Im not lifting for strength, I'm lifting 100% for aesthetics, I just want to look good. Are deadlifts necessary for this goal? I currently have bench press, squats, and OHP in my routine, I'm thinking of adding deadlifts, will they do any difference?
so true lmao
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do SS+GOMAD
also read the sticky
Do your routine for a while and see if you like the way you look. If not, research what muscles deadlifts work and it thats what you need to work on then do them. /fit/ is mostly teenagers who have been lifting for under a year, you cant trust much here as facts.
>>35054989
There is no general standard for what is "aesthetic".
Lots of people who deadlift would be aesthetic in your opinion and lots of people who don't would be too.
In the end it comes down to whether or not you want to deadlift.
>>35054989
Don't start off with a hypertrophy routine, you need base strength first so start with the routine "Starting Strength" then you can move onto a bodybuilding routine.
>>35054989
If you are lifting for aesthetics, you should definitely add pull ups/chin ups. Otherwise you'll very quickly notice that there's something missing on your torso, the lats. You definitely need to train those to have a decent looking body. They will also train your biceps somewhat. Whether you really need deadlifts is up to your standards. Personally, I don't recommend them, they are pretty fucking difficult and you can fuck up your back and whatnot. Do some more basic core workout (crunches, planks etc) and squat if you want some leg workout.
>>35054989
Well they say that part of looking good is feeling good. Deadlifts make me feel great about myself. So from that perspective I would say, yes to deadlifts.
>>35055074
Being aesthetic is not about "feeling good" fatboy. Its about being Spartan and doing what 99.999% of the populace lacks the willpower to do. Its about being made of iron and forged in hellfire.
>>35055038
But Im including bench press, squats, OHP, and maybe deadlifts in my hypertrophy routine, wouldn't that give me the basics as well?
>>35055067
I do both of those. Yeah I was afraid I would fuck up my back doing deadlifts with poor form. Im not sure whether to include them or not because i dont know the benefit from doing them properly is greater than the disadvantages of doing them poorly
>>35054989
No exercise is "necessary". Some exercises are good, some are really good. Some are bad and some are really bad.
Aesthetics is subjective, but is generally a combination of the right amount of muscle mass, the right bodyfat percentage and the right proportions.
Which proportions you think look good is up to you. From doing deadlifts you can expect increased muscle mass in particularly your posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, erector spinae), and also your trapezius and your forearms. Most of these muscles are muscles that regular people don't really notice. Not in the same way that a big chest, delts or arms stand out. However, if you place two guys alongside eachother for comparison, I promise you the guy who has a balanced physique and who has paid attention to every muscle - not just what he sees in the mirror - will look a hundred times better.
On a personal note, I think deadlifts are great because A) they are easy to progress, and B) they're fun. Training must be fun or you'll end up quitting sooner rather than later. Of course if YOU hate deadlifts, don't do them.
>>35054989
protip: being aesthetic is 90% genetics.
>>35055121
You need to do SS until you have a double body weight squat, a 2.5 bodyweight deadlift, and a 1.75 body weight bench press. Hypertrophy routines are fucking pointless without a strength base.
>2015
>Not calling upon your body to unleash lethal amounts of force as one kinetic chain.
It's like you don't even want to make it.
>>35055157
>Hypertrophy routines are fucking pointless without a strength base.
lmao
ur faggy strength base wont do shit since most hypertrophy programs utilize rep ranges where you reach full recruitment only for the last few reps anyway. strength base is a meme.
>>35055121
>i dont know the benefit from doing them properly is greater than the disadvantages of doing them poorly
There is no denying that heavy deadlifts are a high-risk exercise. As is any exercise that lets you handle immense poundages.
You're right that done poorly you can snap your shit up horribly. However, done correctly nothing will strengthen your back as well as deadlifts will. That means your back will be less likely to get messed up when you're doing other stuff that lifting, too.
The moral of the story is of course to learn proper form from a legit source.
>>35055038
>>35055157
This is the biggest fucking die-hard fallacy on /fit/. Listen, I'm all for strength training - in fact that's what I prefer - but there is NO reason you have to "build a strength base" before trying to train for hypertrophy. That is bullshit. Yes, it's easier to get bigger if you're stronger, but guess what, it's equally easier to get stronger if you're bigger. Strength and hypertrophy feed off eachother - it goes both ways and that's a goddamn fact.
>>35055157
That's fucking stupid. SS is meant to be done for maybe 6 months tops. If you want to get to a 2x bw squat and 2.5x bw dead, you need a proper powerlifting / strength routine.
