I watched pretty much every video in this playlist.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQX9MsRl-1XtBy14K8GoWHQP0KDLDQWQA
It got me thinking about machining.
What are the equipment that he uses called? There's a metal lathe, then there's a turntable of some type.
What are common machines found in machine shops called?
How hard are they to make? How long do they last?
I was thinking that using a lathe to make another lathe would be pretty cool.
If I ever decide to start machining, would it be possible to buy one or two machines and use those to make any other machines I'd need?
Would it be possible to turn a profit creating metal machining equipment to cover the cost of the equipment itself?
>>932987
>What are common machines found in machine shops called?
common machine tools in modern machine shops are mills, lathes, and grinders.
>How hard are they to make? How long do they last?
9/10 difficulty, durability depends on how well its made
>I was thinking that using a lathe to make another lathe would be pretty cool.
good luck with that
>If I ever decide to start machining, would it be possible to buy one or two machines and use those to make any other machines I'd need?
possible yes, but not likely with out a lot of skill, and the ability to make very large, very strong castings.
>Would it be possible to turn a profit creating metal machining equipment to cover the cost of the equipment itself?
can you do it bigger better faster and cheaper than china?
>>932987
>What are the equipment that he uses called? There's a metal lathe, then there's a turntable of some type.
There is 40 videos in that playlist. I aint watching 40 videos for you, Nigerian.
Link to the one video with the turntable if you want to know what it is.
>If I ever decide to start machining, would it be possible to buy one or two machines and use those to make any other machines I'd need?
>Would it be possible to turn a profit creating metal machining equipment to cover the cost of the equipment itself?
Generally, the precision you can get from a machine is always less than that it was built to.
Also to make normal metalworking machines, you need BIG iron castings (not easy to make at home) that have the way surfaces induction-hardened (to prevent them from wearing out and becoming inaccurate really really fast).
The Gingery books are fascinating, but it's a lot of work and (for most of us) considerable expense and the end result is a really crude, really shitty machine.
Overall, even the little China machines would work way better than a carefully-built Gingery lathe or mill.
>>933014
It's in this video.
http://youtu.be/w8SXEwN682Y
He actually said it's a rotary table in the first sentance lol
So... there's no way I can make a quality machine with another machine?
>>933020
>So... there's no way I can make a quality machine with another machine?
You? With out the tools or experience?
No. Not at all.
One of those things that if you have to ask, then no.
>>933023
>without tools
I mean can I use machining tools to replicate themselves.
I don't see why not.
I figured it would have to have been done before, right?
Nobody has a made a guide for this yet?
>>933024
The answer you're looking for is yes. I've been told, and after thinking it through a little it is probably true, that one can make a lathe with a lathe, and it is the only machine shop tool that this is true for. Supposedly one can't make a mill with a mill, but I'm no expert and I'm sure there are guys on here that can prove me wrong.
Notice that I said "one" can make a lathe with a lathe. Just because someone can doesn't mean you can. Not even being funny either. I have some experience with machine tools, but I KNOW I can't do it, not with an acceptable level of accuracy, or safety. Now you've been told this bluntly, and you've been told this politely, by different anons. If you aren't trolling, either spend a bunch of money and try, or do some googling and then try it or not based on what you find, or listen to us and believe us. But honestly, if you decide to try it best of luck to you and godspeed anon.
>>933024
>I figured it would have to have been done before, right?
Yes. They were bootstrapped into existence from inferior tools. By the best machinists of the day. This is the sort of thing where you need a decent understanding of the subject to grasp the scale of the project you're proposing. I suggest taking a machining class at a local tech school.
>>933029
>>933035
I'm not trolling and I know I'm not proficient at all with machines.
I figured that it's probably possible to make an entire machine shop from just two machining tools though, and I assumed since its possible, someone would write a handbook that tells you how to do it.
Yes, yes, and yes, I know I'm not qualified to actually do it.
I'm just curious.
>>933041
>I'm just curious.
Which is why I suggested taking a course. Either it will satisfy your curiosity, or it will give you what you need to know to pursue it further.
>>933047
No job no money no social life.
I'm not ACTUALLY planning to do anything, I'm just keeping my free time busy by researching things and learning stuff.
I'm educating myself here, and I'm trying to give myself as broad an education as possible that covers pretty much everything.
And, I thought it would be COOL AS FUCK if someone wrote a book that taught you how to take two machining tools and make an entire shop with them.
Those machines are expensive as fuck but if you can make your own and sell a few, maybe give a few away to schools or something, that would be neat.
Yes, one day I'm probably going to get BORED AS FUCK and tinker around... but not today.
>>933050
>I thought it would be COOL AS FUCK if someone wrote a book that taught you how to take two machining tools and make an entire shop with them.
