Reminder that this is the natty limit.
>>34912318
For maybe 1% of lifters, yeah. For the other 99% it's more like pic related (age 29 in the photo).
>>34912318
lets fucking hope so. Since this is an old timey thread here's a picture of karl gotch, I want his skills
>>34912367
he looks like he roids but something went wrong
>>34912640
Bad genetics.
>>34912680
Natty + BB routine, probably with lots of machines and cable-shit.
>>34912318
Totally okay with this, to be honest. Obviously did mostly heavy compounds.
people back then were starving
and I doubt he lifted heavy because there wasn't even good equipment available
>>34912739
>le primitive man meme
>>34912680
Yes. Actually, that's precisely my point. Most people don't have the potential to look anything like the supposed natty limit of OP if they stay natty. They can look better than they do, bigger than any random asshole on the street, but not as big as OP's pic.
>>34912789
Hackenshmidt is the limit for all natties, no natty can surpass him. Not every refugee will make it to the border, but that doesn't mean it isn't the limit.
>>34912789
>There is nothing between the two
Some people have bad genes for aesthetics, some people have good ones. Most people have average genes for aesthetics and will look like something between these two if they lift, obviously. Pic related.
>>34912838
Agreed.
>>34912952
>Most people have average genes for aesthetics and will look like something between these two if they lift
I disagree because I think >>34912367 is average as far as aesthetic genetic potential is concerned. And by average, I mean a realistic representation of the center of the bell curve.
Is this the thread where we post people who look bad because of their genetics and say it's the natty limit??
>>34913032
Everyone I went to high school with who did any kind of sports had better aesthetics than that guy (aside from the linemen on my football team). Everybody at your gym looks better than that guy. Roids aren't THAT prevalent.
>>34913052
No, it's the troll thread.
Also OP I know natty 16 year olds that are bigger than that
>>34912739
This.
None of the old greats were the true natty limit because they had worse nutrition and exercise knowledge. And considering fewer people lifted then, they're probably not even genetic freaks either.
Plus, most of them didn't even lift for size.
>>34913577
You for sure do not know any 16 year old bigger than hackenschmidt you fucking retard.
>>34912367
haha you really think this is the natty limit? Christ almighty
new lifter here, how can you even tell if someone roids just by looking at them? despite the obvious colossal guys smattered with veins
>>34914096
>how can you even tell if someone roids just by looking at them
You can't
>this guy from the 1930s is the natural limit
>even though back then they didnt have the convenience of supplements
>even though they didnt understand the importance of tracking calories
>even though they had shitty outdated routines and only had access to dumbbells and barbells
ok buddy
>>34914140
so the roid debates on /fit/ are just one big meme
I should have known
>>34914141
Sorry anon but back then they had much higher test levels. Today's natural lifter even with perfect diet and routine won't reach that
>>34914147
Word of advice: /fit/ will give you body dysmorphia if you aren't careful
>>34914141
>supplements
>"only" had access to dumbbell/barbell
Oh I am laffin
>>34914181
I already have it, I've lost a shitload of weight and I still feel fat
although to be fair I still have some fat. I can't even tell if I'm confident anymore or not
>>34914141
>thinking they achieved that body in merely 1-2 years
>>34914214
notice how he has zero calves?
would really have benefited from a calf raise machine
maybe his pecs wouldnt be so embarrassingly underdeveloped if he had access to a fly machine?
>>34914234
those lats though
I would give my left dick and my third testicle to look like that.
>>34914096
It's so fucking easy after a while. There's a juicy look that really stands out. This look is characterized by incredible fullness at a very low body fat percentage. A natural athlete who diets and trains down to single digit body fat will lose considerable muscle fullness and will have a very "flat" look.
When someone at single digit bodyfat still has a bulging, 3d look, it's a red flag. When someone looks too good to be true, almost like they've been composed in photoshop, it's either actually been shooped or it's steroids.
Lazar Angelov is one perfect example of this 3d photoshop look. Pic related. Compare this look to someone a similar bodyfat % at a similar weight like >>34912367
This video kinda breaks it down as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRsoq-C273A
There are a couple of blogs like Iron Gangsta and NattyorNot that are dedicated to this subject as well. They're very poorly written and researched but they generally get things right.
>>34913577
Only if you live near a fucking radiation leak. There are big kids around, but they will never be as big as a guy who was famous for how fucking big he was. You are one of those people who make rediculous claims about how strong you used to be. I work with a guy who said he used to be huge, when i asked him how much he weighed he said 160. You know nothing about lifting.
>>34914306
Thank you for an informative answer. So who actually is a good natty lifter to look up to? Who is legitimately natty
please tell me scooby is natty
>>34914147
No it's pretty easy to tell most roiders
>big
>lean
>natural
Pick two
>>34914331
I see you've never known a crazy freak negro that started taking roids very early in life. I don't blame you.
>>34914234
>grab barbell
>do calf raises
You do realize that having a big chest didn't become a fad until long after this, right? Look at pictures of Eugen Sandow, etc.
Besides that, you don't need a fucking fly machine to get chest. Please tell me you are trolling. Have you ever ears of the bench press or dumbbell flys? You know, the exercise that the machine tries to fucking mimic?
>>34914334
Of course he is natty. He has been lifting most of his life probably. So you can definitely look like that if you lift for 30 years and a perfect diet and routine, or you can look even better in 3 with roids and a half assed effort.
>>34914360
Haha haha no
>>34914334
Scooby takes test 100% no doubt
Way too big, too lean, and too old to not be on something
>>34914346
We are talking about natties. Of course i am aware that people on roids can get bigger. Also, niggers dont count. Their genetics are so good for it that buffed out black guys are like a tired old meme. They are fucking everywhere, and they all wear wife beaters.
