Hello /diy/ I'm about to build my first pc. Any tips?
>>984483
What kind of imbecile needs tips to build a computer...
Here's a tip, don't Fuck up.
As many LEDs as possible to make it look sick.
>>984483
get the Z170 motherboard not the economy h170 boards. you can thank me later.
<^v^>\G/
Its like lego m8. I think there are some infos in the /g/ sticky.
>>984483
Don't cheap out and buy previous gen components.
Don't listen to anyone who says you can upgrade parts later. They're lying or don't know what they're talking about.
SSDs are a worthwhile investment.
Optical drives are a waste of money.
Don't get a WiFi card unless you have to.
Do spend time to make sure air flows freely into, around inside, and out of the case.
Get a modular power supply.
Unless you're aiming for it to be a high end gaming machine, you can save a lot of money by getting a lower end graphics card.
If your video card is big and heavy, you will need to add some support for it inside the case.
Lighting is for fags.
Perspex windows are for fags.
Liquid cooling is a waste of time and money unless you're doing some decent overclocking.
The on-board sound card is usually more than capable. You don't need an additional one unless you're doing audio work.
Do not run your new tower from the ground unless you're up for cleaning it out every few months.
You don't need an i7.
You do need more ram than you think you'll need.
I'll probably think of more, but these are off the top of my head.
>>984485
An imbecile that hasn't built a pc before
>>984483
Install Gentoo
>>984497
>Don't listen to anyone who says you can upgrade parts later. They're lying or don't know what they're talking about.
Well you CAN but it's not worth it. The latest gear will be incompatible by the time you care to upgrade and you end up buying everything new. I only upgrade old stuff before I give it to a family member, usually using free/cheap from friends who are also buying new equipment by that time
>>984497
But otherwise yeah, solid tips
>>984497
>>984528
>don't cheap out and use old shit
Core2 is still competitive. Especially compared to midrange AMD, both the FX series and the APUs. In reality so few games and applications are CPU bottlenecked that a late Kentsfield (prefferably Yorkfield) is enough to drive a 970 that will do 90% of the work anyway. I just built two Q6600 machines from salvaged parts and new GPUs for some friends for under $250 each total (including monitor) and they run just fine. One was a low profile build with a 730 and the other a full tower that I crammed a new 950 into. Both run everything they ask of them at 1080p. Are they competing with $900+ midrange kepler/Skylake builds at QHD/60FPS? No. But they're better than anything I could have built them with new parts for $500-600.
>>984540
The suggestion was more to get more life out of it. Old stuff still works for sure, but in my experience I end up saving money in the long run because for $100-$200 I can build a higher spec PC that suffices for an extra year.
Source: I have built many PCs in my time.
>>984497
why would i need to support my GPU? Multi Layer PCBs are stable as fuck. The cooler on my GPU (together with fans) weighs more than 1.2kgs and it hardly bends at all. (i should porobably do something against the dust though, looks disgusting in the pic).
Also the
>you need more RAM than you think
is bullshit. Many people building new PCs think that more RAM magically makes their PC faster. A buddy of mine spend like 400 bucks for 32GB DDR3 2133 some years ago, for a gaming PC. Wasted money.
>>984483
>Any tips?
Building is easy and basically idiot proof. Don't force anything and make sure to ground yourself, then there's not much that can go wrong. It's selecting the right parts for the job that's hard. Ask someone who knows his shit and doesn't spew fanboy nonsense to do that for you, and make sure to let someone else check if those components make sense. Trusting a random person from the internet never was a particulary good idea.
Generally forums like oc.uk are a good adress to ask about something like that. They got a whole forum section and many people willing to help reserved for those questions. Also they have part lists for gaming PCs for pretty much every price bracket that they keep up to date, if that's what you're looking for.
/g/ is full of consumer whores and fanboy bullshit, so be careful to ask there. You can trust logicalincrements though.
>>984546
ram is cheap and many people still think 2-4gb is enough.
