Routine thread
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I have been doing PHAT for a long time and I am sick of it.
I wanna change to something new, except bro splits because they are meme.
Are PPL-s good? What's the best PPL out there? I heard a lot of people having lagging arms?
Please help bros.
Doesn't matter desu. Just do compounds and some isolations and eat. Actually, just eat.
>>35371670
Is this routine decent?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833
Since I have done PHAT, I got used to the "strength" and "pump" days. Could I change to: PPL(compounds on 5 reps) rest PPL(compounds 8-10 reps) isolations always same.
Lower:
Squat 3-4x6-8
RDL 3-4x6-8
Leg Press 2-3x10-12
Leg Curl 2-3x10-12
Standing Calf Raise 3-4x6-8
Seated Calf Raise 2-3x10-12
Abs/Lower Back: Whatever
Upper:
Flat Bench 3-4x6-8
Row 3-4x6-8
Incline Bench/Shoulder Press 2-3x10-12
Pulldown/Chinup/Pullup 2-3x10-12
Biceps 2-3x10-12 or 1-2x12-15
Triceps: Same as biceps
first 2 weeks go submaximal
after than go for another 4 to 6 weeks adding weight to the bar
after 4 to 6 weeks go submaximal again and run up to previous bests
can do 3 times a week alternating upper and lower or 4x a week (Monday-Tuesday, Thursday-Fridat) or whatever. just be reasonable in the frequency.
GOAT hypertrophy routine. simple and effective
>>35371720
This is Lyle McDonald's intermediate routine isn't it?
I remember getting solid gainz out of it
>>35371720
where is deadlift?
>>35371739
yes, it can be a bit more "perfected" with some other stuff. that is his "crudest" version of it barring his other reccomendations (e.g. some people have shit triceps endurance so instead of incline bench/shoulder press, incline flyes/Lateral raises are a better choice)
>>35371744
>implying Romanian Deadlifts aren't a type of deadlift
>implying deadlifts are a good excercise for bodybuilding
do this if you really want to deadlift
Lower:
Deadlift 3-4x6-8 (or 5x5, can do bill star's classic ramped sets 5x5 where you work up to 1 max set, or sets across, it's very individual)
Leg Press/Split Squat/Front Squat 3-4x6-8 Those are put in order of feasibility, if you have a weak back don't even consider front squats
Leg Ext. 2-3x10-12
Leg Curl 2-3x10-12
Those last 2 are a bit iffy, I forgot with one, but I think it was leg curl that lyle said you may not really need since the hamstrings are already wrecked from deadlifts and leg press (although it might have been the quads/leg ext)
If you do this it's also reccomended to do 1 arm DB rows or chest supported rows as to not overtrain the lower back. And even alternate lower body workouts with non DL workouts (so you only do conventional deadlifts once a week) and the 2nd one you just squat (maybe even front squat or fuck, leg press). it's all really individual though.
Deadlifts make programming a lot more complex than it needs to be, and if you don't care about picking up heavy weight off the floor, they're not neccesary in the slightest.
also, another thing about the program, if squatting low bar or even high bar ATG, then doing the RDLs/leg curl for 3-4 sets isn't neccesary, you can get away with doing half the volume. Deep squats already work the glutes/hamstrings a lot, same with low bar squats (low bar squats aren't too great for bodybuilding IMO too, since they're a lottt of glute/hamstring)
My routine for the next 6 months starting January. Can anyone spot any problems?
>>35371829
I can spot many gains.
Swap the horizontal pull and the lat pulldown tho, so you balance things out.
Started this version of SS. Was in doubt between this and greyskull lp, but I like this one better.
Can weighted chin ups replace seated rows?
My push to pull ratio is skewed because I was fucking up too many time on stupid machines. I fucking hate lat pulldown, can't progress on that shit, plus its easy to cheat.
Would this pull day look okay:
BB row 3x5
Pull ups 3x8-10
Chin ups 3x8-10
Face pulls 3x12
Ez bar curls 3x12
Hammer curls 3x12
Keep in mind I do deadlifts but not on pull day.
>>35371633
moar
>>35371900
>Can weighted chin ups replace seated rows?
Yes
>>35371829
You're not deadlifting enough to be honest. Unless you don't mind having a weaker deadlift.
>>35371907
>>35371912
Will they help with back strength?
Bench 3x5 80 kg
Bent over Row 3x5 70 kg (barely)
>>35371921
Once a week isn't enough? I've always been told really heavy deadlifts more than once a week is a one-way ticket to snap-city.
