>almost 2016
>not using keto for cutting/general health
Fuck your sugary drinks and cakes.
>Anything but protein and fat is sugar
This is what pre-diabetics actually believe.
>>35141883
Except for fiber that's correct you fuck tard.
Carbs are just chains of sugar, all of them, even in veggies.
>>35141880
I feel like that would be the ideal diet for me: for some reason my body always feels best after eating foods like that..even compared to other healthy foods.
>>35141880
Keto is stupid, it should only be used for cutting as a last resort at that.
Also, the majority of your fats should come from unsaturated sources and you should eat a metric fuck ton of low cal greens.
>>35141880
My fucking nigger
>>35141909
Give it a try. If you don't like it just stop. Just remember to carb load at the end of each cycle.
>>35141880
Can someone please give me a brief definition of the keto diet?
>what are vitamins and antioxydants only found in fruits and vegetables`
>what is cholesterol
fucking pleb diet m8
>oh noes I can't eat fruits and vegetables, they'll make me fat!
>>35142297
I'm a broke college student with a cafeteria meal plan: I don't know if I can pull it off.
I try to eat well for what they have though, and it usually works. Last time I ate lentils here it fucked me up for like two days..I don't eat them shits anymore.
>>35141880
>keto
>
>>35141890
Good thing the cells in your body don't need glucose or anything you fucking idiot nigger
>>35142320
try again
>>35142373
68g of liver covers 2% of faily recommended vitamin C. You try again faggot
>>35142373
>I can live off this retarded diet for starving eskimos, this chart even says so
Meme diet for megamemers. Eat some bread, pasta, rice, and potatoes if you want a working dick and any appreciable muscle mass.
>>35142390
you don't need vitamin c on keto faggot nigger
>>35142343
lmao even in glycolysis you don't technically need glucose, you fucking retard
>>35142400
...enjoy your fucking scurvy m9
>>35142320
>what is the difference between dietary and blood cholesterol
>>35142411
For a pretty good chunk of the population, minimal
Not paleo at all but wouldnt the healthiest diet be what humans our ancestors ate?
Lots of animal protein and fats along with a large amount of fruits, nuts, and tubers with a moderate amount of grains and legumes?
>>35142405
Your brain needs glucose to function, there's a reason 'keto fog' is a thing. Besides, none of you fucking ketards even take it seriously, you always talk about how it's important to have a refeed once or twice a week.
>>35142320
you seem to have very little understanding of nutrition and metabolism, bruh
>>35142407
Namely carbohydrates and vitamin C compete on the same metabolic pathways in the body. That means if we take a lot of foods containing sugar and starch must be taken more foods containing vitamin C to vitamin C "wins" sugar. Hence the need for vitamin C is high only when we eat a "standard" diet with lots of carbohydrates and grains. Reducing intake of sugar and starch, it reduces our need for vitamin C. The animals, unlike humans, capable of providing vitamin C, and their meat contains small amounts of this vitamin. We drop the carbs from your diet, getting enough vitamin C in cooked meat and lightly grease.
Anthropologist Vilhjalmur Stefansson studied in the early 20th century, Eskimos in Alaska and has documented the fact that their diet consisted of 90% of meat and fish. During his stay with the Eskimos, and I accepted their diet, and with its entire crew ate only meat and fish for a period of 6-9 months each year. This was pure "zero carb" ketogenic diet (with no carbs) and thus Stefansson fed all nine years while he lived with the Eskimos. When he returned to city life and his experience, the doctors were all astounded by the fact that his health was not at all disturbed.
http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
>>35141890
>There is no such thing as micronutrients.
You are a moron.
>>35142435
Wrong.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6061736
>>35142439
And you have a level of understanding that is literally right at or just barely past the 101 level.
>>35142435
>Your brain needs glucose to function,
not true
keto fog happens when transition from burning sugar to burning ketones.
you can get into ketosis in 12-14 hours, to be fully adapted can take over a month if you're a fat fuck who lives off the SAD diet
Lol, people actually do keto?
>>35142464
>Lol, people actually do keto?
>>35142455
A study from 1930 with 0 information about heart health? Awesome, thanks!
>>35142455
Not a refutation of what I said at all.
Really I just want you guys to admit that keto is an absolute memediet and not at all necessary for weight loss. Please find me three professional athletes who recommend keto.
It's the CURRENT YEAR and people still do things differently?!
>>35142476
>not at all necessary for weight loss.
this is true, however a high fat diet without blood sugar spikes and crashes makes it easier to stay satiated!
>>35142457
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Uses_in_the_heart.2C_brain_and_muscle_.28but_not_the_liver.29
>the brain likely has an obligatory requirement for some glucose
>>35142496
G L U C O N E O G E N I S I S
L
U
C
O
N
E
O
G
E
N
I
S
I
S
>>35142517
Highly inefficient. And you - or some other retard - were claiming that you don't need glucose to survive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis#Controversy
The strongest argument to be made for keto is basically "you won't immediately become malnourished."
>The diet of the Inuit is perhaps oversimplified in order to simulate evidence supporting the viability of long term carbohydrate deprivation. In addition to the seaweed and glycogen carbohydrates mentioned above, the Inuit are able to access many plant sources as well. The stomach contents of caribou contain a large quantity of partially digested lichens and plants which were considered a delicacy. Reindeer moss and other lichens were also harvested directly. The extended daylight of the arctic summer led to a profusion of plant life, and plant parts including berries, roots and stems, as well as mushrooms were harvested. These could be preserved for use in winter, often by dipping in seal fat.
ay lmoa
>>35142518
BTFO
>>35142420
100mg of cholesterol causes an increase of 2mg /dl of LDL, it's not that big of a deal. Unless you eat 5 eggs a day. Especially when you factor in soluble fiber and polys.
I do agree, OP and Keto are retarded.
>>35142752
>egg whites
>0 cholesterol
sup?
>>35141880
>keto
>general health
eating nothing but grease sure is healthy
You can be Keto on days your don't lift, and keto all day before you lift. I only eat carbs after my workout, maybe 4 hours or so before bed. I'm keto every moment inbetween.
>>35142446
>http://www.jbc.org/content/87/3/651.full.pdf
>These studies were supported in part by a research grant from the Institute of American Meat Packers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6riZUY-r30
>>35143589
Carbs are far unhealthier than any other food source.