Erm, someone did, and it's already been mentioned in this thread.
>>933050
>I'm educating myself here, and I'm trying to give myself as broad an education as possible that covers pretty much everything.
Technically, you're demanding others educate you, then not listening to them when they do.
I am a machinist. Yes, you can make machines with the lathe, but only the lathe can reproduce itself, no other tool in machining history can. If you are wanting to get into the field, GO BUY A QUALITY ENGINE LATHE, even used is fine, but don't make it yourself. I have files on how to make all of the others.. I am currently working on this now, but I've got a baby on the way, so all plans have come to a screeching halt. These plans go from the process from casting with charcoal and sand casting aluminum to making a lathe, shaper, mill, and a drill press then other various tools. I have CAD models of the shaper too. When you download this, you'll need 7zip, so just go download it if you don't already have it, tell me what you think fellow anon. if you have questions, this is an email that I check, but it is a fake name, in the spirit of anonymity .
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6-T88Tye7wibWVocVlmTXk2akU
[email protected]
>>933239
>The "Gingerly books?
"Gingery", but yeah.
There's a website where a guy builds (at least) the furnace and the lathe, and has loads of step-by-step pictures of what he did.
op, i like your enthusiasm towards the subject , keep researching.
you can find all kinds of used tools in your local ads.
you can also sometimes get free shit by going and asking around to some shops/places
you can make a lathe with a lathe, technically
but honestly
it will be shit.
any lathe made with only turned lathe parts will be shit despite who makes it.
you would also have a hard as fuuuuuck time making a lathe on a lathe no matter who you are.
I dont want to sound rude but a 3d printer or something less rigid sounds up your ally in terms of experience and cost
you can make an assload of tools with the big 3, but less machine tools and more tools for machine tools,
i suggest finding a small lathe used, it will be cheap, probably come with tools, and probably not be too fucked. a decent small used lathe should keep you busy for cheap for a while and let you build up skillz
>>933324
Thing is I basically want to have the machines the guy in https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQX9MsRl-1XtBy14K8GoWHQP0KDLDQWQA has.
He's able to machine very large pieces of metal...
That means I could pretty much make a vehicles drivetrain from scratch.
I like that. I also like the gun. Holland and Holland would have charged a fucking fortune for it.
I don't mean "a lathe" made ONLY with a lathe... I meant a lathe made with another lathe as in "the only machining tool you need is a lathe". Casting parts and hand fitting aren't what I was talking about.
What kind of accuracy do metal lathes have?
What makes them accurate?
>>933340
Not a machinist, but I've done a fair bit of machining:
If you're talking about the one shown in his first video, it isn't that large as lathes go, you would struggle to fit a driveshaft on there.
As most other people have mentioned, you would be much better off taking classes or something in machining over buying a lathe and losing an arm the first time you start it up.
In terms of accuracy, it depends almost entirely on the machine and operator; I know fractions of a thou are fairly achievable if you have a decent setup. As a very general rule, the accuracy comes from lathes being large and heavy, decent shanks help too.
>>933354
What are shanks?
Download the Gingery book, he will detail making an entire machine shop from scratch. Make CADD drawings for all the parts. It is your choice to use what you have at hand to make those parts into the shapes that are needed. You cannot substitute anything for Cold-rolled steel without losing a ton of accuracy. Once you have your entire machine shop, you can move on to replacing all of your aluminum castings with other metals, using a combination of the mill, shaper, and lathe. Someone said that you can only make parts less accurate than those with the original parts. This is true to a certain extent, but you can build accuracy as you go along.
>>933239
>>The "Gingery books?
Yes THE Gingery books by the king of DIY David J. Gingery. David J. Gingery wrote a series of books on how to bootstrap the industrial revolution in your backyard. Book 1 shows you how to make a sand casting box/foundry, book 2 shows you how to use the foundry to make a lathe, and so forth and so on until you've made every tool you'd ever want to own.
It takes a lot of work to pull this off and you end up with pretty shitty equipment.
>>how hard are they too make
very. You are better off buying one from china, or buying an old lathe or mill
>>How long do they last?
most machine tools last a long time, like decades.
>>If I ever decide to start machining, would it be possible to buy one or two machines and use those to make any other machines I'd need?
see gingery books above. The answer is yes, but in this day and age it's not worth the effort.
>>Would it be possible to turn a profit creating metal machining equipment to cover the cost of the equipment itself?
It's possible, but FANUC sort of beat you to the punch. They use their CNC machines and robots to make more CNC machines and robots:
http://www.fanuc.co.jp/en/profile/production/factory1.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SREct28lJM
And for cheap, shitty, mills and lathes you really can't beat china.
