What's /fits/ opinion on the *actual* best way to cut without losing muscle? I've gotten about 100 different conflicting answers to this question so I don't know what I'm expecting out of this thread.
I've been strength training for about a year now, former skinnyfat turned musclefat. My strength has essentially doubled and I want to cut without losing my gains. How do I do it correctly?
1. Read the sticky
2. 500 cals below TDEE while maintaining proper macros
>>34973057
lies and outdated bunkscience.
if you crash diet properly, you can retain LBM
though to be fair, this guy is like 96% accurate, so if you want to listen to him instead of me, it won't steer you wrong, just take longer.
but you CAN crash diet with proper nutrition and not lose muscle mass.
i did it as a fatfuck dyel and got some noobgains in strength and size along the way.
the two biggest factors in retaining muscle mass is protein anabolism, and resistance training.
lift and eat ALL the protein.
you cannot eat too much protein, because after your protein synthesis is maximized, all the protein you consume goes to reduce protein breakdown.
you also want to eat enough carbs to retain glycogen reserves, and enough fats for healthy blood-work.
>>34973089
>>34973089
if you are tracking your macros (things like mfp makes this easy) something like 60% protein, 20% fat, 20% carb is what i used to some degree of success.
nuts are a great source of fats and carbs, as they are still protein rich, also i supplemented all my micronutrients, because a big problem with low-calorie diets is malnutrition (pretty much the only problem, tbqh), so make sure you are getting enough of ALL your nutes, macro and micro.
you got to be pretty strict about not eating ice cream and shit like that if you do it this way.
if you do a 500 cal deficit you can essentially eat whatever the fuck you want (assuming sufficient protein intak) and still make great progress.
DNP
>>34973094
name a single claim that i made that you think is wrong, and i will back it with concrete data, you memeposting fagtard
>>34973057
That's retarded, so a 300lb dude needs the same deficit as a 120lb female cardio bunny?
Total bullshit. Cut at 10-20% calories. Wait 3 weeks & re-adjust for 1lb of fat loss per week. if you're going to cut below 12%, you need to cut even slower like 5-10% defecit, or around 0.7lb a week.
>>34973089
>the two biggest factors in retaining muscle mass is protein anabolism, and resistance training.
if you read the sticky, and promote it, you would agree with this claim
> after your protein synthesis is maximized, all the protein you consume goes to reduce protein breakdown.
this is really the only other concrete claim i made, so here you go
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260197
>>34973143
retarded is harsh, but it is a little silly.
still if they are both doing cardio, the fatty is going to burn more calories, and thus have a higher deficit.
so he isn't turribly far off
>inb4 cardio kills gainz
>>34973040
Your body is straightforward.
Muscles - the more you use muscles the more your body thinks theyre needed for your survival.
Fat - Used as storage material and burned for energy.
So if you deprive your body of food suddenly, its going to think that youre approaching a crisis. Its going to break down fat AND muscle because fat is in it's opinion more important for long term survival. If there WAS a crisis, muscle isnt gonna help you get food if theres no food around.
What you do is decrease the amount of food for maintenance by a little, then increase it to some specific threshold. This way you trick your body to use fat and retain muscle.
Youre still gonna lose muscle though.
>>34973197
*decrease it to specific threshold
>>34973040
are you employed? in school? is school hard?
if you're not busy you could try DNP/Keto/PSMF, otherwise 500-1000kcal deficit. personally, i've read that it's better to get it over with quickly.
these people that advocate ridiculously high protein macros were probably sedentary during their cut. if you choose to stay active you're going to want to eat closer to a training diet, with 60% carbs, and sufficient protein (30-35%). if you are active, you need more carbs. if you aren't getting enough carbs, you'll likely get trapped into "not feeling like it" when it comes time to lift or run or do a bunch of push-ups in a push-up thread.
>>34973197
>Youre still gonna lose muscle though.
yea, but the studies i have seen show with proper protein anabolism alone, weight lost is 95-97% bodyfat.
resistance training supposedly prevents protein breakdown even further.
so... all in all it seems pretty negligible overall.
i have yet to see a study that combined protein anabolism with resistance training, unfortunately.
>>34973280
>fell for the keto meme
kek
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16403234
>>34973280
>these people that advocate ridiculously high protein macros were probably sedentary during their cut
no nigger.
because more protein = less protein breakdown.
how do you lose muscle on a cut?
protein fucking breakdown, shittard.
also i was talking about crash dieting, with a caloric intake of something like 950-1200 daily calories.
when going that low, YOU NEED most of your calories to come from protein, otherwise protein breakdown is going to be real
>>34973171
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23260197
>igher protein intakes when protein synthesis is maximized is characterized by suppressed protein breakdown and via that mechanism leads to a greater anabolic response. This explains why when net protein synthesis is measured, the relationship between amino acid availability and net gain remains linear, without any apparent plateau of effect at higher levels of availability. We conclude that there is no practical upper limit to the anabolic response to protein or amino acid intake in the context of a meal.
>suppressed protein breakdown
>without any apparent plateau of effect at higher levels
the more protein you consume, the less muscle you lose, assuming you are eating more than you synthesize (which is only like .4-7g/lb in weightlifters)
please stop giving advice, when it is very clear you have no actual information, outside of your shitty personal experience which is precisely of zero value.
>>34973346
>an article regarding the effects of a ketogenic diet on CVD, with a neutral outcome
>>34973378
>more protein = less protein breakdown
[citation needed]
>>34973496
the uh... citation is literally in the post right before yours....
and a neutral outcome is the point. THE ONLY factor that matters is cal out > cal in
ketosis does nothing but flood your system with ketones.
it doesn't help you reserve muscle mass or shed bodyfat.
>>34973089
Proof: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160759021
>sick
>3 weeks
I still hit my protein intake. I'm getting back into the gym next week. 4x a week full body. I find I don't really loose that much muscle/strength when I do cut. this is the longest I haven't worked out in a long ass time. We'll see how much muscle I lose. so far 5lbs off the scale. I did cut down tho.
:D
>>34975728
sic blog post, brah.
upboated.
