What are some cheaper PLC's that can handle higher direct output amps then this CLICK PLC? Pic related can handle .3 amps but the electromagnet I have in mind will run .33 amps. Would this work, or would I destroy the PLC? 24VDC.
>>944122
put a transistor driving stage on the output, you dork
>>944126
I was just going to say this! Transistors or ice cube relays are really the best bet.
PLCs! Finally a topic I can talk about... I was a project engineer/manager at my previous job and spent a ton of time on PLCs (technically PACs).
Just use a relay. They are super cheap. You can get small ones in whatever voltage you need. How fast do you intend on switching the device? Large SSRs are <$10 on Amazon and you can get various small relays from whatever electronics supplier you like.
Transistors are fine, but I think relays are better because the available formfactors lend to control panels better and they are widely recognized in industry. Always try to avoid rigging shit together.
My recommendation for a CHEAP PLC is Velocio (http://velocio.net). They have some really affordable shit with some decent modules (like a relay board). I have one and it's good for the price. You can do Ladder programming or flow charts. It even lets you NAME variables and inputs/ouputs.
The software is kind of clunky, but it's functional. They are a small company, but their support is good.
I've used Automation Direct's DirectLogic controller before and fucking HATE it. I don't have any experience with the CLICK stuff.
I have a lot more experience with Opto22 (awesome product) and Allen Bradley CompactLogix though.
(Picture related. Panel on a refurbished machine where I used to work. If you think this is messy, you should have seen it before. I was constantly fighting with technicians to make them do neater work.)
>>944149
Can I ask you some question?
>>944149
Hey, is there a cheap way to into ladder logic? I work in one of those companies where if you know something they'll let you dick with it, but they won't pay to teach you something (looking for a better situation) and I want to get deeper into industrial controls.
>>944162
torrent books, brah
>>944168
Books are only part of the problem. I'd like to have at least the IDE for it (if that's what they call it), and some way to simulate what's going on.
>>944169
PLC simulators do exist for a reason
>>944161
Of course!
>>944162
Simulators are one way. But honestly, buy a PLC and some basic switches/lights/relays. The best way to learn is by doing. And it's fun! Youtube has a shit ton of tutorials.
That Velocio PLC is a good way to get started and really cheap. Automation Direct has their DirectLogic and CLICK stuff, which is also a good way to get your feet wet.
Keep in mind, that industry is slowly moving toward PAC (programmable automation controllers) that allow for text-based programming similar to BASIC scripting. This is the future.
>>944170
Simulators are useful, but investing $100 in hardware will be a lot more productive and hold your attention longer.
>>944172
>That Velocio PLC is a good way to get started and really cheap. Automation Direct has their DirectLogic and CLICK stuff, which is also a good way to get your feet wet.
Is that similar to AB/Rockwell in how you code it (my only experience is with their stuff, so I don't know if there's like an industry standard language or if everybody is off doing their own thing).
>>944174
Ladder logic is ladder logic. It's VERY similar between brands, the only real changes are to the IDE.
Even when working on a PAC, the BASIC-like language each vendor has is very similar. Much like any other programming language, if you know one then picking up a new one is easy.
If you want to program AB at home I recommend a MicroLogix 1000 and 1100 PLCs from ebay because Rockwell gives away the RSLogix shit required to program them: http://www.rockwellautomation.com/global/support/plc/micrologix.page
If you want to do CompactLogix or ControlLogix, good luck. The software (and hard ware) is expensive as fuck and hard to pirate.
>>944178
Cool, thanks for the info. I was asking because I didn't want to spend time learning some strange style that's alien to what's generally used.
>MicroLogix 1000
I have a 1200, do you know off the top of your head if RSLogix works with that? (I would google/check that link myself, but I'm on a *really* shitty internet connection right now...mostly text pages are all I can really load on it).
>>944191
Their page only says it's for the 1000 and 1100. I doubt the 1200 would work. Rockwell are hardcore Jews and do everything in their power to make life a living hell.
http://forums.mrplc.com/index.php?/topic/17637-rs-logix-500-starter-with-micrologix-1200/
RSLogix 500 is over $1000... It's fucking crazy. You'd be better off selling the 1200 on ebay and buying an 1100 to fuck with.
