What were you lifts at when you stopped doing a 3x5/5x5 AB split (SS,SL,etc)? How long did it take you?
I'm not trying to get out of doing SL, I'm going to until I hit 1/2/3/4, but I'd like to hear how long most people stick with it before going to some ineffective bro split or PPL.
>>34975524
Full body all the way
>>34975524
>ineffective bro split
so you mean what most pro bbers do.. ineffective
>>34975564
Bro splits are only more effective than a full body routine when you're taking steroids
>>34975578
i went from 175 to over 200 doing an ineffective brosplit. natty
decreased bodyfat to around 10% while
if youre going hard, especially natty, a brosplit gives you adequate time to recover and get strength gains week to week
I hit 1/2/3/3.5 before I hopped off SS. My deadlift would've been at 4 plates had I not dropped the exercise for 3 months.
I'm currently on TM going for 1.5/3/4/5 and then I plan to switch to 5/3/1.
Also OP, you do realize strength training with accessories on a small surplus will give better gains for a natty lifter than a brosplit? Once you hit that measly 3 plate squat, you'll want more.
>>34975621
>Also OP, you do realize strength training with accessories on a small surplus will give better gains for a natty lifter than a brosplit? Once you hit that measly 3 plate squat, you'll want more.
Yeah I know brosplits aren't going to bring me much strength gains. I was planning on PPL just so I can focus more on my body parts that are lacking since I have pretty uneven genetics (Legs are way ahead of everything else, chest is pretty shit). I guess making my own modified full body split would be the smartest though.
What does TM have over SS/SL? Does it basically just "simulate" the deload that rip recommends when you stall, giving you constant strength gains?
>>34975604
No, you didn't.
>>34975604
estatting at its finest
>>34975670
Not him but you eventually won't be able to recover from a new PR every workout like in SS.
TM has you PRing every week
5/3/1 every month
It's what I plan on doing to get 1/2/3/4 because I know there's no way I'll do it on SS alone
>>34975604
>if youre going hard, especially natty, a brosplit gives you adequate time to recover and get strength gains week to week
the complaint against brosplits is that working a body part only once a week does nothing unless you're on steroids.
>>34975604
>i built 25lbs+ of pure muscle while cutting
unless this was over the course of 5 years, youre a liar
>>34975621
height and weight? Trying to hit these numbers for 5 rep sets before I hit my year mark.
>>34975524
Stick with it until it stops giving you good gains and you have had to deload a few times, after that switch to texas method for similar training and gains.
![without-words-Walter-Breaking-bad-Ozymandias-1432135061[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/s1W0nFF.gif "without-words-Walter-Breaking-bad-Ozymandias-1432135061[1].gif")
So I should be able to DL 405 lbs(4pl8) at 150 lbs BW at the end of my strength problem?
>>34976291
Time will tell, everybody is different. You switch program when you cant increase weight every workout on ss/sl and have deloaded two or three times.
when should you start injecting accessories into SL 5x5? straight away? or wait until 2/3/4 pl8?
>>34976543
If you add accessories you will be told that you arent doing the progam.
I would say that feel free to add anything that doesnt fatigue you enough to stall the progress in the big 3, curls and shit are fine.
>>34976602
cool, thanks
>>34975604
What do you gain from lying?
>>34976689
Maybe it took him 5 years, he never said.
>>34976696
Well shit as long as you aren't advanced you can make up your own routine and do that over 5 years if you eat right.
65kg x 4 ohp
105kg x 5 bench
180kg x 4 squat
180kg x 5 Diddly
took me 7 months. started at 64kg, now at 84kg at 5'11
I'm new to /fit/ have hand a bench for 8 months and have lifting seriously for 1 -2 months and just been doing a brosplit. Recently learnt about SS and have read the sticky but multiple threads people say it's a meme and you look like pic, I've been researching it today and unsure what to do. Should I start strength program, what one and is go mad worth it, 6ft 68 kg/150lbs skinny/skinny fat
Also what does 1/2/3/4 mean
>>34976769
different pl8s
>>34976760
you realize SS is a meme is a meme right? Along with ss is a meme is a meme is a meme
>>34976760
Do SS or SL, "SS is a meme" is a meme.
Don't do gomad, its for people that are skeletons.
>>34976769
1pl8 (135lbs) OHP
2pl8 (225 lbs) Bench Press
3pl8 (315 lbs)squat
4pl8 (405 lbs) deadlift
All for 5 reps. It's near the natty limit.
