>tfw when you're seriously considering going vegan
Like there are no arguments against them except "oh well we've been eating meat for thousands of years so it must be right"
Plus now that WHO has found a correlation between meat consumption and cancer, I think it's time. Who's with me?
>inb4 say goodbye to your gains
but there's a correlation between being vegan and being an animal
But anon you're made of meat.
Also I feel like vegetarianism would be doable for me, but I don't know about veganism. I would like to still consume eggs.
>meat is natural
>we have been eating meat for like forever
I always respond that we have been using tobacco for thousands of years also and tobacco is natural. It makes meat eaters stfu everytime.
>>34917406
Go vegan if you want to but don't be adick about it.
Good luck deeling with the effects of damaged brain tissue over 10 years because the lack of irreplaceable amino acids
What do you guys think about vegetarianism??
>>34917441
meat eaters survived and thrived
tobacco users die at a much higher rate
you're literally retarded for making that analogy
>>34917406
WHO found a correlation between processed meat consumption and cancer, but we already knew processed meat was bad. And a possible correlation between red meat consumption and cancer.
Here's an argument against veganism though - it's impractical as fuck. I could go vegeterian though. I'm all for saving cows and seals and shit, but cutting out all animal products completely from diet is a hell of a commitment.
>>34917406
Look at me I'm a vegan,
Even if you still eat meat you have the vegan mentality going for you, you should also try crossfit and scientology
>>34917474
He's not more retarded than people making an appeal to nature though.
>>34917441
Good point. A cigar after a big ass steak is great
>>34917406
>muh fluffy animals
It's a doggy dog world.
>>34917406
Its a very small increased probability of developing cancer. From 5% to 6% if you do eat meat (iirc). https://youtu.be/UqvXc4q0NyM
Ultimately it's up to you. All the research is out there about every diet from pro and con stand points. Make up your own informed mind.
>>34917406
assuming an immortal life span, everyone would eventually get cancer due to the way cells grow
life's not permanent i might as well eat a goddamned steak now and again
>>34907385
>>34917406
This thread this morning had a very good discussion in it
>>34917441
HUOMIO HUOMIO SUOMALAINEN HAVAITTU
Meat is fucking delicious.That's my argument.Fuck off.,sissy.
I once was the great hippi girl anal punisher.
Went full vegetable for 6 months Felt good and lost weight.
Now I eat 400g of chicken everyday, eggs, cheese and stuff. Fuck dem hippies (in the ass)
I'm going Vegetarian/Flexitarian. I'm just doing it for health reasons (because I'm forced to eat healthier, otherwise I'd just hit my macros with McDonalds) and partly because of moral reasons (climate change, world hunger and so on).
My plan is to eat pretty much Vegan with the exceptiom of my Whey protein which I still have a few KGs of powder left, but enjoy a nice meal with meat/fish on weekends/social occasions. So it isn't even hard because I meal prep anyways and in restaurants I'll have the occasional steak. Plus I can't eat chicken anymore, beginning to hate the texture and taste after two years of eating chicken everyday. Some Vegan protein sources will be a nice mix.
>>34917722
Eat lot's of nuts
>>34917741
She's a virgin?
>>34917722
also I'm doing it because of money reasons. Meat is waay to expensive here in Switzerland (even chicken is Like 7$ per pound).
>>34917747
will do
>>34917660
postaa lisää hipi töts.I just want to anal punish the hipi grills
but I enjoy food.
>>34917840
Error: You must wait 3 minutes 34 seconds before posting a duplicate reply.
>>34917406
listen up you overly politically correct bikeshedding loaf: you have too much time on your hands. you are seriously debating whether or not people should be eating animals. animals eat other animals. that's life. watch some videos of lions tormenting their prey for no apparent reason on youtube. watch birds push other birds out of the nest. i mean come on. that's the wild. yes, you are the universe coming to understand itself, but you are still a part of that universe. teh human brain evolved this far BECAUSE humans included meat into the diet.
oh look, it's this thread again
I watched Cowspiracy yesterday... it has made me feel like we should all be vegans for environmental reasons. anyone else seen it?
>>34917973
You will enjoy hippie bunnies more when you start eating rabbit foods like grass and pine cones
>>34917990
that's the thing about conspiracy theory, they are impossible to deny logically because they are beyond logic.
>>34917406
Do whatever you want bro, it's your life. Plus you'll get mad cred with vegan girls. Enjoy your kinky as fuck sex with left-wing hippy chicks.
>>34917406
eat nothing but broccoli and beans and live to 92 or eat eat meat and dairy and live to 89
tough choice m8
you know what else would extend your life expectancy? never leaving the house, not driving, not drinking alcohol
just lock yourself in a room and read books
>>34918013
So much hippie girl anal punishment
Been there done'd that'd
>>34918035
>live to 92 or eat eat meat and dairy and live to 89
>enjoy living a healthy life until 92
>get cancer and live a miserable life until you finally die at 89
>>34917505
You do realize it's "a dog eat dog" world, right?
>>34918122
Clearly everyone who eats meat gets cancer.Enjoy your no gains you scrawny noodle armed faggot.Do you even lift weights?Please feel free to stop making a fool out of yourself.
>>34918192
Stop ruining her delicate hippie girl fantasy thoughts.
World is pink as it should be.
>>34917488
Appeal to nature is legit. People just dislike it because they cannot defeat such an argument.
>cow's milk gives me horrible flatulence
>soy milk tastes like vanilla-flavored shitwater
>almond milk and rice milk are more than twice as expensive as cow's milk (€2.17 for almond and €2.09 for rice milk vs €0.79 for cow's milk)
Well, shit. What do I add to my oats?
>>34917406
Been vegan for a few months now, feeling pretty good. It's your life op, live how you want to
![1347914754182237[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/X2l4cu5.jpg "1347914754182237[1].jpg")
>>34918321
Lactose-free milk?
>>34918294
Educate yourself, fucking pleb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
>>34918321
Goats milk bro. Shit tastes good and doesn't give you bloatness puffy nipples and farting of cow.
>>34917406
Everything causes cancer, and yet there are alcoholic chain smokers that sunbathe and look like leathery undead at 90 years old no problem.
Just live your life.
>>34918321
The only right answer, make your own for pennies.
I'm just eating less meat.
I eat it maybe 3 or 4 meals a week instead of eating it like twice a day before.
The problem is that we're eating too much low quality shit and overdoing it. With all the money I save by eating less I can afford to buy better cuts.
>>34917406
>not knowing it's a correlation between processed meat
>thinking avoiding processed meat means you should cut it ALL animal products
You know what, OP, do it.
If you're that fucking retarded, any gains you made were probably by accident.
>>34917441
>we have been using tobacco for thousands of years
>>34917406
Ok, more meat for us.
>>34917966
>>34917981
get the porn out of here,you fucking degenerates
>>34918321
>Well, shit. What do I add to my oats?
Oat milk. Duh.
Although when I ate oats I ate it with whey protein.
>>34917406
>WHO has found a correlation between meat consumption and cancer
Surveying people who have been eating meat for decades they found that:
The results showed a 20% increase in the odds of getting cancer which is a lot
...except it only goes up from 5% to 6% (a 20% increase)
So, fuck that shit, my ancestors didn't claw their way tot the top of the food chain just for me to toss it away like that
>>34917966
>>34917981
reported
>>34917406
>"Cattle consume 16times more energy in grain than they produce in beef, meat is wasteful!"
What exactly are we wasting? If everyone suddenly stopped eating meat, what would we do with all that excess grain?
The answer is that the demand on grain would plummet and so would the price, farming wouldn't be profitable so the fields would be abandoned. Not using 90% of our fields would be wasteful.
Or maybe you think we could "feed the hungry" with that grain? You're a fucking idiot then. If starvation could be fixed with more grain we'd make more grain, or rather the starving people would do it themselves. The problem is that when a drought hits a certain region in an undeveloped country they suddenly don't have enough food. Why are they devastated by a drought but we aren't? Because we produce much more food than we need, because we usually use it in less than optimally efficient ways. Why don't they? They do, they have cows, they have chickens, they breed them and feed them excess grain during good times and slaughter them during worse times. They don't have as many of them as we do though, because they don't have the tools and infrastructure needed to farm efficiently, so they normally only produce a couple of times more grain than they need, and that's why they are starving.
>>34917406
Getting enough protein per calorie is gonna be hard going vegan.