The only thing that I've seen recently that magically makes a PC faster is putting the OS and main apps on an SSD instead of a mechanical disk.
>It's selecting the right parts for the job that's hard.
It's really not. It takes basic research to make sure your parts are compatible, and even then it's limited to MB/RAM/CPU for most people's purposes. Most compatible parts will work just fine together and it's usually not worth going to the trouble of finding the perfect combination unless you're trying to squeeze out every tiny bit of performance for your dollar.
>why would i need to support my GPU?
Because some of the especially big and heavy cards will sag over time and they can pull the socket off the board. Pic related. It's just better to be safe and relieve the stress on the socket. Your card is putting a lot of stress on the socket, based on the pic you posted.
>>984554
pic related happens when you're to retarded to remove your card properly, not when it's to heavy. It needs a shit ton of force to pry an PCIe slot open.
Also i was thinking that getting the best you can get for your money is what everybody wants. If you're statisfied with "it works somehow" selecting parts sure is easy.
>>984560
>he's never owned a vertical tower with an oversized graphics card
wow how pleb can you get?
>>984541
I still tend to trust old and refurbished hardware pretty well. I've got early Pentium 4s that still run and all I had to replace was RAM. I generally don't start worrying until hardware is about 10 years old as long as nothing has failed by 5.
Their criteria was "I need a running computer ASAP and this is what I can spend today", anyway. I'll help them build modern machines later on but these toasters should be good for another three years minimum. The GPU is the only thing that needs to survive.
Also the idiot that said RAM doesn't matter is a moron. It only doesn't matter in a narrow majority of cases and matters more than CPU clock. 8GB is what you want these days of you're running Wangblows7 and playing modern games at high-ish settings and the amount is generally more important than bus speed, but using 600mhz sticks in 2016 will hobble you.
logicalincrements . com remove the spaces
>>984565
>oversized
That's not even full-length; if it were, it'd slot into the supports at the front of the case.
>>984560
If you want the best value for your money, you shouldn't be buying a graphics card in the first place.
The box is, effectively, taped shut with a $100 bill. Literally half, often two-thirds, of the value depreciates in the first three years.
PCs are one of the few things in this world that depreciate down to zero: a ten-year-old car will get you and your family to work, a ten-year-old PC is a curiosity.
If you want the best value for your money, buy an Xbox 360 for $40. It's not like the games go off. If you're buying a PC, it clearly establishes that you don't care about value-for-money.
>>984590
>consoles
unacceptable 720p seven-year-old PC hardware shitbox even when it was new. Not worth considering at all. And gamepads are garbage interface devices.
>>984609
>seven year old
You just proved my point.
Show me a seven-year-old PC that's useful for anything other than holding a door open. Let alone can run the latest games just as well as a brand-new one.
>>984657
>Let alone can run the latest games just as well as a brand-new one.
It can't. It can run an abomination of new games with shitty resolution, post processing, field of view with unstable 30 FPS.
>>984483
memes aside, buy new for CPU if you want long life, otherwise get a 2500k or a q6600 or refurb xeon in your favored socket. new amd is ok depending on price range, but never used b/c of extreme overclocking faggotry
new ram b/c used typically goes for same price without the ability to RMA, ddr3 is still perfectly fine, above 1600 with low cas the marginal returns are tiny unless you bought an APU, 8gb is fine unless you plan on using VMS, bought an APU, or are doing heavy media production
get whatever mobo fits the rest of your components, spending more here is prolly biggest waste you can do in a build. make sure sata, pcie, chipset spec supports your components, but dont get newer/higher end because you may want to upgrade later. you prolly wont, and if you do, you'll be wasting money.
