>fiberglass
Electrical tape
Cat 5 cable and rj45 connectors.
Oh, wait, they're wonderfull.
Mitre bond.
Great in theory with the rapid set time but you gotta get that shit right on in one application.
I second fibreglass.
Also MDF just because of the dust.
asbestos
>>953286
>fiberglass
'the Devils pubes'
>>953286
even better when its in an attic full or dust and rat shit
>>953286
Any and all particle boards.
Fiberglass
Gorrila Glue
Hot Glue
Great Stuff
Aerogel blankets
SMD/SMT
Only the last three are worth anything when done.
I think the shittiest thing to work with on any construction project is the homeowner.
>i've never touched a hammer, but what you're telling me is wrong
>I'm a brand new homeowner and can't afford a happymeal as a result of my mortgage, but what you're charging me is way overpriced and i'm going to attempt to report you to the BBB for charging me to fix and emergency!
>I paid 4 contractors to renovate, then fix the previous contractors mistakes, can you fix what they all did for like, $50?
>I know you're halfway through what I asked, but can we stop and do something completely different?
>I wasn't expecting this kitchen renovation to cost this much, thanks for the estimate, but I'm just going to paint the cabinets instead.
Also, I hate working with glue and adhesives.
>>953286
>Shit material
>bringing up fiberglass
>evry problems associated with it arr in 90's era ot because of not using proper protection
>ity the materials fault.
You stupid?
>>953351
>thinks wearing all the proper protection needed to use it isn't fucking annoying
It is also a shit material simply because there are better materials to use.
>>953352
Ints not whem you get used to it.
And if you buy the cheapest shit from walmart instead some decent stuff its the users fault.
I do prefer styrofoam for isolation, but fibreglass ist still a great way to go.
When i start to build my house i wilk use ytong and styrofoam anyway.
>>953352
>thinks PPE is somehow optional for doing *any* kind of work.
inb4 nannystate
>babies crying about wah muh itchy witchies
>>953299
this guy gets it.
>>953351
>durrr wearing clunky PPE in a tiny boiling attic ripping out asbestos and fibreglass is totally fun time
>>953294
Not the braided ones, not when trying to crimp the connectors on. And don't get me started on keystones.
>>953364
>Use aerogel blankets instead
...is...is this a thing that's economically feasible now? I thought that shit was still ridiculously expensive. Or is it just large monolithic pieces that are priced like they're diamonds?
i really hate
glass
metal that is rust welded shut
shit thats glued
>Fibeglass
how about shitty old fiberglass extension ladders?
Everytime I take it out I get fiberglass all up in my arm and face.
Everytime I put it up I can see a cloud of it break off and enter my lungs.
>Company won't order a new ladder for 4 more months.
>Can't bring my own. (Nor do I particularly want to buy a $600 ladder when they are supposed to provide it)
>>953364
>Oh yes, the fallback phrase for everything shitty ever.
>reducing or eliminating work related injuries an illnesses
>a shitty thing
Your a fucking moron
>>953370
http://www.buyaerogel.com/
$30usd per square foot is the starting price.
I'll probably get some 5mm "Pyrogel XT Blanket" for a small cook oven I'm making. It'll be so well insulated that an oven light will be able to cook the food, if I wanted to wait that long.
http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/pyrogel-xt/
Stuff for houses is on that site too. They even have structural products. Cost is more expensive than standard stuff, but that up front cost is paid back in massive savings. Though, it does depend on your climate as too how soon the payback would be.
>>953407
>$30usd per square foot is the starting price.
Yeah nobody in their right mind will spend tens of thousands to produce a negligible effect on their house.
Let us know when its closer to $2 a foot.
>>953408
>negligible effect
$200 less for heating/cooling bill per month isn't negligible
>Let us know when its closer to $2 a foot.
http://www.buyaerogel.com/product-category/bulk-quantity-cut-to-size-aerogel-blankets/
>>953411
it adds R1.2 (whatever that means) or R1.5
Fiberglass insulation usually takes jumps of R1-2 per inch or grade of insulation. So you could up your houses insulation rating of R1.5 by simply swapping out the fiberglass to a better rated one, or move up to rigid foam or a blown-in alternative.