Greek yogurt on the other hand is a meat free protein source so if you worry about that tiny risk maybe vegetarianism is the way to go.
>>34917406
Vitamin B12 is only in meat, fish, eggs. Without it you'll have anemia
>>34917406
> Have considered going "home vegan"
> Eat like vegan at home and when able to prepare own meals
> Don't stress about it when eating out/at mates' places
All the bonuses with none of the stigma, I suppose. And it's not like you'd be going back on anything, 'cause you're not doing it to save the animals, just to save yourself.
>>34918321
Goat milk for goat gains.
GOAT
O
A
T
vegans on suicide watch again as they meticulously lay out their posts only to be told no because their argument is so uncompelling.
gee i bet that's annoying.
I go vegetarian / vegan if you gave me a 4000 calorie plus meal plan that tasted good. But until that point...
>>34917406
what is coeliac disease e.g
>>34919139
no, vegans do have the moral high ground and everyone knows it, it is just easier and more comfortable to hand wave and say you don't give a fuck because chances you get away with.
And of course, most vegans are irritating as fuck.
>>34919148
>Pasta, whole wheat, 8oz uncooked noodles (820~ kcal, 4g fat (0sat), 24g fiber, 28g protein
>Pasta sauce with that (120~ kcal, tons of fucking vitamins and whatever the fuck you want for fat/salt, 4-6g protein, 4g fiber~
>A small loaf of whatever fucking bread you want, take a freezer shit white bread for example (3servings, 360kcal, 15g protein, 3-4g fiber, 0g fat)
>1300-1400kcals no oil, no meat, no fake-meat nottin'
>Cost - $2 -> 5 depending on fanciness and prep time (make your own bread?)
>Oats (500calories)
>Some blueberries (70calories)
>Coconut sugar (20-30calories)
>Maple syrup (30calories)
>Spices if you want
>650calories for a small bowl, no added bullshit, easily add more with peanut butter or whatever kike shit you want
>Add a lil' soymilk or other pseudo-milk to boost calories and protein too, or drink on side
>Cost - $1-3
>2.5lb baked potatoes (Cut up into fries, seasoned with herbs) - 1000-1200calories~
>Two Gardein chicken sliders baked with them
>ear or bag of corn for good measure
>Cost - With organic potatoes $5-6, with conventional $3~
>Calories 1800~
>Total cost for day - $6 -> $13~
>Calories - 3900~
>Protein - 120g~
>Fiber - 60g~
>Fat, due to this being virtually my meal plan and I like low fat - 20-25g~ only a couple saturated
Add fucking any snack, a clif bar, some fucking oranges, a vegan cookie like Lenny n' larry makes, some bananas, anything, and it only bumps the cost a dollar or two, a few hundred calories, and between 4 -> 20g protein.
If you're really on fucking steroids and need more protein, have you pity brown rice protein, hemp, soy, or whatever (vegan) protein source you want.
Literally replace white bread with something better for better protein as well, or throw in an avocado for some fat, or some oil I suppose to your spaghetti sauce. Or some (vegan) cheese on your spaghetti.
#carbthefuckup
>>34917406
Why does vegans always have to tell the whole world they're vegan?
If its natural, then why do you question about it and so insecure that you have to make other people confirm you doing it?
I don't get it. I think meat eating is natural but I don't want to change vegans mentality nor do I want to convince vegans.
Why do vegans always have to shove their ideas to us?
>>34919386
Excellent post, sir. Educational, relevant and snarky.
Alas, the creepiest picture in the history of 4chan.
>>34917406
eating pan fried kale and lentis right now, with a nice glass of pu-erh tea
but fuck being vegan,idk how people do it
Good luck getting a decent amount of protein with a complete amino acid profile
Good luck getting your vitamin b12
Good luck getting your calcium
Good luck getting your omega 3
Good luck getting your CQ10
Good luck getting enough bioavailable iron
Good luck getting any carnosine
Good luck getting enough choline
Good luck getting enough Phosphatidylserine
Good luck getting enough Taurine
Good luck getting enough Phytanic Acid
The only reason to be a vegan is to be an emotional sjw kek.
If you want to do a vegan diet because you heard it's healthy, consider a balanced diet instead, one with both animal and plant foods
>>34919410
It's how you spot a retarded fanatic, applies to everything from religion to food to smartphone os preference.
>>34919411
go away leddit
>>34919386
Here I was kind enough to put it all into cronometer for you >>34919148.
I added in one snack of an entire cookie, and bam, over 4000calories.
Excuse me too, the proteins were right on these results.
I lowballed it in my estimation it's more like 161g of protein and all your aminos all over the place, all your vitamins and minerals, etc etc, less than or around 20g of soy only (could leave out without gardein's), and not even including any vegetables or fruits if you don't like them. Personally I put broccoli yesterday in the spaghetti, but I don't care to change that.
>>34919410
>Why do the doctors keep shoving their ideas on us?
>I don't get it, I think smoking is perfectly alright and I don't want to change how they behave, nor do I want to inconvenience them.
>I just want them to stop telling me that it's so bad for me and others and the entire world.
>>34919489
All of what you listed can either be replaced by a supplement for cheap (literally b12 and that's it) or I get more than enough of, or my body can produce naturally if I have enough of the other vitamins.
Studies have even shown you don't need as much calcium as they claim, and that animal products are bad for your calcium levels, but even ignoring that I GOT MY FUCKING CALCIUM.
>>34919411
What's wrong with it? She's clearly vegan.
:3
>>34919511
No. I like it here.
>>34917406
Next you are going to join feminism you no test ass bitch .Fuck you, are no long allowed to come to /fit/ pussy fem ass health fag of no gains
>>34919567
>no test
But that's literally you tinyboii.
http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/12/less-cancer-in-vegan-men-despite-more-testosterone/
>>34919521
The only problem I've got with your diet is the carbs. Will loose those defined abs if I so this.
>>34917406
>>tfw when you're seriously considering going vegan
No you're not. You're already vegan, and you're starting the same thread every single day. I swear, a small group of vegans is responsible for at least 50% of the shitposting on this board. You're not "considering" anything, you're either a troll looking for bait or a vegan proselytizing.
>>34917513
>meat increases risk of bowel cancer by 5%
>smoking increase risk of lung cancer by 2500%
>lung cancer is extremely rare in non-smokers who haven't been exposed to much secondhand smoke
>bowel cancer is relatively common, check-ups for it are common so it's likely to be spotted early
I love when people act like these are in any way comparable.
>>34919521
>What's wrong with it?
>Posts child on 4chan board.
>Pic contains name.
>Thinks this is ok.
You give me sads, anon.
>>34919592
Why exactly?
There's a reason why on (most) nutritional label(s) it says "less than" for fat, cholesterol, sat fat, etc, but not for carbs.
Carbs don't make you fat, they're your bodies primarily or most easily acessed energy source, and fruthermore, if you eat too many you shouldn't have a problem following calories in/out, or simply because there's no reason you would.
Add on that many claim or have "proven" that carbs take around 10-20x the energy to store as fat than actual fat does, and you'll be fine in that regard. That could hurt your calorie goals, which is why I always eat over what I need, as it appears to reflect my weight on the scale.
Even if so, throw out the white bread and buns and eat chicken strips from gardein instead of sliders, and then just eat an avacado somewhere, or throw some oil into your spaghetti sauce. Or some (vegan) cheese I guess.
Bam, less carbs, more fat, still solid 140-150g+ protein.
Also, albeit a seemingly meth-headed banana-guy, durianrider has "abs" and is skinny despite eating this many carbs. He just doesn't fucking lift, ever, and tries to be skinny so he can bike better.
>>34919632
>Bowel cancer is common so it's not just a meat problem!
You fucking what 'lad?
Regardless, add in bowel cancer, breast cancer, lymph cancer, and all those other cancers, and you still have a higher chance of cancer (apparently), not to mention heart disease, diabetes, etc.
Even if not, it certainly makes me feel better energy wise, and it's better for the environment, cheaper, and m-muh fluffi bunni.
>>34919653
E-explain 'lad.
>>34917441
>Hundreds-millions of years
=/=
>1000s of years.
The connection was found between only certain types of meat, such as hotdogs and that sort of processes shit. In other foods it was negligible. On top of that, you're going to get carcinogens in barbeque but EVERYTHING has carcinogens.
