10 troel, go back to your brosplit
>>35325849
>being this retarded
He's obviously saying he's confident enough that the logic and theory behind SS is strong enough that people will decide to do it after evaluating the evidence. He has confidence in the routine.
Why is /fit/ so stupid?
>>35325834
Why is it a shitty program? I am seeing nice gains and I have lats now. I want to swap in 2 months to PHAT or PHUL anyway.
>>35325877
Because you're doing a program that wasn't designed for someone at your level. If you're a novice and you're doing a program for advanced lifters, you're not going about it the most efficient way. Yes, you'll build muscle, because you're lifting weights, but you won't do it as efficiently as you would on a novice program.
>>35325824
I was asking why somebody claimed the dip was harder to progress than the bench press. He said because bench pressing lets you handle more total weight. This is false.
>>35325840
We're talking about total weight - not added weight. Obviously.
>>35325877
"Get your deadlift up to 500. By then you'll have your own opinion and you won't have to worry about mine."
- Rippleytit
SS needs some slight adjustments and the two best adjustments are removing powercleans and replacing them with pendlay rows and chin ups, and replacing your last set with 5+.
Powercleans are not needed if you don't care about athleticism, and most of the narcissistic insecure fags on here do not.
>>35325732
I went from 60k to 95k over 4 years ish
Did starting strength for a year then Bill Stars 5x5 intermediate, fucked around with bro splits and stuff inbetween.
Pro tip- just do SS then Bill Stars 5x5 forever.
>>35325902
I meant for the first 2 pics. The last pic looks further on in time from the first two.
>>35325889
are you fucking serious? because he added a few assistance lifts he's now doing an advanced routine? what is going to happen now, an overtrainign boogeyman will come and steal his gains because he dared to pick an ez bar after completing his main lifts? you people are unbelieveable.
>>35325895
I think he's one of those motherfuckers who doesn't count the bar...
>>35325889
but anon ICF was designed for beginners like me
>>35325909
The second pic is at the same time as the one on the right.
Different angles breh
>>35325914
I didn't realize you were doing ICF. I'd switch it from 5x5 to 3x5 though. Icf is just SS with curls.
>>35325815
This strictly just SS? How long did it take?
>>35325873
>He did SS
Why are you so stupid?
>>35325798
My last month of SS was fuching brutal. The workouts took a like 1.5 - 2 hours and I had to wait 7-8 min in between sets. When you max your novice gains, you'll thank God it's only three (even if you don't believe in him).
>>35325895
Hm.
So you are saying it's easier to dip, say 2x bw than benchpress it?
I have never tried, but I believe it's hard to progress dips into high end as well as it becomes a lot subjective to how you judge a successfull dip rep.
Shoulder health is also a way bigger issue in the dip because you cannot get your shoulder in the same, safe position that you can get them into in the benchpress.
Cool that it works for your and I wish that it did for me because dips is a insanely good accessorie for the bench, but I bet most people will have trouble.
>>35325979
Well I couldn't say, I've never done more than a three plate dip. Still that was for reps and I don't expect to ever be able to hit 140kg in the bench press, even for a single. Except maybe with the Slingshot. A man can dream though.
People don't realize that SS is done when their CNS can't recover from a workout with 48 hrs of rest.
Can't squat the weight? Try again.
Can't squat it 3 workouts in a row? Deload 10%.
Deloaded 3 times and still stalled out 3 times at the same weight? Well how about that, there's a month or so that you've been stuck at the same squat weight while still being able to get your upper body lifts up and doing all your accessory work. If you're squatting about the same weight for a month then I guess that there t-rex mode was put on hold eh.
Can't do 5x3 anymore? switch to one top set of 5, or maybe even 3x3. Hell 3x3 may end up causing you to have another month or so of progress and strength gains since there's less time under the bar.
Stall out on 3x3? Try again.
Stalled out 3 times? Deload and work your way up.
People can switch to texas method, but that doesn't mean that starting strength as a program or training method has any issues with it. The hypothetical situation I just described along would add another month or two to the time you spent doing SS and add to the potential for gains.
That's just the squat too.
Deadlift could alternate sumo and conventional with diff weight for either.
Power clean can alternate with power snatch.
Bench could have its own days for incline, flat and decline.
OHP could alternate with push press.
That doesn't even consider all the different approaches for accessory work.
But y'know what? None of you assholes will ever get to the point of customizing your own training to that extent with any sort of longevity or discipline. If you were you wouldn't be on 4chan posting about le memes.