Sugar will be the main link to every cancer in 50 years.
>>35143645
"Carbs" describes thousands of foods. Why do you think a bowl of lentils or some oatmeal with berries is unhealthy?
>>35143645
>Carbs are far unhealthier than any other food source.
Strength training burns primarily carbohydrate as a fuel source. Having an adequate carbohydrate intake ensures that your muscles are capable of maximum power production and sustaining that production through the entirety of your workout. Fatigue due to lack of fuel (hitting the wall so to speak) is not positive fatigue for muscle gain.
bro, I'm speaking from personal experience but if I ate like that all the time my asshole would be devastated.
I need my oats and yogurt and fermented stuff to make me poop like a god
>>35143651
Yes it does, and they all spike insulin the same way.
>>35143673
see
>>35143640
It's called carb cycling. All you fags eating 200g+ carbs a day are perma tapped on glucose which is dumb. I just eat enough to not hit the wall.
>>35141880
I'm paranoid that I might have diabetes (via looking up symptoms on Web MD and of course having all of them) and don't want to risk ketoacidosis. Of course, according to Web MD I probably have ovarian cancer (and I'm a male) so in conclusion, fuck my paranoia.
>>35141890
>implying that the problems with simple carbs aren't largely based on how quickly they're digested
>implying that complex carbs don't slow down digestion, avoiding the blood sugar spikes and leading to feeling full
>current year
>I mean come on
>>35143722
>they all spike insulin the same way.
Absolutely bullshit. By the way, protein also "spikes insulin," in some cases even moreso than carbs. Is all protein bad too?
>>35141880
>implying If I don't do keto I drink sugary shit or eat cake
>>35143645
>apples are unhealthy
>brocolis are unhealthy
>oats are unhealthy
nigga please... nobody ever got obese or developped cancer from ''eating too many carrots''
>>35143734
>All you fags eating 200g+ carbs a day are perma tapped on glucose which is dumb
Source?
>>35143779
A guy in the 70's famously killed himself by drinking too much carrot juice
>>35143779
might get orange skin tho
i learned that from magic school bus
>>35143645
Technically sugar is already linked to every cancer, cancerous tissue can't grow much if it's deprived of insulin and IGF
>>35143645
>the food type humans are most developed to eat out of any is the worst one
>>35143792
''famously''... that's why nobody but you ever heard of it. Was it even homemade carrot juice or some processed crap bought in a store ?
>>35143804
I think I know what the guy is talking about. Drank a gallon of carrot juice a day for 10 days, then died of liver failure
>>35143804
Are you American? The story is pretty well known in the UK, he was some health nut who became convinced that carrot juice was the elixir of life so he drank ~a gallon of homemade carrot juice per day for a week and then dropped dead from liver failure caused by hypervitaminosis A
http://www.omgfacts.com/health/4882/In-1974-a-British-health-nut-drank-himself-to-death-with-carrot-juice
>>35143802
>humans are most developed to eat carbs
Not even pro-keto but that statement is mindblowingly wrong
>>35143815
>Basil Brown
More like Basil Orange, amirite you guy?
>>35143815
Canadian.
wow that guy sucks
>>35141920
Unsaturated fats are toxic. You shouldn't consume them.
ITT: Everything will kill you. Might a well just eat cake and hot dogs all day, since vegetables are now evil.
>>35141883
And alcohols.
>>35143722
I'll take what the fuck is a glycemic index for 500 Alex
>>35143913
The mild toxicity of vegetables(especially sulforaphane vegetables like broccoli) is actually thought to explain their positive health effects, their toxicity acts as a healthy stressor much like fasting or exercise
>>35142518
Irrelevant because their life expectancy wasn't low due to their diet. It was their surroundings + lack of first world privileges like having a doctor to go to when you are in trouble.
>>35142343
it doesn't in ketosis. you are dumb, friend.
![image38[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/RdswFAr.jpg "image38[1].jpg")
https://web.archive.org/web/20150422214149/http://zerocarbzen.com/2015/03/09/zero-carb-interview-the-andersen-family/?
>Keto is bad for you
Check out the Anderrsen , the whole family lives on nothing but ribeyes (kids included) and they all look exceptionally FANTASTIC for their ages (like 20-30 years younger) and they are all healthy.
Meat is the superior food.
>>35143962
Then there's no point in bringing them up in keto threads as examples of people who live well on such a diet, is there?
>>35143998
Someone more witty than me needs to respond to that picture
>>35143998
>woman looks like a guy
>guys all have the same retarded haircuit that makes them look like they've been electrocuted
>evil twins
>weird socks
>>35144017
someone with mspaint skills needs to photoshop it too
>>35144001
The inuit are often cited because their death rates from diseases of civilization were almost non existent despite the high fat, high cholesterol, high saturated fat diet they eat. Similar thing with the Masai
..before the white man fucked it up anyway
>>35143998
Every diet ever invented has these anecdotal people who claim to be doing fine on whatever the diet is. Even going by the interview, I don't see anything that paints these people as particularly healthy. This question/answer actually sounded really fucked up to me
>21. Do you exercise regularly? If so, how often and how vigorously?
> I used to be an exercise fanatic but no longer! I feel much better the less I do. Presently I do about 5 to 10 minutes a week.
Translated from infomercial speak into realtalk, that sounds like "my carb deficiency makes it too difficult to exercise and I get exhausted quickly, so I avoid physical activity"
Has anyone ever seen someone advocating keto show off their blood work?
>>35144056
There is no such thing as a "carb deficiency". The body makes all the carbs it needs. Dietary carbs make you fat and sick.
>>35144038
>their death rates from diseases of civilization were almost non existent despite the high fat, high cholesterol, high saturated fat diet they eat. Similar thing with the Masai
This idea is mostly put forth by people selling fad diets. It's not grounded in reality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6j75BDq6DQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKrl4X5eplg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoAflQdc3CE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnXF4qgrg5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWW92sgse6s
>>35144056
http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(02)40206-5/abstract?cc=y=
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9417152
![image41[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TjEggWR.jpg "image41[1].jpg")
>>35144024
>Woman is 42
>Man is 57 (almost fucking 60 Jesus)
>Kids are 8 and 10
>Woman doesn't even exercise
>They look better than pretty much any vegan ever
>Been eating a 0 carb diet since 1998, kids been eating this way since they could eat solid food
Defend this vegan scum.