>$200 heating cooling
So on a 2000sq foot house to add aerogel, it would be close to $100,000 to retrofit all your shit. It'll only take 45 years to pay for itself. Even with new construction at wholesale, this would be prohibitively expensive to do. With markup, nobody is going to pay an additional 100-150k when the realitor says you'll be paying a bit less on your heating and cooling bills.
k
>>953286
Oil, lots of oil.
>old HFA fluid that has been used for years
Smells like puke with shit and arm pit
>>953412
Conductivity describes the material itself regardless of thickness/form-factor, but for a sheet of a given thickness, as you'd normally buy it, R-value is still useful.
>>953293
Oh look, someone who has never worked in a real job. Go get your TPS reports in bitch.
You use electrical tape for pulling wire and tying the wire to pullrods/fishtape/string/you're moms dick. You also SHOULD use it as a secondary protection around wirenuts/butt splices/lugs and anything exposed on a switch. Not to mention, if you're pulling plenum wire, you should wrap tape around the wire is touching that could damage it, such as duct strap or all-thread.
>Implying you get to choose what insulation the customer uses.
>Implying the customer doesn't always have fiberglass insulation because it's cheaper than any other option.
>Implying you've had to work with 5'x5' ceiling tiles that are literally an inch of fiberglass with 1 side dipped in paint.
Why the fuck do you kids always want to chime in when you have no idea what you are talking about??
>>953351
Everything I just said to him applies to you too. PPE is the fucking devil when its 100F+ outside and the building you're working in has no ventilation and feels even hotter inside.
>>953445
This guy gets it.
>>953293
>foam board
Uh....
>Dismantling HUGE old fibreglass HAM radio mast at house clearance
>I'm doing absolutely fuck all down on the ground
>One guy on the roof loosening the mountings
>One guy on scaffold beneath him, ready to grab the antenna sections as they come down
>First one comes down
>Suddenly think "wait, does he have gloves on?"
>No, No he does not
>Grabs the fibreglass rod as it falls
I drove him to the hospital
>>953445
But heat protection is part of PPE, anon.
Why don't you bring a fan to ventilate your crawl space and wear a cooling vest and dunk your shirt in your ice chest?
If I'm going to be working in a crawl space for any length of time it's always worth it to get comfy. Being not comfy means I'm miserable, hate my job, and might even miss work because I have an injuring from working at an awkward place.
I actually never worked with this shit and I hope I never will.
>>953441
When you buy aerogel products everything is in thermal conductivity, not R-value. The reason is because R-value is a worthless measurement for this stuff. R-value is thermal resistance.
>>953415
That stuff is 3mm thick for that image in >>953407 Also, you can't use R-value properly with something that doesn't conduct heat like fiberglass does. We are talking space age materials here.
This guy did his living room for $2k.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/24/diy_insulation_with_aerogel/
>>953415
http://www.cnet.com/news/high-tech-aerogels-wrap-homes-with-insulation/
>>953516
>100C
so finger will still get burned
what is the point
>>953516
>This guy did his living room for $2k.
>the outer walls were barely colder than inner walls
>walls were warmer than windows
has this guy been in a house before? ever?
great idea not doing a before after comparison
>>953516
>The reason is because R-value is a worthless measurement for this stuff.
No, it's not. Is the sheet/blanket/whatever product infinitely or arbitrarily thick? No? Then it has an R-value.
>Also, you can't use R-value properly with something that doesn't conduct heat like fiberglass does.
It does conduct heat. Very slowly. You can use a much thinner layer of aerogel to achieve the same insulation that a slab of foam or fiberglass would need for the same R-value, but R-value is still absolutely applicable.
>>953408
I'm actually insulating a van with it.
I'm spending about $3000 into aerospace tier insulation before I throw solar and lifepo4 bank in. Once its insulated the energy cost to power HVAC to sleep at night can be low enough to run off solar/alternator power.
>>953638
>at night
>solar
>saving money
>running an internal combustion engine to turn an alternator
That, and you'll have a fresh air source to allow for airflow in a van making even a 100% efficient model only as efficient as you'd like to comfortably be.