>>35325997
You dip with 140kg?
>>35325997
Well, how much do you weigh?
>>35325901
I care about athleticism
>>35325912
these fucking people man.
>>35326022
We're STILL talking total weight, you goddamn mongoloid! Jesus.
>>35325795
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSmvEDn4rdY
>>35326023
80 kg give or take.
>>35326038
So keep the powercleans.
>>35326022
when he's on the internet he does.
>>35326057
And you dip with an extra, what 30 - 40kg? After 5 years time of consistent training, what do you think is going to progress further, the bench or the dip? If you answer the latter, you're IQ is below the median.
>>35325332
When I didn't do it and just read some guy on /fit/s post about how splits are the best for everything.
>>35326079
>And you dip with an extra, what 30 - 40kg?
Do you even read the posts you reply to...? I'll let you figure out the answer yourself.
>what do you think is going to progress further, the bench or the dip?
Honestly, the exercise that I prioritize will be the exercise that sees the most progress. Obviously. Although there is pretty good carry-over from the dip to the bench press, in my experiece.
>If you answer the latter, you're IQ is below the median.
Why? No seriously, why? THAT was my starting question and it still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction. Some anon said because the bench press lets you handle more total weight. I maintain that this is false. In any case, it is for me.
So what other reason can you name? Why do you think I can keep progressing the bench press at a faster rate than the dip? Do you even have a reason? Do you even lift?
Surprise me, please.
>>35326134
If you think you can progress the dip as much as the bench in 5 years of consistent training, you're a retard and not worthy of engagement.
>>35325683
did u just make that post to talk about yourself? lmao, dickhead.
what accessories are good to add to SS
>>35326143
Well I'm coming up on my 6th year of training. But I take it you don't have a reason then.
On a side note, I think it's a little weird to call someone a "retard" or say their IQ is "below the median" for simply having a different opinion. I don't think you're a "retard" for disagreeing with me. I don't even know you. I'm sure you have your reasons, even though you don't want to share them, right, anon?
>>35326143
lol bro, all your previous posts are just basically screaming and name calling.
how about you try to be a little more likeable? :))
>>35326175
The fact that the bench press has a higher potential for progressive overload is not even arguable.
>>35326198
I give up. Have a nice life, anon.
>>35326208
The heaviest dip of all time is about 180kg. The heaviest bench of all time is 335kg. Next.
About 9 months into SS when I started stalling on my benching 110 for 5x4, squatting 155 for 5x4 and diddlylifting 180x4.
Now on the Texas method, strongest dude in the gym by far at 86kg and look pretty decent without any gear.
The SS is a troll meme needs to die lads pls you're keeping people from their gainz
>>35326157
Dips on OHP day
Pull Ups on Bench day
>>35326224
>He doesn't trick people into doing shit routines so they'll always stay inferior to you
Survival of the /fit/test, nigga
>>35326212
180kg added for the dip?
When i started on candito's 6 week program.
Put 25 pounds on my DL and 20 pounds on my squat in 1.5 months. Real shit, nigga.
Im a long time lurker of fit and 4chan in general. Ive made decent gainz for the past 2 years on SS, hitting lmao 1/2/3/3.5 for my lifts even with few adjustments to my diet and missing weeks of lifting at a time. Only adjustment i have made to the program is i did highbar instead. I did plent of accessories as well, because they are PART OF THE PROGRAM. this thread has made me seriously consider leaving this board forever. The amount of shitposting, false information, and plain ignorance is astounding. You should all be ashamed, some of you should consider becoming an hero.
>>35326257
But breh when the race war comes will you want a curlbro fighting by your side or a solid, thick, tight lad?
>>35326261
Yes by a guy that weighed 90kg.
>>35326298
Pretty close though, don't you think?
>>35326134
what do you mean handle more weight? can you explain this explicitly i.e I weigh 80kg and dip with 50, while benching 100kg. i think the confusion is because most people dont consider bodyweight when dipping but it makes senses to do so.
>>35326316
The majority of people will never get near that. They'll end up blowing their shoulders up dipping before they even get to 50% of that. Most people could bench 180kg x1 quite safely (with steroids and consistent training).
A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Chins 15-20 total reps, add weight or use assisted.
Rows 3x5 SUPER STRICT.
Optional: Cable rows, 3x8 bicep work, 3x8 rear delt flyes, do this at your own discretion. If you don't feel like it, don't worry
B
Front squat 3x5
MP 3x5
Deadlifts 1x5
Optional: 15-20 reps of dips, 3x8 tricep work
is this the best SS variant?