>>34976799
"All for 5 reps. It's near the natty limit."
Are you for real?
>>34975524
I kept slacking off. I wouldn't say I ever completely stopped going to the gym, but there were times (like last bit of last couple terms at school) when I skipped out for an entire month. On top of that I got injured a few times. Only once in the gym. I kept trying to force myself to do heavier bench and overhead presses when my arms were sore and inflamed. I wrenched my back working for my dad, then again helping a friend move.
It dragged out my time on Starting Strength to nearly four years.
But when I stopped I had hit (all in pounds, for five reps) 182.5 on OHP, 245 on bench, 395 on squats and 460 on deadlifts. This was at 230lbs, 22% (measured, not a guess) body fat.
This was recently. I'm trying to maintain my lifts while dropping body weight now. I haven't decided yet when I'm done (aiming for 15%bf) if I'll do Texas Method or go to a Starr/Stone type periodization.
>>34976799
Thanks
Any SS or SL routines
I heard SS can cause knee problems due to squatting so regularly is this true, I also have slight back problems
>>34975604
la black singer against untruthful statements
>>34976760
To be completely, 100% honest, SS is just kind of a necessary evil. It won't get you the body you want, in fact you most likely won't notice any difference with just it (add some arm isolation exercises at least so you can at least get some arms) but it will get you strong FAST and that strength will help you do a real routine once you're done with your linear progression (or earlier, if you're happy with the strength you have at some point). A big problem people have with SS is that when you're 3-4 months in and you still can't see a difference in your body, you start getting demotivated, even if you're benching three times as much as you did when you started.
You will get memed a lot talking about SS on /fit/ though. People saying you will get the body of your dreams doing it, people saying you should never do it, people trolling you with diets (you're 190 pounds? sure, do GOMAD!). There's also the fact that Rippetoe is kind of crazy and thinks that if you don't do the diet part of SS, you're not really doing the program.
Rip also constantly switches between saying "if you had even ONE exercise to SS, you're not doing my routine":
>My program is 3x/week barbell training until the strength gains produced by linear progression are exhausted. That's it, the whole program. Adding a bunch of other stuff in, or even adding a little other stuff in makes it NOT MY PROGRAM, because it fundamentally alters your response to the stress. Do what you want, of course, but it won't be my program if you do it your way.
and telling you you can do whatever you want (see: teaching curls in his book for example)
Finally, power cleans are retarded.
>>34975564
>>34975604
>>34975578
>>34976046
is brosplits a new meme?
>>34975670
The point of any intermediate program is that once you're past beginner, the amount of work that makes your body try to adapt and improve is so much that you can't possibly recover from it in a measly 48 hours.
So some intermediate programs spread it out through the week, for instance, with a heavy, medium, and light day. The heavy day is the primary driver of growth, which the medium day contributes to as well, then the light day is basically part of recovery but reminds your body what's expected of it (and is also one of the best times to add some minor accessories).
Texas Method is similar except the heavy day is specifically a high volume day, and the "medium" day is more like another heavy day, but focused on power and intensity (however, it's still the sheer amount of joules you exert on volume day that causes the growth).
Other plans compensate for the lowered recovery to required effort ratio with a split, doing work that hits one muscle really hard one day, then only hitting that same muscle lightly the rest of the week.
Who here squat, bench, deadlift + accessories each on a different day, 2 times a week each?
Good for gains?
OHP 3x5x67.5kg
bench 3x5x112.5kg
squat 3x5x130kg (had to deload a lot due to technique issues)
DL 1x5x180kg
180cm/92kg
ive been lifting for four years though. first years were kinda shit cause i didnt eat nearly enough. ive now gained 20kg since i started, bf% from maybe 13 to 20. at one point i got pharyngitis which somehow lead to some kind of overtraining shit, took me almost a year to come back to where i was. then i had a year of conscription during which i lost almost 10 kilos and lifted once in two weeks or so, again losing like 25% off my lifts. after that ive been almost linearly progressing to this point, started at about 45/75/90/140 kilos for reps.
>>34976848
Rip does not recommend gomad for fatties and powercleans give crazy upperback/trap/forearm gains.
>>34976830
Starting Strength and Strong Lifts both prevent back and knee problems by squatting so often.