>>953646
not quite sure what your getting at here.
But the engine will only ever charge batteries while the car is in use. The van I selected uses a diesel engine which can be easily modified to run from biodiesel. I will probably not be implementing that until more critical charging methods are added like 110/220VAC and PHEV are added.
I don't want to derail the thread with information about that project through. The aerogel is ungodly expensive. The people suggesting it are autistic, I'm not judging though, I'm autistic with them.
It's pretty much the best insulation money can buy. I'd get more of it to insulate my van if it didn't mean prolonging the project 5 years.
My van is only 360cu foot though. A large home can be 100x that, meaning almost $100g to insulate with 10 mil aerogel at current rates.
Obviously bulk rates would be at play then, but no one in their right mind would use it for anything other than a tiny home.
A tiny home of 400 sq foot would still use at least 15g worth of aerogel to line every wall in 10 mil. I would say if you got the money or a generous loan, do it because it will probably save money throughout the life of the structure.
But honestly I would try to downsize as much as possible so you could use more layers. To line my 360cu ft van with 2 inches of it would cost around $6,000. That would be retarded high R value in combination with reflective foam barriers(+air channel/vent), and some cheap thinsulate layers in between. But the problem is thickness. In smaller areas wall thickness matters, so I only used 10mm, and tried to make composite insulation to block multiple types of heat.
As this broke down to be the most cost effective way at a small scale to insulate, it probably would scale to homes, perhaps doubling/trippling up if youre rich.
>>953293
Are you fucking stupid? Electrical tape is used to secure and waterproof connections in outdoor boxes all the time. It can be used in situations that will have direct sun exposure for decades without issue.
>>953567
>No one uses it for aerogel for a reason.
No one? Then why the fuck is it in the picture [>>953407]? Why the fuck does Wikipedia list an R-value for aerogel in their list of examples [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)#Example_values]? Or how about here [http://www2.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/aerogel-insulation.html], or here [https://www.brikbase.org/sites/default/files/best3_shukla.pdf] or here [http://www.starch.dk/private/energy/img/Spaceloft_DS.pdf]?
Stop being absurd. Aerogel may have exceptional performance but it's not snowflake-enough to make a simple representation of thermal resistance somehow non-applicable. It still obeys the laws of thermodynamics, same as any other insulator.
>pre processed bone plates
Brittle af, stinks while cutting and sanding
>Buffalo horn
Stinks like my granddads toe nail fungus and the dust goes everywhere
>>953742
You're right, how stupid of me. He's probably got 500lbs of batteries and a charging array on a VAN.
>>953827
The first questions is what the hell do you need to run at night?
Not your fridge. It can handle until the morning. You can also insulate it more so it keeps thing cooler longer.
Not your laptop. It has its own battery.
LED lighting? You only need a wee tiny battery or super capacitor for that.
Speaker system? Use your laptop/smartphone and headphones.
1 single 100aH battery should be all you need at the very most. And, you may only need it for your laptop if you're going to be gaming all night or a DC fan to move air all night to stay cooler in hot summers (or drive north to cooler weather). Hell all I have is 1 105Ah deep cycle marine battery and when the power is out for 2 weeks due to storms, I never have to recharge it. I'm happy as a cat with my laptop, HDD full of games, books, DIY stuff, & movies, LED lights, and real books to read.
You see, that's the fallacy of solar. People think you need tons of batteries. You don't.
>>953844
I have around that amount in prismatic lifepo4 cells. currently i have 3x 16s banks in 48v. 20ah per cell gives me around 2.5kWh, Ideally I'd be at 8kWh with 8 banks.
Its about 10-15 lbs per bank, not bad, plus theyre flat cells that sit under the floor joists.
I expect air conditioning to need at least 500Wh, even with good insulation there are other factors at play like body heat and air circulation. But I expect most nights I wont even need it, the weather here is just under room temp atm.
>>953851
I have a normal house AC for a window that is 713watts but it cools an area 384sq feet to bone chilling. I'm sure if your living space in the van is well insulated, you could use something as low as 300watts without a problem. Also, you'd not need to run it constantly of course. Whatever you do, don't buy an AC unit meant for RVs. they are balls out the worst efficiency AC units in existence. A van 40sqft to 75sqft will only need an AC that's about 3000btu, but finding that for cheap is nearly impossible. So, 5,000btu at about 550watts will be your best best for price (under $200usd.)