>>35326212
That's hardly a fair comparison considering the fact that one lift is part of an actual sport of growing popularity with a record set by a Russian freakbeast, while the other lift isn't even considered a competition lift in ANY sport. And STILL the total amount of weight lifted in that dip isn't THAT far behind the bench press, in spite of that.
Regardless however, I will admit that if you're willing/able to eat (and/or juice) yourself into the superheavy weight class, THEN the bench press probably does have more potential for progression than the dip.
>>35326335
Swap MP for push press and lower the dip volume to 8
>>35326321
>it makes senses to do so
It most certainly does. And it makes no sense not to. I mean, it's not like you see anybody saying that they can only do "15 kg pull-ups". That's 15 kgs in addition to your bodyweight, obviously. And the same goes for dips.
>>35326330
I know it's just an anecdote, but I know a guy who @ 100 kg bodyweight benches 160 kgs and does dips with 4 plates. That means he's handling more weight in the dip than in the bench press.
Also, no offense, but I think you're greatly underestimating what it takes to bench 180. I'm inclined to agree that most people could do it with "steroids", but NOT with any sane or remotely healhy approach. Your shoulders might survive but your organs wouldn't.
>>35326350
>push press
why the push press?
and regarding dips isn't 8 a bit too low?
>>35326395
180kg is very weak tier for a roiding powerlifter.
It's advanced-elite but tier for natties, depending on the weight it can also be pro / wr tier obviously.
>>35326433
How are 8 reps low?
>>35326268
>improved your dl
nigga pls that programs only good for squats
>>35326434
>180kg is very weak tier for a roiding powerlifter.
I disagree. It's weak tier for a super heavyweight on dubious amounts of roids.
For an 80 or 90 kg dude who's just taken a few bites of forbidden fruit, 180 kgs is still extremely heavy.
I think you're basing your opinion on what you see on the internet rather than what real life is actually like. No offense, but I do happen to train a pretty serious powerlifting gym.
>>35325625
>powerlifting (which is what SS is
>>35325618
then why not do close grip bench?
fuggg :----DDDD
I followed the SS path for four years and wouldn't change a thing if I could start over again.
I did SS until I stalled out, then Texas Method until I stalled out, then progressed on Hepburn.
For me I like going into the gym with a goal in mind. Last sessions I lifted X, today I'm going to lift Y. I enjoy the logical progression and the easily definable progress. I also like that it never feels like I'm just working out or repeating the same thing over and over again, the lifting is a means to an end rather than the end itself.
But if you aren't interested in learning how to do compound lifts properly and getting very strong, do something else.
To say it's ineffective is just plain wrong. It is about as effective as a routine can possibly get in achieving its stated goals.
>>35326493
What's Hepburn?
>>35326520
An advanced powerlifting routine.
ABxABxx
A Squat 8x2
Bench 8x2
B Deadlift 8x2
OHP 8x2
Every session you turn one of the 8 sets of 2 into a set of 3. So your goal is to end up doing 8x3 in each lift. Once you can do 8x3, you add 10lbs and go back to 8x2.
Once you're doing Hepburn you're basically on the slow 'n steady gains train until you hit your natty peak.
>>35326013
can you link me to something which summarizes the methods?
ive read the book but only digested the if you fail 2x deload by 10%
im just looking for something succinct which outlines SS
the wiki was confusing
thanks m8
>>35326472
I don't know what type of lifter you are talking about when you describe them with "taken a bite from the forbidden fruit".
I am talking about a competetive powerlifter that competes in an utested fed.
People dont "take a bite" there, they roid to neccessary amounts to be competetive and that's it.
I am not talking about peple that tried a cycle (for whatever reason) and then do one every other year.
When my legs for fuckin huge and my upper body didn't
>>35326586
You don't need a link, it's the simplest principle in all of lifting/fitness in general.
Every single session your goal is to do more than you could before. You do three sets of five reps to start and you keep doing that for as long as you can. When you find that you can't do your three sets of five reps in a particular lift, it might just be because you were tired, or a little sick, or just having a shitty day, so try again next time. Still can't do it? Try again a third time. If you still can't do it then you need to deload 10% and work back up.
The principle of deloading 10% is that you keep lifting but the few sessions working back up through the slightly lower weight allows your central nervous system to recover a little better.
When you've worked your way back up to where you previously failed, you should be able to keep progressing a little further.
When you find deloading doesn't work and you've genuinely hit a plateau, it's time to change the programming.