>>933474
Dude, I don't want to make a shit tool.
It has to be possible to make a precise and quality machining tool by yourself.
>>933488
>It has to be possible to make a precise and quality machining tool by yourself.
This is absolutely true
It just takes hundreds of thousands of dollars in top tier equipment, and decades of experience.
Or you can download a book from the 50s and sand cast your own sloppy and flexy tools out of scrap aluminum.
I dont think you realize that precise and quality machining tools are abundant, but you will pay for them
>>933474
>David J. Gingery wrote a series of books on how to bootstrap the industrial revolution in your backyard. Book 1 shows you how to make a sand casting box/foundry, book 2 shows you how to use the foundry to make a lathe, and so forth and so on until you've made every tool you'd ever want to own.
I want to write a book like this, except for chemistry.
>>933495
It's been done before. See the Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments. Also, how the heck would you boot strap chemistry?
>>933517
>how would you bootstrap chemistry
Sounds like what the technique used to make shake and bake meth is called
>>933324
The reason they say that you need a lathe to make a lathe is that, except for the precise cylinders and screws, you can make the rest fairly easily with castings and hand tools.
Even precise cylindrical pieces aren't that hard to bootstrap, so it's really that you need a screw-cutting lathe to make a screw-cutting lathe.
Hand-scraped surfaces can be *very* precise, and the way you make good surface plates is to start with three roughly-flat surfaces and use each as the surface plate to the other two. If you do this with only two, one can be convex and the other concave, but if you use three, when you're done scraping they'll be as flat as you could make them starting with a perfect surface plate.
Hand-scraped ways are much better than milled or planed ways. Hand scraping is the traditional root from which precision surfaces derive, although there are now more advanced methods that can achieve even flatter surfaces.
I think it's worthwhile to build your own machining equipment from hand tools. You'll learn so much.
But do buy your screws. Hand-making a precision screw is an absolute bitch.
>>933731
>If you do this with only two, one can be convex and the other concave, but if you use three, when you're done scraping they'll be as flat as you could make them starting with a perfect surface plate.
Awesome! I did not know that.
What about smoking to precision fit? You use a candle or lamp to get one of two fitting surfaces covered in soot, then press them together. The parts of the unsmoked piece that get sooty but the majority is clean are high marks and can be sanded down.
How precise is this method?
Is hand fitting more precise than machining?
>>933793
>What about smoking to precision fit?
prussian blue/hi spot blue is a better alternative
>>932994
>good luck with that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGZg45dGXA
This guy used a drill press to do it.
The problem with using cast aluminum for a lathe or mill is that you can't harden the ways of a cast aluminum part, so the sliding surfaces are going to wear out way faster than even plain cast iron would.
,,,,,
And you can't "embed" steel rails or flats into the aluminum very well, because steel and aluminum have different thermal expansion rates. Such a machine will never ever cut accurately, you are wasting your time trying.
If you wanted to build your own machines, I would say that you would be better off skipping the casting method totally and just bolting together steel plates with steel bolts to make what you need. This would only require a band saw (to cut the plates) and a drill press to make the necessary holes. And when it is all assembled, it will all be *steel*, so you wouldn't have thermal expansion issues.
>>932987
So wait... You are all telling op you cant make a better lathe with a shitty lathe..??? Wut. So one day god just came down to 10 people an goes "i now give you a machine that no human would ever be able to recreate! Use this for good and not evil my son..." and that was that. And thats how cheap china lathes are made ..
God the turbo autism in this thread...
>>934238
>So wait... You are all telling op you cant make a better lathe with a shitty lathe..???
Absolutely
We are saying OP is clearly not at a point to do it.
If he were at the point he could, he wouldnt have to make this stupid thread.
The only "turbo autism" is your reading comprehension
>>933999
vibrates more than a washing machine on spin cycle.
No way that's accurate.
>>934264
He gets it pretty accurate in the end considering he did it as a project and considering his methods.
>>934301
>He uses steel in his lathe, if your talking about >>933999
>He casts the body, feet, handles, etc but not the guide rail.
Yea but that's the problem. Aluminum has greater thermal expansion than steel--so if you bolt those two parts together, they're going to flex one way or the other depending on the temperature. There is no way to stop that.
People always DIY these machines using cast aluminum, because it is way easier/cheaper to cast. It melts at 1100 F where steel needs like 2800F. But any method using aluminum won't be accurate--and errors in these machines compound each other... (which is why it's damn difficult to build a better machine using a crappy machine)
Even the China factories won't build the cheap little machines with aluminum beds and steel ways, because they know how poorly it would work.