>>35371829
Yes
Don't squat or deadlift after doing benching, rows, presses, chins, etc
Your lower and upper back act as stabilizers on squats/deadlifts and are going to be fatigued from doing those upper body excercises first.
Worst case scenario, you snap your shit up. Best case scenario, you limit yourself slightly on squats and Deadlifts. Squat/DL first, or at least not after doing upper body pulls.
I don't see anything crazy wrong with the program, if you make progress it's good.
As another person said, switch the lat pulldown with rows or something, because that's kinda imbalanced. Kinda, it really depends on how you're doing dips (I'm assuming the pulldown is with intent to balance out dips?). Otherwise it's actually pretty well balanced. Which I find a lot of beginner (and even intermediate routines) lack... Way too much benching/pressing, not enough pulling, or at least not in the right ratios (e.g. tons of bench press and nothing but chinups/pullups, no kind of row to be seen..), and sometimes tons of work for the quads but nothing for the hamstrings, sometimes at least not balanced enough. E. g. something like Squat, Leg Press, Leg Ext. or some shit, way too much quad. Squat, Leg Curl, Leg Ext is still even imbalanced. Squats are quad dominant usually.)
>>35371974
Thanks for the advice bro. I put squats/deads last because it was built around Greyskull LP, and that suggests that doing a heavy squat/dead first can interfere with your other upper body compounds, but the other way round isn't as likely.
I think I'll weigh in other peoples opinions before I go changing it, but I'll keep what you said in mind.
As for the pulldowns/seated rows, I'm going to switch them around as >>35371863 suggested. Cheers to both of you.
>>35371962
It's enough if you're not eating and don't mind progressing slower on the DL.
But you can definitely do heavy DLs at least twice per week as a novice.
>>35371974
>Don't squat or deadlift after doing benching, rows, presses, chins, etc
Pure broscience, don't listen to that. Everyone does upperbody before lowerbody since lowerbody movements are too tiring and can affect the upperbody you do later.
>>35371934
Yes, chinups are back exercises. Better than rows in my opinion, at least for the lats.
>>35372066
Yes, it's a tradeoff. But I think you'd be better off doing lower body first. And I never really said you couldn't bench first (or even OHP, it's not That lower back intensive). But rows and pull downs, not a good idea.
that's the issue with fullbody routines, lower body tires you before upper body (but just drink a coffee PWO and man up) and upper body can affect your spinal stabilizers on lower body moves (which I think is worse and more to worry about)
And BTW, kinesiology isn't a bro science. kek
Also, rows are not chins. You really should do rows to balance out benching. Or something, so mid back work. E.g. Kelso shrugs/rows (which are just isolated scapula retraction). Also, rear delt flyes. Which is just imitating a row with isolation moves... So why not just do a fucking row and work all the same muscles with only 1 excercise.
fuck /fit/ is stupid
Can I substitute pendlay and other rows with seated cable rows? Have a bad back, so have to be extremely careful with these things, you know.
>>35372153
Best way to replace them is doing chest supported rows
>>35372153
yes
they're better anyway IMO
>>35372222
and what this guy said, One arm DB rows are good too but can put an uneven twisting stress on your spine, especially if cheating. I'd do chest supported IF you can, if not do the cable.
>>35372222
>>35372258
Thanks fellas. I have another question. I can workout only 4 days in a row in any given week because of my work. I have four 12-hour day shifts, then four day weekend, then four 12 hour graveyard shifts. Trappy-chan wrote out a program for me which works out just fine, but I feel it’s a bit light on the volume, even though i took a 2-months break from lifting. Main lifts are 3x5 with 3x8-12 rest. Usually 5 lifts at a workout. What’s your opinion on the volume for this one? Should it be more, or is it just fine?
>>35372420
Lower:
Squat 3-4x6-8
RDL 3-4x6-8
Leg Press 2-3x10-12
Leg Curl 2-3x10-12
Standing Calf 3-4x6-8
Seated Calf 2-3x10-12
Abs/Low back: Whatever
Upper:
Bench Press 3-4x6-8
Row 3-4x6-8
Incline Bench (or OHP) 2-3x10-12
Pulldown 2-3x10-12
Lateral Raise (or Incline Flyes) 3-4x8-10
Rear Delt Flyes 3-4x8-10
Biceps/Triceps 1-2x12-15
LULUxx
do it, good hypertrophy routine. you may want to reduce the volume (do lower end of set range or even lower than the minimum) on the other 2 lower and upper days, depends on your recovery though.
trappy chan is an idiot
>he thinks the hamstrings are a knee extensor
KEK
>>35372420
That's pretty much the perfect volume for novice or rank intermediate lifters.
