Why don't you eat only whole foods? Sure, in terms of weight the only thing that matters is an energy deficit/surplus, however there are a plethora of benefits to eating ingredients rather than packaged rubbish.
><3g added sugars per day
>Oatmeal cooked with whole milk, bowl of full fat yogurt for breakfast
>Vegetables, legumes, whole grains, and meat for lunch/dinner
>Nuts, fruit, unsweetened dark chocolate as snacks
>Unsweetened green tea, rooibos and herbal tea as drinks, along with plenty of water (coffee is fine too)
>Sleep improved tenfold
>Energy improved tenfold
>Acne went away
>Libido improved
>Stopped craving shitty food, started craving steak, potatoes and roasted almonds
>Broke the sugar addiction that 99% of Westerners have
>Feel superior when you see people eating packaged snack foods or drinking sugary drinks
>Cheaper
>>35084637
My cravings for shitty food never goes away :(
>>35084637
I was on board until
>Oatmeal cooked with whole milk, bowl of full fat yogurt
The "eat whole foods" thing does not apply to dairy. Dairy fat is bad.
>>35084637
I'm usually only whole foods, but a few select processed foods are my guilt free treats. I usually go with meat, vegetables, dairy, eggs, and fruit, though I don't know if things like butter and sour cream "count" as whole foods.
>>35084704
>Dairy fat is bad.
How?
>>35084725
>How?
It has a high saturated fat content. This is why everyone recommends sticking to low-fat dairy
>>35084687
Yeah but that's not even true dude. Your food cravings are entirely dependent on the composition of bacteria cultures in your gut.
>>35084748
>2011
>still believing saturated fat is bad
>>35084822
Don't be stupid. Let's have a good thread.
>>35084748
Saturated fats are good. Read your articles noob
>>35084836
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/NutritionCenter/HealthyEating/Saturated-Fats_UCM_301110_Article.jsp#.VlvgNxQqdEI
>There’s a lot of conflicting information about saturated fats. Should I eat them or not? The American Heart Association recommends limiting saturated fats – which are found in butter, cheese, red meat and other animal-based foods. Decades of sound science has proven it can raise your “bad” cholesterol and put you at higher risk for heart disease.
>When you hear about the latest “diet of the day” or a new or odd-sounding theory about food, consider the source.
Let's not turn this thread into conspiracist shit.
>>35084855
Saturated fat is good for you in moderation, especially if part of a good diet based on good food. If the 'worst' of your fats come from eggs, full fat dairy and the occasional steak/proper burger you're golden. These sources contain a shittonne of fat soluble vitamins anyway.
If, like most Americans and the people these correlational studies are composed on, you get your saturated fat from a Big Mac with fries every other day (washed down with a large coke) of course you're going to suffer.
You should be consuming plenty of whole grains, oily fish and nuts/good chocolate anyways.
>>35085056
>Saturated fat is good for you in moderation, especially if part of a good diet based on good food.
Nope.
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10490&page=422
>If, like most Americans and the people these correlational studies are composed on, you get your saturated fat from a Big Mac with fries every other day (washed down with a large coke) of course you're going to suffer.
It's not based on correlation. Based on hundreds of direct feeding experiments, saturated fats raise the amount of cholesterol in your blood.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=9006469
The less you eat, from all sources, the better.
Anyway, what fruit do you guys like? Pomegranates are on sale right now so I've been loading up, tossing salads with them, adding them to oatmeal, eating handfuls plain. So tasty
>>35085112
I can't be bothered to read that entire book, however I glanced through and saw this. If you could point me to the part where it says saturated fat, even in moderation, is bad for you and should always be avoided I'd be grateful.
On your second point, please read http://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/, especially the part on what 'raising cholesterol' actually means in terms of HDL/LDL. I know the source looks shit but it's all cited.
On your final point, I'm a bit of a pleb and only really eat the normal apples/oranges/bananas/pears/grapefruit. I do really really like underrippened persimmons too. I want to try and eat more berries.
>cheaper
my ass. just buy your groceries at the local supermarket ffs
>>35085296
Twix bars cost 60p at my local grocers, and an entire head of broccoli costs 30p. Combine that with chicken/potatoes/beans all bought in bulk and you have a huge, healthy af meal for the price of a popular packaged snack food
>>35085201
>I can't be bothered to read that entire book
It should have opened you to page 422
>If you could point me to the part where it says saturated fat, even in moderation, is bad for you and should always be avoided I'd be grateful.