I actually used to have weak knees; now it's sort of weird to remember that running up stairs hurt them, like that sounds fake.
Starting Strength has a variation that involves doing back extensions or glute/ham raises at the beginning, it's for people that have pre-existing back problems, to work them out before you start squatting or deadlifting heavy. I highly recommend you read the book. You don't have to read every single word from the exercise chapters, the most important stuff is in the programming chapter.
>>34976848
Thank you so much for your response exactly what I was looking for
Could I intergrate a general routine with isolations on my rest days whilst doing a SS or SL or will my rest days be necissary. Or just add isolations (biceps/tricep curls) general stuff into my SS/SL days
>>34976848
Firstly, Power Cleans are awesome.
Second, he teaches a lot of accessories in the book, for people who want to make their own programs based on the principles, or for advanced novices who are ready to tailor the program to their needs.
>>34975524
A lot of people mention the 1/2/3/4 thing, probably because it's easy to remember.
But Rippletoad says that on SS, a program oriented towards sports, 1.5/2/4/5 is closer to the ratio (though you'll only be at those actual numbers by the end of SS if you're beefy).
>>34976903
By back problems I meant kyphosis (curvature of the thoracic spine) I do stretches for it but does the same apply?
>>34976848
>and telling you you can do whatever you want (see: teaching curls in his book for example)
its a book about barbell training, not just the novice program. the exercises at the end are not meant to be added freely to the novice program.
and yeah he says "add curls cause youre gonna add them anyway". but curls arent really gonna affect your recovery anyway, unlike adding dips and triceps and pec deck like some people do.
>>34976893
> powercleans give crazy upperback/trap/forearm gains.
nah, it gives you doms for sure but the time under tension is so small it doesnt really do much.
>>34976903
>Starting Strength has a variation that involves doing back extensions or glute/ham raises at the beginning, it's for people that have pre-existing back problems, to work them out before you start squatting or deadlifting heavy
no, its for people who might not recover from deadlifting as often. rippetoe is specifically _against_ back extensions and shit if you have back problems.
>>34976928
>But Rippletoad says that on SS, a program oriented towards sports, 1.5/2/4/5
[citation needed]. zach did like 1/2/3/3.2 for reps after LP
>>34976893
Indeed, but here are some Rip quotes
>An adult male weighs at least 200 pounds.
>You guys that worry about eating clean are actually merely bodybuilders looking for justification for your obsession with abs. You cannot get big and strong on 3000 kcal/day. And you cannot eat 7000/day and eat perfectly "clean".
>Well, Rip knows that a 135-pound, 5’ 9”, 18-year-old kid doesn’t look like either Ronnie or Rip, even if he has a twelve-pack, and that if he seriously wants to head in that direction the first thing to do is to gain about 60 pounds. Ole Rip also knows that women don’t really care about abs. They care about Other Things. And after all, you asked Rip; he didn’t ask you. So put down your Muscle and Fiction, do your squats, drink your milk, and pay better attention to the answers when you ask the questions.
>Eating correctly may mean 6000 calories/day with a gallon of whole milk, or it may mean 3500 calories/day on a paleo-type lower carb no-dairy diet, depending on your initial body composition. If this or its equivalent did not happen, you’re not doing the program. During this period of time it is common to gain 5-10 pounds of bodyweight if you are underweight, or to stay about the same if you are in need of bodyfat loss.
The last one basically says if you're fat, you shouldn't really even be losing weight at first. The other ones tell you that you should really just gain weight and that if you aren't lifting for strength you're an idiot.
He also pretty much only has power clean in the program to help with the deadlift (according to him) and "because an explosive movement is a valuable contribution to power production." Power cleans are fucking retarded.
>>34976928
>Second, he teaches a lot of accessories in the book, for people who want to make their own programs based on the principles
yeah, and then he tells you that you're not doing the program
>>34976929
No, that's mostly for people with week lumbar muscles.
I'm honestly not sure about kyphosis, you might ask your doctor. But if it's related to postural muscle problems, most people that do a strength program develop much better posture because of stronger muscles and better muscular awareness.
>>34976885
add OHP and you're set. Train hard and expect massive gains.
>>34976915
>Could I intergrate a general routine with isolations on my rest days whilst doing a SS or SL or will my rest days be necissary.
Nooooooooooooooooo
You NEED those rest days to progress. You can add isolation exercises at the end of your workouts.
