My shoulder's fucked up, yo! But I don't know why.
Two weeks ago my clavicle started hurting (bad posture when writing an essay), in a few days it was better and I was benching again (OHP was still out of question) and it was healing fine.
Yesterday it was basically almost gone, but, after spending the evening and the night in front of the computer, when I went to bed it was sort of uncomfortable again, sharp pain as if your nerve hurts.
This morning a fucking awful pain woke me up out of the blue for no reason whatsoever, the clavicle hurts more than before and what's more, my shoulder joint hurts as if it was grinding against two concrete walls anytime I move it.
I wasn't in the gym yesterday nor did I do anything that would put strain on my shoulder or clavicle. I was in the gym on Friday and Thursday, benching both days but it was all fine, the clavicle didn't hurt.
I googled the symptoms and there was something about cold shoulder, but that's supposed to take years to develop, this appeared out of the blue. Nor does it seem to be tendonitis.
Also, supinating, pronation and rotation of the wrist eases the pain too.
tldr: shoulder's fucked without reason help
>>35233672
See a doctor and stretch daily
>>35233747
won't have a chance to see one for at least a week
And stretching is obvious
Should've visited a doctor ages ago you mongrel
>>35233814
>Should've visited a doctor ages ago you mongrel
But there was no reason.
As I said the clavicle was healing just fine and I knew what had caused it.
However now it's a fucking mystery. It literally happened while I was sleeping.
>I was benching again (OHP was still out of question)
fool
>>35233822
As I said, it was healing fine and I properly tested it.
If it wasn't possible I wouldn't do it, I don't hate myself.
My bench is some 80kg so it's not that much and as I've been healing with pulled back muscle for the past 2 months because I was fucking around and couldn't deadlift, I really didn't just jump under the bench, loaded 80kg and benched it raw, I tried it out slowly and only once my clavicle didn't hurt that much.
1200 mg of ibu throughout the day, it's most likely inflammation due to impingement.
Let me tell you where you went wrong:
You didn't train external shoulder rotation for at least 100ish reps a week.
You didn't face pull.
You didn't react to obvious muscle imbalances that you are facing - train your lats every session, midly volume on non-back days a and high volume on back days.
You didn't stretch your obviously short pec daily.
You need to post a form video of your bench too.
>>35233856
My gym is a rather basic one, no machines, one rack, one bench station, that's it, so:
How to train external shoulder rotation?
I can't face pull, any alternatives?
I do train my lats, not much, though, as I was out of DL for a while. However, I did do push-ups with legs on plates which targets lats and back quite well. And I was actually DLing for the first time in 3 months on Thursday. Light weight it may have been but I could feel my back responding well.
Does the fact that I can't connect my hands behind my back (one going from the top and the other from the bottom) shows short pecs? Because if so, yeah.
Won't be until Thursday, however I think that my bench form is good. I'm tight, I feel my chest, a bit of lats. I used to have some problems with my shoulder when unracking and racking the bar, but ever since I learnt how to properly tighten, it's been fine.
Also, before lifting I stretch my shoulders, I used to have painful shoulder (the other one) and couldn't OHP without it popping like crazy, so I'm quite wary about them. I do the basic stuff: rotating like a windmill, pushing it behind my back from the top, pushing it to the side across chest, holding onto a barbell and bending over as to stretch shoulders and chest.
i had a similar problem to you.
shoulder joint feels kind like its grinding/burning a little right?
take a week off ANYTHING to do with shoulders, even the slightest thing
when you come back, focus the first week on doing rotator cuff/ shoulder stabilisation excersises. The one i find the most effective/ best feeling is:
http://www.allpickleball.com/jennifersblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/external1.jpghttp://www.allpickleball.com/jennifersblog/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/external1.jpg
but with a dumbbell in my hand so the force is down, not across.
basically, keep your elbow to your side and squeeze a little when you reach the end of your ROM, dont try to go too far, just make sure your rotator cuff is working.
also focus on back a lot more, make sure you warmup before doing any shoulder lifting from now on using 3 or more sets of around 20+ reps of cable rows
>>35233927
Listen, go buy ibu right now or go to a doc and get a shot in the shoulder, that's the first thing.
