Any of you guys deadlift in weightlifting shoes with a raised heel? I bought these shoes so I could squat ATG, and for that purpose they are great.
But today I tried wearing them on the deadlift, which I suppose makes it essentially a deficit deadlift. My regular deadlift in chucks is 3 plates, but with the weightlifting shoes on I noticed that the pull on my hamstrings was so intense with just 2 plates that I didn't want to add more weight. Is the hamstring recruitment in a deadlift dramatically different with the raised heel? Will lifting with these shoes act as an accessory exercise to lifting in flat shoes?
Ask yourself what a raised heal does for your squat. And what ankle dorsiflex is about
WL shoes decrease the ROM of a deep squat
It's for faggots
>>28704568
My ankle mobility isn't even close to being able to squat deep without the shoes. With the shoes I can squat deep and I can always work on my ankle mobilty in the meantime.
>>28704595
I don't have a deep squat at all without them.
>>28704595
how does it decrease ROM, parallel to the ground is parallel to the ground no mater how high a heel is
>>28704633
>being this stupid
>>28704513
A raised heel will slightly change the mechanics of the lift. For squats, it's a godsend. For deadlifts, it's hit or miss. Some people can lift more wearing them, some people less.
If you can't lift the same or more immediately then it's probably not for you.
I will hijack this thread to ask:
Adidas Powerlift VS Rogue Do-Win
>>28704673
This makes sense, but the difference in weight I could lift comfortably makes me think my hamstrings are in fact weaksauce. Is it possible that none of the compounds are hitting my hamstrings substantially? I have short femurs and long arms. Could alternating between the flat deadlifts and the raised heel deadlifts be a smart addition for my hamstrings then?
Chucks > WL shoes
Superior ROM > more weight
>>28704708
I think it's putting you in a less mechanically efficient position which is making you think you're posterior chain weak.
You can always do some hamstring work on the side but I would stick to flat sole / barefoot.
>>28704633
Nigga you are some type of dumb or some shit i swear
>>28704740
>barefoot
die you piece of shit
>>28704595
The amount of stability my Adidas Power Perfect II has given me is a godsend compared to what I had in my Chuck's. There's no such thing as my feet being unstable at any time during the Squat with them on. I also feel like I hit depth alot easier with them due to the heel.
>>28704513
I too asked myself this question when I decided to buy a weightlifting shoe. The difference for me when I Deadlift is that the ROM is extended very little, but not enough to make me lift less. If you find it a problem then you can just take the shoes off for DL's.
>>28704729
Relative to the ankle you have the same ROM though if everything else is the same. WL shoes help you to go deeper with a more acute knee angle and therefore increase ROM.
>>28704751
Barefoot usually implies socks or deadlift slippers. Personally I have Sabos. Thanks tho m8
>>28704729
You don't get it dude. I cannot get into the position on the left with flat shoes without taking a wide stance which completely changes the muscle recruitment. I can't even reach parallel in flat shoes without going 150% shoulder width. So no the ROM is not superior, the ROM is fucking shit because I don't have the ankle flexibility to reach the bottom. So the raised heels increase my ROM.
>>28704784
>WL shoes help you to go deeper
No, it doesn't. WL shoes creates a further forward lean, with further protruded knees, and decreases the ROM from the height to bottom. The only reason you think WL shoes increase ROM is because you're one of those retarded fucks who can't even do a deep squat without their heels coming off the ground.
>>28704792
>deadlift slippers for squats
die you piece of shit
>I didn't read SS or bother learning about the mechanical systems of lifts I'm trying to perform
Never going to make it, OP
>>28704513
Nike romaleos seem to be the best choice IMO. but i use them just for squats, deadlifting barefooted or in chucks is best
holy shit /fit/ you literally are retarded
>>28704813
Hurr durr lack of flexibility is somehow equated with retardation. /fit/ is full of people who decided to take the leap from sedentary lifestyles to activities to improve their physical fitness. These people can be understandably lacking in initial flexibility and addressing that is probably going to be a long road, if something such as shoes can help them do the lifts correctly now while they work on flexibility separately there's absolutely zero reason to discourage it. Shitbags like you contribute nothing. Fuck off.