"Saturated fatty acids are synthesized by the body to provide an adequate level needed for their physiological and structural functions; they have no known role in preventing chronic diseases. Therefore, neither an AI nor RDI is set for saturated fatty acids. There is a positive linear trend between total saturated fatty acids intake and total and low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol and increased risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). A UL is not set for saturated fatty acids because any incremental increase in saturated fatty acid intake increases CHD risk."
>please read http://authoritynutrition.com/saturated-fat-good-or-bad/
This is what the American Heart Association means when they say "consider the source." His objection to the diet heart hypothesis is that scientists have never directly demonstrated saturated fat to cause heart disease in humans. This is a ridiculous thing to demand as evidence, as crazy as saying tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer because it's never been directly tested in humans. The indirect evidence is strong enough that you'd have to be insane to deny it. Saturated fats raise the cholesterol of humans, and raising cholesterol has led to experimentally induced atherosclerosis in every species of animal ever tested, while also being a strong predictor of heart disease in human observational studies.
As for the HDL/LDL thing, saturated fats raise LDL disproportionately more than HDL, and lowering LDL has shown to be the most reliable way to lower heart disease risk, rather than raising HDL.
Berries are pretty good. I buy frozen wild blueberries at whole foods and add 1/2 a cup to my pint-sized morning smoothie. $13 for 3 pounds, lasts about 3 weeks
>>35085352
Maybe you're right.
However I personally believe that if your diet is good, the positives of eating full fat dairy, eggs, and good meat outweigh the negatives. There is a lot of nutrition in these foods and if the majority of your fats come from things like salmon, nuts and avocados you don't need to be concerned with the cholesterol.
For example, I could point you to studies that show fructose is bad and tell you to stop eating fruit. Fruits come with a lot of fibre and micros and eating 1-2 servings a day will do more good than the damage the sugar will cause
>>35084637
Well, who the fuck DOESN'T eat whole foods?
Diet is the key to aesthetics, and a healthy, balanced diet is the way to go
>mfw eat 10 different types of vegetables in a single day
>>35084748
have fun drinking cow water idiot
>>35085427
A lot of lifters take concoctions of chemicals. I guess if you're really desperate you could stretch the definition of 'whole foods' to include whey however the ingredients lists of preworkouts and mass gainers tend to be absolute disasters.
There is also the IIFYM crew that are only concerned about getting a six pack/big biceps to impress girls but not so concerned about their health. Eating whole foods will not do that much to your aesthetics, if you get the same p/f/c amounts from shitty foods you can still look aesthetic while setting yourself up with a lot of problems
>>35085401
>However I personally believe that if your diet is good, the positives of eating full fat dairy, eggs, and good meat outweigh the negatives
I'd have to say that's not based on anything, and that doing so would detract from your diet, possibly so much that you then wouldn't be able to say your diet is good. One of the main aspects of what we would call a "good diet" is being low in saturated fat. If you ignore that, you're kind of making up your own definition.
>I could point you to studies that show fructose is bad and tell you to stop eating fruit.
It's not quite the same. Refined fructose is bad, just like refined starch (white bread) is bad, but fructose and starch we can both agree are not bad when you eat them in their original sources, surrounded by the fiber and antioxidants they're intended to be eaten with. Whether you eat one serving of fruit or 10, there's no harm in eating fructose in that context. It's not a risk vs benefit situation, there's simply no risk.
On the other hand, with something like whole milk, there's nothing in whole milk that makes the saturated fat content not harmful. You drink it, it raises your cholesterol and offers no apparent advantage, so health officials recommend you go skim instead.
>>35085439
>muh taste matters more than anything
>>35085056
Oh God yes. Look at that fucking burger. Man if it just had bacon on it I'd be jerkin it all over my cat.
>>35085553
You make very good points. I'm always really happy to have constructive debates with people on 4chan.
My definition of a good diet is one that is good for your health, where everything you eat has a positive impact on your health. I think that full fat dairy, eggs, dark chocolate etc. are incredibly nutritious and if have an overall positive impact on your health and so are part of a good diet.
Fructose in fruit and refined fructose are exactly the same thing - fructose. Both can only be metabolized by the liver and can't be used for energy/glycogen repletion etc. Both create AGEs, screw up gut flora, ironically raise VHDL cholesterol when metabolised by the liver and so on. However, as you said fruit also comes with fiber, antioxidants, and micronutrients that make it a beneficial addition to your diet
>>35085056
how much chocolate/day? (I'm assuming ~70% cocoa?)