>>944126
>>944137
>>944149
Thanks for your input guys, I should have mentioned that I was hoping to avoid relays to save room and "clicking noise"... I might have as many as 80 individual outputs. I work in industry every day with PLCs and relays and such, but not too often on the transistor level, seems like that would take a fair amount of soldering/room too but I'm not writing it off, if I need to do that then I will.
>>944197
Thanks for checking.
>do everything in their power to make life a living hell
I remember almost shitting a brick when I saw how much they were charging for a replacement notification light. The fucked up thing is it took me an hour to convince the OM to let me just soldier in a new $5 cap instead of spending like $300 for the replacement unit.
>>944199
What's your budget?
You can avoid clicking by using solid state relays. These card relays are BALLER: Mouser part number 651-2966728
Finder also makes them. There's a large variety of input/output options. Reed relay versions are also available.
Or use transistors... You will need to design/build a circuit board to hold all of them. The card relay is far superior. I wouldn't even consider the transistor idea on an industrial scale. That's some Arduino shit there (I love Arduino).
There are some Chinese transistor boards out there, but I wouldn't dare use them in industrial applications. Search for 'plc transistor board'
Find some extra room!!
If you're dealing with 80 outputs consider Opt22 stuff, their 32ch DC output modules are very affordable and each channel has a 1A fuse with their large breakout board: SNAP-ODC-32-SRC
and SNAP-ODC-HDB
You can also use their small breakout board, but you're limited to 0.25A: SNAP-UDC-HDB
Their standard 4ch cards handle up to 3A per channel (a lot!) SNAP-ODC5-I
You can use a 16position rack for up to 64 DC digital outputs. Additional racks/brains could be added.
I would post links, but apparently that's "spam"
>>944208
10/10 post! This is exactly the advice I was hoping for! I'll have to research them further when I have a day off or if it gets slow. It's so hard to find these lesser known brands unless someone points you to them.
It's a personal project, but I was hoping to keep the project around $500 without sacrificing the lifetime of the project.
I'm wanting it to be able to sit on a table, countertop, end table or nightstand so the size it what will be my biggest issue, the smaller the controls side, the better!
Thanks a ton for your input!
>>944277
Glad to help. If you want to talk further email me: calatron (at) gmail
I'd be glad to help with component selection a programming or whatever.
If you can live with 54 digital outputs, then maybe an Arduino Mega is for you. You could even network two of them to get around 100 outputs. It's going to be the smallest, cheapest, and "easiest" to program.
I would then go the transistor or SSR board route. You can buy 8ch SSR boards on ebay for $14each shipped. These would be an OK choice if you go the PLC route as well.
Please don't goto email, this thread is already a goldmine.
also, OP, are you me?
>>944291
A week from now (more realistically a couple days) he might want to talk about this. The chances of me coming back to the thread are slim. Hence giving my email address.
>>944291
>23 year old mechatronics tech?
I work with Allen Bradley daily and have done arduino projects, but this guy has both experience and brains and is also nice... he should be hailed, "Mr. PLC, king of the /diy/ logic controllers."
>>944298
I think that it's more than just me who is/will be grateful for your advice, thanks!
>>944321
>"Mr. PLC, king of the /diy/ logic controllers."
Maybe here on 4chan.
My background: 29 years old with a BS in Mechanical Engineering Techonolgy, 5 years experience programming AB and Opto22 along with GE iFIX Proficy HMI. Programming PLCs, doing electrical panel design, wiring, sensors, troubleshooting, just about everything. Arduino experience dating back to 2008.
I've done a lot of hands-on electrical panel rebuilds and in-field startups/service. Including trips to Germany and Sweden. Nothing like staying up all night in a timezone 6 hours ahead to fix a problem because you plane leaves the next day.
I also know enough SQL, VB.net, Python, and AutoIt to be dangerous. Really comes in handy.
I'm not an expert in anything except learning exactly enough about something to make it look like I know what I'm doing.
I relocated to Denver back in the summer, so I'm currently looking for work. In the meantime I'm doing some PLC stuff with a customer and Arduino projects a few local guys
>>944324
I'm sure, but it's 4chan and even though this is a SLOW board, the information is very temporary. If OP wants to discuss this stuff in greater detail, email is the best way to reach me; even if he just wants to call my attention to a new thread here so we can correspond publicly.
I check this board infrequently because I can only take so many shipping container "house" and cuckshed threads.