>>35055117
>I do what 99.99% of the population can't
>...but I'm too scared to deadlift
>>35055186
>you get bigger muscles benching 95lbs than 325lbs
>a person who deadlifts 135lbs 12x4 has more work capacity than a man who deadlifts 605lbs 6x4
Were you born this retarded or did you have to work for it?
>>35055278
>implying youll bench 95 with a hypertrophy routine in the same time as it takes to get a 325 bench with a strength routine
>implying a guy doing 10x225 couldnt be bigger than a guy doing 5x315
>>35055221
>callouses are aesthetic
I can work my posterior chain in safer more controlled ways without damaging my hands. There is no point in doing deadlifts unless you powerlift.
>>35055302
and anyway, i was arguing against the strength base thing, not that strength training would be worse for aesthetics.
>>35055311
learn to grip the bar properly
>>35055302
>implying a guy who dls 315x5 couldnt dl 225x10
>implying a person who dls 225x10 could dl 315x5
>>35055311
Hahahahahahhahahaha holy shit what a fag
>>35055311
>having soft, girly hands
Embarassing.
>>35055196
Stop.
Google motor unit recruitment.
Evaluate your position.
Realize you are wrong.
Strength means an ability to contract more muscle fibers, that is a fact. Yes, strength and hypertrophy do feed off each other, someone who has 50% motor unit recruitment whose got double the hypertrophy of someone with 100% motor unit recruitment will have the exact same strength, but for a novice motor unit recruitment is about 100x easier to develop than hypertrophy, so it makes sense to train for that first. So that down the road you can contract more muscle fibers when doing hypertrophy movements.
>>35055338
>implying the guy that has trained the deadlift through sets of ten couldn't still be bigger despite being weaker
>>35055358
stop.
google motor unit recruitment.
evaluate your position.
realize you are wrong.
full motor unit recruitment is only achieve during the heaviest reps. doing for example 3x10, youll only do around 5 reps of full recruitment. it does not fucking matter.
I injured my back badly dead lifting way before i came here. Dead lift isn't worth it IMO. It makes you feel cool and that's about it. Squatting is more important.
>>35055392
Motor unit recruitment is a product of force, not rep scheme, what the fuck are you talking about?
You can achieve maximal recruitment in one rep.
Strength is a by product of CNS efficiency and motor unit recruitment, why in the literal fuck do you think you train in lower rep ranges for strength?
Jesus dude
>he didn't start off with SS
>>35055392
There are essentially 3 styles of training for maximal recruitment,
this is what Westside is built upon,
• The Maximal Effort Method
• The Repeated Effort Method
and
• The Dynamic Effort Method
but even in the repeated effort you are still using around 75% of a one rep max, and enough prerequisite weight to illicit recruitment, which a novice wont be able to do.
maximal effort in low rep ranges is the foundation of strength training for exactly what i am talking about, never give advice on fit.
if you dont want to do deadlifts fine, but building a base first, is the most optimal way to go about doing things.
>>35055392
I hope you realise trying to rationalise the stupid routine you started with to get """aesthetic""" is misleading other newbies and they'll just end up wasting as much time as you did.
Just let your ego take a hit f_am.
>>35055442
>what is size principle
>>35055469
75% is not enough to make every rep full recruitment
>>35055483
sorry but i lift for strength and look like shit. total around 1080, not much, but still.
>>35055358
Listen friend. You're not entirely wrong. But you're not entirely right either.
A novice improves motor unit recruitment very quickly (along with other neuromuscular factors that ALSO impact strength, such as coordination and the ability to surpress inhibition, for example), however this improvement takes place regardless of whether he is working with his 5RM or his 10RM, partly because that, as another anon tried to point out, once the 10RM set approaches its end the largest motor units will indeed be recruitet in accordance with Henneman's size principle.
You're also right that, up until a point, neurological adaptations are easier and faster to gain than hypertrophy adaptations. That's the main reason why we see such a rapid increase in the amount of weight the novice can lift. But once again, this also takes place regardless of whether our novice is working with his 5RM or 10RM.
>>35054989
Deadlifts train traps, forarms, lats, spinal erectors, glutes, hamstrings, and queads. Basically. Ever thing behind you. So a strong deadlifted will look as the tic from the back. Just make sure to accompany your heavy pulling with some heavy Chinn ing so you can also attain back width.
>>35055515
they dont do that much for your lats though. impact on forearms is often exaggerated too
>>35055567
Grip strength on deadlift is entirely from the forearm; there are no muscles in the fingers. If you can grip over 300 pounds with stick-like forearms then post pics.