>>35144056
>Translated from infomercial speak into realtalk, that sounds like "my carb deficiency makes it too difficult to exercise and I get exhausted quickly, so I avoid physical activity"
Ayy lmao. The fact that he can look like that without exercise at his age just speaks to the effectiveness of the diet.
Also he mentioned he once got his bloodwork tested, got excellent results, then never tested it again because he felt like he didn't have to.
>>35144062
Blood work is one of the things keto does best as shown by pretty much every clinical trial and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence if you are looking for it. Just search for bloodwork on r/keto or something.
>Season of man's kindness and generosity
>year of our Lord 2015
>Not Winter bulking on stollen, marzipan, homemade rye bread and cookies
It's like you're some kind of love-hating Christmas terrorist
>>35144109
I don't want diabetes so no thank you.
>>35144109
>Winter bulking on stollen, marzipan, homemade rye bread and cookies
Muh Nigga
>>35144090
>Six adolescents, aged 12 to 15 years, weighing an average of 147.8 kg (range, 120.6-198.6 kg) and having an average body mass index of 50.9 kg/m (39.8-63.0 kg/m), consumed the K diet for 8 weeks. Daily intake consisted of 650 to 725 calories, which was substantively in the form of protein (80-100 g). The diet was very low in carbohydrates (25 g) and fat (25 g). This was followed by 12 weeks of the K diet plus two carbohydrates (30 g) per meal (K+2 diet).
Well fuck, with a BMI of 51, I'd be amazed if restricting the calories of those 6 morbidly obese kids to 650-725 calories a day wouldn't cause weight loss. It's also weird to see the phrase "low-fat ketogenic diet." 25g of fat a day doesn't sound very ketogenic.
>>35141890
Fiber is technically sugar too, at least by that definition.
>>35144070
Ketosis could be described as carb deficiency, since lack of carbs causes the inefficient fat breakdown that leads to your body being overwhelmed by ketone bodies
http://books.google.com/books?id=hrdRROeCI9IC&pg=PA264
>Dietary carbs make you fat and sick.
Like I said earlier, that's broad as all fuck. Some are bad for you, many are good for you. You'd have to know nothing about food or health to think every carbohydrate containing food as a group is unhealthy.
>>35144148
Carbs cause diseases of affluence. Without exogenous carbs and alcohol your body gets to finally synthesize its preferred energy source from fats (ketones)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4
>>35144100
The reliance on anecdotes and obvious marketing ploys doesn't make a good argument for your diet, my friend. You'll find similar anecdotes for every diet ever advertised. Fruitarians all say the same thing and they eat practically the opposite kind of diet.
>he once got his bloodwork tested, got excellent results, then never tested it again because he felt like he didn't have to.
This concerns me because what keto buddies have convinced themselves is "excellent bloodwork" is not necessarily what the rest of the world would consider excellent bloodwork, and getting a single blood test and trusting that everything will be fine in the future doesn't make sense considering that blood tests are mainly done to show you markers of health that you're meant to keep track of in order to judge your risk of developing health problems over time.
>Blood work is one of the things keto does best as shown by pretty much every clinical trial and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence if you are looking for it.
You may have been duped by a number of low carb weight loss trials, where low carb diets are shown to cause more weight loss than some other bad diet, and whichever diet shows more weight loss within the study period will generally show more improvement in bloodwork because of the weight loss. To be better than something worse does not make the diet good though. Here's a good video breaking down those studies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1-HQel1AGM
>>35144191
>Gary Taubes
You know those guys you used to see on late night commercials in the 90s that sold "power crystals" over the phone that they claimed would make you stronger if you carry them around in your pocket? Gary Taubes is that guy, but with nutrition.
>Without exogenous carbs and alcohol your body gets to finally synthesize its preferred energy source from fats (ketones)
I'd have to wonder why this preferred fuel source gets cut off as soon as you eat a banana or an ear of corn. It's almost like your body prefers to utilize glucose for energy when it's available. Weird too that your body evolved its own storage system specifically for glucose. Exercise even allows your body to adapt to store more glycogen over time. Why's it trying so hard to store glucose if ketones are the preferred fuel? Stranger still, when you're in ketosis, your body is constantly trying to get rid of the ketones through your urine and even exhaling them out of your lungs. Why's it do that? It's like your brain's been enlightened by Gary Taubes but your body hasn't heard how it's really supposed to work yet
>>35144197
>plantpositive
lmao
>>35144258
He he he he XD
>>35144251
>You know those guys you used to see on late night commercials in the 90s that sold "power crystals" over the phone that they claimed would make you stronger if you carry them around in your pocket? Gary Taubes is that guy, but with nutrition.
argumentum ad hominem
>I'd have to wonder why this preferred fuel source gets cut off as soon as you eat a banana or an ear of corn.
Alcohol is preferentially metabolized as well. Carbs and alcohol are toxic.
>Weird too that your body evolved its own storage system specifically for glucose. Exercise even allows your body to adapt to store more glycogen over time. Why's it trying so hard to store glucose if ketones are the preferred fuel?
Irrelevant. Those are vestigial biochemical pathways.
>your body is constantly trying to get rid of the ketones through your urine
It's not an active process. After keto-adaptation the body better uses ketones and wastes less in urine.
>even exhaling them out of your lungs.
Acetone is harmless byproduct, like CO2.
>>35143820
a late but well deserved kek
>>35144323
>argumentum ad hominem
That's some nice Latin, but when we're talking about Gary Taubes, he has no real arguments in the first place. His whole schtick is that he lays out more theories than facts and hopes that his ideas just sound good enough to people to be accepted at face value. If you openly debate him about it, he can't get past his basic argument of "this is what I think, the actual science doesn't matter"
He lost a debate against Alan Aragon recently because he can't argue scientifically. Everything he says is a gimmick being sold through his diet books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSEVkiTCCNw&feature=youtu.be
>It wasn't even an actual debate. It was Gary hypothesizing without supporting research, then me presenting a metric shit-ton of research supporting my position, followed by Gary flippantly dismissing and denying said shit-ton of research. Gary should have approached the debate very differently. The overwhelming consensus was that he got his ass handed to him. I personally was VERY disappointed in Gary's lack of decorum. He consistently ran way over his time slots, and interrupted me several times during my opening statement, which was very time-sensitive. It was very insulting to the audience, moderator, and of course me. To top things off, he admitted to me that even if NuSI research refuted his position, he likely wouldn't change his current opinions. So, in essence, he's not swayed by evidence. Bottom line is that he made a bad impression on everyone.