>>944341
How's the EE/BME market in Colorado? I'm getting my engineering degree in a couple of years and planning on relocating there because of personal reasons.
>>944341
would you recommend arduino for someone wanting to control relays/pumps/motors via network interface or find something else? arduino looks easy as shit. i have programming experience/knowledge...
>>945494
depends. how critical is it that they work?
PLC is certainly far more robust which is why you'll find it in a lot of modern art.
you can make simple analog circuits for controlling things like switching intervals, speed control and temperature regulation.
>>945494
If arduino looks easy, ladder logic is far more simple.
It's literally shit like
>if there's current on input one and three, then energize output 4
and
>if there's current on input one and three but not two, wait 400 milliseconds and energize output 4
It's very, very basic logic operations and timings. The representation takes a few minutes to get used to, but it's easy.
>>945491
For what I do (project management and controls) honestly, it isn't amazing. There are quite a few jobs, but there is a lot of competition here. I haven't been seriously looking as I had a decent contract gig until November. For about 2 months around Christmas/New Years there is almost NO JOBS listed due to holiday schedules and budgets. Job listings are just starting to pick back up.
The majority of the jobs are construction and computer/it/programming/web related.
TL;DR It's OK, but you aren't going to just walk into something.
>>945494
Absolutely. PLC is old technology. All the new processors are actually PAC, which stands for Programmable Automation Controller. They use combinations of Flow charts, BASIC-style text programming, and ladder logic.
Arudino will also get you familiar with other control hardware. It has an amazing community, so there is a lot out there to learn and do.
You can move up to a PLC whenever you want for less than $100 (see previous recommendations). Or dive right in and start with ladder logic.
Arduino also sets you up for computer programming because it's so similar to C... The more tools in your toolbox, the better.
>>945505
How robust and how long does it stay ON? I wouldn't trust Arduino on anything that you can't hard restart at a moment's notice.
>>945530
Basic IF-THEN statements are exactly the same as ladder logic, except you have to type everything instead of clicking symbols and clicking dropdown boxes.
>>945552
I work with Allen Bradley PLC's and apparently "PAC's" every day... Never noticed until you mentioned it that their newer stuff is indeed called a, "PAC." Never heard anyone reference them as that before and never noticed on their sight.
I'm a good programmer with ladder logic but the written logic is much harder for me. I'm a quick learner and have written my own aduino programs, but it takes probably 10X longer. Maybe it's because I'm always having to look up the correct syntax. Have you ever used or seen ladder-to-adruino software? It appears that there are a few of them but the, "SoapBox Snap" looks to be the most developed.
>>945552
I think that other states are more in demand for you than others, something to consider. I'll bet there is a good pick of jobs in the upper Midwest.
>>944122
>PLC
Oh cool, dying technology general.
>A massive chocolate factory just renovated, our DDC was a tenth of the price, and the engineers couldn't find any difference in latency.
>>945711
PLC is still used as a generic term. And many PACs are being used as tarted up PLCs because people don't know better or are scared of actually writing code.
I think the biggest benefit that Allen Bradley has over other manufacturers is that their CompactLogix PACs are very flexible. You can pick whichever style of programming that fits your application best.
(Doesn't change my opinion that there are a lot more reasons to use an Opto22 PAC than AB.)
PACs lend themselves to more complicated applications. I've programmed some shit that requires extensive math and calculations on PACs and it's a cake walk.
PLCs and ladder logic will be around for a long time since it mimics relay logic that is easier for electricians to work with. Many PLC programmers are just electricians that are handy with computers.
The more programming you know, the better off you'll be. Once you start writing AB structured text, a lot of doors can open for you and you can simplify a lot of code that way.
I have briefly looked at Arduino ladder logic IDEs, but never bothered because they look underdeveloped and I can code much faster (and more complicated things easier) with normal code. This SoapBox Snap thing actually looks decent. I shall investigate further.
>>945719
I'm sure, but my girlfriend and I moved here mainly for the mountains. We have more than a year left before funds run out. Hopefully we can land jobs soon. Until then, I just have to hope I can keep a trickle contract work going.
>>945736
>DDC
Isn't that mainly used in HVAC applications? I have zero experience and have never even heard of DDC before. Maybe that's becasue my 5 years of industry experience is in building automated machinery.