>>35084725
If you are prone to inflamation (or want to avoid them as much as you can) you must greatly limit dairy fat
>>35085678
>I think that full fat dairy, eggs, dark chocolate etc. are incredibly nutritious and if have an overall positive impact on your health and so are part of a good diet.
I disagree with that. I don't think they're particularly nutritious, and that's even more apparent when you look beyond vitamins and minerals (pic related, various health-promoting compounds found in whole grain foods), and they come with clear downsides that can easily cause problems for your health, to the point where recommendations to avoid them are major aspects of worldwide public health policies.
>Fructose in fruit and refined fructose are exactly the same thing - fructose. Both can only be metabolized by the liver and can't be used for energy/glycogen repletion etc. Both create AGEs, screw up gut flora, ironically raise VHDL cholesterol when metabolised by the liver and so on
It's the same molecule but the environment and what it's interacting with is different. The things that happen when you take fructose out of fruit and eat it in isolation are not what happens when you eat fructose packaged with the chemicals and fibers in the fruit it originally came with. There's no concern about eating fructose from whole fruits because, as the World Health Organization says, "there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
Again, this isn't the same as drinking whole milk, where there is adverse effects from consuming it. I don't know why you think it's so nutritious as to make up for that, but take marketing claims with a grain of (pink himalayan) salt.
How do you guys cook and prepare your whole foods? I feel like it's almost impossible now and days. What about when you go out to restaurant with friends and loved ones?
>>35085803
10-20g of the highest % you can tolerate, 70% is the absolute minimum
>>35085832
I think we're going to have to disagree. Eggs are incredibly nutritious, full fat dairy has a lot of fat soluble vitamins and is lower in sugar than skimmed equivalents, red meat is full of micros and a great source of protein. In moderation I think they do more good than bad. Maybe I'm ignorant.
You can consider yourself the winner of this argument though, I have no proper points to make. I'm just going to plug my ears with my fingers and drink delicious whole milk
>>35085850
Steam your veggies, pan fry/roast your meats in a good oil. If you go out, you really can't do more than pick the best option and skip the dessert
This thread is entirely too reasonable and civilized. Fuck this I'm out.
>>35084637
80% of my diet is "clean", the final 20% is junk.
idc, fight me!
>>35085678
>overall positive impact on your health and so are part of a good diet
This could be said about a lot of things that shouldn't be in your diet, namely sweetened teas, yogurts, oatmeal etc
>>35086593
Well if you take the unsweetened versions they'd have a greater positive impact on your health. Maybe you can say the same about skimmed dairy/lean meat but you do lose out on micros and add a bunch of carbs
>>35086591
This is the best way to approach diet. Very little difference between 80% and 100% clean apart from how autisticly smug you get to feel
>>35085890
>>35085803
I eat 100 grams of 86% chocolate.
Love that shit mayn
>>35086651
No one gives a fuck. Don't post this picture again until you've gained atleast 15lbs
>>35086672
ay ay captain.
what about this one?
>>35084637
Why no meat, anon? Meat is the best whole food.
>>35086651
>ingesting 600 calories of chocolate per day
Judging by bother your picture and diet, you ain't going to make it.
>>35086739
*both
>>35086651
Good for you Daniele.
>>35086651
Fuck off you look rubbish. Also groom yourself. People only post shit like this cos they have 0 idea what they want in life. Fuck you
>>35084781
My gut is clean, you don't need a prescription for antibiotics where I live
>>35086736
Meat is in the dinner part
>>35086771
>>35086775
Apologies. I missed it.
>>35084748
The only evidence claiming sat fat is bad is that there is an association between high sat fat levels and cardiovascular issues. But association does not imply causation.
Hell, its been a while, but I'm pretty sure no study has managed to confirm any association whatsoever between dietry satfat intake and cardiovascular issues.
>>35086781
Yeah I don't do it all the time obviously smartass, just so my bf doesn't get sick from rimming me
>>35086808
Please elaborate
>>35086818
I mean even though you rinse, there can be some left so it's a good idea to take laxatives and antibiotics in the morning if you know its going to happen
>>35086843
Yor gut had several 100 gr of bacteria no matter what you do gay boy. That's what relevant to the discussion, not your butt habits.Ever heard of pro-biotics?
>>35086843
How considerate of you. Does you bf rim you often?
>>35086878
Not a boy and I get rid of most of the bacteria with laxatives anyway
>>35086912
And you see this as a good thing?
>>35085850
>What about when you go out to restaurant with friends and loved ones?
Portion control. Eat some and box the rest. Split the dessert if you're weak against cheesecake.
