Two twins brothers start working out. They are exactly the same, same height, same weight, they start from the exact same point.
Brother 1 and brother 2 start doing the same exact routine, BUT
1) Brother 1 is very meticulous and he does the exercise with perfect form, powerful fast contraption - slow controlled inverse movement, he microloads, he reset 20% the weight when stalling etc.
2) Brother 2 wants to not look like a bitch ass faggot at the gym dealing with small weights so he uses like 10-20% more than his brother weight but of course he struggle a lot more. He use bigger intervals, fail reps, he cheats when he get fatigued during curls and whatnot swinging all the way and getting momentum.
They do this shit for one year.
Who will get more gains in the end?
>>35144201
>Who will get more gains in the end?
The one who didn't browse /fit/
>>35144201
also: brother 2
>>35144201
Probably brother 2.
For all that we talk about form, routine and diet.... 90% of the results are from sheer bloody minded effort.
>>35144213
This, 2bh
Neither, they're both wasting time with their inferior genetics
>>35144222
Since I'm brother 1, I just want to understand how really important is the shit like form, tempo and such. It's not like I don't move weights, but if I have to do all by the book of course I will lift weight in the end holy shit
Brother 2, until he gets injured
>>35144201
>Who will get more gains in the end?
In the end? Definitely brother 1. When you begin training, some very critical motor learning is taking place - This is the main reason why your numbers go up so quickly in the beginning - If you routinely let your form go to shit, it will hurt your long-term progress. 2 years from the get-go, brother 2 will be struggling due to poor form that he can't seem to improve (because it's been so heavily ingrained) and nagging injuries for the same reason.
That being said, mindset and effort trumps all - just not at the expense of the basics such as good form.
Note: It doesn't fucking matter what form you use on curls, even if one is better than another - we're talking about the big compound exercises here that should NOT be taken past the point of technical breakdown, period. If you do this as a beginner, your motor learning goes to shit. If you do it once you're stronger, your risk of injuring yourself is amplified manyfold.
These are facts.
It's an interesting question, but some of the particulars are a bit odd.
But probably One, because Two snaps his shit up three months in and spends six weeks plus unable to lift.
I suppose it depends though on what you mean by Two being able to do 10-20% more weight than One. If you mean that One is just doing too little weight, then obviously Two's going to get more gains because he's pushing closer to his limit, which means he's going to grow more.
There's really not that big a gap, definitely not 10%, between perfect form with a little less weight and form so bad you're going to snap your shit up. Accepting the occasional failed reps means One might have an effective 3x8 program while Two has a messed up 3x6 program.
Plus: 20% intensity cycle when stalling? That's a bit more extreme than beginners should use generally.
>>35144293
I agree with everything you should said.
>>35144201
Definitely 2, but I'm biased because I think you're all a bunch of whinging pussy faggots worried that squatting with your ass not perfectly positioned to take your man's cock with send you directly to wheelchair heaven via snap city and you will demolish your body lifting the bitch ass weights you lift if you aren't perfect about it.
>>35144377
>I'm biased
Everybody who says brother #2 is biased because it's objectively incorrect.
Other than that I agree that most people onhere are probably pussy faggots who will never learn how to push themselves.
Actually sometimes it feels like there are two kinds of people in the gym; those that need to be told to go harder, and those who need to be told to go easier. It seems like few people manage to find the sweet spot. One half is scared shitless of overtraining, the other half stubbornly denies it's even a thing.
>>35144435
There's a lot more of the former than the latter, in my experience.
Which might be a good thing. As I had to say to one training partner - motherfucker, you didn't get it the last eight tries today. The ninth ain't gonna go any better. If the average lifter was that bullheaded nobody would last a year.
>>35144252
>don't ignore me you rancid swine
o fug
>>35144201
Brother one will be bigger with puffier fuller looking muscles. brother two will be slightly smaller with more dense muscle and he will be stronger than brother one
>>35144201
Brother 2. He will also have more applicable athletic strength.
Brother 1 will have technique conforming to /fit/ standards, no gf, autism and joint problems, OTOH.
>>35144252
Look at this person's expression, their face. This is not someone you want to be and feel like.
>>35144252
>I just want to understand how really important is the shit like form, tempo and such.
Not at all. It's basically just memes.
For example, the obsession with full ROM on pull ups started in the 60s with that Kennedy presidential fitness program or whatever it was called. Before that, nobody cared about perfect form.
Protip: The difference between 90% and 100% may be huge mathematically, but it's barely conceivable IRL. If one brother has 90% gains and the other 100%, the difference will hardly be detectable.
Diminishing returns, faggot. At some point, more lifting autism is counter-productive.
>>35144282
>>35144293
>>35144301
>Cheating = injury
dat fucking meme
If anything, cheating reduces injury because you use only the ROM where you are strongest. "Form" is just something that makes a lift harder by using a ROM outside the comfort zone (eg. Bench pressing down to the chest, pull ups form dead hang, ATG squats). The kicker here is that this comfort zone exists for a reason, it's the ROM where you don't hurt yourself. You're weaker with "correct form" because your joints are destabilized so you cannot use skeletal structure to lift. That's why benchers get shoulder problems, for example: If you go past a 90 degree angle between upper arm and forearm, your shoulders get fucked. Same thing for push ups, which is why "correct form" on push ups is NOT nose/chest to the floor, but "Until there's a 90 degree angle between upper arm and forearm".