buy last gen GPUs unless you want to play above 1080p or crysis 3 for some reason. (its a terrible game.) for example you can get a new in box 290x, 7990 or 750ti/780 for %50-80 the price of equivalent new gen cards. the deal is better with AMD cards because they dont gimp older cards with new drivers to get you to buy new like nvidia, but its a good deal either way. if you want good performance wait for the newest gen to drop in a couple months and let the deals on surplus stock roll in. If you buy used you have to be wary of inbred overclockers that flash a custom bios, kill their card in a year, and reflow their cards to sell them off, resultign in a dead card in a few months. if you buy used, go for cards known for being bad overclockers, or make them torture test it using valley, combustor or furmark in front of you for at least half an hour.
no reason to get an SSD above 250gb, the only improvements are for load times, so only install media editing/games/browsers here. never buy em used. use trim
HDD for long term storage unless you do multimedia editing or other large file oriented content production, and even then, save finished products to hdd
never Raid 0.
>>984672
>>984497
competent folks
>>984540
the used market is really only shit for GPUs. the only ones worth buying are the high/top end ones, and there are literally forums dedicated to people who kill them with extreme overclocks and wantto pawn them off on a goofy for near full price by shorting the right traces or reflowing the board once it's dead. otherwise used is fine except for AMD cpus because of the same OCing faggots, but they're cheap enough new it doesn't matter.
>>984572
useful site, basically sums up the entire thread
>>984657
Neither can an xbox. Any seven year old PC would be able to put out those same games at a solid 60FPS, and new ones at a stable 30-40 if you cranked it down to the same garbage 1280x720 the 360 outputs. I'll also remind you that seven years ago from right now is STILL a Core2Quad driving a 480/580.
>>984546
>why would i need to support my GPU?
Google gpu sagging.
>>984686
not to mention the only reason the 360/ps3 lasted so long is because of the shit global economy.
funny thing is people are getting outraged over upgrades in the new hardware revisions because sony and MS are desperate to get the same duty cycle out of the current gen consoles because they know that their core demographic would sperg out if they got a shorter one than the last gen.
>>984690
mine doesnt sag. With a cooler that's about as heavy as it can get, without backplate.
>>984696
It will eventually. The motherboard is the weak point in that link anyway and the problem is usually in manufacture defects or a weak connection.
>>984693
No console should last 10 years as a flagship. Ever. It directly caused the stagnation era we just got out of. Remember when New Vegas shipped with no hi resolution textures? Remember when the xbone was rumored to be rocking a god damned 6570? Both the ps4 and xbone can't even go above 1440x900.
>>984483
trust these folks:
>>984497
>>984528
>>984540
>>984672
the rest ITT are memeposters.
don't fall for the "never use too much thermal paste meme. it doesn't matter how much you apply as long as you aren't using cheapo conductive stuff, and adding less is far worse than adding too much. also the "application pattern" nonsense doesn't make a difference.
depending on your cpu, taking off the integrated heat spreader and re-applying thermal past may be worth it. really only low/mid end intel chips are applicable though.
buy low profile ram unless you are using a stock cooler or know the exact clearances
unless you planning on running 2 gpus (which is a huge waste of money) there's no need for a PSU above 550 watts as lon as you go for a decent brand
go with a non "gamer" case to save money and get one with good, simplistic aesthetics. trust me. once you grow out of the gamer tech meme you'll thank me.
Credentials: been building my own cases from the ground up for nore than a decade for profit
check out diy perks cases on YT, they're interesting for a noob.
>>984706
yeah, but the average consumer that fits the console demographic is spoiled by the previous duty cycle. they don't care about the reality of it, they just want exceptional value, and now they're mad that value won't magically be transferred to the rev1 devices, because you need better hardware than the base models to hit native 1080i and 4k for noninteractive media
Believe in yourself bro
>>984709
also never buy ram with heat spreaders at a premium. they do literally nothing but block airflow across the dimms.
>>984706
>It will eventually. The motherboard is the weak point in that link anyway and the problem is usually in manufacture defects or a weak connection.
After two years i doubt anything will change, and you usually dont keep your GPU for much longer anyways.
>>984718
if you buy high end you can easily keep a gpu for longer as long as your sole use case isn't gameming, but unless you're buying kingpin nonsense (that actually come with a little spring loaded support lol) you really dont need to worry about sag.