Just fucking get over it and stop being such a massive fucking pussy, enjoy your life or else spent the entirety of it as a health-freak dickweed.
By the way, eating too much soy will literally make you grow breast tissue from the estrogen, so have fun on that diet broski.
>>34919687
>Carbs don't make you fat
I understand your arguments, but it also depends on the person. I don't thrive on starchy carbs and can't keep my energy up on carb diets, on top me gaining weight either because I use less energy or because I process it differently from protein diets. For me personally protein works, and it is the only thing that seem to work (from current experience at least). That being said, about 80% of my diet is fruit and veg, only 20% protein and fats, so from a health perspective I don't think I'm doing too bad.
>>34919697
>By the way, eating too much soy will literally make you grow breast tissue from the estrogen, so have fun on that diet broski.
Not only don't you not need soy, and yesterday I only got like 20g/protein from it yesterday, which is high for me on around 4000kcal a day, but that's not even true according to many studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
Not to mention soy actually has beneficial effects in some ways.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/4/1155.long
Still, on the safe side, you can opt for less to no soy protein, but most things have a little, and it's really not all that bad. It's certainly better than dairy, which is claimed to have similar effects as you claim.
>Just fucking get over it and stop being such a massive fucking pussy, enjoy your life or else spent the entirety of it as a health-freak dickweed.
To enjoy my life, I must feel good in my body first and foremost.
To do that, it's ideal to eat a vegan diet from my findings.
>The connection was found between only certain types of meat, such as hotdogs and that sort of processes shit. In other foods it was negligible.
There are plenty of other studies that support that it all causes cancer. I believe the report said all processes and all red meat causes cancer (definitely), which leaves out most of the meat there is, leaving you with only fresh chicken breasts, which they didn't explicitly list as extremely horrid for you.
The only reason to justify meat in your diet in the first place is protein, which isn't needed to be derived from meat, so your argument is garbage anyways.
>>34919769
That day was particularly starchy, which you could have problems with I suppose, but they're mostly there for calories and substance for me, if you wanted you could replace that with broccoli & avacado and stuff.
Meat, unless really fatty, doesn't have many calories, and thus it's not really essential. Eat oranges.
>>34919817
>Meat, unless really fatty, doesn't have many calories, and thus it's not really essential.
This is the oddest argument I've heard.
When I replace meat, fish, eggs and dairy with vegan choices I get less gains. There is also a difference in blood pressure from my side, which can be dangerous since I have a condition. Most people don't get this, and I understand that some people can thrive on the diet, but unless there comes good alternatives to animal proteins that give me the same stabile health, same gains, surplus of energy, good sleep and no hunger pangs, I will choose to keep my diet omnivore and have that avocado on top of a cod filet rather than to eat the avocado alone..
the arguments for gong vegan are
1. health
2. morals
health: no study has been conducted that eating small amounts of meat is bad.
morals: morals are made by society, thus the idea of killing other animals is fine so long as it is governed by society, which it is.
>>34917406
iktf
my compromise has been to not buy meat
i still have meat at least once a day , thanks to mom and dad .
>>34919632
Smoking and processed meat are compared because they are both common things that people are exposing themselves to. Are they different magnitudes of increased risk? Yes very clearly they are. The video also points out that they are very different in risk magnitudes and said saying "meat is as bad as smoking" is wrong.
The guy in the video also compared it to uranium and wood dust. Two other carcinogens in the same category as processed meat.
>>34919946
>small amounts
>/fit/
>>34918122
> 18/1000 people get cancer from eating processed meat
>6/100 people get cancer regardless of diet
> therefore all people who eat meat die of cancer and people who don't eat meat are excluded from the 6/100
>>34919946
Not a vegan but there are a couple of arguments you missed out.
3. Smaller environmental impact
( Easier to feed more people with less land use, less of a carbon footprint and smaller volumes of water needed to produce the same amount of protein )
4. Im sure there is another reason or 2
3 is the only reason I would consider going vegan but since one person literally can't make a difference in this case I don't see much point. To make a difference in carbon emissions you have to stop China. To fix the land use issue you need to close down farms and start growing crops which won't happen untill significantly larger numbers of people go vegan.
>>34919907
Well it's not the aminos, because I clearly got more than enough of that and protein in general.
It really sounds like you weren't eating enough, honestly, that would explain literally all your symptoms.
No diet (naturally) works for 100% of people, but generally the vast majority can thrive on it, such as 99.8% of people being able to thrive on veganism, you could just be the small amount who can't.
Certain peoples bodies are just different and strange for no apparent reason, or due to a disease or past illness, which there can't be much to do about that (naturally).
I don't think those people should be vegan, just that they shouldn't gorge their self on (X) product.
Gonna go shopping, but honestly I think you just weren't eating enough, or that you are allergic to gluten or something. Personally I, and every other vegan who lifts that I know, didn't lose any gains when they switched nor has their progress halted.
>>34919946
Small amounts do not constitute anything like what /fit/ eats. Small amounts with no (proven) results more than statistical correlation is around 1chicken breast a week.
I don't see why tiny amounts would benefit you though if it's bad in general, and regardless that's a fine line that isn't what is really relevant.
>>34920175
>3 is the only reason I would consider going vegan but since one person literally can't make a difference in this case I don't see much point. To make a difference in carbon emissions you have to stop China. To fix the land use issue you need to close down farms and start growing crops which won't happen untill significantly larger numbers of people go vegan.
uwot'lad?
Chinese citizens use 3x less fossil fuels even with manufacturing included, their numbers is what causes them to overlap the us double-fold.
Furthermore, a lot is because of the US and their business efforts in China, as well this doesn't take into account the farming impacts, only construction/transport/manufacture, which Chinese citizens don't eat nearly as much meat, as much food, as much dairy, etc.
It's not China.
>>34920175
>To fix the land use issue you need to close down farms and start growing crops which won't happen untill significantly larger numbers of people go vegan.
Or we could stop filtering our crops through animals and just eat them ourselves, while reducing the land usage by around 50%~
>>34920244
>China's emissions are twice that of US who is the next largest carbon emission country
>Its not China's fault tho
I know it's for the reasons you have said but the point still stands that until China (and the US) significantly reduce their emissions there is not much anyone can do to stop global warming.
And no its not just population sizes, India is 1/3 of the emissions of the US
>>34920364
I too enjoy eating grass.
Not sure about your country but here livestock is mainly fed grass (fresh from the ground and dried like hay) feeding crops to livestock is uncommon in the sense that you are talking 1 paddock out of 6-7 are crops for livestock. And then the crops are not things that I would want to eat again (tried them once and that's enough )
>>34918549
One guy gets it. I'm same as you.
I looked into some local farms that sell to a store near my house. Actual free range livestock, reasonable stocking levels, pretty respectable treatment of livestock right up until the choppity choppity.
>>34920556
>I know it's for the reasons you have said but the point still stands that until China (and the US) significantly reduce their emissions there is not much anyone can do to stop global warming.
What?
If you eat meat often you essentially contribute as much CO2 emissions as the average American or Australian. If you stop that, that's meaningful.
>And no its not just population sizes, India is 1/3 of the emissions of the US
Yes it is, because India has shit quality of life, infrastructure, transportation, etc, compared to China, and they don't even produce as heavy of CO2 intensive materials.
China has x4.5~ as many people as America and barley produces double what the US produces (CO2 wise).
>Grass
HA
Most livestock across the world don't eat grass. Maybe in the farms next to your city, but where the meat actually comes from, no, it's too expensive or land-intensive.
Not to mention grazing is tough on the land, which is why wild animals move from place to place.
You may not want to eat corn or soy all day, so replace it with other crops.
>>34920637
Still unsustainable, not good for you, and m-muh bunni fluffi.
Alsoenjoy your $30/chicken chicken.
>Eat biological meat
>Feel no guilt and remorse
>Best of both worlds
Seriously. Why don't vegans just buy biological meat?
>>34920556
>here livestock is mainly fed grass
True in some countries. The key word is 'mainly'. Still about 40% of processed feed going in their diet. And this is in the countries where they still rely heavily on pastures. In all other areas processed feed is the backbone of meat production.
>>34920783
>Not to mention grazing is tough on the land, which is why wild animals move from place to place.