At this point you have a choice of how to progress. So long as you're doing more each workout than you did before, it doesn't really matter too much how you go about it.
Like the previous poster said, if you're struggling to do three sets of five you can say ok, from now on I'm only going to do one set of five. So I'll do two heavy warmups and then just one max effort set. And if you manage to do that one set of five, add weight next time. Keep adding weight until you reach the same problem as earlier, and then deload 10% as you did before.
When you plateau again, change it again. This time I'm only going to do sets of 3. So instead of one heavy set of 5 - which you keep failing - now I only have to do three reps, which I can do. Again, keep adding weight until you cant any more.
Next you can try doing singles. So maybe do one set of five, one set of three and one set of one rep. Keep doing that until you cant any more.
Working in that way can keep you progressing for a year.
>>35326602
>I am talking about a competetive powerlifter that competes in an utested fed.
Naw mate, you were talking about "most people".
>>35325332
When I stopped making consistent gains every session.
WeW one serious answer out of 185
>>35326653
I said
>180kg is very weak tier for a roiding powerlifter.
I don't get how that is "most people".
>>35326586
The central and most important principle of SS is recovery. So if you cant do a lift, dont keep trying over and over again and spinning your wheels. It's not that you're weak or shit or need to 'try harder' it's that your body isn't capable of recovering in the time between gym days.
So as soon as you reach that point where it feels like a grind, stop grinding and do whatever you need to do to get back to those nice weeks where you were slapping weight on the bar every sessions and plugging along nicely.
For most people that involves de-loading to let your body recover. Later it will involve doing less overall work but at a higher intensity, so fewer reps per set or fewer total sets, but still adding weight.
Eventually you'll reach a point where adding weight every session just isn't possible regardless of how many reps or sets you're doing. At that point you need to start looking into weekly progression instead of daily progression and try out programs like Texas Method of Madcow 5x5 or whatever you like the look of.
So long as you're not trying to do the same lift that you've been failing over and over again you'll do fine.
>>35326493
What were your aesthetic gains like?
This is my problem, there's so much clarity in how to become strong, but no one can seem to agree what will give you the best size and shape.
I'm currently just going with a standard fullbody strength routine with accessory lifts to improve certain areas, but god knows whether this is right.
>>35326667
Sorry then, thought that was you further up in the thread. Some anon said "most people" could hit a 180kg bench and it went from there.
You are new to lifting? Do SS because its a solid basic program that will give you good results.
Feel like you have enough experience/basic build? Move on to different routines.
What is so difficult about this faggots? If you don't like SS, don't do it then, good luck finding other programs, go Crossfit or do some crazy gimmicky routine. No one gives a shit.
We recommend SS because it has been tested over and over again with success. We don't care about your opinion over it, opinions are not results.
>>35326723
>We recommend
>We don't care
>Implying you are everyone
>Implying you are the guy behind /fit/ with knowledge
>Implying you are not a dyel
>>35326807
You can kick and scream as much as you want dude. You can try to meme it up and throw shit around like an angry monkey.
In the end you will get nothing out of complaining about SS here. Every week there is a little fairy faggot wanting to rewrite the sticky, yet its still there and has helped a lot of anons.
>>35326823
Helped a lot of anons become fatties more like lmao
Would it be alright to add these acc exercises to SS:
Day A
Chest pullover
Bent over rows
Day B
Chin ups
Lateral raises
??
pic not related
>>35325547
O-only in my first year??
>tfw spent my 1st year yo-yoing my metabolism by failed cut and failed bulk
>>35326823
You and your narcissistic mind should keep doing SS then. Glutes for the sloots r-right?
>>35326681
Aesthetic gains were as good as they could physically have been. I was on a program that involved never ending progression. Obviously some people like to train differently and some like to 'feel the burn' or do 10 reps or 12 or 15 or lots of different exercises for different muscles or whatever. I'm not going to argue because I'm not a fucking scientist and at the end of the day the best program is probably the one you enjoy the most, so you continue to have motivation to hit the gym.
But for me I really liked the scientific approach of always trying to improve four big lifts. I enjoy the simplicity of knowing that everything I'm doing is to be stronger than I was before.
I'm not aware of anyone who has an impressively strong bench, OHP, squat and deadlift and doesn't have an extremely muscular physique, even if said muscle is buried under fat due to their eating habits. It's just not possible.
When you can clean your own body weight from the floor and press it over your head for five reps, I'm not buying that anyone can possibly do that and not look great; again assuming you maintain a reasonable level of leanness.