Don't trust the healthy options unless the restaurant really goes out of its way to explain how the choice is healthy. Most food in restaurants is loaded with the same things fast food is, just at a higher quality. The amount of butter that gets put into everything is immense.
>>35084637
>rooibos
Kanker
>>35086912
Get outta here breeder!
>>35086917
E. coli can make you really sick if it gets in your mouth
>>35086921
Why?
>>35086929
Why do you have e. coli in your butt you diseased whore?
>>35086940
fuck you everyone does
>>35086956
Eh no. WFT girlie?
>>35086771
Your gut is filled with a natural bacterial flora m8
>>35084637
this is what i usually eat in a day
breakfast:
1 bowl of wholegrain oats and whole milk
1 coffee no sugar no milk
1 slice toast with unsweetened unsalted peanut butter
2 rusks because rusks are amazing
10am snack
3 provitas with smoked salmon
1 cup low fat chocolate milk
12 o clock lunch
400g ribeye steak
2 medium potatoes
half a cup broccoli
one koeksister
3pm pre workout
sweets of some kind (gummy bears, jelly beans etc)
jack3d pre workout
creatine in powerade
post workout
mass builder protein shake
1 chocolate bar (60g)
packet of instant ramen
120g drained weight canned tuna
dinner
beer, whiskey or wine depending on my mood
boerewors
2 potatoes
some ketchup or mustard
butternut squash
sugar addiction is a made up addiction by fatties that dont want to work out
>tfw 201cm, 103kg without a boep
>>35086987
She's a girl, and a diseased one at that.
>>35086991
How fat are you?
>>35086912
Natural gut flora does so much good, including fighting off infectious bacteria by simply being better at living inside you than the infectious ones are (competing for survival and all that)
And that's not including all the assistance with digestion etc that the natural flora do
>>35087006
not at all, bmi is 25.5
overhead press i do 70kg
bench press i do 94kg
>>35087030
bmi is 25.5
This is overweight...
>>35086991
Looks really good aside from the pre and post workout, chocolate milk, daily alcohol and possibly the bread (check the ingredients)
>>35087030
You are literally .5 from being medically obese. I would reccomend scaling back on food. You will keep the numbers on weights but lose fat.
>>35084637
>rooibos and herbal tea
Rooibos is a herbal tea you mongoloid.
>>35087062
Muscle is denser than fat, surely a lot of body builders appear to be obese with vmi when they're very healthy?
>>35087048
my bmi is 27 and i am 12% bodyfat, its a pretty useless metric.
>>35087111
I am very sure this guy is not lean. Unless he posts pic to prove
>>35087144
>pretty useless metric.
I agree with this, so why did he use it?
>>35085112
>2016
>still believing the myth that saturated fats are bad for you
rip
>>35085112
>2015
>still believing the myth that all saturated fats are bad for you
rip
>>35087497
lol 2016 shit
>>35087497
>>35087507
Fancy trying to actually refute his points?
>>35087541
saturated fat is necessary for test production
>>35089352
Good thing your body makes what it needs
>>35089366
the medical standard for how much testosterone you need is embarrassingly low.
>>35089352
Evidence?
>>35089352
broscience pls go
>>35090200
This site is fucking comedy gold
>>35090167
Not the guy you replied to, and no source on me atm, but I'm a med(student)fag if that gives me any credibility.
Steroid hormones in general are synthesised by the body from cholesterol, which we get from sat fats. That's basically it.
>>35091006
>Steroid hormones in general are synthesised by the body from cholesterol, which we get from sat fats. That's basically it.
As a med student, surely you'd think it's dumb to assume that testosterone scales linearly with cholesterol, and that the more cholesterol you have, the more testosterone you produce. People with genetic abnormalities can have 5x the cholesterol of a normal person but they don't have crazy testosterone levels.
>>35091113
I don't think that at all. I never said nor implied that. Nevertheless,what I have said, without extrapolating extra info ,is true
>>35091187
I don't know what you're saying then. Cholesterol is synthesized from acetylCoA. You could have 0 saturated fat in your diet and still synthesize cholesterol, and thus synthesize steroid hormones
>>35091237
I'm just explaining where people get the bioscience of "more sat fat = more test" from.
>>35086991
>beer, whiskey or wine depending on my mood
i kek'd so hard
>>35091352
*broscience
>>35091446
Ah yeah, that's what I meant haha. Bloody autocorrect
right fuckbois
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/08/10/making-sense-of-your-cholesterol-numbers.aspx
read that shit.
>>35092021
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
>>35092021
>non-ironically linking to Mercola
Are you fucking serious m8