The inflammation thickens the tendon and the impingement stacks the effect.
About the rest:
Get a rubber band, do face pulls and external rotation with it.
For rotation you could also lie on the side on a bench and use a dumbbell to rotate the shoulder.
You need to hit your lats with rows / pull-ups / pull downs, not deadlift.
Go ahead and do all of this once you're recovered.
>my shoulders fucked up, yo!
is this some kind of rap song of something???
>>35233753
>won't have a chance to see one for at least a week
There are doctors EVERYWHERE. Stop giving excuses and go see one.
>>35233856
>You didn't train external shoulder rotation for at least 100ish reps a week.
>You didn't face pull.
>You didn't react to obvious muscle imbalances that you are facing - train your lats every session, midly volume on non-back days a and high volume on back days.
>You didn't stretch your obviously short pec daily.
>You need to post a form video of your bench too.
best post ive seen here for quite some time.
listen to this advice OP and everyone else with shoulder issues (and frequent benchers).
>>35233846
I called you fool because you are quicker to bench than to press despite having a penchant for fucking up your shoulder. Chicken or egg?
>>35233968
hai, so desu.
>>35233955
Thanks m8.
>>35233966
Will do, thanks a lot.
>>35233980
Thursday, probably. I'll buy ibu Monday or Tuesday the latest.
>>35234023
But I couldn't press. I was easily able to bench, but when pressing, the clavicle would hurt a bit and feel uncomfortable and I was afraid to push properly as in not to fuck it up.
>>35233985
Thanks lad, took me good time of self experimenting to figure this all out and I am really happy with it.
Nice to see that there are still a few considerate people on fit that put thought into their training.
Godspeed!
>>35234037
And how much do you press?
Jesus man, i'm trying to help you. Your shoulder is most likely hurting because your whole girdle is weak and unbalanced.
>>35233856
>>35233985
>le external rotation meme
confirmed for not overhead pressing correctly and enough
>>35234062
>girdle
I don't know what that is but according to google it's sexy as fuck, thanks for porn idea.
My press is 47 kg, haven't pressed in a month or so now, though. I don't eat enough when in dorms, I lift twice a week and I wanted to focus on bench now because I was stalling (due to me not eating enough... I need to get my shit together, I know that, and I'm slowly getting there, spending more on food and so on...).
When at dorms in uni town I do bodyweight so I sort of do press in the form of handstand push-ups.
>>35234102
Rotation exercises are fantastic for joints and a great form of physical therapy that can be applied to any age group. Kill yourself if you think it's just a meme.
>>35234103
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_girdle
>https://www.t-nation.com/training/get-your-press-up
>47kg press
I'm attached to a SOF unit. There are some days where 4 o clock rolls around 3 or 4 times and I can only eat cold, astronaut food. I still make it happen.
>>35234112
rotation exercises are a stupid meme invented by physical therapists who misunderstand the functions of the rotator cuff musculature.
The question is: what is the normal daily role of a rotator cuff muscle? Does it make your shoulder externally rotate, and that's all? Or does it primarily function as a muscle group that stabilizes the head of the humerus in its socket, the "glenoid fossa"? Think about it another way: who named it "external rotator"? God? Or physical therapists? Maybe a better name for it would be the keeps-the-arm-in-the-shoulder-ator, and it also just happens to externally rotate the arm. When you're not in physical therapy, the rotator cuff muscles are just another muscle group that helps hold the shoulder together.
There Is No Single Muscle Group in the Entire Human Body That Works in Isolation as Its Normal Function: Not even your tongue. It therefore makes no sense to train muscles in a way in which they do not function. Physical therapists may be able to isolate your rotator cuff muscles, but you may have noticed that this motion is not a normal part of your day.