>>984720
if you buy high end you can just as well sell the card shortly before the next generation comes out and get an upgrade for an investment of about 150 bucks. Works for me since a decade.
>>984720
fair enough. I was just pointing out that card sag is not a problem really at all unless you're buying the heaviest thing on the market or you're dumb enough to move/ship your PC without remiving shock sensitive components
who else here is psyched at the dirt cheap fury/390x/980Ti sales that will flood the market with the polaris/pascal launch?
>>984740
Me and my tired, heat-damaged 650Ti sure as fuck are.
>>984751
was that the housefire generation?
>>984483
http://slickdeals.net/share/android_app/fp/192610
This is a sweet modular psu
I'm going to send you a build in a few minutes
>>984483
whats ur budget
>>984483
>>984771
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/R39Pyc
Go to microcenter and get a mobo+cpu bundle.
Don't skimp on the quality of ssd; paying a premium for Samsung is honestly worth it (I have used 25usd ssd, $40 San disk Kingston and ocr, $50 used intel, $70 crucial m500, and the Samsung evo... Samsung is just so much better)
If you want to go the intel route, just use the integrated gpu... Video cards are for manchilds.. Don't spend over $120 on a gpu
Follow the motherboard manual. Make sure you discharge yourself before you touch the components. You can do this by plugging in your psu and touching it.
Good luck anon
Ps, bonus points to run raid :)
>>984764
nah, that was fermi/GF110 before they fixed it (so mainly the GTX 480). I think some 580s went up in smoke because a faulty driver disabled their fans and back then there was no (thermal) throttling, so the cards cooked themself to death.
>>984483
>power 600W
>CPU intel i7
>8Gb RAM
>GPU 2-4Gb
> solid state drive (primary)
> cheap SATA drive (slave)
>>984775
>video cards are for manchilds
if you're not going to play vidya on it you gain nothing using a PC over a chromebook or Android tablet and you are throwing money away.
You're probably one of those retards who think games are for children only and have never touched a study simulator of any kind in your life. The flight simulator community frowns upon your shenanigans.
>>984799
you're right, but you used worst reason for having a GPU. for a hobby. alternatives:
>Complex CAD
>Video/3d rendering
>Digital Painting/professional or comission quality digital design
>GPGPU for simulation
>Neural network AI programming
>Finishing touches on content creation
>video/audio production workflow enhancement
>multiple monitors for productivity
>and many more serious GPU uses.
>>984497
Avoid fans smaller than 120mm.
If you can choose between a big fan (200mm+) and a 120/140mm fan go for the bigger one. You can run it at lower speeds (low noise) and still get a large amount of airflow.
>>984856
make sure they're red LED fans to make your system 200% faster.
>>984775
You called me out.
>im 26 and upset with my life choices, so I push my implicit disappointment onto anons
>>984569
>>984554
>>984546
>>984540
>>984528
>I think these are pretty insightful (I missed some post, nice thread though)
I want to warn against wasting money on a 100+ discrete gpu that you likely won't need
>i understand that there are vidya hobbiest, and that PCs are an investment
>i want to assume that you coming to this board implies that you like to tinker and learn new things, so your vidya requirements are not at an "enthusiast" level
I like the idea of a tablet/laptop with a docking station (I want one for my $120 ThinkPad tablet 2, and the x200 I refurbished)
Pros of a PC w/o a GPU:
>the price of GPUs drop so often, and most games don't require gpu benchmarks as frequently as the prices drop
>transcoding video is a CPU intensive task. GPUs do not help with Plex and other streaming (correct me if I'm wrong)
>you can build redundancy with your desktop's multiple hdd bays (this is something that could be done with some laptop docks, but transfer speeds won't be as fast)
>you can save yourself the cost of a card, and still play games (just not at godly 420BLaZEiT B144fps)
I built a budget miniITX rig (dec 2014) with a $55 Pentium dual core, a $135 gtx750, and a $25 refurbished WD hdd (had to cut costs ;) ...) I played the shit out of borderlands 2 for a few months: it was awesome, but my friend was still able to play along on his paper thin yoga 2. I went back to school, so I quit vidya and sold my gpu for $70-$80 on ebay. That money would have been better spent on an ssd, larger capacity hdd, multiple hdds to run in raid, or a 4+core processor.