>>28704872
>lack of flexibility is somehow equated with retardation
You realize retardation literally means slowness or limitation. I guess you're mentally retarded as well as physically retarded.
>>28704938
#startrekt
>>28704677
Buy mid tier and you buy twice m8
Fucking retards itt.
Weightlifting shoes artificially improve ankle flexibility. This allows for more forward knee travel, allowing the butt/hips to be more in line with the ankles, leading to a more vertical torso.
A MORE VERTICAL TORSO IS THE REASON FOR WEARING WEIGHTLIFTING SHOES.
A more vertical torso is beneficial for several reasons
>mimics the receiving position of the snatch (this is the most important one)
>if you have exceptionally long femurs and/or short torso and you squat with a powerlifting style (high or low bar doesn't matter), then you may experience excessive forward lean — weightlifting shoes can help
>if doing the typical "olympic" squat (high bar, ass to ankles, vertical torso, narrow stance), but not with the intent of helping the snatch/clean, then a more vertical torso will still shift more focus on the anterior chain which corresponds better to the intended purpose of the exercise
>all this shit talk about ROM
it doesn't fucking matter, just get strong at the squat you fucks.
the guy squatting 200kg with 3cm less ROM is going to be stronger than the guy squatting 150kg with "muh full ROM"
Even for people who are able to squat ATG in flat shoes, the deeper they squat the more their lumbar spine would flex. It is usually asserted that a heeled shoe allows for less lumbar flexion at the bottom of the squat for all lifters, and thus a safer stronger squat.
This anti-weightlifting shoe sentiment is pretty ignorant of the lift mechanics.
>>28704813
>WL shoes creates a further forward lean
Weight should be balance over mid-foot regardless of "lean".
>with further protruded knees
Completely irrelevant.
>decreases the ROM from the height to bottom
Not true. Relative to the ankle the ROM is the exact same if the knee and hip angle remain the same. WL shoes allow for a more acute knee angle and increase in ROM.
>The only reason you think WL shoes increase ROM is because you're one of those retarded fucks who can't even do a deep squat without their heels coming off the ground.
The "only" reason I think they increase ROM is because they do,both in the sense of increasing the ROM of the system and in allowing the wearer to go deeper. If you're too retarded to understand this then that's not my fault or problem.
Also, nice unfounded assumption about how I supposedly squat rather than addressing the topic at hand.
>>28705083
>talks about ignorance
>says lumber spinal flexion when the erector spinea is extending during a buttwink
Fuck off, deeper doesn't mean buttwink, bad form means buttwink.
I own a pair of do-wins and I recorded myself squatting in do-wins and in my chucks both with full range of motion to observe the difference. Less ROM with do-wins. More upright position with do-wins, knees travel out more with do-wins. Anatomy from those positions suggest greater emphasis on quads with do-wins, added emphasis on glutes with chucks.
>>28705074
Except that that 3cm more than makes up for the 50 kilo difference.
>>28704513
I deadlift with the raised heel. I logically understand it gives a slight deficit and maybe puts a tiny bit more strain on the hamstrings, but in real life I don't notice any difference and lift exactly the same amount.
>>28705189
It's actually kinda sad when you realize how tiny Olympic Lifters' glutes are.
>>28705220
Why would they want to carry muscle they don't need?
Same thing happens in all weight class sports, at least at high levels. Muscle groups that aren't going to contribute to performance are literally taking up mass that could be on their quads or backs.
>>28705129
Are you fucking dumb dawg? Extended erector spinae = flexed lumbar spine. Posterior pelvic tilt, look it the fuck up.
"Bad form means buttwink" more evidence you don't know your dick from your thumb about squats, 90% off the so-called buttwink is your fucking skeleton. Ever seen one? Femurs can only turn so far in a socket before they will pull the pelvis with it.
>>28704677
i have wei rui warriors, and i could not be happier.
$70 plus $7 shipping, arrived in 2 days, and rival my buddy's pair of romaleos in terms of quality
>>28705269
Fuck off retard, it's the pulling of the hamstrings that pull on the glutes to pull down for the butt wink. You can squat deep and have your pelvis stationary, and squat down you stupid fuck.