If the cuff muscles work during a press (they do), and if they are aided in their function by all the other muscles in the shoulder (they are), then as the progressively heavier press makes the shoulder stronger, it makes the rotator cuff muscles stronger too. It is much better to strengthen the cuff muscles while their shoulder-muscle friends help lock out a press, than when they are made to work all alone, all by their skinny little selves in the PT office.
>>35234119
My press is 47 because I hasn't trained it in quite some time. I could be probably over 50 now. As I said, it's not like I don't train my shoulders at all, the handstand pushups are a great exercise as well.
Yeah, I know, I still go to the gym and train, maybe I'm making a slow progress, but I am making progress which is what matters to me.
>>35234102
What are you on about?
I can train my RC muscles way more directly by doing external rotation than doing OHP.
And doing external rotation doesn't fuck with my bench volume programming.
Let's forget about how OHPing fucks with programming, what makes it an effective RC muscles exercise?
Explain.
>>35234152
47 or 50, whatever it is still shit for someone that claims to attend the gym.
GUARANTEE your shoulder pain will not reappear if you prioritized your presses differently.
>>35234125
I had this discussion with you or someone like minded already, and in the end he couldn't answer the logical fallacy that he created:
If the RC muscles are best trained by using them in exercises that require them to hold the shoulder in place - then why is it not sufficient by training them with a heavy bench?
In the bench press the RC muscles also have to hold the shoulder together, otherwise shit like OPs story happens - so what's the problem then?
>>35234172
>is still shit for someone that claims to attend the gym.
Well it's not like I've been lifting for two years, as I said my bench is just 80kg.
And yeah, when I had problems with my right shoulder cause by years of bad posture at pc rendering it weak, I did shrugs and that helped a lot.
I stopped doing them but I'll probably pick them up again.
As I said, I really need to get my shit together at the gym.
byiané, oppa.
>>35234154
read >>35234125
it makes no sense that the RC musculature would be trained more directly through external rotation, since external rotation does not happen in regular life. think about evolution, there's no need to do strict external rotation. it's performed as a secondary function by muscles that have other primary functions.
think about internal rotation. pecs and lats are the main internal rotators, yet its not their primary function. likewise, the infraspinatus, supraspinatus and teres minor are surely loaded heavier in an OHP than a face pull.
>>35234175
benching is not as demanding on the RC musculature since the scapula is locked in place. and no, OP's problems are likely not because of his RC musculature failing in the bench, it's just shitty technique.
>>35234197
and to further expand the bench vs ohp rc stuff, benching might fuck your shit up due to shoulder impingement. its not cause the musculature fails, its because the rc tendons get beat up impinging on the acromion if your technique is bad. ohp doesn't fix this but it will ease up the impingement because it's often harder to impinge your shit in the ohp and working the impinged muscles often helps heal things up. ohp works that musculature harder so it's ofc better than just benching.
>>35234197
See, let's put together what you are claiming:
- externally rotating the shoulder does not strengthen the RC muscles
This is bullsshit because it does, the muscles get worked and they become stronger and bigger.
A stronger and bigger muscle can also do a better job and stabilizing something than a weak, small one.
Do you disagree?
- heavy bench presser do not need to train their RC muscles because they are not strained as much as in the OHP
Generations of powerlifters and literally everyone strong I have ever talked to disagrees - not training RC muscles while benching heavy is murder.
You are telling me that OHPing is better than externally rotating the shoulder which is wrong.
OPH is a heavy, taxing and error prone exercise that takes time to learn too.
And then it fucks with upper recovery and volume, decreasing the amount of bench pressing that can be done and thus limiting the bench press progress.
So you are comparing something like OHP that has numerous heavy disadvantages to the trainee to something like externally rotating the shoulder which has the same or let's say sufficient effect and no consequences.
>>35234267
>externally rotating the shoulder does not strengthen the RC muscles
never claimed that
>Do you disagree?
no, but the OHP does a better job of strengthening the RC muscles since the load is heavier and the muscles work in their primary function. you wouldnt train your pecs and lats doing internal rotations, would you?
>heavy bench presser do not need to train their RC muscles because they are not strained as much as in the OHP
what the hell?