>>35144121
>imblying
>>35144130
When I see skelebones whine about not being able to get 2000 Cal a day, here's my bulktastic breakfast
1 slice of stollen: 330 cal
1 tbsp extra marzipan: ~100 cal
2 eggs fried in butter: 400 cal
1 multigrain bagel: 300 cal
1/2 cup hollandaise: 600 cal
Ezpz 1700~ cal in a highly dense and fucking rad package
Calcs might be off I'm a bit drunj
>2005
Wow it's like 2005 again!
Keto died in 2005 because it didn't work. Yes, you lose water in the beginning. Then you get fat again.
Reddit revived keto during 2015. Now it's a meme again. Fuck that shit.
>bacon is a meme food
>>35144500
order a pizza
>eat all the slices
> drink whey protein
>eat some salad
congrats you've hit over 2000 calories for the day.
>>35141880
>keto
>general health
How do ketards believe this bullshit? Are their brains not getting enough glucose?
>>35143645
Meat is already linked to every cancer RIGHT NOW
>>35144546
>Meat is already linked to cancer
You mean beef.
mackerel will not give me cancer, but is also meat.
>>35144500
>2 eggs in butter
>400 calories
Nigger an average egg is around 70 calories, so you're telling me you fry that shit in 260 calories of fat?
>1/2 cup hollandaise
>all this fat
>>35142446
>Eskimos in Alaska and has documented the fact that their diet consisted of 90% of meat and fish.
Except it doesn't. eskimos are pretty much nevr in ketosis.
Also, they die at like 50 and are all fat manlets, why would you use tham as an example for health?
>>35142430
Why would that be the healthiest?
They just ate what they could get their hands on, doesn't say fuck all about nutrition really.
>>35144408
Lol, sweet burn by Alan Aragon.
>>35144131
That's just a PSMF, not even keto. Good job, ketards.
>>35144323
>Carbs are toxic
>except when I have to do my weekly refeed, then they're good
>>35144323
>argumentum ad hominem
He's still right, /pol/.
>>35141880
Enjoy your cancer anon
Your brain will make it's own glucose as long as you're eating protein. Holy shit, the ignorance in this thread.
Is alcohol ok if you're tryna do keto? Like does it prevent ketosis?
>>35146913
No. Yes.
all diets needs to be low calories, so the only difference of ketosis and a usual diet is.
Ketosis you dont fell hungry but is hard to eat only meat. Usual diet you fell hungry but is easier to eat
>>35143651
All that oatmeal shit and other spaghetti shit growing in the meadows are all human invented, not by god or evolution
>>35146936
Jesus please buy hooked on phonics before you post again.
>>35145493
Yes, because the carbs go straight to the muscles, not to fat.
>>35144746
50 isn't bad considering their environment/technology.
>>35146936
Not true.
source: me
>>35146913
Alcohol is shit for your liver. Steatohepatitis and shit. Just like fructose.
>>35141880
>tfw trying to save money
>do keto
>protein is so much more expensive than carbs
>>35146978
That's not a proper argument against any food and humans didn't invent grains in a laboratory in the 1970s, they existed in wild form and were cultivated.
But okay, fruits. Carby as can be, long been associated with good health and longevity, been in the human diet for millions of years. What's the research that says strawberries and kiwis are bad for us?
Former lard-ass here.
A year ago (in 15 days) I started working out. I was 290. Now sitting around 180.
My question is what is a good goal weight to cut down to? I have no idea what a normal weight is, and my parents have always said 180 is a good weight for an adult male.
I just still feel fat as fuck sitting here at 180.
>>35147415
How tall are you? 180 at 5'3 is a lot different from 180 at 6'3
>>35147415
Depends on how tall you are.
>>35144546
>Meat is already linked to every cancer RIGHT NOW
No it's not. There's very weak evidence that it might cause bowel cancer.
>>35144734
>implying fat is bad
>>35147382
>thinking you're supposed to eat any more protein than in a carb diet
>>35147425
>>35147434
I'm 5'11"
>tfw just eat whatever I want as long as I reach my macros
>>35142518
Way too many confounding variables to possibly assert that diet was a primary factor.
>>35142518
>No doctors
>extremely hostile environment
>"hur it's the diet!"
This is why no one takes vegans seriously.
>>35147599
>>35147643
>when keto shills want to shill their diet
look at these amazing cultures that thrived on low carb diets. proof that keto diets are the best thing ever! eat keto and you'll be healthy too because the diet is amazing!
>when keto shills get taught about the shit health of low carb societies
you can't say the diet had anything to do with it! other factors! correlation isn't causation!
kekmate
>>35147565
>tfw I eat whatever I want and don't count anything
Husbando mode here, lift heavy 4x a week, drink beer, and eat well.
>>35142518
>1822 to 1836
What was the average life expectancy for the rest of the world in the early 1800s?
I agree keto is pointless, but citing data from that long ago. Come on now.
>>35144081
>Oh look, plant positive videos kek
>I guess I'll watch at least first one
>Found two mummies with aestheclerosis, proof that all of the Eskimo were unhealthy!
>Looking at modern day Eskimos proves they they are unhealthy! (after all of the crap introduced into their diet)
>Eskimos didn't have low cholesterol (outdated paradigm) which proves that they are unhealthy!
Should have expected as much from vegan shill videos
>>35147772
Two mummies from long before they had any contact with "the white man" had atherosclerosis, meaning it developed on their traditional diet. It's evidence that their traditional diet can lead to poor heart health.
>having normal blood cholesterol levels is an outdated paradigm
Keto is a cult.
>>35147663
I'm not even keto, I'm eating cake right now. I just hate vegan meme dieters, your terrible grasp of science is far, far worse than keto meme dieters.
"Correlation" isn't even actual correlation if you don't at least attempt to control for other major factors.
>tfw you're pissing purple
>>35142452
>your cells can extract energy from micronutrients
You're retarded.