As I've mentioned, PACs are replacing PLCs (in my industry) because they have more flexibility and loads more processing power/memory.
PLCs also have a long time before they are obsolete for a couple reasons I can think of:
continued in part 2...
>>945739
>>945736
Part 2.... START!
Reasons why PLC won't die any time soon:
>Electricians can maintain/troubleshoot/program/understand them without being trained on how to program computers
>There are TONS of them in existing systems. The mechanical components of these systems will likely outlive the electronics. Sometimes the reason for this has to do with approvals/validation. I've worked on 30+ year old equipment that CANNOT be replaced because the companies running them would have to go through the FDA approval process again. Sometimes that's impossible. It's cheaper to have service techs in there on a monthly basis than it is to get FDA approval on some shit.
>Not everything is interconnected. Standalone machinery is perfectly fine with using PLCs or PACs.
>Companies stock replacement parts and have in-house people to deal with some PLC platforms. Training, stocking new parts, and redoing controls is expensive by comparison.
I'm sure there's more, but that's what comes immediately to mind.
Alright since I work in automation I figure I should add my 2 cents to the conversation.
As far as the click goes you can buy a micrologix on ebay for the same price and you can use Rslogix 500 (for free) with it. Now I will inject that the click can basically do the same thing that a micrologics 1XXX and with the click you can tell allen bradley to go fuck itself. Which is almost worth the purchase price of the click in of itself.
>>944122
Honestly the click is designed to use a relay. They even have a relay expansion module.
>>945494
Depends the arduino and a PLCs are designed for different applications. Arduinos are really made for proof of concept type of work while PLCs are designed to work within production environments.
basically think of it as the level manufactures are willing to guarantee their product. If you run into a problem with the arduino there is no one to call when the pump breaks. Now if you use a PLC and call the manufacture they are going to give you help (assuming the company paid for a support contract.).
>>944341
Sup bro got a BS in Electrical Engineering Technology.
>>945743
To add to your points. PLCs offer support. When a process cost several thousand dollars for every hour your down support to get you back online is really important.
>>945743
Also, the people who pay for them know that they work, the automation workforce knows how to make them work and they are standardized reasonably well. My company would rather bay $10,000 for an Allen Bradley setup than to have something set up for $100. The reason is that nobody else would be able to work on it and again, that it is a familiar and trusted product.
>>945736
>DDC
>HVAC system
>muh climate control
HVAC control is the retarded cousin of anything in the industrial automation sector. The simplest of machines that actually make things, process, package etc... Are by far much more complex systems than heating or cooling rooms. A PLC is overkill for HVAC and that is why its more expensive.
>>945945
>My company would rather pay $10,000 for an Allen Bradley setup than to have something set up for $100.
I've had to deal with this quite a bit. Rockwell OWNS the market. Often there isn't really a reason for is except brand recognition.
I worked with one company that insists on AB and even sent their controls engineer to our factory during the validation. He had never seen ControlLogix, he had NO IDEA how to program AB structured text. Bad news bucko, 90% of the code is structured text. The whole reason they ordered AB (which costs the company I worked for over $15,000 MORE just in parts/software than the standard Opto22... That's before they mark it up!) so they could "maintain" it. I had to show him around the software and explain everything to him, just so he could feel involved. It was a joke.
That's not the only instance of that. Other companies insisted on it just because they were told that's what you should order.
There are better solutions out there. I only installed about 10 AB systems during my 5 years at that company. I had more IO card failures in those 10 installations than I did with 100 Opto22 installations.
Reasons why I think Opto22 (I'm sure other PAC systems are just as good) is better than ControlLogix:
>1/10th the price. Seriously.
>LIFETIME warranty
>Unlimited tech support without a contract
>Software license is $1000 and you can install it 9001 times. Minor upgrades (and some major) are free.
>Smaller foot print
>Easy to use BASIC-like programming in flow charts, similar to AB structured text.
>>945892
>EET
>tfw no one believes you can be an engineer
Shit sucks, bro. Every interview ends with "so, what's different about Mechanical Engineering Technology compared to normal Mechanical Engineering?"
I don't even apply for jobs that are design based. Mostly hands-on project shit where the fact that I didn't take calculus based courses doesn't matter.