Eh no. The grazing is fine. They move because the grass has low nutritional density and they need to graze a lot to mantain a healthy weight. Grazing is only hard on the land if the land is abused, which happens when people try to maximize the amounts of animals they can keep, and those people tend to go to processed feeds and cement boxed for their animals instead because it cost less.
>>3;fg2ptqwft
What is your perspective on meat from hunting?
>>34919946
>health: no study has been conducted that eating small amounts of meat is bad.
Plenty of studies of showing excessive smoking increases cancer risk.
"Fuark mate, I will just smoke in moderation".
I sometimes dream of a world without dumb idiots.
>>34918192
being this new
>>34921717
>meat: necessary for survival
>tobacco: just a wasteful pleasure
serious anon don't use autistic analogys and btw drinking too much water can also kill you, then lets stop drinking water
>>34922469
>>34922484
My bacon you shall not eat my bacon!
I shall eat your bacon!
I am never, ever going to be fully convinced there's any kind of health benefit from removing such a major protein source from your diet.
That said I'm going vegetarian (not vegan, because I can reliably get humanely raised eggs and milk) because I'm some kind of faggot and can't stand the idea of fueling my body with unwilling blood.
Veganfags, stop trying to convert people by telling them it's healthier, because it's not. It's bullshit. I accept that it's not healthier and it's going to be harder to feed myself adequately but I'm doing it anyways because I'm done being a goddamn hypocrite and arbitrarily deciding a living being's worth based on how hungry I am.
>>34922584
>because I can reliably get humanely raised eggs and milk
>can
>when I bother.
>>34922584
>live dog dead pig.
Actually dog meat is tastier than pork. Dark and rich.
who /noredmeat/ here?
I eat tons of chicken.
>>34922584
>I am never, ever going to be fully convinced there's any kind of health benefit from removing such a major protein source from your diet.
Close-minded.
>I accept that it's not healthier
The average vegan does have a healthy BMI, which no other eating style comes close to. I think vegans are just more likely to eat whole foods, making them healthier and leaner. So just eat whole foods so it is healthier.
>it's going to be harder to feed myself
I'm assuming you're just starting then? You can cram the calories in with white rice, potatoes, dates, etc. Beans for protein. You won't need as much protein because high carb diets are protein sparing. If you really think you need more protein, get white rice protein from truenutrition. Unflavored. Mix with steva, cinnamon, vanillia extract, and water or nut milk. Tastes like dessert.
>>34922683
>The average vegan does have a healthy BMI
I know three vegans and they are all chubby. A 'healthy' bmi goes all the way to 25. My friends are about 24.5.
That would be the rice, potatoes, dates and nuts...
>>34922683
>more likely to eat whole foods
Nah its just that anyone who would go through the trouble of actually being vegan usually knows enough about dieting to not be obese.
I mean, fucking milk and eggs are in EVERYTHING. Can't even eat some pasta and shit. Pastries? Nah eggs in almost all of them.
I mean its kind of hard to get full on fat with the food you're supposed to eat. You would really have to go out of your way.
>>34919946
>no study has been conducted that eating small amounts of meat is bad.
But there are thousands of studies showing how beneficial a plant based diet is.
>morals: morals are made by society, thus the idea of killing other animals is fine so long as it is governed by society, which it is.
Veganism is getting bigger pretty quickly. It'll end just like slavery.
You forgot the environment argument.
>>34922727
You shouldn't eat processed crap anyway, you muppet. I'm a meatjunkie and I don't touch that shite either.
>hard to get full on fat
nuts, avocadoes, any type of cooking oil.
I'd rather eat a meal with a vegan than a pathetic junk food junkie.
>>34922766
>oil
>junk food
pick 2
>>34922781
>My olive oil is junk food.
>>34922789
>no nutrients aside from some vitamin E
>cripples your arteries
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/olive-oil-and-artery-function/
>>34922789
olive oil creates lipemia and activates clotting factor 7 to the same degree as saturated fat
>>34922637
My parents have a farm and I can get eggs from them. I know several other farmers in the area that I can get milk from. I have worked with them and know them on a personal basis and have cared for the animals myself before. I know it's humane.
Are you fucking done yet?
>>34918805
>>34917981
This doesn't fit into a category of , what you say, 'die CP', do it?
>>34919024
Your research is flawed brah.
It's In nutritional yeast, and b12 vitamins are pretty available everywhere.
>>34922727
>I mean, fucking milk and eggs are in EVERYTHING.
Not really, generally just in garbage.
> Can't even eat some pasta and shit.
You what? Just don't buy protein enriched garbage, buy store-brand whole wheat.
See Kroger's organic whole wheat pasta. Costs $2, 6g fiber 7gprotein every 180calories, and it has 8servings.
So no, I eat pasta many times a week.
>Pastries? Nah eggs in almost all of them.
Pastries? Nah eggs in almost all of them.
What?
What pastries? Any good quality bread is made without eggs, dairy, or any of those products.
The biggest problem is honey with whole-wheat, but that's negligible and can typically be bought without. Typically they don't even put honey on whole-wheat with honey actually (here). Heh.
If you're talking about donuts, hotdog buns, etc, you shouldn't eat that tasteless garbage in the first place. Fucking gross.
I shop at the same places, quicker, and cheaper than I ever had in my life.
I buy stables primarily, and an occasional special thing, then make it into something, as it's cheaper and I can make it how I want with what I want with the macros I want & the flavor I want.
>>34921004
You're forgetting essentially keeping animals that eat large amounts of food will pillage the grass and rape the lands if they aren't allowed out, assuming a normal size operation of them and that they aren't raised by some small-town farmer just for kicks more than anything.
Personally I think it'd still likely be unhealthy, in large amounts especially, and shouldn't be eaten outside survival and extended stays in the wild if needed, however it's more ideal than factory-farm shit.
You still have to remember you're taking away an animals life, not out of need, but just because, and it's not even healthy for you to eat it.
In other words, better, but not ideal by any means.
By meat from hunting I'm assuming hunt to eat, not hunt to store to eat, as then it's virtually just as bad in my opinion.
>>34922683
>Implying that it is the diet not the lifestyle of vegans that makes them healthy
>>34922848
How do they manage to stay in business if they don't kill their animals when their production drops?
>>34922848
Rural boy huh. That's a pretty nice deal, actually. Good for you, anon.
>>34922868
They're largely hobby farms. My parents have like six chickens total and they both have day-jobs. The one I get milk from the husband is a pilot and the wife is a nurse.
>>34917406
Processed meat you stupid fuck. And if you didn't know before the WHO that you shouldn't be eating that shot then gtfo of /fit/.
Its still not as bad as smoking and loads of ppl smoke so whatever
>>34922879
Lifestyle farms are the flash city folk term :^)
>>34922876
I was raised on a dairy farm. You don't have to do any of that small-scale.
vegans have mental problems, just look at any vegan yt channel.
>>34922857
nutritional yeast is junk food.. vegans who smother everything in nutritional yeast and think think they're being healthy are the dumbest cunts
>>34922887
I don't give a shit what you call it. The point is you can get humane sources of protein from them.
>>34922915
>rape factory
>humane
pick one
>>34922860
>You're forgetting essentially keeping animals that eat large amounts of food will pillage the grass and rape the lands if they aren't allowed out, assuming a normal size operation of them and that they aren't raised by some small-town farmer just for kicks more than anything.
Your example used wild animals. This is what I refered to in terms of general 'grazing'. Naturally, any herd forced to stay on the same land for a long time the land will suffer. This is what I meant with the land being 'abused'. My point was that most big production today rely more on factory farming in buildings rather than on fields, the notable exeptions being american plains which are still used, and brazilian abuse of indigenous lands. In europe most countries keep cows locked up most of the time because it minimizes loss in milk production. This way they live mostly on processed feed and never see grazelands. In my country there is still some promotion to use grazelands but farmers complain that it is is difficult to compete on the world market because of the losses.
Only the small farmers use this 'privelige', and they generally use 'outland', I.E. setting the cows out in the wild to let them graze on whatever. This way doesn't abuse the land, at least, and the cows seem pretty happy. Until they are viciously slaughered, of course.
>>34922887
The average farm where I live, as it is impossible to live off farming anymore if you don't go big. Most people around my area keep a few animals to 'keep the farming culture going'.
Lifestyle farms are hipsters going rural. That's different.
>>34922892
But a lot of people do..
>>34918981
>2015
>droughts
Let's get something straight here, the inability of African and poor nations to produce even the faintest hint of aqueducts is fucking nothing.