>>35147824
>meaning it developed on their traditional diet
How do you know it developed FROM their traditional diet? Every source I've looked at says the exact cause is unknown. And let's say it did come from their diet. How would we corroborate this? Where are all of the 440 year old vegan mummies to compare it with? Why are there only two mummies to examine instead of like 100? How can we control for their environments? There isn't nearly enough evidence to support such a claim.
>Believing in the blood cholesterol meme in 2015
Total cholesterol and LDL are extremely poor indicators of risk vs Triglycerides and HDL
The charlatan who made the video didn't even provide references. What a fucking joke
>>35148091
>How do you know it developed FROM their traditional diet?
Because atherosclerosis is a primarily diet-related disease, and evidence shows that saturated fats raise the amount of cholesterol in your blood, which can lead to atherosclerosis. Even if you want to deny that, it was claimed that they didn't suffer from diseases of affluence and that carbs in general are the cause of everything bad, so what caused the diseased arteries here?
>And let's say it did come from their diet. How would we corroborate this? Where are all of the 440 year old vegan mummies to compare it with? Why are there only two mummies to examine instead of like 100?
Nobody's talking about vegans here and I don't know where you'd find mummies of them. The reason there's not hundreds of these eskimo mummies to examine is that it was a chance finding. They weren't ritualistically mummified like in Egypt, they were preserved by a collapse of snow that killed them. While I would agree it alone isn't definitive proof that every Eskimo had heart disease or even that it was very common, it is proof that this disease did exist in the Eskimo population, and evidence that such a diet may not promote heart health.
>Total cholesterol and LDL are extremely poor indicators of risk vs Triglycerides and HDL
Okay, I'll make sure to tell all the top cardiologists in the world.
>The charlatan who made the video didn't even provide references. What a fucking joke
They're... videos. How do you NOT see the references?
>>35148192
>top doctors believe this...
It's nice how vegans get to pick what they want to believe from health authorities and discard the rest.
>>35148282
nice cherry picked opinion
>>35148282
>using vegans as a distraction to lead away from the argument
What made you think that cholesterol and even LDL are poor indicators of heart disease risk compared to trigs and HDL? It's a disease of cholesterol. That's cholesterol-rich plaque forming in your arteries.
>>35148382
Different person but I remember reading that your ratio of LDL to HDL and your ratio of triglycerides to total cholesterol is more important than your LDL or cholesterol in isolation.
I also recall a study that suggested that high carb low fat diets are better for reducing cholesterol but low carb diets are better for reducing triglycerides.
I'll link to the sources if I can find them.
>>35148467
Send 'em my way if you can track em down, since as I understand it now, LDL is considered the most important predictor, especially with research showing that HDL may not be as protective as we thought
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/hdl-the-good-but-complex-cholesterol
>Cholesterol guidelines focus on lowering elevated LDL first. Raising HDL comes later. That means a high HDL doesn’t cancel out high LDL when it comes time to determine whether to start lifestyle or drug therapy. Instead, HDL takes a back seat to LDL.
>>35148467
Found some articles. One is from Harvard and another is from a hippy site but cites numerous sources.
About LDL to HDL and triglycerides to HDL ratios:
http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/making-sense-of-cholesterol-tests
http://www.naturalhealthadvisory.com/daily/cholesterol-control/cholesterol-ratio%E2%80%94more-important-than-total-cholesterol-or-ldl-cholesterol/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664115/
>>35148544
>The LDL measurement is usually considered the most important for assessing risk and deciding on treatment. The definition of a healthy level keeps on getting lower. Current guidelines say an LDL of 100 is “optimal.” In a revision of the guidelines in early 2004, doctors were advised that an LDL of less than 70 should be a “therapeutic option” for very-high-risk patients. Some experts say that would be a healthy LDL goal for all of us.
Sounds like Harvard is agreeing that LDL is the most important
>>35148557
But they also say
>Reports from the Framingham Heart Study suggest that for men, a total cholesterol-to-HDL ratio of 5 signifies average risk for heart disease; 3.4, about half the average risk; and 9.6, about double the average risk. Women tend to have higher HDL levels, so for them, a ratio of 4.4 signifies average risk; 3.3 is about half the average; and 7, about double. If you have a high level of total cholesterol, it may be less alarming if your total-to-HDL ratio is low.
It acknowledges that depending on the ratio high total cholesterol isn't always.
Of course, this is probably talking about a few points over, not someone with sky high total cholesterol and LDL.
>>35148630
>It acknowledges that depending on the ratio high total cholesterol isn't always.
Meant to type "isn't always indicative of poor health"
>>35142316
A diet where you keep your carb intake <30g per day in order to put your body into ketosis m8
>>35148544
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664115/
>Study limitations
>We studied a high-risk subset of patients, who showed a higher prevalence of coronary disease than the general population. We compared only lipid variables, and did not take into account the current use of medication or the inflammatory state of the patients. Since the commonly used statin and angiotensin enzyme inhibitors and angiotensin II receptor blockers may alter the inflammatory state, they may weaken the relationship between total cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol and the extent of coronary disease. This is because they act more on LDL-cholesterol and less on HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides.
That sounds like a pretty big oversight. They studied high-risk patients but didn't factor in any medication they may have been using, which could easily mess with their data.
>>35148630
The gist of both articles reads like high LDL is known to be bad, low HDL is known to be bad. To put it in ratio form, you'd expect to see the same thing. A high LDL to HDL ratio would mean LDL is high or HDL is low, both of which may be independently bad. Like they say, lowering LDL is the best option for prevention
Humans of this thread, whether you believe ketosis science works or not, how can you possibly fault a diet which consists of meat and a variety of veg? Surely you can't be saying that gorging on breads and pasta with the nutritional value of fuck all is a better way to go.
>>35141880
>2015
>eating more than once a week
Are you bulking mate?
>>35149151
>how can you possibly fault a diet which consists of meat and a variety of veg?
Because a healthy diet doesn't center around meat, much less the extremely fatty meats advocated on keto. The World Health Organization says this as "a healthy diet is based mainly on foods of plant origin, rather than animal origin." Specifically, it's agreed upon that in addition to vegetetables, fruits, whole grains, and legumes are the foundation of a healthy diet, with nuts mentioned as well
http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/diet/en/
Of those 5 core healthy food groups, Keto allows 1 freely, allows limited amounts of another, and essentially bans the other 3, while filling in the calories with foods that people are advised to avoid or limit.