5k btu 552watt
http://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Electronics-5-000-BTU-Window-Air-Conditioner-LW5012/203127491
Running it 8 hours while you sleep (it will only run as it is needed with a thermostat) would be 4,416watts
Worst case scenario, which is unlikely. You have 3 days of 0 sun (meaning it'll be cold and won't need your AC) but you run the AC 8 hours a day anyway because that's how you roll. You'd need 574aH of battery life over 116 batteries wired in 4 series 29 parallel configuration. (12volt 20aH batteries, 48v array for 3 days with no sun.)
If evaporation cooling works in your area (low humidity climate) then you can get a portable evaporative cooling unit that only needs 50watts.
http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-CSO71AE-Indoor-Portable-Evaporative/dp/B008UHXPD4
50watt for 8 hours for 3 days is only 7aH, 4 batteries in series max. (12volt 20aH batteries, 48v array).
Keep in mind, my AC unit only runs about 3 hours a night and my living space is very well insulated and weatherized. (279aH 56 batteries, 4 series, 14 parallel, 48v array for 3 days with no sun.)
Calc done with: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-information/battery-bank-sizing
>>953299
Those things are asbestos? Damn.
Some 15 years ago we'd go to grandmother's place out in the country and ALL the roofs were covered in that. With some stacked behind the barn.
Doubt it's related to my chronic cough though as I wasn't spending the summer cutting them up or something.
>>953407
>living in a cardboard house
oh you americans
>>953347
>Great Stuff
Wife has banned me from using this material because of all the clothes I've ruined
>>953940
>An F3 tornado struck Javaugues and other villages along its 7 km path. With a width of 3 km this is the widest documented tornado that has hit the continent.[3]
>The deadliest tornado outbreak sequence in American history. Killer tornadoes touched down from Texas to Pennsylvania. Produced at least three F5 tornadoes and several F4s, including an F4 that killed at least 255 people and injured 1,236 in the St. Louis area.
Eurofags, please stop telling us how to construct houses that will 'last' you don't even fucking know.
>>953286
Bitumen damp proofing. Half the jobs i try to use it on the stuff just won't adhere. It normally happens on old garage slabs where i presume years of oil spillages have reduced the absorbancy of water based product.
>>953945
>living in nature's shithole
I'm American and I think you need to fucking move to a different place it that shit is your excuse for making shit houses.
>>953941
Full kek.
Ever have a can turn "on" and not be able to turn it off again? Then you run around trying to fill every gap and crack in the entire place like a mad man. Last time it happened I was nearly done and I just said fuck it and tossed it out in the snow.
>>953445
>You use electrical tape for pulling wire
no i dont, i bend the wire to hook it. if it needs tape i'm exceeding the pull strength and the cores are in danger of being stressed
>secondary protection
i live in a first world country where mechanical and electrical fixings do their job properly in the first place.
>anything exposed on a switch
i don't have anything exposed on a switch. all conductors are shielded by how they are manufactured and because i terminated them properly.
>plenum wire
what the fuck are you spraffing about now.
>no idea what you are talking about
haha ok sure thing buddy
>100F+ outside
boo hoo let me get you a tissue.
>>953656
>secure and waterproof connections
wow fucking kill yourself
>direct sun exposure for decades without issue.
the issue is it leaves everything sticky and doesn't actually secure anything, mechanically or electrically. if you did your job properly in the first place you wouldn't need to use electrical tape.
especially in a waterproof box the cable should be attached mechanically to the box, typically a waterproof grommet or if the cable is armoured like it probably should be if its outside then its glanded to the box and problem solved.
if you need fucking plastic tape to join the conductors then i feel really sorry for you.
>>953286
Molten lava sucks.
>>953965
The only thing he said that I've actually seen recommended in a book is the plenum/mechanical protection. Old bell practice for house IW was two wraps of electrical tape if the wire was going over a pipe/corner/metal that might possibly damage it or come into contact.