We could terraform the desert from all of the water that's located inside of the African rainforest. They don't build them however.
And worse over, on the plains, they refuse to build wells to tap the pure aquifers underneath the clay layer.
It's not a weather issue, it's an issue of engineering that refuses to be addressed by African countries.
It's Roman technology, which is so simple that anybody with access to a stream and some concrete can create an underground one. However they are not built.
I went full vegan and it was surprisingly simple. All it really required was self-control and willpower.
>>34923036
Hello bait
>>34923012
>terraform the desert
>>34922860
>Personally I think it'd still likely be unhealthy.
Wild game have a completely different nutritional value than factory farmed meat. Not surprisingly since they eat wild and can choose their own foods. Venison has more omega3 than any domesticated red meat, and seaducks have more omega3 than farmed salmon since they live on seafood.
When I see the hunters and the farmers in my area live past 100 I see it as a sign of health, but then again their lifestyle cannot be recreated everywhere. Lot's of fresh air, meat and dairy. I guess everything must be evaluated in it's own context.
I understand your argument with meat is murder, hunting or not. You cannot avoid taking a life when eating meat, and killing it yourself might make it harder to deal with but it's the same truth. I think the biggest difference between you and me is that I don't mind killing but you do. At least all the animals I eat died by my own hand. For me that makes a big difference. I eat a lot less meat than the typical person because of it.
>>34923036
>>34917406
No memes, I did. It's seriously not difficult. Eat a fuckload of rice and beans, some soymilk, some peanut butter. It doesn't take a dietician.
>>34923237
Do you understand the word bait?
>>34919817
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/soys-negative-effects
Boom. Fuck off now shill, no real man is going to eat your green bean bullshit. If you want to look like vegan-no-gainz then be my guest but don't have the audacity to take every other unassuming newbie down with you.
You're going to point towards a study that only has negative results for PROCESSED meat as a reason not to eat it but try and discount the negative effects of soybeans?
I'll be happy dying 5 years earlier if i don't grow massive bitch-tits and hips
>>34923279
>if i don't grow massive bitch-tits and hips
Your meat has eaten nothing but soy, you muppet. What do you think will happen?
>>34923279
get a load of this guy
he's citing a magazine
lol
>no arguments against them except "oh well we've been eating meat for thousands of years so it must be right"
Look man, even if, on the balance, you feel the arguments for veganism outweigh the ones against it, it doesn't mean the arguments against don't exist.
First and foremost that meat is delicious. Dairy is tasty too. Eggs are to cooking as the comma is to writing.
Also, it's millions of years that our ancestors have been eating (and biologically adapting to) meat, not just thousands.
>>34923455
>First and foremost that meat is delicious. Dairy is tasty too. Eggs are to cooking as the comma is to writing.
it just makes your side look bad when you argue like this
>it's millions of years that our ancestors have been eating (and biologically adapting to) meat, not just thousands.
humans have been around for about 100-250 thousand years. for millions of years before we were human, pre-human apes in the miocene period were almost exclusively plant eaters. this is probably why meat causes so many health problems today.
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-problem-with-the-paleo-diet-argument/
Rate me guys
>>34922876
>>34922629
>>34922584
so are these saying im a terrible person if i don't particularly mind killing animals to feed myself? im not going to compare myself to animals in the wild and say its ok for me to kill for food because they do, because realistically i could survive without eating meat, i wouldnt be happy but i have that option.
I don't think all animals are equal, i consider a dogs life more valuable than a chickens or fishes.
I have been wanting to move away from buying meat at a grocery market. I would ideally like to be able to get all of my meat from hunting and fishing.
>>34923563
you look like a robot pls goback2school
>>34917406
Go flexitarian or vegetarian m8. Find your animal products from farmer's markets. The only real reason I can see for people going full vegan as opposed to just vegetarian is for moral/ethical reasons.
>>34923565
>I would ideally like to be able to get all of my meat from hunting and fishing.
>ideally
Armchair hunter. Go masturbate to Bear Grylls eating rotten zebras.
>>34923541
>it just makes your side look bad when you argue like this
Right back at ya, friend.
Here's a hint, come up with a cogent objection if you actually disagree with something. "I have sour grapes and bad feels about this" is barely even relevant, much less an argument.
Homo Sapiens is about that old, sure. But our most recent common ancestor with chimpanzees was over 5 million years ago, and our Australopithecus forebearers became scavengers and upped the meat portion of our diet almost immediately. In fact, there's a strong argument that it was a subpopulation increasing their meat intake that lead to the speciation in the first place.
>>34923632
>In fact, there's a strong argument that it was a subpopulation increasing their meat intake that lead to the speciation in the first place.
>In fact
KEK
>>34923627
Nah its just been a few years since i hunted last and i missed the season this year.
What don't you like about hunting anon
>>34923696
Why did you miss the season?
>>34923769
I couldnt get any time off from work and modern rifle was incredibly short over here. Ive thought about getting into black powder or archery so i have a longer season, i just have to do some research.
Also all my guns are on the other side of the country, i don't really like borrowing other peoples rifles
>>34919386
You know when vegans claim they can get protein from whole wheat pasta, beans and oats, they know theyre not getting a full amino acid profile right?
>>34923806
I can see that. Other people's equipment is too personal. I recommend archery. Less sound equals more game. It works better for me personally as I don't like firearms.
If you really want to live off what you catch I also recommend snares and traps. It increases you chance of catching enough in season to live off of in the deadtime. You could also check out other species than the most popural ones. There is always a season on something (at least in my country, but if you are us then probably for you too). Over the winter there will be season on fur animals and those are good eats.
>>34923888
I think i have like a 65# recurve bow my cousin gave me. Il pick it up and some arrows when i go back home and try it out. A few of my friends are bow hunters so i can ask them for some tips.
Im not sure how traps are regulated around here but its something i didnt think about.
>>34922972
The wild animals began after (I believe) the domesticated ones ended, the wild animals will of course munch on the land, but them won't munch it into oblivion, as they'll munch, then move on, leaving the land empty for potentially weeks from those who graze as heavily as they do/would.
Grazing in nature is great because they'll move on before the land is ded.
Grazing in human farming is horrid (outside the herders in non-western countries) because it keeps the animals in, virtually always too small of a land for them to graze without ruining the land.
I think any animal that grazes, truly, will be healthier to eat, but still unhealthy for us, just better than if they were fed meal. The problem is it's horrid on the environment at the consumption of meat we're at, and it's horrid already even though most don't buy grazing/grass-fed products.
It's not viable for a farmer to keep their land while farming animals and letting them graze, as it requires way too much land. I know a farmer with only 10-20 cows and they clear his entire 200aqre farm consistently, so much so that he has to purchase hay to feed them.
>>34918981
You literally answered your own question.
We don't feed the hungry because it wouldn't be profitable, because the price of grain would be virtually free.
>>34923224
I know the nutritional value is better, and it is a lot better.
I just don't think it's a required thing to eat, nor is it particularly healthy for humans none the less. I don't think we are built to eat meat, but rather we have adapted or managed for so long to get through hard times. Nothing more. If you don't have to eat meat, because it's not a "hard time" then you shouldn't, as it's healthier for you.
I don't necessarily mind killing, it's just that there is no need, and I don't believe it's even beneficial for me to eat it, so there's no point in me or others doing it so I can eat it, especially when I can have the same flavors and foods I like without it.
>>34919386
Not the pedophile vegan again. Why aren't you banned yet?
>>34923224
>>34923973
To continue on that, I've actually found I enjoy fake-meat better than real meat, as it has the same (or better) flavor, better nutrition (on the label and more imo), and is about the same or cheaper than real meat.
I don't eat it much none the less, but it certainly is the best tasting "meat" thing I've eaten from a frozen section in my life.
>>34923279
So menshealth is more reliable than a meta-analysis from pubmed?
I genuinely would have never guessed. Especially since there is literally no source in that entire article. No study, no book even, nothing.
Enjoy dying 5years earlier, at least, feeling like shit for the 5-10years before you die earlier than me, and feel out of energy long before than and lose all your gains along with said energy.
I'll continuing making those vegan gainz :^)
>>34923455
To have to biologically adapt to something is to said material not being applicable with the adaptee.