Also the erector spinae is literally on the lumbar spine, you're saying the muscle structure extends while the structure it's attached to is flexing? Fucking die you piece of shit. Abs flex while the spine extends. If the spine was flexing, the abs would be extending during a buttwink, dumb fuck. Seriously die you're fucking shithead.
>>28705189
>>28705220
>>28705249
>mfw people who squat with lifted heel shoes are killing their glute gains
>spending $120+ to get big quads and hank hill butt
>>28705314
Hate to break it to you but he's right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fN3NhZ5Ifc
>>28705269
You realize the pelvis and femur are in a semi closed ball and socket joint right? One does not pull down on the other. That's like saying you'll have to hunch your back (scapula) in order to do deep dips.
>>28705206
But it doesn't, are you fucking retarded.
>>28705379
>he's right
>posts one obscure video of power lifter with 0 certifications who has 11 different videos of himself doing barbell hip thrusts with the barbell pad on.
Someone archive this thread now. Best of /fit/.
Literally every poster in this thread is retarded.
>>28705439
>>28705394
>>28705314
http://deansomerset.com/butt-wink-aout-hamstrings/
pls educate urselves
Some sexy ass shoes right here. Anyone bought these yet?
>>28705575
>another shit link
>>28705716
Stay ignorant. Our hip sockets, which vary greatly from person to person, has everything to do with how deep you can squat without "buttwink".
>>28705763
That's nice, keep believing broscience.
ITT: mad poorfags
>>28704633
>being this dumb
up and down isn't range of motion. your limbs don't move vertically, they move in whatever axis the joint permits. the net result is the weight moving vertically but 'range of motion' refers to the motion your limbs go through to achieve that.
>>28704513
Deadlift in flat soles.
>>28705779
s/broscience/realscience/
It's the hamstring bullshit that is broscience. Your hamstrings shorten at one end and lengthen at the other simultaneously during the squat. Change in length is virtually nil.
>>28705834
>pays $120 for retarded looking shoes that will make people think you're either insecure about your height or you're actually retarded and need straps over laces for your shoe just to get 0 glute development during squats
>implying i'm not laughing at you fags
Reading these threads always makes me realize that no one on /fit/ actually knows anything about lifting.
Why do all weightlifters and high bar powerlifters squat in weightlifting shoes?
I'm sure the glute development from your 2 plate shallow squats is superior though.
>>28704677
>not buying Romaleos in lime green purely for the aesthetics
>not wanting to get your lifting kicks mired by all the nignogs at your gym
>>28705913
>high bar powerlifters
look at this faggot and laugh at him
>>28705913
Weightlifters use Oly shoes because they lift for the weight on the bar not for muscular development, so they want that extra # from using shoes. Why do you assume squats are shallow without WL shoes? Are you another one of those inflexible shit genetics?
Most people in the oly/powerlifting club I go to just take off their shoes completely when deadlifting.
>>28705956
>Why do you assume squats are shallow without WL shoes? Are you another one of those inflexible shit genetics?
It's not "shit genetics" to be unable to go hamstrings-to-ankles barefoot with a straight back.
Post a picture of your perfect squat form.
I'm not even going to address how you somehow think putting more weight on the bar doesn't make you stronger.
>>28706001
>It's not "shit genetics" to be unable to go hamstrings-to-ankles barefoot with a straight back.
>>28704513
Yes and I greatly prefer it for conventional deadlifts. I activate my quads much more
>>28706017
It's not. Good luck doing that with long femurs and short torso AKA the superior build for speed
>>28704595
>professional lifters are faggots
yeah, lol, sure professor
>>28706017
Did you or did you not look this the first time you squatted?
If you didn't, you need weightlifting shoes.
>>28706066
>long femurs and short torso AKA the superior build for speed
>>28706001
This. Hamstrings to ankles with a straight back would put my ass through the floor.
>>28706074
>implying professional weight lifters aren't faggots
>>28706076
No, I looked better.
He is leaning forward, not ATG and his knees are over his toes. Not to mention the bar is carried a little too low.
>>28706076
My form is better than that.
