Are water softeners a scam?
>>965132
If you don't know what hard water is or haven't noticed weird things like white residue all over your laundry or how you can never get your car clean because the water itself leaves stains that are almost impossible to remove when dry then yes.
>>965132
They do work. Depends on what you are paying for them I guess.
>>965132
Ever see someone jump off a bridge or something and hit the water hard? Always happens in natural bodies of water like lakes.
Water softening is used in community pools where diving boards are involved.
>>965132
My water boiler is filled with chalk all the time, boil it out with vinegar, comes back right away when I boil some water. Lot of fun to get these chalk-flakes in your coffee.
I'm buying one after I've done the more important stuff around the house
>>965132
it's a paranoid homeowner addon.
by the time your pipes fill with calcium it'll be time for new pipes anyway.
pic related is what they are intended to stop.
>>965204
>my aorta.jpg
>>965205
Water softening is the removal of calcium, magnesium, and certain other metal cations.
Hard water leads to the buildup of limescale, which can foul plumbing, and promote galvanic corrosion.
but mostly a concern if you live at or near the geological bottom or end of your water district.
>>965675
Or southern California.
Pic related is a faucet in a furniture store.
I used to have one of my own shower faucet that was similar.
It gets bad enough it literally eats our fixtures.
...
We might have some problems from Rocketdyne seeping around down here.
I just moved, in the new place the water is moderately hard, water leaves stains, soap barely bubbles, and water doesnt make your skin slippery when showering. Also had to change the water heater because it was full of calcine. When i make tea calcine collects on a thin film on top of the mug.
The previous place had a water softener, it ate up like 2x25kg of salt every year (but im not sure about the amount). Water didnt leave white stains, soap bubbled and your skin was slippery when showering. I only knew i was out of salt when i noticed my tea had calcine film floating on. Also softened water tastes wierd.
Having hard water is not particularly unhealthy i feel, but bad for household items. I dont know what softened water does to your boy, but im still alive and ive been drinking that for like 15 years now. Didnt have problems with the washing machine and water heaters...
>>965132
live in an area of the country that isnt exactly up to date on allot of things, water here is shit.
If I leave a cup of water out for a week to evaporate there is a white layer of crap on the inside of the glass and it does not just scrape off.
Sometimes the water actually stinks. another time for about a month the water would come out black. This has happened on about 5 occasions.
Needless to say I used bottled water for errythang except showering because muh 40 minute hot showers
so to answer your question, No they are not a scam and you should also use a water filter.
also note that fluoride is a neruotoxin with many undesirable side effects and you should not drink it and you especially should not give it to children.
>>965132
Bump
>>965711
>also note that fluoride is a neruotoxin with many undesirable side effects and you should not drink it and you especially should not give it to children.
Tap water has about 1ppm, whereas toothpaste has about 1000-1500ppm. Drinking water without fluoride prob isn't going to benefit you all that much if you're still using regular toothpaste. I imagine there are a lot of people out there who rah rah fluoride but then brush with Crest twice daily. Obviously most people don't drink toothpaste but I think this discrepancy is worth noting, especially since kids tend to swallow a ton of toothpaste.
>>965739
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-stops-adding-fluoride-to-water-1.1094492
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/tooth-decay-calgary-fluoride-water-1.3450616
>>965741
I do not understand why you are sending me these stories but OK.
Its not really surprising that kids would see more cavities though. They haven't developed good oral hygiene habits yet. Fortunately it doesn't really matter for them since they don't have their adult teeth yet.
They are still probably getting a ton of fluoride because, like I said, kids like to swallow toothpaste.
>>965743
http://doctorspiller.com/Fluoride/antifluoridationists.htm
But yeah, sure, it's all a conspiracy to poison your children for reasons.
>>965748
It's not a conspiracy it's just hindsight. If the risks outweigh the benefits, the status quo should be adjusted. Fluoride isn't on the same level of delusion as anti-vaxing or chem trails.
Adding fluoride to water to prevent cavities is fucking retarded
You pay for dental work so why is it the governments problem if kids get cavities in teeth they are going to lose anyway, it's not like you have public health care.
If they really wanted to do stop decay they should add it to the 3 litres of coke you get every day with your fast food you eat 3 times a day.