All I want to bestow upon anon is that >building a PC is really fun, and we usually get started to vidya
>most vidya can run on integrated graphics, just with gimped aesthetics
>a hobbiest will likely explore other functions, on his or her pc, that do not rely on gpu.
>>984497
this guy knows his shit
if you value silence, get a case that is lined with acoustic damping foam
also, don't get a gpu with a blower style cooler, they are really noisy
don't buy into the gaming wank that component manufacturers throw at you
>>984802
>>984869
You embarrassed me even more! There are definitely gpu intensive tasks that a hobbiest can explore.
You can always add a gpu later on if you find that your budget gpu, or integrated graphics, aren't adequate. I think that multiple cores, bus speeds, and quality hard dives should be focused on when building a pc, because you can always upgrade a gpu down the road.
This is a discussio. I'm open to changing my mind. Please inform me if you think I'm missing something
>>984869
>>transcoding video is a CPU intensive task. GPUs do not help with Plex and other streaming (correct me if I'm wrong)
varies from program to program. some support GPGPU
>most vidya can run on integrated graphics, just with gimped aesthetics
AMD APUs are best 4 this
>a hobbiest will likely explore other functions, on his or her pc, that do not rely on gpu.
there's a lot of cool shit you can do with a gpu too. 3d modeling, cad, and video/2d art among them. I'd say the price/performance plateau starts at $300 USD, because you only get real gaming gains from more expensive cards, and buying a console solely for gaming becomes a better option at that point if you're concenred with quality and long term support/price per performance
>>984873
never advocate for upgrading down the road. new components in an outdated platform will never be as good/price efficient as a platform with considerations for tech at their era. future proofing is a goofy moneyhole.
>>984546
>multi layer PCBs are stable as fuck
let me tell you exactly why you are a fucking moron
Anything more complex than a computer power supply is going to have a multi-layer PCB, simply because of the sheer number of signals that need to be connected between components. Having a couple of thin layers of copper between the fiberglass/epoxy substrates isn't going to make it much more rigid or durable.
The second problem you run into is the flexing of the PCB itself. Most ICs on the boards are going to have BGA (ball grid array) packages, because they allow the engineers to make much denser boards. The solder that is used for consumer electronics these days is all lead-free and therefore much stiffer and more brittle than leaded stuff back in the day.
Here's the problem: The board, being fiberglass and epoxy is rather flexible, the silicon wafer in the IC is stiff. If the board flexes just slightly too much, the solder joints could crack and just one is enough to prevent the device from working properly. The bigger the IC, the more delicate it is. Graphics cards have pretty fucking big ICs.
Third problem: The whole concept of having a graphics card that is perpendicular to the motherboard is flawed. It worked back in the day when a graphics card was no bigger than an average audio card and had a small or non-existant heatsink. Putting a 1+ kilo monster card never was intended back in the day where they came out with the concept of PCI extension cards. That's why you see motherboards these days that advertise reinforced PCI express connectors that can handle heavy graphics cards and whatnot. It's just putting a band-aid on a much bigger problem. We are not likely to see a solution to this, because there would need to be a BIG change in the whole consumer computing industry and that is not likely to happen, unless the technology changes completely (like quantum computers).
tl;dr Give your graphics card some mechanical support, because it needs it badly.
>>984879
Thanks for the info and response.
I'm on board with everything except
>never advocate for upgrading down the road. new components in an outdated platform will never be as good/price efficient as a platform with considerations for tech at their era. future proofing is a goofy moneyhole.