I'd beg to differ in regards to eggs & dairy, and most meat types, and even go so far to say those meat types only taste okay because of the seasoning and fake-versions are waaay better generally. Ever heard of tough, rubbery tasteless chicken? I have.
>>34923865
See my cronometer citation of that day here >>34919521.
I think I got my aminos 'lad.
>>34924010
What's the problem, 'laderino, mr "haha veganshill lol he doesnt count lik his pubmed conts like mind does dey ar faulty!!!"
Why would you say that?
>Here's another qt eating yummy vegan food
>>34923973
>I know a farmer with only 10-20 cows and they clear his entire 200aqre farm consistently, so much so that he has to purchase hay to feed them.
Do you live in very dry country? This seems a bit extreme to me. My neighbour have the same amount of cows and have no problems. His tactic is to fence in part of his land and move the cows around so they don't overeat on one patch. This is common practice from what I understand. He also leaves pieces of land to harvest grass for winterfeed, and he has a lot less land than the farmer you know.
>I don't think we are built to eat meat, but rather we have adapted or managed for so long to get through hard times.
I can see your perspective on this, but I have read no research which confirms it. If we have an adaption to eat meat, this would then be a result of evolution, from what I can gather, and this has given us a lot of advantages over the years. The key example from south east asia is that families with no money or access to meat and who have to rely more on rice than the ones that do end up with stunted growth in their children. People of the same ethnic group can have big differences in looks and height based solely on different diets. The advantages of eating meat, for them, is still very necessary. I know the advantages of balanced and readily accessible protein makes it easier for me to live with a rural and active lifestyle, but I guess with an urban lifestyle where all vegan alternatives are available, most meat choices are processed, and where people live more passive lifestyles a vegan diet is easier to manage, so the transition is more reasonable.
>>34924157
Please stop posting pictures of your children. I'm not that guy who insulted you, I just want to point out that most pictures posted on 4chan get abused to an extreme level.
Please stop.
>>34924157
Go away, you mentally deficient piece of shit. You are giving veganism a bad name. You are not welcome here.
>>34924223
Excuse you, rudie, I'm not mentally deficient: I just love babies.
>>34924214
I don't get what's so taboo or bad about postin' cuties occasionally on 4chins, especially innocent life pictures that are semi-relevant. Certainly more relevant than most images on every single board.
>>34924190
I live in Texas, so it can be dry at times, this farmer does that quite often, but it still ends up where he has to purchase a few barrels or purchase a truck of potatoes for them every week or two.
>If we have an adaption to eat meat
Even though we have adapted to to some extent, it's not perfect, nor will it likely be for a very very long time, that's why I say we can but shouldn't.
The reason why SE Asia has smaller people is because of generations of malnutrition or a lack of abundance and variety in diet. If you look at the statistics, that's been improving, despite meat consumption barely moving, as they've came less out of poverty and rely slightly less on just white rice all day.
Honestly though, I'd say it's easier to live in the country and be vegan due to the abundance of farmers close by and the land you most likely have access to. You can easily grow, or purchase fresh foods and cook them at home.
The biggest problem is in rural areas you'd be more secluded from social gathering than in urban centers and generally not get along with others in the community as easily in terms of what is being served.
I, as most vegans I know, am extremely active, biking 100+ km/week and lifting weights, and have no protein or growth problems...
>>34924380
How strong are you? What are your bmi and body fat percentage?
Is your testosterone halved from the vegan diet and excessive cycling?
That's what this depends on.
>>34918192
>>34917505
>>34924380
>denial
You are mentally ill. Please seek psychiatric help.
>>34924380
'qt' and 'cutie' are colloquially used on 4chan in reference, usually with a sexual context, to attractive adults of consenting age
get the fuck out of here with your child bullshit
>there are people on /fit/ right now who only cosume meats and dairy products, don't do some cardio and still wonder why they always feel like shit
Seriously just eat both meat and vegetables and fruits.
I eat meats all the time, but also throughout my day i eat a variety of fruits and vegetables and drink lots and lots of water.
I don't know what's more annoying >muhimavegandonteatmeat or >muhmeateayingancestprsimamanbro
>>34924380
>The reason why SE Asia has smaller people is because of generations of malnutrition or a lack of abundance and variety in diet.
No. Just no. i'm going to ignore the blatant racism here.
My point was that you see wast differences in the same ethnic groups because of diets, so no they are not the result of 'generations of malnutrition.' You also see the same changes in individuals in the same family where one child gets favoured and gets more meat in their diet. The 'lack of abundance and variety in diet' is also wrong as poor people in rural areas often compensates 'meat hunger' with a rich variety of legumes, vegetables and fruits from their own land.
>If you look at the statistics, that's been improving, despite meat consumption barely moving, as they've came less out of poverty and rely slightly less on just white rice all day.
I don't believe these statistics exist. Please state your source because I have not heard of it.
Also, stop posting pics of your children. People are not being 'meanies'. The pics will most likely be abused.
there is literally no need to eat vegetables, they provide nothing useful to the body that can't be found in meat
>>34924460
>'qt' and 'cutie' are colloquially used on 4chan in reference, usually with a sexual context, to attractive adults of consenting age
This. Stop it pedo vegan brothel mama.
>>34919697
also putting marinade on stuff you barbecue stops carcinogens forming
>>34919386
>120g protons in 3900 cals
Ahahahahaha
>>34924582
and if you don't eat carbohydrate then you don't need vitamin C anyway so no worries there
>>34924399
>How strong are you?
As in lifts?
Using http://symmetricstrength.com/ I get all muscles in proficient to advanced, generally advanced.
>What are your bmi and body fat percentage?
BMI is around 25~ and bodyfat around 12-14% bodyfat.
>Is your testosterone halved from the vegan diet and excessive cycling?
I doubt it, I haven't got a measurement quite yet, but nothing has really changed in regards to my "attractions" or desires.
I'd assume it has only went up though due to the extra energy and strength I feel, as well as general vigor, and because some studies show that vegans have higher testosterone than meat/dairy-eaters.
http://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/12/less-cancer-in-vegan-men-despite-more-testosterone/
>>34924424
How am I mentally ill?
'lad, there's nothin' wrong with havin'a'lil babylove.
>>34924460
I haven't really been on 4chan in a couple of years, sorry normies ruined the word cutie/qt on here for you.
Not my fault.
>>34924507
They aren't my children, and as it's about dinner time, I probably won't cite now if at all.
The same ethnic group can grow differently depending on famine in one region versus another. You can see correlation for example in China between rural and urban lifestyles/populaces.
>>34924542
Normie pls, a cutie is adorable, not "sexy."
Get it together and go cuddle some cuties y'all.
>>34924529
wot
>>34924618
>No protein powder
>Low soy
>literally no selecting foods for protein, ate 1k+ calories of potatoes
'lad, I'm not on steroids, that's already an awful lot, even at my activity level.
>>34922629
>made and posted using a machine constructed from and transported with precious materials currently fueling wars that kill hundreds every day.
>>34924674
what do you mean by that?
I'm loving keto. Eggs i get from farmers markets are vitamin and mineral bombs
>>34924681
>They aren't my children
Nice cover. Don't believe you.
>>34924710
the requirements for vitamin C decreases with amount of carbs needed
https://autoimmunethyroid.wordpress.com/2006/09/04/why-meat-prevents-scurvy/
>>34924710
>vitamin and mineral bombs
childish way to describe essentially all food that isn't processed
you're loving keto? you've probably been on it for like 2 weeks? how much caffeine do you drink a day btw?
>>34924713
Believe me about what? That they aren't my kids?
I wish I had my own cuties~
>>34924722
Why would you fucking care, eat an orange once in awhile, they're delicious.
>>34924681
>same ethnic group can grow differently depending on famine in one region versus another.
If this was a factor in my example, I would have mentioned it. Obviously.
>for example in China between rural and urban lifestyles/populaces.
>Do you know how many ethnic groups china has? Do you? You think rural vs urban is the relevant factor, and only factor, you want to use here?
>nothin' wrong with havin'a'lil babylove.
You are one of those who can never admit defeat, aren't you anon.
Whoever those children are, please stop ruin the rest of their life just because you want to be cheeky online.
>>34924751
if you are keto then oranges are a no no
>>34924681
>Avoid meat because mah fluffaeh bunnaeh
>Throw kiddies to the wolves because funnaeh.
Vegan logic.
>>34925075
:D
Finally.