>>944149
Anon, I'm going to a community college for Industrial Electricity. I graduate this semester and have taken courses in Mitsubishi Q series, SLC 500s, MicroLogix, and CompactLogix. I was wondering how I could get into an automation specialist position right out of college (do I need more schooling etc.)? I do not want to work maintenance like everyone else in KY w/ this degree.
>>946128
Have you written Structured Text and/or Sequential Function Charts? I hope so, because this will set you apart from the others in your field. One of the differences between a specialist/technician and a maintenance schlub is the ability to actually write code.
I'm going to assume that you have good experience not only wiring panels and basic ladder logic, but you can author code. If you can't author code, you need more classes.
Really push your ability to CREATE solutions in code. Not just connect points, read diagrams, and layout a panel.
Can you use AutoCAD Electrical? Do you have your own symbol library (because not all symbols are standardized and ACE doesn't have all of them to begin with)? Have you designed panels? Have you done BOMs? No? Create some and use them as examples of your work. Bring them to an interview.
If I was in your position, I would do an independent project. Something like a Sous Vide cooker with a PLC (maybe something with more sensors). Select all the components, design the panel, wire it, run it, demonstrate it. Create a full drawing package for it and mock validation tests. A full project from start to finish with documentation. You need to show people that you are a specialist, not just a fucking continuity tester with legs.
You should also learn VBA and SQL. BASIC programming is everywhere in automation. It's in PACs, it's in the background of GE iFix (and I'm sure other SCADA), it's behind Microsoft Excel and Access. SQL is needed because you need to put your data somewhere. Learn basic querying and scripting.
I know Arduino gets shit on a lot in automation, but learn it anyway. Not every project needs $10,000 in hardware and software to get off the ground.
I've posted my email in here already >>944285
>calatron (at) gmail
and I'll also invite you to contact me that way if you desire help with anything I've mentioned above. It would be nice to keep as much information on here as possible, but there you go.
>>946158
Your post made me realize how fucking behind I am in terms of the entire automation field. I have no experience in Structured Text or Sequential Function Charts. I have experience wiring panels and extensive knowledge of ladder logic. I have a little SQL experience. I have basic experience in AutoCAD. My community college offers a CAD class specifically for electrical so I will take that course.
I am saving your post to try and improve my skills. Thank you so much, Anon.
>>946219
>Your post made me realize how fucking behind I am in terms of the entire automation field.
Not to stroke your ego, but this has more to do with your curriculum than you abilities/knowledge/skill. How are you supposed to know what they should be teaching you?
Take that AutoCAD class. That should be a requirement.
You can still take my advice regarding building a "portfolio" using ladder logic and your existing skills. Demonstrating your knowledge and motivation is much better than just showing up with a degree/certification.
To get a head start on structured text, grab an Arduino. It's C based, but programming is programming. Arduino has a HUGE community which is invaluable. You will transition to structured text very quickly once you have a good understanding of Arduino. You can't really start writing structured text (or equivalent from another supplier) on anything cheaply.
Here's an idea for you... Opto22 offers a free demo IDE and simulator. It isn't AB, but it is more credible on your resume than Arduino (why not both?)...
http://www.opto22.com/site/downloads/dl_drilldown.aspx?aid=3172
http://www.opto22.com/site/downloads/dl_drilldown.aspx?aid=3690
It uses flow chart programming with a BASIC-like language. You can also program using functional blocks. This is a free way to build some programming chops on a PAC that you can brag about on your resume. You can also pick up used Opto22 stuff on ebay for cheap if you keep an eye out (SNAP-PAC-R2 or R1 are the processors to look for, the R2 is cheaper).
Have you done any HMI work? There's no point in being able to program a PLC/PAC if you and your users can't interact with it. You have software/PC HMIs and hardware HMIs. Hopefully you can be familiar with both. Hardware HMIs are old school and very prevalent, but as tech advances, you see more software-based solutions like Wonderware and GE iFix.
See part II (fuck the 2000 character limit)
>>946242
In industry where traceability and data collection is very important (think FDA regulated, like pharmaceuticals) there are more and more PC based HMI/SCADA systems. Let me get more specific:
In pharmaceutical production companies need to comply with 21CFR Part 11 to control their production. They also need to follow GMP/cGMP process guidelines. The old way to accomplish this 21CFR Part 11 compliance it with paper chart recorders. These are on the way out. Companies still make them because there are large customers out there running 30+ year old equipment that they CANNOT change because their processes are accepted by the FDA. Electronic chart recorders are also acceptable, except they are a huge pain in the ass.