>>933340
>What makes them accurate?
the operator
but on the machine end,
rigidity and components that fit properly
machine tools gain rigidity from the grain structure they get from casting, the close fit between parts that mate, smooth action from the ways, a spindle that runs true
>>933731
i understand what you are saying, and no one is knocking on hand scraping i respect my roots, but the ways on a lathe are very few compared to the amount of parts that need to be accurate like spindle n shit.
>>934318
taig lathes have been around for years
>>933474
>very. You are better off buying one from china, or buying an old lathe or mill
Unless you're , I don't know, a do it yourselfer?
Let's just call this board 'Don't bother just pay someone else to do it for you'.
What if it's the journey and not the destination that's important?
>>934389
>What if it's the journey and not the destination that's important?
If you are content with spending a ton of time and money just to end up with a borderline useless tool, then have at it.
If its all about the journey, then who cares if the tool you build is an expensive paperweight right?
Instead of learning how to actually machine stuff, you will be wasting time learning how to rig up a tool that you wont be machining much of anything on.
Its clear that this is one of those times where you are being a cheap ass instead of actually trying to learn something.
>>934395
Are you posting on the machining board or the DIY board? Because this is about doing things for the fun not for maximum efficiency. That's like having a pro do your heart surgery.
>>934401
>Because this is about doing things for the fun not for maximum efficiency
This argument just doesnt work.
You arent sewing up a pair of jeans for fun even though you could just buy them cheaper, you are talking about building a precision machine out of bad materials in imprecise ways. Youll end up with a tool shittier than a 300$ harbor freight machine.
Not really my idea of fun.
>>934401
you know what isnt fun? using a shitty lathe that never makes good parts. its really just a constant piss off that kills motivation
the journey for this project will be filled with improper techniques and bad work practices, so the journey and the destination will both be a waste of time and money
you will have a way better time f you buy a lathe and make your own tools for it. that can turn a shit lathe into a decent lathe and you will learn proper way to do things and have a better understanding of machine tools and how to make things right.
http://www.micro-machine-shop.com/
this guy has cheap lathes and makes his own tools for them to make them way better and useful.
>/diy/ i dont know shit, how do i do this?
>buy the proper tool
>b-but muh DIY
Take a machining class at your community college. This is worth more than buying the wrong hardware and wasting your time. You cannot learn enough of what you need to experience via the internet, which is a supplement but not a replacement.
Your formal training can also be used to make some basic tooling for yourself. If you help your instructor and are generally enthusiastic most are fine with that.
Lurk hobby and professional machining forums. Study, then study more, then study more than that.
You cannot make a useful machine with another machine unless you already have a complete machine shop to make it with. That's a common noob error. Forget it. Forget it. Forget it.
The other error many noobs make is wanting an affordable useful new lathe or mill. Forget it, forget it, forget it.
While you learn how to machine in a formal environment, which also includes print reading and basic CAD, you can study what used industrial machine tools are available within your state and those nearby. You should be able to dedicate a bay the size of a garage or large basement to your workshop, or if you want a quick shop a shipping container works nicely. (I have two High Cubes joined for the purpose.)
You can gradually accumulate a used lathe and milling machine and tooling. I lurked Craigslist and online auction sites for a couple of years before finding a deal I liked. YMMV. I got a round ram Bridgeport with a bunch of tooling for a thousand bucks, and a decent 14" older Taiwanese lathe with tooling, six-jaw and four jaw chucks, and faceplate along with a phase converter for two grand.
My bro scored a large Bradford Metal Master lathe weighing about 6000lbs for $375 because scrap was low, but it was completely serviceable and still accurate! You can move them without a rigger if you have a car trailer and some ingenuity. Google "moving a Bridgeport" for milling machine dollies. You can make the dollies you need with basic hand and power tools as I did.
I totally get the /diy/ ethos but for some things it's a dead end. You don't try to build a CPU fab at home either.
Machine tools are wonderful, but like any serious hobby (which can complement any gearhead business you get into, I'm a mechanic) it takes time, determination, research, and dedicating enough money to do it reasonably right. There is NO "poorfag" machine shop solution unless you luck out in the US Rust Belt and score old machine tools for scrap prices. The nice thing about old machine tools is they can last a century and still turn out quality work. My machinistbro has two American Pacemaker lathes of WWII vintage that make money every week.
A good sequence is learn while saving money, buy a mill or lathe, tool it up, make stuff, and hunt the complementary lathe or mill so you have both. Once you have both you can do many useful things, and they don't depreciate.
Lurk the Practical Machinist forums for much education.
Many people spend a few grand on a car or truck or motorcycle. That money can get you machine tools which facilitate many toys over the rest of your life.
>>934792
>You don't try to build a CPU fab at home either.
Real men own fabs.