Almost no one ever bothered to do this and it's not taught anymore.
>>953965
Like I said kid, get your reports in on time or they'll get a new temp and you'll be back to sucking dick free for the protein.
>>953965
Oh and I forgot to mention phase tape but thought this was put to bed.
Go google it so you can type up a shitty wrong response.
>>953992
>u r gay
anything constructive to say?
>>953995
phase tape
we use heatshrink for phase identification if thats what you mean, i have a box of different size sleeves and a little clampy thing that shrinks them. much faster than tape and no fannying around cutting and playing with tape. its all colours here anyway, it's not the done thing to mark live conductors with symbols.
>>954015
Why you so mad James?
>clampy thing
>>954022
>James
do i know you?
>>953890
I've considered using the 500w window ACs (even the climateright doghouse AC unit) however I want to avoid inverter loss.
I am not quite smart enough to build my own vapor compression system but Im gradually getting there and that is what I intend to do. I can either go with DC compressors or belt driven compressors and a dc motor. But to start probably just a 100w fan and some ventilation.
Ive also looked at the liquid cooling and ventilation suits astronauts use, thinking maybe I could cool my mattress and just use a fan.
>>954084
>inverter loss.
It isn't so much of a big deal really. Cooling your sleeping area is a good idea. I live in an area so humid that sweat doesn't evaporate well. So, I've often had to run a fan and keep one leg in a bucket of water over the bedside. Then I got $130 AC and only use the fan and AC now. Thankfully, I don't need to run it much.
>>953388
as a dude that lost his grandfather to mesothelioma, agree 100%.
Watching him die to a completely preventable disease was probably the worst thing I've ever had to endure, and that includes drug abuse/addiction and molestation.
>>953367
Buy crimps that use inserts. Makes everyone's life easier. As for keystones, get a punch down tool. Chinese sellers will sell you one for under a dollar.
>>953965
Lol @ core stress.
So you don't tape your cable together when you're running loops?
Also it makes a great bandaid
Have you even seen the back of a switch mech? You can literally touch the terminal screws, thus tape is a great way for a little extra protection
I use electrical tape for heaps of jobs. Trying doing a 100+ pole board. I run the tape down the line side of the breakers to mark circuit numbers.
Oh yeah and phase tape
So to summerise, you're a douche bag
>>953907
Asbestos is dangerous only if in a friable condition. Those roof tiles might release a few fibers if broken or scraped, but a few fibers of it in outside air is nothing.
When used in a friable form, like a fire blanket or some types of insulation, it can be very dangerous indoors. The fibers break down small enough that they behave like a gas, but will settle out of the air eventually. Then as drafts or physical disturbances make them airborne over time you get too much in your lungs and the shit starts.
It's all over the place in nature anyway, we all have millions of fibers in our lungs. As with anything it's all exposure concentration and time.
>>955185
Enjoy your stone age tools?
Roof patch
>stains everything the color of poo
>stains are pretty much impossible to get out
>once it's on your hands it stays for a while
>until it's wore off, it makes your hands tacky
>in the end, it didn't even work for the intended purpose
>>953286
Why can't they spray that shit with something that sticks on the outside as a small layer so it doesn't get everywhere?
fucking shit material
>>953286
Bleached beef bone smells like death when I grind it for new guitar nuts and saddles. Hot hide glue isnt much better.
>>955281
I gues they arent really shit materials, just disgusting to work with.
>>955281
Bone and horn are the worst. I have to use my flow hood when working with it.
GRP is fucking horrible to work with.
Anything involving the word "resin" especially fiberglass.
Things I hate working with
Silicones and mastics
Expanding foam
MDF
>>953287
Fuck that, I love the stuff. Not for wires, but for nearly everything else it's great. Same goes for packing tape.
I have a new one. It's not that bad really but it's messy.
Intumescent mastic. It's not terrible to use as in application but it seems to take forever to go off if at all and when you have to rework a service through a fire wall it's been applied too, it goes fucking everywhere.
Messy messy stuff.