>>28706120
>he thinks knees over toes is a thing
>>28706120
>>28706129
i genuinely can't tell the bait from the retards in this thread
>>28705866
>Implying im not going to lowbar it for glute gains
>implying I dont have a sexy man ass already
>>28706167
Yeah I can understand that there might be a few kids who don't know why people wear WL shoes and are skeptical but this is just too much
>muh chucks
>guy posts a thread about deadlifts
>everyone goes full autist about squats
>i don't even
le hat maymay XD
>>28706129
>>28706120
>bought weightlifting shoes
>tfw still can't reach parallel
>>28706391
Just widen your stance slightly until you can. Also squeeze your glutes and abs tight to stabilize your spine. Cue "spread the floor" or whatever it takes to open your hips.
>>28706436
>just widen your stance for a highbar deep squat with WL shoes
say goodbye to your ACL
>>28706448
Keyword slightly. It's entirely possible he may have been to narrow to begin with if he can't reach parallel.
i leave for 2 hours and /fit/ goes full retard
this is the definition of shitposting
i dont even know what to think anymore
Didn't read because people said the replies were stupid but I'd just like to tell OP that I deadlift in Oly shoes and I love the stability of them. It's like pushing against a really solid rock. That being said, it's not for everyone and it creates a very small deficit. Enough to be significant? I don't know.
If anyone in this thread says weightlifting shoes are useless they are
1. Poor
2. Have a shit squat
3. Don't do superior oly lifts
4. Lmfao low bar squts
5. Is a retard aesthetics fag
>>28706781
And even some low bar squatters use them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7qFcgaWihg
>>28706773
I still deadlift in them because i like the stability, also i mainly do weightlifting so I don't deadlift too often, anyway.
>>28706781
not even close
>implying 3/4 of an inch makes any real difference to your squat that warrants all this shitposting.
I learned to squat ATG flat footed first before buying my romaleos (volts for aesthetics duh) so the raised heel makes no difference to me.
Obviously the biggest factor by far that I've noticed is the stability. There's no way my feet are going to move or rock with these on. The confidence boost during squats is great. You feel so safe and secure wearing them. That boost is enough to add 10lbs to my squat on day 1 of use.
Money well spent.
>>28706998
Why doesn't all geared lifting look like that?
>>28707397
That's IPF, which has the strictest judging, and the gear is single-ply (so it doesn't completely change the lift like multiply lifting).
Not all geared lifting looks like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBzTZHg8_7c
>>28705308
Wei Ru master race reporting in!/seriously though/they've been a godsend for my squat snatch but decreased the weight I rep high bar squats at because they shifted the weight more onto the quads. I'm OK with that.
>>28705656
shut up and take my money
>>28707363
>Obviously the biggest factor by far that I've noticed is the stability.
Same here. I squated in socks for the longest time, have great flexibility. What matters to most to me is the stability the shoes give. Feels like your feet are glued to the ground.
>>28706120
Your knees are supposd to go over your toes you stupid faggot. A proper high bar has your ass coming down between the heels. This is a beautiful squat.
>Buying $100-200 weightlifting shoes instead of standing using 2.5lb plates
>>28706120
You hooked one
>>28707684
REEL REEL REEL!
>>28707683
Yeah and I have short broad feet already. I also look like a baws wearing them.
>>28707697
>not having 100-200 to spend on shoes
>having $$$ to spend on, gear, fake tans, hair gel, ed hardy, bottle service
The people who bitch about spending money always seem to have money to waste on other useless bullshit.
>>28707697
>bringing your 2.5 lb plates to a USAW weightlifting meet
I actually hope you do this.
>>28707719
>I look like a boss wearing high heel shoes with straps on them.
exactly what an autistic kid would say
>>28707758
>i look like a boss in my black converse and hoodie
Wow this is easy
>>28707563
you don't happen to be 5'10'' and asian, would you?
saw an asian olybro wearing wei rui's at my gym talk to some other olybros about the same problem
These are the best shoes for deadlifting.
Keep the raised heel ones for squatting.
>>28705656
my frand has them. pretty nice
>buy new red adipowers for $119
>go to gym in them
>hear some guys talk about me
>why is that guy wearing those weird plastic shoes?
>i think he's insecure about his height so he wear heels
>what's with those straps? it's like for old people or retards
>maybe he's retarded haha
>>28705656
I have them, they're the best. Thanks, Adidas.