The modern solution is to use a PC based HMI/SCADA that talks to a PLC/PAC through an OPC server (RSLinx handles this with AB products) and pass that data to a database. This database CAN be SQL (frequently MS SQL Server) but it isn't OK in an FDA application that is 21CFR Part 11 compliant because it is not encrypted. Instead, we store the data in Historian Server (Proficy Historian is GE's solution). Here's the good news, you still need to query it using SQL commands!
I've mentioned this before, but these PC-based SCADA/HMI solutions run require programming to take full advantage of. Guess what language?! Visual Basic for Applications (VBA). Guess what, you can learn VBA through Excel.
So how do you meet these sorts of guidelines with hardware-based HMIs? Well, you don't. Or you use the chart recorder option discussed earlier.
TL;DR, you need to know how to work with HMIs too if you wanna do more than maintenance.
>>946251
My school works closely with AB since it is the most popular PLC in the factories near us. I have classroom experience with PanelView HMIs. Your links are certainly helpful, thanks again.
>>946260
AB is by far the way to go. In Europe, my understanding is Siemens has a healthy market share.
>I have classroom experience with PanelView HMIs.
Perfect. Now you just need to try to find some instruction on Structured Text and SFCs.
>>945743
The company I work for deals largely in resurrecting fried PLC systems, refurbing the control panels and creating upgrade paths for old equipment. Looking at retrieving software from a 30 year old B&R system at the moment, and porting it to a modern Mitsi or Siemens unit. There is an entire 'margin' industry around catering completely to supporting equipment that the original manufacturer is no longer willing to discuss other than in the form of a complete replacement of the entire factory system.
>>946409
I've done a lot of exactly that. Luckily the company I worked for specialized in one type of equipment, so instead of trying to recover PLC programs, I would just port and modify our existing solution.
We did occasionally get old equipment in that wasn't working, but the customer was broke. In those cases, if the computer was still working, I could usually reprogram the PLC. If the computer was toast, they were looking at buying a new PLC and software.
If you don't have every conceivable version of an IDE, it's impossible to recover a lot of that shit. Hell, even connecting an old ass PLC to a new computer is difficult.
I remember two years ago I had to set the IP address on an Allen Bradley 1769-L35E and I couldn't do it through BOOTP (or whatever) with it connected via Ethernet. So, I decided to use the serial port. Turns out it requires a special RS232 cable. What the fuck. Luckily the manual had a diagram and I had a spare cable to splice. Why couldn't they just use a normal serial cable?
>>946463
We have a box of cables we've made for weird-ass old PLC comms. So far DESU it's the B&R thats given us most trouble, getting the software was a true journey of discovery, not we're trying to find a cable for it...
guys, i have a VME bus
galil moltion card, allenbrad bluewire IO card and XYCOM XVME-630
XVME-630 Low-Cost Processor Module
With a 25 MHz 68EC030 CPU and twelve 32-pin memory sites, which accept different combinations of EPROM, static RAM or Flash memory. On-board time-of-day clock and battery, two serial ports, math
coprocessor site and on-board interrupter
can i still do shit with this? im not a PLC bro but i have some PLCs that i have to work with/on. galil wouldnt even send me a manual, said it was too old fucking bullshit
>>947063
First off, I have no experience with the device you have. My recommendations are based on 15 minutes of Internet research and my actual-PLC experience.
If you don't have the software for it, don't even bother with the dumb thing. List it on ebay and hope some sucker needs one REALLY BADLY. PLC Center has one listed for $4,100; list yours for $999.
I can't find any documentation online and most results are Chinese sites trying to rip people off with stock photos.
With that said, what are your goals? I've provided a lot of Getting Started with PLC 101 advice here, I recommend you just go one of those ways. PLC has a pretty small community since so much is proprietary and very few people do it as a hobby. Starting with known hardware is very important.
>>944122
>Pic related can handle .3 amps but the electromagnet I have in mind will run .33 amps.
I doubt an additional 30 milliamps is going to break it, should work fine.