>Surely you can't be saying that gorging on breads and pasta with the nutritional value of fuck all is a better way to go.
Surely you can't think wonderbread and white pasta represent every food that contains carbohydrate
Keto is the optimum human diet. Even breast fed babies do keto. We used to get our fats from fermentation of cellulose and fibers like gorillas but then our guts shrank and now we just eat it directly. Much more efficient.
>>35149610
There's something about keto that causes people to speak entirely in fallacies
>>35149673
go be a retarded vegan somewhere else
Gaze upon my toast ketofags
>not doing pescetarian keto so you get to snack on nuts and fish all the time
>>35150059
What? I'm doing keto and I eat nuts and fish a lot.
>>35149610
This sounds like bs. You're making us all look bad senpai.
>>35143684
underrated. good poop is how i judge my health.
>>35143998
holy shit, so those kids are actually over 20?
>>35150347
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0028689
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/10/2000.full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1744165X05000181
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643303000485
Humans were never meant to eat grains. We've only been eating grains for maybe the past 10,000 years because some engineer or some fuck came up with some fucked up way to make some cheap quick calories to sell to poor starving roman plebs. We also don't have the ability to properly digest them, which is the reason foods high in carbohydrates cause a substantial amount of gas in humans (in contrast to fats and proteins). Humans were meant to eat lots of meats and veges.
>>35150408
>http://jn.nutrition.org/content/127/10/2000.full
This one is arguing against what you're saying. It's arguing for the consumption of a low-fat diet high in fiber, which can ferment into short-chain fatty acids (butyrate) that feed bacteria in your gut. It's not arguing that we should skip fiber and just eat lots of any random fats directly.
>Low fat diets, high in fiber, vegetable protein and plant sterols are all associated with reduced serum cholesterol levels in humans (Carroll 1983, Howard and Kritchevsky 1997, Jenkins et al. 1993, Kritchevsky 1979, Miettinen et al. 1995). Captive gorillas have high serum cholesterol levels, 281–311 mg/dL, (7.27–8.04 mmol/L) (McGuire et al. 1989) and suffer premature cardiovascular disease when they consume low fiber diets that often contain meat and eggs (Cousins 1979).
>we believe that the diets of the great apes in the wild may provide insights into the nature of the foods that hominoids evolved to eat
>>35150347
well yeah sure but doing pesce you dont even have to worry about red meat
>>35149493
a healthy diet is based mainly on foods of plant origin, rather than animal origin
why do i get the feeling this whole thread is spurred by some fag that just became vegan and is trying to rationalize his retarded decision by arguing the consumption of protein and fats by keto supporters because the staple of his shitty manlet diet is rice and broccoli?
>>35150696
Don't be too mad at them. Vegetarians and vegans have smaller brains after all, they can't help being retarded
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vegetarians-have-smaller-brains.html#.VmNxj7grLIU
>>35150696
>every group of qualified experts in the world agrees on these facts that completely disqualify ketogenic diets from being called healthy
>keto kuck thinks anyone but him is trying to rationalize retarded decisions
>>35143998
That mom is fucking hot.
>>35150711
>expect a study comparing brain size in vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores
>get a roundabout argument about early hominid creatures 2.5 million years ago
I guess I shouldn't have expected anything too interesting from a website that openly denies that tobacco causes lung cancer
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/smoking_lung_cancer.html#.VmNzUxQqdEI
![image34[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/R8gA12S.jpg "image34[1].jpg")
>>35150765
>Your body on a long term all fatty meat diet as a 42 year old woman
Go vegan!
>>35150592
See the other link we're not gorillas
Gorillas, for example, obtain about 60% of their energy from fat [86] produced through the fermentation of plant fiber by bacteria found in their large intestine. It is estimated that each gram of fiber is processed by bacteria to yield 1.5 calories in the form of short-chain saturated fatty acids that are absorbed into the blood stream through the large intestinal wall. It is precisely the large intestine, the fat-producing apparatus in the great apes, which is diminished in humans to offset the increased brain volume, creating a shortage of fat in human diets. Replacement by exogenous fat consumption from animal sources would have been the least metabolically demanding alternative.
Low fat high fiber diets only appear helpful because they displace refined carbs and sugars. You DON'T need plant fiber on keto
https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1lolqu/end_the_fiber_fantasy_everything_you_dont_want_to/
http://caloriesproper.com/animal-fibre/
>>35150861
>/r/keto
There's the problem. Anyway, I don't even know where to start with this tangled argument. I need to figure out what you're actually arguing and why. So far we have
>Gorillas eat high fiber diets
>High fiber diets promote gut health by fermenting into short-chain fatty acids that feed colonic bacteria, while some is also absorbed into the bloodstream
>Therefore fiber doesn't matter, you should just eat fat, the type and amount of which doesn't matter apparently, nor do the other functions of fiber matter, like its role in carrying cholesterol out of the body
Is that basically what the argument is? It's such a roundabout way of arguing and makes so many assumptions with every step. I'm going to read through the first link a bit but I've never seen a good paper published in the journal PLOSone, and the title "Man the Fat Hunter," grammar errors and all, makes it even hard to take seriously
ITT: that same autist that argues in every keto thread and still believes in the outdated scientifically stumped myth that saturated fats are bad
>>35151101
>the outdated scientifically stumped myth that saturated fats are bad
>>35143801
> because you don't produce insulin or IGF1 in a ketogenic state
> because there aren't other pathways to stimulate glucose uptake
>because cancer growth is largely depedent on insulin and IGF-1 and not other factors, not including various downstream effectors that work independent to cause the same growth pathways that insulin and IGF1 do, without those two hormones being present at all.
You're delusional, or uneducated.
The idea is that tumor patients exhibit an increased peripheral demand of fatty acids and protein. Contrarily, tumors utilize glucose as their main source of energy supply. Thus, a diet supplying the cancer patient with sufficient fat and protein for his demands while restricting the carbohydrates (CHO) tumors thrive on, could be a helpful strategy in improving the patients' situation.
But this hasn't been proven. The only things that show insulin and IGF-1, outside of normally functioning people with good insulin and IGF-1 health, as being risk factors for cancer are cell culture studies.