>>28707768
looks better than you, faggot
>>28707805
I know you didn't get adipowers for your birthday, but maybe Christmas, ok?
>>28707771
Nah, must have been someone else. I'm white as white can be. I did just get them though so I will probably adjust and be fine.
>>28705656
>>28707636
>>28707798
>>28707807
>buying the $200 version instead of the $119 version just for the color scheme
ishiggy
>>28705269
>>28705314
Some of these posts are fucking genius.
I love you guys.
>>28707829
>implying i can't afford $119 plastic shoes
>>28707852
>I could reach those grapes if I really wanted to
>>28707868
>getting mad cause I have them and don't even want them while you're begging and sucking your daddy's cock so he can buy it for you on your birthday
>>28707883
Projection.
The only reason I'm posting in this thread is a selfless desire to see people squat better.
You on the other hand...
>>28707758
>Calls shoes high heels, that if anything other than powerlifting shoes, would be called wedges
You're the autist m80
>>28707918
>projecting your projections by pretending someone is projecting your projections when he's calling out your projecting
get owned bro, my post was just a quote of your previous post
>>28707805
This. Don't get WL shoes. 1 in 10 Americans actually exercise. 1 in a 100 of those exercisers actually know about weight lifting. Everyone else will think you're some insecure retard who can't tie shoelaces.
and it's already been mentioned before in the thread, squatting with these will take off strain from your glutes, you will have a flat ass and huge quads.
>>28707986
Maybe I want to work my quads though and mimic my snatch? I lay leg curl, hyperextension, and stiff leg DL for hams and glutes.
>>28707986
3/4 of an inch makes fuck all difference
>>28707986
>Everyone else will think you're some insecure retard who can't tie shoelaces.
what if I go to a gym where people actually lift?
>>28708064
wrong
I squat in a pair of shitty work shoes that have no sole. They aren't great but they work better than my sneakers.
>>28708073
>Wrong
FUCK better listen to one autist who disagrees with me
I happen to use these after haven't learnt ATG with flat soles. I've seen no change in muscle activation
>>28708141
Having learnt*
>>28708141
>I happen to use these after haven't learnt ATG with flat soles.
what the fuck are you trying to say
>>28708162
Lol you missed the correction moron
>>28708141
>FUCK better listen to one autist who disagrees with me
You are the one autist. Literally everybody else, from olympic weightlifters to powerlifters who don't wear them because the heel is too much thinks they matter.
>I happen to use these after haven't learnt ATG with flat soles. I've seen no change in muscle activation
You can just eyeball muscle activation like that, huh?
>>28708181
No I just have the uncanny ability to tell when I'm using my own muscles seeing as they're attached to me.
Yet so many lifters do use them? The junior 83kg world record squat was broken recently by Brett Gibbs. Wearing romaleos.... 360kg. It's not too much for him.
the main muscle responsible for hip extension in a squat doesn't perform hip extension in a squat if your heel is raised a little bit, it just does nothing and you lift the same weight as when that muscle was working by magic
>>28708235
>No I just have the uncanny ability to tell when I'm using my own muscles seeing as they're attached to me.
That's not what "muscle activation" is. Do you know what an EMG is?
>Yet so many lifters do use them? The junior 83kg world record squat was broken recently by Brett Gibbs. Wearing romaleos.... 360kg. It's not too much for him.
I didn't say it was for everybody, I just said it makes a difference and I don't see how anybody could say otherwise.
>>28708268
tbh i've never heard of this anywhere other than you making it up out of nowhere just now
Weird, usually when I mention price of the adipowers being $119 people ask where it's that cheap but I guess everyone in this thread owns a WL shoe
>>28708268
>I didn't say it was for everybody
>.... Literally everybody else....
Oh no you totally didn't just say that in your last post captain autismo.
>that's not what muscle activation is.
So my muscles being used isn't them being activated?
Pls go m8
>>28708284
I know you're just trying to trick us in to losing our glute gains, since leaning forward on squats is the only way to work them.