>>947078
i mostly wanted to use it for the 3 axis servo drive, but since GALIL wont sent me a manual, there isnt much i want it for. it hooks up to an old ass HMI, and i can scroll though the old program (bending press/servos) but its of no use to me., the whole question was a shot in the dark really.
my real question is, even if my hardware has opto-iso's built in to the board, will i/ should i get an auxiliary opto isolator board to protect I/O board?
>>947099
>even if my hardware has opto-iso's built in to the board, will i/ should i get an auxiliary opto isolator board to protect I/O board?
Depends on how much current it can carry and your load.
Using the servo driver it has will likely be a fool's errand without a manual and having to work on an ancient HMI.
50A, dual channel servo drivers are $30 shipped on ebay. If you put ANY value on your time, just go that route.
>>944162
Try Schneider Zelio Soft 2. It's free, easy and has a Simulation mode
>CTRL+F "ULN"
>0/0
come one guize
>>944149
>inside of that PLC cabinet
my body is ready
>>946264
>In Europe, my understanding is Siemens has a healthy market share.
In Europe, Siemens is almost a standard. They literally give away their shit to colleges and schools, so everyone, from the electrician to the engineer, will be familiar with their suff (only). In fact, I am almost certain in all my professional life I haven't used an operator panel that wasn't a Simatic.
If your company isn't willing to pay the prices Siemens asks for, then Omron and Festo are the alternatives.
Allen Bradley's products are really rare to come across, at least in my country, your only chance to find US made industrial equipment is to have an US born/educated boss. Only happened to me once, I was still a student, and it was pretty fun seeing all these expensive artificial vision systems destroyed when fed our standard 230V.
>>949505
Can confirm Siemens S7 is fucking everywhere in Austria
>>949505
Yep, we got a bunch of Siemens S7-300 in school.
I'm from Slovenia, so central Europe.
>>949505
>In Europe, Siemens is almost a standard.
I was pretty sure that was the case, but this is 4chan. If I went and claimed that, I'm sure someone would come along and shit all over me.
>>949484
That wasn't a new panel. The new panels we supplied were much nicer. Unfortunately, I didn't take all that many pictures with my phone when I worked there.
>>949436
>ULN
wut? Never heard of it and Google doesn't give many hints.
Unbreakable Linux Network? How is that related to controls?
>>949505
Are you saying that the vision system was Allen Bradley, or just that it was from the US? If it was an AB logic system then I hope you got the scrap, because it probably just blew a fuse.
>>946158
>Structured Text and/or Sequential Function Charts?
I came to programming PLCs from years of programming C for embedded and doing VHDL work. I gotta say: structured text is pure bliss. Now my workflow for anything tends to be
*begin with small functional units written in structured text
*combine said units in either sequential function charts OR function block diagrams (which I actually prefer over sequential)
>>951411
Makes writing complicated functions really easy.
I've written a lot of code to perform complex calculations inside of PLCs. Being able to process real time data in the PLC and display it on the PC for analysis/collection is amazing. So much less work that writing shit to analyze databases after the fact and customers love seeing the information onscreen.
It's way easier than polling data over Modbus too.
>block diagrams
Fucking love flow charts. Opto22 is amazing with them and 1/4 the price of AB hardware.
I love flow charting so much that it makes it hard to program in Arduino or other linear languages.
>>951436
>program in Arduino
If, not that I ever would, but if I did suggest using an Arduino in an industrial setting I would be fired instantaneously. It's a toy for children.
>>951456
I was referring to personal projects.
I haven't had a use for an Arduino in industrial applications, yet. I won't rule it out. Since I've done a fair amount of R&D work, it makes sense sometimes. I have used 555 timers for prototyping. Not sure why I went that route instead of an Arduino... I could have coded that timer function in much less time than what it took me to prototype the 555 circuit. I was probably killing time.
My old boss (president of the company) actually bought an Arduino starter kit at random because he thought it might be of use for prototyping.
>>951467
Being let go for suggesting something is a bit extreme. I don't see why they couldn't be used for low priority, meanial functions.
>>952707
I think you underestimate how influential and petty the judgmental old boys club is.
Alot of plc circles are dominated by old men who do everything the only way it can possibly be done...even if its totally fucking wrong...
>>952863
This is slowly changing thanks to PACs and the slow crawl away from ladder logic.
I am a contractor at P&G. they scrap out and toss so many god damn PLC and PAC controllers every week it is sad.
unfortunately they wont let us dig through. their scrap contract prevents it.