Carbs are not bad. They're bad if you have cancer, yes. But regardless, you still produce glucose in a ketogenic diet, you know? You still produce insulin, you still produce IGF-1.
>>35151215
I'm guessing you're American? Well aren't you a good little boy scout. Keep eating your high carb, low fat diets! It's good for you!
http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4962
How the fuck are there people on /fit/ that actually believe that carbs are the devil. Eat your fruits and vegetables.
>>35151026
>Gorillas eat high fiber diets
Yes
>High fiber diets promote gut health by fermenting into short-chain fatty acids that feed colonic bacteria, while some is also absorbed into the bloodstream
NO, fiber feeds colonic bacteria, colonic bacteria produce fats which then feeds the gorilla
>Therefore fiber doesn't matter
NO, fiber does matter. Humans evolved away from hindgut fermentation, so they just don't need as much. They DO need more exogenous fat for calories
>you should just eat fat, the type and amount of which doesn't matter apparently,
You should eat saturated fat and restrict unsaturated fat. Too much unsaturated fat promotes aging and cancer. Saturated fats protect against both
>nor do the other functions of fiber matter, like its role in carrying cholesterol out of the body
Animal fiber is all you need. Plant fiber is just a vegan pseudoscience meme. It wastes cholesterol and as a result negatively impacts levels of hormones, vitamin D, and coenzyme Q10. It inhibits the absorption of nutrients and promotes constipation, kidney stone formation, bloating, and mucus production from irritating the intestines. Read the r/keto post
>>35151026
>>35150861
I'm still not getting how they reasoned their gorilla argument. How do you make the leap from "fiber is fermented in the colon into a specific fatty acid conducive to health, primarily at the site of the fermentation" to "instead of eating fiber, you can eat lots of any kind of fat for the same effect"? Where's all that middle research? The one reference it gave is arguing for a low fat diet, and says that switching fiber for fatty foods causes heart disease in captive gorillas
>We suggest that humans also evolved consuming similar high foliage, high fiber diets, which were low in fat and dietary cholesterol. The macronutrient and fiber profile of the gorilla diet is one in which the colon is likely to play a major role in overall nutrition. Both the nutrient and fiber components of such a diet and the functional capacity of the hominoid colon may have important dietary implications for contemporary human health.
>Captive gorillas have high serum cholesterol levels, 281–311 mg/dL, (7.27–8.04 mmol/L) (McGuire et al. 1989) and suffer premature cardiovascular disease when they consume low fiber diets that often contain meat and eggs (Cousins 1979).
>>35142752
i EAT 10-12 EGGS A DAY, EVERY DAY AND MUY CHOLESTEROL IS FINE GET FUARKED
>>35151335
>Nina Teicholz, journalist, New York City, USA
A low carb diet book author with no expertise in what she's writing about isn't who I would turn to, but let's see what her points are. According to the response section, people called for the paper to be retracted, so it must be pretty crazy stuff.
It looks like she's just complaining that people have moved on from the saturated fat issue, and she cites a meta-analysis from 2010 that was funded by the National Dairy Council as a reason why the government should divert more time and resources to studying saturated fats. This paper isn't well respected in the medical community and is filled with errors and misinterpretations of the studies the authors selected, mostly pointed out in this response letter
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/3/497.full
She brings up a lot of poor quality studies, mostt of which have already been reviewed and rejected as compelling evidence, including this paper that people like her constantly cite, even though the authors of it don't agree with the conclusion that saturated fat isn't an issue
http://news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/03/scientists-fix-errors-controversial-paper-about-saturated-fats
>>35151360
>NO, fiber feeds colonic bacteria, colonic bacteria produce fats which then feeds the gorilla
They ferment fiber and produce butyrate, which feeds the colon cells, promoting gut health. Producing the butyrate in the colon is important.
>NO, fiber does matter
>animal fiber is all you need
The fuck is animal fiber?
>they just don't need as much. They DO need more exogenous fat for calories
Where did you come up with that? Even your Man the Fat Hunter article says that the most recent human adaptation is to a high-starch diet. And high fiber diets are still, today, associated with good health. It improves gut health, decreases colon cancer risk and cardiovascular disease, lowers blood pressure, protects against hernia and hemorrhoids, and more.
>You should eat saturated fat and restrict unsaturated fat.
Because the C4:0 fat butyrate is saturated? That's a huge stretch to say that any type of saturated fat would function the same.
>Plant fiber is just a vegan pseudoscience meme. It wastes cholesterol and as a result negatively impacts levels of hormones, vitamin D, and coenzyme Q10.
"Wastes cholesterol." Yeah, we wouldn't want our arteries to go unclogged. What a waste that would be.
>>35151584
ironic image choice given your post is filled with opinionated and baseless accusations served with a 5 year old study and a 2014 article that has zero application or relation to the article and study you're attempting to criticize
nicely dressed bait post nonetheless, i'm sure a lot of people will fall for it
>>35144100
8/10 would bang and make her my mature meat wife.
>>35151759
>a 5 year old study and a 2014 article that has zero application or relation to the article and study you're attempting to criticize
You didn't understand what I posted. The "5 year old study" wasn't a study, it's a response to the first piece of evidence Nina Teicholz cites in the article you posted to say that evidence for saturated fat has been unfairly neglected. The letter, written by one of the most famous cardiologists in the world, points out the many flaws of the study and its interpretations. In other words, she cited a bogus study.
The 2014 article is about another bogus study she references, again to say that questions about saturated fat are still active and worth considering. That paper, as the article points out, was filled with errors that needed to be corrected after publication, and had many people asking for it to be retracted (just like Nina's article), while even the authors of the paper agree that it was badly done and misleading, and wouldn't support Nina's use of their paper as a citation in that article.
>>35151584
>>35151872
>i posted a couple review articles containing follow up questions by bloggers to a couple of studies of the many cited in the bmj article which find no significant relation between saturated fat consumption and heart disease all by a new york journalist which I personally deem unworthy in contrast to these well respected bloggers (which in no way makes me a hypocrite btw)
>i fail to understand the point of the article being that the us committee failed to acknowledge and analyze any contradictory evidence to the status quo and i instead cherry pick and attempt to undermine the author to support my own biased views
Nice job champ! Keep eating those healthy vegetable lasagnas!