>>953286
Just use knauf fibreglass, that shit is fantastic
>>953286
Bikes. Adjusting bikes is the most annoying job ever, specially in the field when they break, something keeps hiting places it shoudn't and you don' thave a bench. Bike makers have 4 arms
>>953363
I remember mixing with this as a teenager, kept cringing like a little bitch
>>953965
You really have no idea how retarded you sound.. do you?
>>953348
had this one happen to my dad and I while finding out a customers porch was caving in while adjusting their saggy gutters
> my sons friend just graduated engineering school and he say if it's stood this long it'll be fine you're just looking for money
PVC soles are such a cunt
>take forever to sand, because it just melts
>because of this it gums up the belt, making it even harder
>half the time you'll find unseen cracks or crumbling under the surface, which you have to sand out and patch
>a bitch and a half to glue, needs to be double glued while still got from sanding, and the glue used sets really quickly but won't stick at all of it's slightly too wet
TPR, PUR, resin and leather soles are all fine to work with but fuck PVC. At least it seems to be getting less popular as a soling material.
Plastic cling wrap.
It's so hard to tear evenly. I end up handling it too much and it sticks to itself. Ugggh!
Rainbuster
>>953965
As a low voltage electrician, I think you're fucking retarded.
>>953299
>>953314
I do HVAC system installs, there was this one job, I had to install some vent in the attic. Rat shit, rat poison and blow in insulation, all in the summer. Woke up in bed with my pillow blood red. I eve wore a mask but it didn't do shit.
Cement board. Aweful. Just aweful.
>>953286
I once had to do a week-long cleanup job at a factory that manufactures fiberglass fibers/sheets. Those particles were FUCKING EVERYWHERE across the whole property. Living hell.
You basically had to throw away your clothes after every shift. Even with a full body Tyvek suit, that shit still finds its way to your body.
The crazy thing is that half of the fulltime workers had been with the company for 40 fucking years. Their lungs must be 3/4 full of glass fibers.
>>953965
please do yourself a favor and shut the fuck up
>>953299
Bitch please
>>957909
Did you wear one of those N95 cotton masks or an actual respirator?
Old armored electrical cable. Needed to cut it and reinstall into a junction box because it had been drilled into. This was some tough stuff, seemed to be made of spring steel and triple wrapped. No bonding strip so it looks to be made before 1959. Wires were wrapped in a waxy cotton braid, the covering for the hot wire was a slightly darker color, had to really look to see which was which. This is in an ordinary home, not a commercial building.
>>958180
Actual respirator with a combination gas and vapor cartridge.
>>958415
Maybe your mask is a bad fit? I install fibre to the home so I am in roofs and underfloors every day and never had a problem with a decent respirator and I have been in some hellish crawlspaces like you described.
>>953348
A good contract can prevent most bullshit.
Also if your the 5th person hired to do a job, the homeowner is probably the problem, not the first 4 guys.
think of your bids as screening clients not looking for work, this changed my life.
>>958450
If the homeowner hires jose and juan from home depo, then hires jim the handyman, then billy her son's friend to do a job, both the homeowner and the "contractors" are the problem.
I'm not a contractor, I just see all the shit they have to deal with. Like yesterday, guy is a contractor for "over 25 years" was doing his buddy a favor by gifting him a light fixture, wasn't sure what the existing fixture was in the middle of the ceiling was, so he grabs a set of pliers and starts yanking on it.
>he broke the fire sprinkler with a pair of pliers
Yeah, he said he'd never seen a fire sprinkler look like that and didn't know it was one or about the water pressure behind it.
>>953299
dude, asbestos isnt used since the 80s in some countries and since late 90s in some third world countries, if you took that photo, its probably just a fibre-cement plates, its just that handymen still call this type of roof by "asbestos roof", but theres no asbestos anymore, as the one in the photo doesnt look a year over 10 in fiolth
>>953348
>>I wasn't expecting this kitchen renovation to cost this much, thanks for the estimate, but I'm just going to paint the cabinets instead.
what's the problem with this one? really
u should know better than to travel to the place and spend 3 hours giving a precision budget before giving a x-to-5x guesstimate, that type of client would give up on the 1x range anyways.
>>958542
It isn't installed now, but it is still around on many houses. My grandmother's house has an exterior made entirely in large asbestos shingles.