>>34914360
>>34914369
this is the problem I get whenever I ask a question about anything
god dammit
>>34914379
The problem is that people who do roids when they are young will always be bigger than someone who doesnt, even if they havent done them in years. He might have been natty for the last 20 years, but did roids before that. It is just not possible to really know. Why dont you be the one to prove it by staying natty and getting huge.
>>34914398
cause I don't want to be huge in particular... i used to be really fat so I'm just shooting for lean
>>34914334
>So who actually is a good natty lifter to look up to? Who is legitimately natty
Eh, I'm on the fence about Paul-Jean Guillaume (guy at 2:28 in this video; cool guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nau1iOwfGQ4). I used to think he might actually be natty but the more I study his body in contest condition, the more I think it's suspect. But even if he is truly natty, I wouldn't say he's necessarily a realistic role model because he's such a genetic freak either way.
Erik Helms is probably a good example of what an average Joe can achieve with 10 years of hard work as a natty trainer. This video also kind of explains how you can use FFMI to spot a natty vs. a fake natty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFU_NnIJXHk
>please tell me scooby is natty
No, he's not been natty since around 2001. But it depends on your definition of natty. You could call him "half natty" since he's taking TRT with a prescription from a doctor. Also, he did train naturally for like 20 years, to his credit. Pic related.
>>34914411
i mean i guess it's okay that scooby isn't full natty, if someone wants to enhance themselves a bit to get the body they want i can't blame them. i just hate when people fucking lie about it
>>34914375
Oh fuck off. Blacks are smaller on average than whites. Maybe it's because whites are taller than blacks, darker skin shows muscle better, steroids are more prevalent among blacks, or a combination of those. Blacks still fail in strength sports, too.
>>34914411
If it is by perscription then he is only on about 500mg. That is right in the average level. Though he is technically taking test, he is still working just as hard for it as anyone else. What you have to watch out for are the guys who are taking 1 gram or more, as they still gain like a teenager at the age of 50. Just look at vince mcmahon, he is fucking jacked and he is in his 70s.
>>34914411
he was always a butterface
>>34914476
500mg is by no means the 'average' level, prescription or otherwise.
>>34914467
Pretty much this. It's mainly a thing where niggers have better bone structures and muscle bellies for bodybuilding and thus have a tendency to LOOK swole while being nowhere as strong as their northern European master race counterparts who dominate strongman competitions.
>>34914478
but he was always smiling
>>34914355
you're literally retarded
who has a better physique, the guy trying to do calf raises with a barbell and has to get 100% of his protein from chicken and fish and eggs, or a guy who has the convenience of machines and whey protein?
try getting shredded without the convenience of whey
or building the best back possible without using machine rows or lat pull downs
stop being so fucking ignorant
if you believe some moron in 1930 has maxed out his potential then you are literally retarded
>>34914467
Because stregth sports arent a big part of their culture. Its all about basketball and football. They also suck at baseball because they were never pushedto play it. Why the fuck do you think they made great slaves, because they got big fast. Also, as a guy who has been there myself, most africans are tall as fuck, but stick thin. It is only the americanized ones who can eat like pigs that get huge. But they are in no way smaller than whites.
>>34914411
that 96 smug scoobs
gets me every fucking time
>>34914485
Then what is doctor faggot. I work with a dude who has the same perscription. He has experience with roid users on a personal level, and he says that the 500 mg he is perscribed is simply not enough to get huge.
>>34914515
>>34912318
I think you can go a bit beyond that if you'd want more strength and don't mind a higher bodyfat.
>>34914527
Normal TRT prescriptions range from 40 to 125, depending on a few factors. 500 is the sort of dosage you get out of 'TRT' labs that exist to provide doping prescriptions for sports that allow that exemption.
If he thinks you can't get huge on 500/wk test, he's either a retard or training like one.
>>34914506
You cant open and close your report with the same thesis, it is sloppy.
>>34914513
They're shorter on average, I'm using actual data, not your anecdotal evidence. The tallest people in the world are the Dutch.
Is that why whites don't dominate gridiron and basketball in the US? Culture?
>>34914527
350mg-500mg is like what most first roiding cycles to get bigger are.
>>34914547
Well, i wont lie, he is kinda stupid. Point taken.
>>34914306
Sources?
>>34914513
They are smaller and weaker than whites. This is a simple fact.
>>34914555
Pretty sure most of the teams are black. I am just saying that sports are pretty big in a lot of african american areas, mostly basketball, but also football. They seem to prefer the more close up, dominate your opponent sports. On the other hand, whites tend to go for the sports like baseball, and powerlifting, where they never really have to come into contact with the other players. I am aware that their are always exceptions.
>>34914589
Sports are always dominated by poorer people. Just like how slavs, Irishmen, Italians, and Jews used to dominate sports in the US.
>>34914513
Some african ethnic groups are tall (the masai, afro-semites from the horn of africa), but they all have less lean muscle mass, less upper body mass in particular and are generally shorter than northern europeans.
>>34914608
But that skeletal structure can give them an advantage of they add steroids to make up for the lack of muscle. On the other hand, you cant do shit about having shitty bones.
>>34914733
They'd still perform way worse than northern europeans which are generally both wide and tall, especially western scandinavians and baltics.
>>34914604
Exactly my point. It is cultural. It is the easiest way to get rich when you have no education. In a sport where coaches exist all you have to do is show up for practice and they will make all of your decisions for you, then when you play it is always simple orders, hit that guy, put the ball in the hole. Strongmen, however, require willpower and thought to make it to the top. And not all of them have coaches.