Silly Americans
The question isn't why are they adding fluorine to water, it's WHY are they adding fluoride to water. Because nobody drinks it.
>>965757
Fluoride is literally industrial waste and they found a way to sell it to the government. I don't think any other country does it except third worlds that we bullied into it?
>>965753
You understand there's more fluoride naturally occurring in tea, right?
>>965132
Depends on how shit your water is anon.
Same thing with filters.
>>965774
Naturally occurring fluoride is not the same thing.
>>965794
Because it's not the work of The Government, amirite?
>>965765
They do it in parts of England
Just another reason to stay north of the border
>>965782
>Chicago suburbs here I cannot water my garden with tap water. It fucks up the plants with whatever they put in the water.
It's probably the chlorine they use to treat the water. Fill your watering can and let it sit for a day or two.
I have hard water and no water softner. I can't even make coffee from the tap water. Luckily my fridge has a pretty decent filter and the water tastes much better.
And you flouride conspiracy wackos can go fuck off with the vaccine autists. It's been proven to help. Why would "big evil gubbermant" pay extra to treat the water with it. Fuck, you don't even buy water from the big gubbermant, you buy it from your local source.
They're nice. They can prevent mineral buildups or staining on sinks and bathtubs. Also, soft water is so much better for your skin.
>>965132
I wish my current place had one. The water here is shit. The dissolved solids must be off the charts, because it leaves crazy deposits in anything you let dry / boil off, smells, and dries my skin out like crazy.
>>965739
I know toothpaste is packed with the stuff. I dread brushing my teeth because of it, and after I do I use a whole bottle of water just rinsing out and brushing with just toothpaste to get it out.
Its disgusting how much actually remains in your mouth when you're done brushing.
I wasnt aware of the measurments though, thanks for that. I did just read something saying a study showed a drop in iq with increased flouride, so hopefully people will become more aware of the problems with our current ways of life and we can actually fix this world.
>>965703
Hard water is actually good for the body, as it adds micronutrients, but you're right, it's hell on your hardware.
>>966044
That study is for people who regularly drink water that is up to 30 times more fluoridated than our water... Imagine basically eating a few grams of toothpaste every day for your entire childhood.
>>966115
Yes. I saw that part. The study also fails to mention that IQ results fluctuate wildly every year, and each test can return different results.
But I'm not about to be telling people that part when I casually talk about how we need to unpoison the well.
>>965908
Your problem is that you are reading things which are not there. In other words, you're projecting. I'm not anti-government at all, but you didn't even realize that.
I also never denied that fluoride has benefits. The point is that it has disadvantages as well. We need to weigh those variables in order to decide what the best course of action is.
The effects of fluoride ingestion may not be as dramatic as say, prolonged exposure to asbestos, but it's worth investigating our usage of it and its effects on human health.
>>966253
>prolonged exposure to asbestos
last I checked asbestos doesnt do shit if you dont screw with it. Floride however will keep doing stuff as you keep being exposed to it.
>>965794
wew lad
>>966233
Don't forget that IQ is a shitty metric for intelligence, and is easily affected by things like when the last time the testee ate, how long they've been awake, whether or not they actually give a shit about the test...
doesn't a water softener ADD a bunch of salt to the water? if you drink a lot of your tap water then you are drinking a lot of extra salt. too much salt isn't 'good' for you either.
I had hard water (far west 'burds of chicago) and do not use a water softener. been in this housr for almost 18 years. sure the chrome on the faucets gets mineral deposits on it over time. the 'cure' for that is to simply wipe down the faucet after each use - just wipe off the water droplets before they evaporate and leave the mineral deposit behind. also try to be more careful (less messy) when washing your hands to not splash so much water onto your chrome fixtures in the first place.
cont...
>>968496
cont...
if you are too lazy or not dexterous enough to not make a mess then live with the unsightly deposits on your fixtures and don't complain.
as for buildup inside the pipes. there are of course a LOT of variables. in my case, house is over 100 years old, I'm sure the pipes were replaced at some point (they are copper). during various remodeling work I've done where I cut and moved the copper pipes I don't seem to have ANY significant buildup inside the pipes.
so the only real issues I experience are the deposit build up on my chrome surfaces. and since taking up the habit of a quick wipe after use, my chrome surfaces have remained looking as new for years. 'problem' solved.
should worry more about Pb (lead) then flouride or 'hard' water...
even then lead effects small children more then adults.