>>34924823
Okay so you get rid of metabolic waste 3 ways
exhalation
shitting
pissing
ketosis
makes you constipated
makes your breath smell worse
makes your pee smell worse
what do you think that fucking tells you bro
it's also shit for your athletic ability
>>34925131
also sweating and ketosis makes you smell bad
>>34924786
As much as I'm hating this vegan pedo fag, china is over 90% Hans, so it's probably pretty accurate to compare rural vs urban Chinese on a physiological level
>>34924786
It is a factor in your example though. Urban citizens in said region do not often move back into the rural regions, as the urban regions have better QoL and thus they grow better and larger, etc.
China is mostly Han, or very close to it, as in over 90% Han.
It's pretty reliable, especially when taking literally any urban city (that has been around for more than a few years) versus literally any rural city and seeing the differences.
>You are one of those who can never admit defeat
Name one thing wrong with a love for babies.
That's right, you can't.
>>34924823
Then don't be keto.
>>34924849
uwotlad?
I don't just not eat meat for that reason, nor am I throwin' kids to the wolves. If you want to masturbate to them, fine, go for it, it really doesn't make a difference to anyone sane.
>>34925273
:^3
>>34919521
If your diet requires supplements, its not a proper diet
>>34925273
Han chinese which cover over 900 mil and therefore have to get subcategorized in anthropology because the 'ethnic genetics' are so diverse? Not the best example to use when trying to describe a generic homogenous ethnic group to point out how similar genetics can strike out very differently dependent on the circumstances.
For the same reason her urban vs rural factor is useless. Even if she specified han chinese the group is too big and too varied. Can add that she didn't. She just used 'China' as an example to describe one big homogenous group, which pissed me off more since she already had some racist slur she didn't bother to defend.
I keked it with the comeback but the pedo fag pissed me off. There is some part of my brain that refuses to believe she is this stupid. I guess it's my weakness.
Next time I have to learn to start ignoring the kek behavior and stop feeding the idiots.
>>34925351
Do you not have anything better to do with your time?
You spend so much time on all your posts and you do realise that your words won't sway anyone's beliefs right? Niggas still gon' be eating meat if they want to
>>34925351
>Name one thing wrong with a love for babies.
Pedophilia.
>>34917474
But anon, meat eaters die at a higher rate than vegetarians and vegans. I don't see how the analogy is inappropriate
I would be a vegetarian or even vegan if the foods didn't taste so good to me. I eat meat because I enjoy it, and no other reason
I don't get why it's such a big deal in the first place. If I didn't like meat, I guess that'd make me a vegetarian but I wouldn't classify myself as one or walk around talking about it. People need labels on everything these days
getting so tired of this vegan bullshit im soon going to find me a cute little vegan grill and choke her to death with a non-organic plastic bag, skin and eat her.
>>34925505
Not that guy, but a big problem with categorizing Han Chinese is that people consider themselves Han Chinese even though they biologically aren't. People want to believe they belonged to the winning team, regardless of whether its true or not.
>>34917482
WHO found that eating large amounts of processed meat everyday increases your chances of getting colorectal cancer from 4.5% to 5.3%, people need to start reading the fucking studies instead of news headlines and stop saying that processed meat is as bad as cigarettes, i know you didnt say that but i keep seeing it everywhere
>>34925449
My diet doesn't (theoretically) require supplements though, especially not more than a meat diet does.
>>34925505
Wow rude.
>>34925512
Oh, I know, I've known that for years.
I usually only go into these threads when I'm lifting weights or waiting for someone or somethin' of such.
That's why it takes so long for me to reply and I go away for an hour or two sometimes. I type at over 100wpm and don't plan anything I type 'lad.
>>34925517
Actually the word you're looking for is nepiophilia, excuse you, but what's wrong with that?
>>34925582
You can eat vegan things and have it taste just as good.
The vast vast majority of meat tastes like shit unless it's cooked over something to season it, or downright seasoned/smothered, and the ones that aren't, such as some fish, is typically an "acquired taste" that many aren't fond of. Me included.
There's a reason everyone is fucking repulsed by plain boiled meat that isn't even in a soup.
It's fucking horrid.
>>34925670
pls don't do that, she didn't do anything to you.
;(
no hurt fluffibunni
>>34925806
Ever think that while smoking increases risk by (X) percent that it only increases that one significantly, while meat increases virtually all marginally, which add up to something bretty bad?
5% increased chance on everything is worse than 1000(0)% in one I believe.
>>34925922
"meat increases virtually all marginally"
where are you reading this? it increases your chances of bowel cancer, not everything
>>34922957
>Leaving a cow in heat in a pen with a bull for several days
>rape
Pick one you colossal faggot.
>>34922906
How do you mean, junk food?
>>34923647
He's right though. There is, in fact, an argument that says so.
>>34917722
Won't help world hunger senpai.
If you really want to help actually start buying all your foods from local places, or at least places that give their employees a living wage.
Stop buying from businesses that run in free market areas in third world countries or those shitty families that own entire halves of countries, which is where most of your vegetables and coffee come from.
>>34918455
>tfw allergic to soy
>tfw not allergic to lactose
>tfw allergic to milk protein
>>34927201
GOAT
O
A
T
MILK
I
L
K
IS
S
GOAT
O
A
T
Seriously anon, give goat milk a try.
>>34925546
oh wow a very select group of individuals are able to not consume meat products because mostly they belong to an upper class and live in 1st class countries compared to the rest of the world where there are countless meat eaters. You are retarded.
>>34927653
Most of India is vegetarian, faggot.
It's actually less expensive to be vegetarian, meat is expensive as fuck. More people in 1st world countries eat more meat than those in other countries.
>>34920175
environment has to deal with morals and is irrelevant. The most beneficial change would to have most humans die, thus landstock will diminish. And almost all forms of pollution would also go down
>>34920187
you have no reason to beleive that is what constitutes a small amount
until there are studies with conclusive evidence, what you are saying is meaningless
>>34921717
smoking is harmful at any level due to inherent ill effects upon mitochondria
protein at small levels doesn't have any ill effect upon mitochondria and in effect, all mitochondria need protein to exist
>>34922759
>how beneficial a plant based diet is
That doesn't matter in itself. Further, no studies have conclusively shown how or why it is healthier, if it is at all. Certainly compared to some things, like anything else, it will be healthier.
The cause could be as simple as the reduction in calories due to relative low macronutrients compared to actual intake value.
>>34927697
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3917888/
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088278&representation=PDF
As for it being healthier, most evidence doesn't actually support this. The rare cases where it does is usually compared against obese Americans who eat 3 hamburgers a day.
If you want to suck the animals' dicks and be vegan, go for it.
>>34927696
False, lots of Indian dishes have goat and sheep in them.
Pro tip if it has beef in it its not Indian
>>34927697
>the environment has to do with morals and is irrelevant
Global warming is a thing that is happening and needs to be considered. It is a scientific fact not a moral
>>34917406
>>34917406
>Protein is easier when you eat meat
>I like the taste
>Vegan shit is expensive
>I like leather
>I'm not rejecting products because they touched an animal or some shit
Vegetarian? Maybe. Vegan? No.
>>34917406
>>34917406
You need to stop posting pictures of your children. Right now. You clearly haven't been on 4chan for an extended period of time before, since you've misinterpreted out phrases, but you keep referring to your kids in a sexual manner, I hope unintentionally. Also, you're on 4chan. This is a bad place to post those pictures. Post em on Facebook or something.
>>34917406
vegan food is shit tho, I'll wait for when you fags have made vegan bacon that costs the same and is also sold everywhere, same goes for burgers pizza and chicken call me when you fix it faggots
>>34927653
>meat eaters are peasants fighting over bones and scraps of flesh and vegans are the kings of the world enjoying beautiful bounties of fresh vegetables
Sounds about right
>>34917406
You're a pussy 80% of cancer is cause by oxygen radicalization of base pairs in the DNA if you want to go vegan go vegan but don't pin cancer on it everything fucking causes cancer. Sugar causes pancreatic cancer which is arguably one of the worst cancers. Not as bad as the cancer I got from this fucking post though. Fuck.
>>34927777
Both of your links are to basically the same thing so I'll explain to you what you're posting. It's a cross-sectional study of people in Austria, meaning they took a survey and recorded associations between different diet groups at one point in time. They didn't follow people over a period of years to see the effect that diet would have on them and they didn't take into account how long any individual person had been following their assumed diet.