Day C and D have lots of volume.
I honestly think that routine is pretty much perfect. Wouldn't change anything. But if you feel like you want more volume on A and B, then feel free to add more stuff. It's not like it's gonna kill you or anything.
But recovery while training 4 consecutive days can be an issue. So I wouldn't go too hard on the volume.
>>35372492
Nice shopping list of exercises.
Too bad it has no progression and the volume is retarded.
A novice could come up with a better routine.
>>35372420
That routine is pretty much adapted Texas Method. TM is universally acclaimed for being a great program.
Don't mess with it unless you know what you're doing.
>>35372492
That's the shittiest routine I've seen in this threads in a long while.
>>35372529
>lyle mcdonald generic bulking routine
>many have made amazing GAINZ on it
>guy who wrote it has a degree in kinesiology and has been passionate about weight training for years
kek
progression once the end of the rep range is reached is implied you imbecile
and there is a deload every 4 to 6 weeks
>>35372556
Let me see...
>retarded shopping list of exercises made by roider for roiders
>texas method
Tough choice.
>progression once the end of the rep range is reached
That's the slowest and stupidest way of progressing.
>>35372420
Don't fall for the "you need to do 25 sets per day" meme.
>>35372573
>Texas method
>well known for it being a grueling routine that injures people and many can't recover from
>it's a strength routine which has no focus on hypertrophy
>Lyle McDonald's GBR
>it's called the generic bulking routine, not the generic strength routine
>lyle mcdonald has never done steroids,but wanted to
>he's not even a big guy
>he lifts but actually strived to be an endurance athlete
wow sorry for disagreeing with you actually I guess a total of ~60 reps for each muscle group is just INSANE
you will die
I guess you're better off doing 5x5 and heavy triples and singles, even though low reps present the highest chance of injury and the guy doesn't even care about getting strong, just having bigger muscles.
>>35372497
>>35372529
>>35372597
Thanks, fellas, i'll stay with this routine then. It feels kinda right too, i just wanted to get a second opinion.
It's good to be lifting again.
>>35372573
>>35372609
e g. bill starr's routine
>has football players do 5x5 ramped sets (of only which the top ~3 sets are heavy enough for actual gains, so really only 15 total reps)
>has them follow it up with beach work for the same muscle for like 5 sets of 10 or something
>65 reps total
>they made sickening gains in strength and size
BUT I GUESS IT WAS TOO MUCH VOLUME AND THEY WERE ALL ON ROIDS HUH?
>>35372597
>Don't fall for the "you need to do 25 sets per day" meme.
THIS
i was mainlining this meme 24/7 for over a year
just moved to a full body x3 per week, doing 3-4 sets per bodypart and am amazed by how fatigued my muscles are by the end of it. only recently started, but seem to be getting solid growth, though some of it will just be muscle memory gainz
>>35372609
>it's a strength routine which has no focus on hypertrophy
>He thinks strength and hypertrophy are that different
>He thinks you can't train both at the same time
>>35372609
>even though low reps present the highest chance of injury
If you're doing maximal effort sets, yes because the weight is higher. But no good routine will have you maxing out often.
>>35372643
>chasing the pump
idiot
>>35372645
is starting strength not a good routine cuz it has you maxing out every workout?
and yes, they can be trained at the same time. yes, they are closely intertwined. but they're also not the same either. and these sorts of routines ARE designed differently.
not gonna argue with you anymore. /fit/ is stupid.
have fun thinking you'll be as big as Ronnie Coleman doing 3x5
>>35372670
SS doesn't having you maxing out every workout
Hitting 3x5 PRs each workout yes, but not maxing. There is relatively little danger of doing one set of five at 90% 1RM once a week nigger
The 5x5 sets are like 75% of 1RM if that
>>35371633
source on chick?
>>35371934
>>35371633
Who is she familia?
Here is the PPL routine that I started doing a few weeks ago, any critiques?