To answer your question I'd just go with a standard full body routine and drop the accessory lifts. You don't need them and they'll just get in the way. Focus on getting as strong as possible and you'll look the part. Remember you don't have to worry about being aesthetic you just have to worry about pushing that bar over your head and when you're the strongest person in your gym the aesthetics will be there as a natural side effect.
>>35326224
Friendo those figures are absolute shithouse for 9 months of SS. Are you sure you're counting the weight of the bar?
>>35326274
pls don't claim to be doing the rips when you're highbar squatting. You're not.
>>35326335
just do the wichita falls novice training program fgt
>>35326605
you look perfectly proportionate anon
What's an MP?
>>35327046
He means in kg in you tit. And those numbers are the top range of what you can expect from SS.
>>35326908
Pls respond
>>35325516
SS or SL + accessories
Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 is basically SL with a few bodybuilding arm work at the end
>>35325591
60 pounds a month on your squat is sustainable for a year? You're a fucking idiot.
>>35325516
Really any routine that works all your muscle groups is fine, it's not like you're not gonna get any gains from a certain routine, you're still exercising. Don't fall for the "strength base" bullshit, the body doesn't work that way, you can gain strength as you gain mass, you don't have to go 8 months looking like shit because you want to build a "strength base"
>>35325332
I never regretted it, aesthetically I look fit and feel good, but the biggest difference it has made was at work. The strength gains you make are functional and help out with common tasks. Its made my everyday life much easier and "dollar for dollar " a very good routine. There is no end all workout program, as they all have different focuses and end goals. It sounds like ss didn't meet your criteria, that doesn't mean it won't match someone else's. But that's not what your made this thread for, you just wanted affirmation that its outside factors at work and not your own shit genetics
>>35325365
Lol monkeys
>>35325365
>>35325552
>>35325604
Fucking morons
That experiment never happened. It's just a crock of shit that proves people who believes the story without checking sources are the real idiot mass who will believe whatever the fuck they read as long as they wanna believe it.
>>35325616
>I have never done cardio before
kek no wonder he died
How reliable is this?
>>35328698
It looks sort of complicated. 3 Exercises for chest in one day.
What is a hamstring extension?
SS is a fucking scam
>>35325555
real question though.
why cant i just do ss with extras forever. i dont get what makes ppl or phul better after a 3day routine.
So what's the fool proof PPL routine that you should do after/instead of SS?
>>35325901
You're already supposed to do chins in the default program though
>>35329894
Because it is linear progression. This is a key defining aspect.
And linear progression runs out.
If it didn't, people would have never invented cranes or catapults, they would simply pick shit up with their hands and throw it if needed.
>>35329894
You're supposed to keep adding weight to the bench, squat, press, and deadlift on a session by session basis until you can't. You can only do that for a about 6 - 12 months because eventually the stress you're applying to your body is too much for you to recover from. Then you switch to an intermediate program.
>>35325365
except that's bullshit unrelated shit and ss works until it doesn't, and is probably optimal if you aren't a fucktard.
could you do more? sure, but not much.
>>35326013
this post doesn't mention high-rep hypertrophy training as an ancillary to strength. silly anon, you might have missed the fucking point.
>>35325472
>Squat 3x5
>OHP 3x5
>Deadlift 1x5
add in
>pulldown/chin 3x5-8
>curls 3x5-8
>chest flyes 3x8-12
>some other shit, abs n calves, some Lateral delt work
BOOM GAINS STRENGTH AND SIZE
Brosplits are better than SS
I don't know about you faggots but I actually feel good about my workout with Brosplitting. SS is a fucking joke. Just 3 exercises seriously? I hardly feel DOMs afterward.
Brosplits are simply superior for overall aesthetics.
>>35325532
>milk out
>>35333898
Then you're no longer doing SS.
>>35325332
When scoopy put mark in his fitness hall of shsme
>>35335174
That's weird, because all of those listed exercises are explained in one of the chapters of SS
Why the fuck are you trying to criticize a book without reading it?
>>35331905
okay so why cant i just keep doing it like the other routines without linear progression. just keep deloading whenever i miss a set.
>>35331937
y so why cant i keep doing the ss routine without expecting the linear progression.
wont it just give the same results as an intermediate program ?
>>35335075
>Just 3 exercises seriously?
It's not about the number of exercises but about how hard are them. Also DOMs do not indicate anything regarding muscle growth.