>>968488
> things that are true for any test where you ask people things
Name a better one then
>>968514
That's the problem, there is no good, objective way to measure intelligence, so you shouldn't even bother.
>>968530
Why does it correlate so strongly to criminality, happiness, staying married, health, and obesity?
You know if it's such a bad test. And why do so many scientists use it?
This is a great thread since I've been considering getting a water softener for a while. We moved out of the city and to part of the country where the water is extremely hard. Our faucets have mineral build up and our toilets have hard buildup. When we run the dishwasher and the washing machine we have to add a water softener to the soap. I've been doing the research but my husband thinks they are a scam since most places around here are wanting 5k. Anyone have a recommendation for one and what a reasonable cost for one is?
>>968536
they do work but they can make water taste a bit funny. 5k is pretty insane, does that include install? depending on the size you need they can be found here(Canada) as low as $800
>>966049
We had a build up of some microorganis in the comunal water supply so the treated it with chlorine and told people to boil any tap water.
Unfortunately, our guinea pig dodn't like the chlorinated water and within 2 days lost all of his hair and then his skin started to crack until he was more or less just raw flesh.
Shit's scary.
>>968536
yes, I'd be suspicious too if everyone is asking $5K for a softener... YIKES! x1000!!!
then you have the ongoing costs of the consumables (the salt)... all in all its an expensive proposition.
>>965908
chlorine in water was banned over 15 years ago. its chloramine which is not nearly as volatile
also, the calcium in the water is locking out magnesium so your plants go Mg deficient.
fucking cation exchange. how does it work?
>>965132
IMHO they are not a scam, and worth every dime. i've had one for 10+ years, mine removes all the nasty shit the 'city' puts in the water (chemicals etc.), biologicals, metals and what not. we've got a RO system for drinking water. i live in a very hard water area of the country. i love the system. make sure you follow the recommended maintenance for your system.
>>968558
bullshit. i spend about $7 every three months on salt, and the annual maintenance runs about $100...mostly for the filters on my RO system. very cheap in the long run. especially since the life of my water heater has been long extended by the lack of scale causing crap in water.
>>965132
here in west texas, you have to have one, otherwise your pipes will go to shit and your water will taste like ass
>>965908
>>968564
I put tap water into my pond. Then every month pump pond water onto yard. Grass in that area of the yard grows so much faster and greener than the rest of the yard. Even with watering the rest of the yard. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would not believe it. Half the yard looks like a magazine picture. Yes there is a lot of nitrate in the water but the difference in the grass is huge.
>>965794
Are you retarded? Yes, yes you are.
>>968495
It only adds salt to your hot water. They're normally installed inline before the hot water tank.
>>968909
The amount of sodium chloride added to the water is minimal
The NaCl is only present when the resin beads have become fully loaded with calcium and magnesium, the salt is used to break the ionic bond stripping the beads clean and ready to use again
Can someone tell me why I see an oily residue on the surface of water if I ever pour any? I have a filter, but the water still has oily lines on top.
>>968530
Yes we should bother, if only because it regularly allows us to make surprisingly accurate predictions. It cannot always be used, there are limitations and there may be no way to get it 100% accurate (nothing ever is), but to reject it completely for that reason is foolish. One might say unintelligent...
>>965204
>paranoid
I'm in Arizona, the water is insanely hard. My dishes are cloudy, it tastes gross, etc
>>966048
cool shit
im interested to see what it does to my body after 15years of softened water.
>>965794
Dihydrogen monoxide kills
>>965150
that sounds like such a crock of shit
>>965150
looool
that's pretty good.
hard water = high concentration of dissolved solids
soft water = low concentration of dissolved solids.
You can by a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. Distilled/RODI is 0 tds. Pure water.
>>971434
>he thinks distillation purifies water
ohhh you.
>>971443
>he thinks they actually distill "distilled" water
Deionization
>>965132
How does one test a water softener to see if it works?
One came with my house but it was disconnected, making me think it might be broken, how to tell???
I like hard water for drinking and showering, soap doesn't feel so greasy.
But my dishwasher is unusable. Everything comes out with a white crust on it. Fucking disgusting.