> not training RC muscles while benching heavy is murder.
true, thats why they should overhead press more.
>You are telling me that OHPing is better than externally rotating the shoulder which is wrong.
how is it wrong?
>OPH is a heavy, taxing and error prone exercise that takes time to learn too.
heavy and taxing, sure. thats the point. error prone? [citation needed]
>And then it fucks with upper recovery and volume, decreasing the amount of bench pressing that can be done and thus limiting the bench press progress.
if you compete, then you might have to prioritize things. but that doesn't mean everyone (especially OP) should prioritize benching and sacrifice other lifts for it. anyway, OHPing will increase your bench too, its not such a tradeoff you make it to be.
>>35234312
Let me construct the logical fallacy once again that made me claim that you said
>heavy benchers do not need to train their RC muscles
So, you are saying, that: OHPing strengthens the RC muscles perfectly because the movement pattern of the exercises requires these muscles to hold the shoulder together.
Fine, so far, so good.
I am telling you that in the bench press, the need to do the same thing, even if it is as you claim to a lesser extent.
But if they are required to do the same job in the bench press then bench pressing should work them to the same amount that is needed to make them strong enough to hold the shoulder together in the bench press.
To someone that is looking to effectively increase their bench press, OHPing is indeed a a trade off.
Switching out bench sets and replacing them with OHP is suboptimal for bench press progress and will result in a slower progress for the bench press.
I personally am at not more than a 150kg 1 RM competition bench yet, but so far externally rotating has done a perfect job for my bench and my shoulder is in really good state.
I had a time where my shoulder hurt and that was when I barely benches 2 pl8.
Working RC muscles has fixed this.
Dropping external rotations for a few weeks brings my shoulder I a shitty and hurt state.
I agree with you, that, for someone that doesn't prioritize the bench as much, OPHIng can do great work for the RC muscles a as replace external rotations.
But to anyone that does, external rotation is the better option.
And even if that's debatable, calling external rotation a meme because of possible alternatives is over the top.
>>35234312
And by error prone I meant tactical and thus easy to fuck up.
Performing it wrong can be dangerous and hurting, just like the bench press.
That's what I mean.
It adds complexity.
>>35233672
Judging by that drawing it's your mental retardation you should be more worried about.
Was drawing a vagina part of your plan?
>>35234381
>make them strong enough to hold the shoulder together in the bench press.
where'd you get this from? ive never said ohping will keep your shoulder bench-proof or anything. just about nothing but proper technique will if the problem is impingement, like it usually is. ohp will only alleviate the pain. its like squatting with serious buttwink and then rehabbing your back with reverse hypers. its not like doing planks to make your core stronger to prevent that buttwink.
your anecdotal experience is a cool story, but i never said external rotations couldnt work. i said ophing is usualyl better. and i have a hard time believing ohping (properly) or benching with better form couldnt have fixed things either. not to mention ur bias and placebo.
>calling external rotation a meme because of possible alternatives is over the top.
calling it a meme is a meme, but my point is OHP works the musculature better and thus is a better choice. also, many external rotations like face pulls put the shoulder in a position that can risk impingement depending on the type of your acromion. you might get away with it but others might well not.
>>35234385
>easy to fuck up.
not really, ive just about never seen or heard of anyone getting hurt in the OHP other than due to bad form i.e. not learned the lift properly. bench has a way higher risk of impingement and stuff like that even if done properly. not the same things.
>>35234448
Let's agree to disagree, it's exhaustive to type this all out on the phone.
I personally am doing really well with external rotations and so are numerous, other powerlifter, a few of which I know personally and a lot from plg.
OHP is not an option to me because it ruins my programming and thus bench progres.
Many other powerlifter have reported the same and that is why it's in barely any popular programming.
To everyone else OHPing might be an option.
stop benching, it's good for nothing
>>35234404
Yes.
Are you big enough a guy?
>>35234397
Oh, yeah, right, my drawn-by-mouse-mspaint drawing skills are definitely a point tha needs adressing.