>>35151675
>They ferment fiber and produce butyrate, which feeds the colon cells, promoting gut health. Producing the butyrate in the colon is important.
They produce all kinds of short chain saturated fatty acids. Without them gorillas would never get enough calories from their shitty indigestible anti-nutrient dense plant diet
>The fuck is animal fiber?
http://caloriesproper.com/animal-fibre/
>Where did you come up with that? Even your Man the Fat Hunter article says that the most recent human adaptation is to a high-starch diet.
High fat keto diets are the best diets for human health. Humans are still too poorly adapted to function best on a high starch diet. Carbohydrate restriction is beneficial for neuroprotection, cognition, aging, obesity, type 2 diabetes, diabetic nephropathy, fatty liver, PCOS, autoimmune diseases, certain types of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, traumatic brain injury, stroke, hypertension, glaucoma, acne, and others. Visit r/ketoscience to know more
>And high fiber diets are still, today, associated with good health. It improves gut health, decreases colon cancer risk and cardiovascular disease, lowers blood pressure, protects against hernia and hemorrhoids
Nope. I see you still haven't read https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1lolqu/end_the_fiber_fantasy_everything_you_dont_want_to/
High fiber is just a stupid meme and leads to improvements only if you were on a diet rich in carbs and cheap oils. There are even better ways to improve gut health, like with probiotics, digestive enzymes, and animal fiber
>>35141880
>cutting in December
>>35151675
>>35152098
>Because the C4:0 fat butyrate is saturated? That's a huge stretch to say that any type of saturated fat would function the same.
All saturated fats are beneficial. Human breast milk has specially evolved to enhance the intestinal uptake and tissue availability of saturated fats
>Yeah, we wouldn't want our arteries to go unclogged. What a waste that would be.
Cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease in a natural ketogenic metabolic state. Wasting cholesterol puts unnecessary metabolic stress on your liver. Fuck off with your vegan pseudoscience
>>35152010
>bloggers
>Jeremiah fucking Stamler
Anyway, if you don't understand the response letter but you're curious why the studies she cites aren't very good, here's a brief, easy to understand walkthrough of the first one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Tx9dCbv-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wi9dzkTiU4
And a detailed walkthrough of the other
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/mar/chowdhuryp1.pdf
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl/apr/chowdhurypart2.pdf
And as for deeming her unworthy, that she's a journalist writing about diet and nutrition is bad enough, that she cites these same heavily flawed papers that ever other saturated fat denier cites is worse, and that she profits by doing so just brings it full circle
>Competing interests: I have read and understood BMJ policy on declaration of interests and declare that I am the author of The Big Fat Surprise (Simon & Schuster, 2014), on the history, science, and politics of dietary fat recommendations. I have received modest honorariums for presenting my research findings presented in the book to a variety of groups related to the medical, restaurant, financial, meat, and dairy industries.
>Not eating cake or sweets is the same thing as cutting carbs
Jesus Christ, are ketards the dumbest people in the nutrition industry?
Which diet is memeier, keto or raw veganism?
>>35152131
>"Plant Positive"
>McDougall
Oy vey. Talk about competing interests.
>>35142430
nature fallacy
wouldn't the healthiest way to live is to live in the jungle and die at the age of 35 from being eaten alive by a hippo?
>Keto/paleo is natural
>Yet no human civilization in recorded history has every followed it
>Even the Inuit who are paraded around as an example aren't in ketosis
Ketosis is literally your body's Plan B. It's meant as a back up to keep your brain alive during a famine or intense exercise. To think that you should live your life on it, or build a sucessfu; civilization on it, is batshit insane.
>>35141883
>grains are god
>>35152098
>They produce all kinds of short chain saturated fatty acids. Without them gorillas would never get enough calories from their shitty indigestible anti-nutrient dense plant diet
That's true, gorillas rely on the short chain fatty acids produced from all the fiber they eat in order to extract more calories from the dense, fiberous vegetation they eat. With that said, you can't conclude from this that they can skip the middle-man and just eat overt fat, not even the same kind the bacteria synthesize, and be just as fine, and that this would also apply to humans. The reference given says replacing fiber with meat and eggs in gorilla diets leads to high cholesterol and cardiovascular disease.
>http://caloriesproper.com/animal-fibre/
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201100542/abstract
>High fat keto diets are the best diets for human health. Humans are still too poorly adapted to function best on a high starch diet.
>Visit r/ketoscience to know more
Honestly, I think you'd know more if you stopped browsing reddit subforums for all your info.
>>35152120
>All saturated fats are beneficial.
All saturated fats are beneficial and all carbohydrates are bad. I get it, you're totally keto. Cite something atleast.
>Cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease in a natural ketogenic metabolic state
What a qualifier you tacked on there. Why is keto so special that the normal rules of biology don't apply to it?
>>35152300
This is incorrect.
Agriculture enables a group of people to lessen their reliance on hunting, and settle down in an area. Once they have a surplus of food, they begin to develop social hierarchies, and shit.
This is why humanity originated in Africa, and then the first civilization was in the Middle East. Africa has virtually no useful crops to domesticate, and the ones you can domesticate have low protein content. The part of the Middle East where Mesopotamia was had like 7 different species of animal to domesticate, and multiple plants worth farming.
tl;dr No civilization has followed keto because keto isn't compatible for the development of a civilization. Not because keto isn't useful at all.
>>35152131
>if i post one vegan article that attempts to discredit another weaker study, it by definition makes all others "not very good" in comparison
Nice logic fag.
>competing interests
>cites mcdougall
Top fucking kek
>>35152238
To be fair, it's not an article by McDougall, it's just posted on the website. I guess you can agree with me then that the article you posted doesn't support your beliefs very well
>>35152405
Having now seen that the foundation of the argument in the paper being cited is low-quality, why would you still defend it?
>McDougall
It's not written by John McDougall, it's written by Fred Pollack. Do you disagree with Fred in his evaluation?
Is this the fedora equivalent of diets?
>>35152466
>Fred Pollack, a microprocessor electronics engineer and vegan.
>Do you disagree with Fred in his evaluation?
Yep.
>>35152599
Okay, what points do you disagree on?
>>35152613
The one where he's a vegan.
>>35144769
because the evolution of our body's organs revolved around that diet dumbass