Push
Bench Press: 5x5
OHP: 5x5
Incline Dumbell Press: 3x10
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10
Dips: 3x8-10
Tricep Pushdowns: 3x10
SkullCrushers: 3x10
Pull
Deadlift: 5x5
Bent over Rows: 5x5
Seated Rows: 3x10
Face-pulls: 3x-10
Shurgs: 3x10
Chin up 3x8 1xf
Straight bar curls: 4x12
Hammer Curls: 4x12
Cable Crunches: 3x15
Legs:
Highbar Squats: 5x5
Leg Press: 3x10
Weighted lunges: 3x10
Cable Kickback: 3x10
Leg Extensions: 3x10
Hamstring Curls : 3x10
Standing Calf Raises: 5x10
Seated Calf Raises: 3x10
Hanging Leg Raises: 3xF (It has leg in the name so it works, plus its completely optional)
>>35373773
Performing 5 RM is maxing out nigga.
Wtf are you talking about you delusioned piece of shit
>>35371633
>>35372420
whats the progression like on this routine?
Here's my PPL routine. Bench, Squat, OHP and Deadlift are all 5/3/1 style. Occasionally I'll drop other compound lifts to the 1-6 rep range but try to keep everything else >8 reps.
What do you guys think?
>>35371633
C6W is pretty fun and well rounded.
Add more bench days tho
>>35371744
literally why cover your nips at that point
>>35374384
Is this a meme
this routine allows for linear progression, and the 1x5+ (one set of as many reps as possible) allows u to make rep PRs even when you deload. Allows for a mix of aesthetics and strength
PULL
Deadlifts 1x5+/Barbell rows 4x5, 1x5+ (alternate, so if you did deadlifts on Monday, you would do rows on Thursday, and so on)
3x8-12 Pulldowns OR Pullups OR chinups
3x8-12 seated cable rows OR chest supported rows
5x15-20 face pulls
4x8-12 hammer curls
4x8-12 dumbbell curls
PUSH
4x5, 1x5+ bench press/4x5, 1x5+ overhead press (alternate in the same fashion as the rows and deadlifts)
3x8-12 overhead press/3x8-12 bench press (do the opposite movement: if you bench pressed first, overhead press here)
3x8-12 incline dumbbell press
3x8-12 triceps pushdowns SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
3x8-12 overhead triceps extensions SS 3x15-20 lateral raises
LEGS
2x5, 1x5+ squat
3x8-12 Romanian Deadlift
3x8-12 leg press
3x8-12 leg curls
5x8-12 calf raises
MON-(morning)Kickboxing and yoga (afternoon) Pullups, vsit to planche to handstand to Russian dip on parallel bars. Dips. Sometimes do dips and pullups with weight vest. Sprints
TUES(morning) wrestling and bjj (afternoon) Core- supermans, v sits, Manny Pacquiao ab routine, windshield wipers for obliques, human flag holds for obliques, run stairs 38 flights 2x
WED- Major Boxing training- Heavybag, double end bags, target mitts, light sparring, jumprope. Neck training(bridge-raises). Rest for evening with stretches, maybe swimming
THURS- Forearms and triceps(various calisthenics and weights) rest and then major training for kicks(drills, slow kicks, speed, technique)
FRIDAY (Morning) Advanced pullups- One armed pullups, finger tip pullups, muscle ups, explosive pullups, vsits, supermans. (Night) Wrestling/BJJ) mostly work on movement drills and rolling
SATURDAY (Morning) Run stairs, hand stand pushups, human flag(obliques),
(Night) Kung fu(Bagua), train punches
SUNDAY(LEGS) with weight vest- one legged squats, jumping lunges, jumping squats, lunges and squats with dumbells, calf raises, jumping exercises. Swimming and mma type shadow boxing for 15 rds. (Night) Yoga and chi gung.
That's my general workout. I fit in other stuff when I can when my friends can train so we do grappling, sparring, drills, when we can get together. I also have random workouts that I do to focus more on my weaknesses that I will do throughout the weak when I can.
>>35375036
Forgot to add pushups. I do pushups 3x a week and vary them. One day will be more explosive pushups. One day will be all finger tip pushups. Last one will be all one arm pushups and very the one arm finger tip pushups(3 finger, 5 finger, 2 finger, tiger claw)
I also created a push up that in my opinion is one of the hardest pushup. Its tiger claw pushups but diamond style, and also hindu bomber style aka Judo pushups, its all 3 combined. I really would like you guys to try it out. If you've never done a tiger claw push up then you should look it up. Its basically finger tip pushups but instead of straight fingers they are bent like tiger claws so all the weight is on just the tips of your fingers. Combine that with diamond style pushups and its insanely difficult, but add in hindu pushups on top and its ridiculous. Please try it.