I think that future proofing can make sense if you buy the best compatible component for your architecture. I'm thinking that the gpu will not be upgraded to the newest gpu, but to a gpu that is a few generations away from the cutting edge, & will cost less in the long run.
One downside to my outlook on upgrades is the hardware requirements of future software (ie directx11,open gl {I dont even know what these are called or how they work; I just know they exist. Pls drop knowledge} and how software is developed around these machine languages {or whatever they are })
Give me some buzzwords anon. What do you know about the softwares you mentioned, and how the software standards match hardware.
Thanks in advance
>>984897
yeah. never said get a new one. right now the best cards for the money are 290X and 750Ti, like the other posters have said. I was saying there's no reason to not get one and then upgrade later if you know the current platform you have wont severely bottleneck it. should have been more clear
>>984897
>most dx11 cards in the current gen also support vulkan, which wil preclude dx12 support ecause of extreme interportability between the 2
> the adobe software suites, blender, and lightworks and other support gpgpu transcoding and rendering, can'tthink of streaming servers that support it off he top of my head, you'd more likely need browser/client side dupport for codec VDPAU and hardware acceleration anyway.
>>984907
also buy AMD in the prev gen/used market because people are less likely to kill them with OCing and AMD cant afford to driver side planned obselescence because of their laughable marketshare
>>984887
The card doesn't flex though, look at the pic i posted. Also broken BGA connections from PCB to ICs are hardly a problem with graphic cards at all. The GPU package is quite big and the solder points large, the connection is rock solid. The other ICs/components on the card are simply to small to be put under any relevant amount of force by reasonable flex of the PCB. The only problems with BGA connections and graphic cards i can remember is nvidias bumpgate (back when they fucked up in their transition from high lead to eutectic bumps for soldering GPU to package), and that had nothing to do with flex but with thermal stress. Well, and the console chips.
It's a non issue. GPUs and mainboards are designed with those things in mind, they aren't ignored by the manufacturer for the sheer reason to keep RMAs low. They don't build graphic cards/mainboards that need ghetto modded support structures they don't even tell you about.
>>984921
>look at the pic i posted
I did look at the pic you posted and I can clearly see sagging on your graphics card. Look at the angle between your chipset's heatsink and the graphics card, it's beyond evident.
>>984946
the perspective makes it look really bad. There is no major PCB flex, the complete card is just a bit tilted because it's only secured by screws on the left side.
>>984956
Nice blurring out the socket there.
Also, that angle looks worse than the original picture.
>>984560
>getting the best you can get for your money is what everybody wants.
Of course it is. What I was getting at is that the gains from finding the perfect combination are minimal when we're talking about a first time build. Not usually worth the time investment unless you're already looking at building a top end machine with an equally top end price tag. For the average PC builder (especially a first timer), it's just not worth it.
Go to /g/
>>985030
g is unhelpful and las I checked doing a pc build yourself is still diy
>>984775
I suggest a better case than the 200r
I have the 200r right now and it's too loud and I can't stand how the entire top is basically open because of the huge grate.
I ordered the Corsair 400Q to replace it because it actually has sound dampening foam and dust filters for $40 more
>>985012
Oft course it's worth the time investment. Making sure you got the right tips takes like half an hour. Not doing it is burning money. Why wouldnt you do it?
>>984956
I cant focus both things, but the straight line from my thinkpad gives you an idea by how much he card flexes. Almost not at all.
>>985053
The 300R is just as bad. Shitty fans and no dust filters. The Nanoxia Deep Silence 3 is the best you can get for about 60 bucks, really nice fans, insulated and with dust filters, and overall nice quality.
>>984586
>supports at the front of the case
what cases have this? I ony have a 30$ midi case and i had to bend the 3.5" rails to fit mine.
>>984483
Touch the chassis often to discharge electricity.
Coffee filters make the perfect wipes for things like dust and thermal paste, they leave zero lint behind.
If you get mad and feel tempted to force things, or just generally behave like a tool (see >>984485), take a break. Better to wait than to break shit.