>>28708307
I said it makes a difference for everybody. Again, it's no surprise you don't think it makes a difference because you don't know what an EMG is. "Muscle activation" can be measured.
moving the ankle up a little bit takes the glutes out of a squat
but also moving the bar down your back a little bit takes the quads out, since pig disgusting rippetoe squat morning fat sits don't work the quads
now what if you did a rippetoe squat in oly shoes, it wouldn't use quads OR glutes, so the bar would be moving purely by magic
Fuck off, pathetic autists.>>28705074
This is why I'm so strong. I bench 500+ on machines and most these stupid free weight morons came even get 200 up. I am am stronger!
>>28708333
That must be how this guy
>>28706998
squatted 1070 lbs. Considering the fact that it was a geared lift I'm surprised the bar didn't just fly through the ceiling.
>>28708332
>I said it makes a difference for everybody.
M80 you keep going from saying it to not saying it.
Make your fucking mind up.
With proper technique I make sure my glutes are being activated. You just have bad form.
>>28708369
the gear took 1000lb, he only lifted 70lb
>>28708387
I have no idea what you're trying to argue. Your original post stated
>3/4 of an inch makes fuck all difference
which is entirely wrong.
I don't care about you intentionally activating glutes in your perfect barefoot ATG squat or whatever.
>>28708391
The 500lbs special edition romaleos help amazingly
>>28708391
>>28708436
How much of it do you think the belt was lifting for him though?
>>28708421
Fuck m8 you clearly haven't been paying any attention to what you've been posting.
>... Or whatever.
Confirmed for not paying any attention to posts.
>>28708460
Each strap including belt accounts for 100lbs
>>28708421
>is entirely wrong
In your opinion fucktard
>>28708064
>3/4 of an inch makes fuck all difference
Oh, I guess using the barbell pad to squat to move the bar 1/4 of an inch makes fuck all difference too
>>28708463
I can see how you might have meant it in the other way. It's not like it was a clearly stated comment or anything.
>>28708506
What are you talking about? Complete sentences this time.
>>28708536
I don't use a pad m8
>>28708539
ok so what muscle is performing hip extension in a 400lb squat if your ankle is 3/4 inch elevated
what if your ankle is 2/4 or 1/4 inch elevated
>>28704513
I've tried it. I hate it. I suspect it might actually work the same way as a pull from a small deficit. Probably depends somewhat on your anthropometry/pulling style too, though.
>>28708556
But why? If a 3/4 inch heel makes no difference, a 1/4 inch heel should make no difference
>>28708577
i guess we can compare bar pads and lifting shoes because they both involve moving things by fractions of inches and there's no reason why they're a completely different topic
>>28705935
>who is Eric Lilliebridge
Get fucked
>>28708539
What am I talking about? I second the notion that you don't pay any attention to your own posts.
You can't even identify the one point in the post that includes my green text quote.
Topkek
>>28708564
No idea. I'm sure there's been research on it though.
>>28708591
How are they different? Shoes change the path of your body relative to the barbell, and the pad changes the path of your body relative to the barbell.
>>28708597
>You can't even identify the one point in the post that includes my green text quote.
sorry that I can't dredge through a thread of shitposts to find what you consider to be a coherent thought.
>>28708600
so it's just magic then
you can take the largest muscle in the body out of a lift and still lift just as much by magic
>>28708539
How I might have meant it? I wasn't talking about anything I said fucktard.
DO YOU PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THE POSTS IN THIS THREAD?
Allofmywhat.jpeg
>>28708626
Fuck I fucking replied to the post that you said it in!!!!
So many keks m8. You are one massive autist.
>>28708613
Not even close to enough to take out entire muscle groups.
>>28708689
dude what
>yfw Rippetoe, Abadjiev, Yu Jie, Chuan Fu and countless others all have their lifters wearing terrible terrible shoes
>some 2plate squatting skinnyfat faggot on /fit/ knows better
This shit is unbelievable, how is there even a thread or any discussion about this?
I know /fit/ knows nothing about lifting anymore, but this shit is getting out of hand.
>not having white/silver adipowers
you might as well be wearing £20 trash puma running shoes, bitch
>not deadlifting in just socks
>not exercising like my neanderthal ancestors did
it's like you want to be plebs
>>28709098
>not having ?? Romaleo 2s
Absolutely ??
>>28705656
Of course