>tfw bought 5x5 gym equipment for home
>can't back out because I've already invested
>>35336999
Because nobody can sustain a perfect linear progression forever. It's impossible to keep lifting progressively heavier weights 3x5 forever. Eventually the method of progression and how you force adaptation needs to change. That's why more advanced programs change other variables like volume, intensity, frequency etc to maintain progression.
>>35337316
Isley (George seegar - deadlifts 290kg and went to IPF worlds and came 3rd) told me all you need to get strong is 3x5 and it works no matter how advanced you are.
Obviously add if 2.5kg a session doesn't work, but 3x5 is literally all you need.
>>35337316
i said dont do linear progression with them
>>35325516
It's still SS you retard
>>35325547
>You can gain 2lbs of muscle per month natty in your first year
lol ... nigga you are retarded. Do your research.
You might gain 1 lbs of muscle. If you gain 2 you are a genetic wonder.
Hodge Twins gained 25-30 lbs of muscle in 4 years of lifting and you claim anyone can gain 24 in his first year lol-
>>35337327
>Isley (George seegar - deadlifts 290kg and went to IPF worlds and came 3rd)
*placed 3rd in the deadlift. He came last or second last in his weightclass overall. Also as a fun anecdote, he did a program based on 3*5 leading up to english junior nationals, and he didn't put a single kg to his total.
>>35336999
Because you will stall forever and then get injured because you're constantly doing max effort sets. Also you won't gain any noticable muscle mass since your body doesn't need to adapt to a new stress.
>>35337396
There are much more efficient methods than just hammering away at 3x5 every session though. Eventually you will hit a wall with it. If you persevere with it for years and hit a certain weight you'd almost certainly be at a higher weight using another method. SS forever is far from optimal after a certain amount of adaptation has taken place.
But if you really want to do it then go for it.
>>35337327
Are you suggesting microloading for major compounds? Changing only the intensity? You'd have much more success adjusting other variables like volume. TM for example has you do 5x5 on volume day at around 90% of your 5RM. That's a much bigger dose of stress than if you'd added a little bit of weight and stuck to 3x5.
for example if your 5RM is 150kg your volume day would be 5x5 at 135kg for a total of 3375kg.
If you microloaded that and added say 2kg you'd have done 3x5x152kg for a total of 2280kg.
The higher number of sets at a lower weight gives a much higher dose of stress to force adaptation.
"SS is just a meme and even 4chan fell for it" - Mark Rippetoe
>>35328698
>skullcrusher
>novice
gl bro
>>35326251
Ive been dipping on bench day and pull-ups on OHP day, it kinda separates the push exercises from the pull exercises, why do you do it your way?
>>35325526
See this is why this board pisses me off. I never know you are all serious or trolling. Jesus Christ can we admit a good routine and just be done with it.
SS is a good routine for skeletons that need to gain mass and a "starting" strength. (no GOMAD if already fat)
SSL is good for aesthetics and making gains.
>>35325332
When i discovered upper lower splits.
>>35337712
All "aesthetics" routines that comes from /fit/ is just SS with less squats and curls added. Do you really think it makes that much of a difference what you do the first 3-4 months? If someone just gains a lot of bodyweight and trains his whole body with high volume he will get aesthetic(after cutting if he doesn't do a really slow bulk).
no idea why people dont do a PPL split without squats/deadlifts
a newbie is going to injure themselves doing deadlifts, or squats
besides, if you only care about aesthetics then isolations along with compound movements are far better
>>35338023
>a retard is going to injure themselves doing deadlifts, or squats
ftfy
>>35337453
>If you microloaded that and added say 2kg you'd have done 3x5x152kg for a total of 2280kg.
Not to mention those reps would most likely have been ground out due to being close to your max.
quality reps at 90% of your max are worth far more than grinded reps trying to set a new max every time IMO.
>>35338023
I was a newbie who started with squats and DL and I've never once injured myself. I've had aches and pains because I'd never trained a day in my life at 30 years old, but an injury? nope.
I like to think it's because I'm not a dumb fuck.
>>35338095
Most newbies are retarded at lifting. Why recommend something to them that's the most likely to hurt them?
>>35326908
pls respond
>>35338415
Retards should not lift at all in the first place, just tell them do do cardio and eat less.
I actually started applying his principles of progression to bodyweight movements. I'm very close to planche pushups and one arm chin ups.
I can already to multiple handstand pushups.
Very interesting results.
>>35338711
post video of handstand pushups
>>35338730
I'm going to make an instagram when I get my one arm chin, and I'll post most of my stuff then..
Hspu is not an impressive benchmark, by the way.