The authors of the study point out it's likely that the vegetarians in their study self-reported poorer health more frequently because vegetarian diets are associated with better health and people who are in bad health might adopt a vegetarian diet to improve their health
>Our results have shown that vegetarians report chronic conditions and poorer subjective health more frequently. This might indicate that the vegetarians in our study consume this form of diet as a consequence of their disorders, since a vegetarian diet is often recommended as a method to manage weight [10] and health [46].
>no statements can be made whether the poorer health in vegetarians in our study is caused by their dietary habit or if they consume this form of diet due to their poorer health status.
>further longitudinal studies will be required to
substantiate our results
Longitudinal studies look at peoples' health over a number of years to see how diet affects them in the long run. Longitudinal studies have been done, and they routinely show vegetarian and vegan diets to associate with better health in several ways
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/
The above is a summary of longitudinal studies done in the Seventh Day Adventist community of Loma Linda, California, a "blue zone" where most people practice health-conscious behavior and the life expectancy is higher than the rest of the US, so it's not a comparison against obese mcdonalds eaters. Vege/vegans showing better health is the norm among diet studies.
>>34928406
Also, the authors of the Austrian survey also published another study that used a larger sample of the same population, and it had the opposite results
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24343044
>Our results show that a vegetarian diet is associated with a better health-related behavior, a lower BMI, and a higher SES. Subjects eating a carnivorous diet less rich in meat self-report poorer health, a higher number of chronic conditions, an enhanced vascular risk, as well as lower quality of life.
I see the smaller study posted all the time but nobody posts the larger one. Neither are very good for studying the effects of diet though.
>>34927900
True most Indians are meat eaters. The rest don't care. It's literally only 1st world countries that argue bullshit back and forth that can't be won because it's subjective.
>>34927909
Ponder this though. Humans can't process most parts of a plant. There's a lot of infertile land in the world where nutrition dense plants don't grow. What do you do? Have cattle and pigs graze on the grass which is useless to humans allows us to make food easily from useless plants even including the 90% loss in energy from plant to animal. We can't plant things everywhere and we still need food to sustain. Animals serve their purpose in those areas. Even so I don't want to argue your point because it's so complex that it's pointless.
>>34928497
Not the guy you're responding to but that has nothing to do with global warming
>>34928510
Yes it does. Land efficiency is a large problem with global warming. Where to plant and where not to. The Amazon rainforest should be protected because it is efficient at producing oxygen and consuming carbon dioxide. But it isn't. Texas should be grazed by cattle because that produces the most food efficiency. But vegans who live in cities don't understand agriculture and how plant crops there instead would be a severe mistake. This is the problem though. There are too many variables to blame it on meat eaters. Cars? Yes they contribute directly. Power plants? Of course. Meat eaters? Too much evidence that is pointing both ways.
>>34928557
>The Amazon rainforest should be protected because it is efficient at producing oxygen and consuming carbon dioxide
I agree, let's stop chopping it down to raise meat
>Texas should be grazed by cattle because that produces the most food efficiency
For one, no. To make efficient food for humans, you grow grains and starches. There's far more than enough usable land to grow enough food to feed people on these staple foods, and many can be grown in even the shittiest soil, and can be easily stored for months to years. Secondly, raising 10 billion animals is itself a major problem in global warming. Having millions of cows huddled around eating grass and farting out methane is a problem. Even if you think you're being efficient by feeding inedible plant parts to cows and pigs (not that we couldn't use them in other ways, like compost and textiles), just having those animals around is an issue. They aren't a solution, they're another problem.
I remember back in town, whenever someone brought an animal, it was an event, whether it was sheep, pigs, chickens or fish my old man and me cought, word spread quickly and the whole family gathered for dinner.
It's fun to see my vegan friends react when they find out I've eaten animals I've killed.
>>34917406
>meat consumption and cancer
let me correct you
processed meat and overcooked meat
>>34920813
Same here senpai, irganic grass fed master race.
>>34928736
australia eats nothing but grassfed meat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Australia
keep deluding yourself
>>34928648
>hurr durr grain and starches have the same nutritional value as meat!
You are a retard.
>>34917460
This. Your dietary choices are none of my business.
>>34917406
the lifetime risk of colorectal cancer is 5% (http://www.cancer.org/cancer/colonandrectumcancer/detailedguide/colorectal-cancer-key-statistics), eating 50 grams of processed red meat everyday increases it by 18%, after some simple math comes out that your new lifetime risk is 5+(5*18/100)=5,9%.
Now let's look at the others risk factors which can lead to colorectal cancer: Physical inactivity, obesity, smoking, heavy alcohol abuse, age, family history, inherited syndromes etc.
Keep in mind that meat eaters statistically drink and smoke more than vegans/vegetarians and they also have an higher BMI, meaning that the observational studies used by the WHO might be flawed.
>>34919386
Oh god the pedophile vegan returns to meme once more. Have fun with the diabeetus.
>>34931010
>meaning that the observational studies used by the WHO might be flawed.
I'm glad you're actually trying to talk logic to vegans, but it's sad that you need to say something as obvious as this. That's the problem with nutritional "science"; it all has shit methodology yet it's treated like fucking gospel when it agrees with someone's meme diet.
I've tried it before but skipping meat gives me an insatiable appetite (get bloated before I feel full) and I get super fatigued and depressed.
The animals can die
>>34917406
Consuming meat resulted in humans having the intelligence they have today. Unfortunately, it often manifests itself as pretentiousness, and boom, you have vegans.
>>34917406
>eating meat is bad so let's go vegan
Why not vegetarian? Why cut out ALL animal products?
>>34931588
>Consuming meat resulted in humans having the intelligence they have today.
So why do vegans shill so hard? Do they really think we care what they think, or do they just do it to be annoying?
My history teacher was going on today about how everyone needs to cut back on their beef consumption because of how production emits way too much CO2 into the atmosphere.
I almost went full autismo on him but I held back.
>>34931010
>Keep in mind that meat eaters statistically drink and smoke more than vegans/vegetarians and they also have an higher BMI, meaning that the observational studies used by the WHO might be flawed.
Observational studies match people by age, smoking status, physical activity, BMI. They don't just gather and display data as-is.
>>34932069
>Observational studies match people by age, smoking status, physical activity, BMI. They don't just gather and display data as-is.
The decent ones yeah, but most lack even basic controls and simply match based off of meat or no meat. Even when they do have basic methodology down, observational studies are shit at best by their very nature.
>>34932097
>most lack even basic controls and simply match based off of meat or no meat
Can you give me some examples of studies that do this?
>>34920813
As opposed to synthetic meat? I think you mean organic, my friend.
I'm not a proponent of veganism- I eat meat, dairy etc, occasionally buy leather belts and shows- but how much of the environmental impact have all of you really examined?
I feel like the only thing people on this board are capable of thinking about is gains.
What are gains worth if our progeny aren't able to sustain the fit lifestyle due to our negligence?
The meat and dairy industry are tremendously wasteful due to how energy is lost in increasing trophic levels. A lot of pollutnt waste is produced by livestock- cows belch N2O constantly, which is a gas that is 200x as effective a greenhouse gas as CO2. Livestock, particularly hogs, produce shitloads of low quality shit, which heads downstream and contaminates ponds, rivers, lakes, causing algal blooms which steal nutrients from fish and other organisms, destroying the ecosystem.
These are just a few things.
>>34930915
well root starches have far more nutrition grains don't though
>>34931010
>>34931328
you do know the WHO examined hundreds of papers involving mechanistic data
you didn't even read the report did you?
>>34931668
lol
>>34932105
Can you post your body, vegan fag?
>>34932143
That's just an argument against industrial meat packing, as is most of the arguments ever fielded against meat. Most people agree that it's shit which is why so many people are moving back to grazed livestock.
>>34932204
I'm just asking for an example of a study that doesn't account for anything but meat vs no meat. I've never seen a study that worked like this but you're saying that most do this.
>>34932199
>root starches have far more nutrition grains don't though
Grains are pretty nutritious too. I don't know why people on this board are so hostile to them. Lots of fiber, good for B-vitamins and minerals, low in saturated fat and cholesterol. Many legumes are also very nutritious, and growing legumes compliments the growing of grains since they're nitrogen fixers that pull nitrogen from the air and replenish the soil.
